UKC

I was wondering if I could get some help from any master navigators out there....

I would say my navigation is up to a high standard however there is one factor that I need to work on, contours.

I would like to know if anyone has any particular methods or exercises that helps with mastering them?

I'm in the hills training twice a month and I have around 30 - 40 days logged so I am no beginner.

Any (constructive) help would be appreciated !!

In reply to Pommie574:

The thing I've always found helpful is basically just walking around with the map out looking at contours and comparing them to what you see, and particularly doing this in places where you might not normally look at the contours because you've got loads of other features to work off.

In other words, don't wait until you're out on a trackless open moor to start thinking about contours - think about them when you're following a path across a river next to a wall near a building and so you know exactly where you are and how the map relates to what you're looking at.

This also means more opportunities to practice since you can reasonably do this more or less anywhere outside of the fens...

In reply to Pommie574:

In what way are the contours catching you out? Are you taking bearings between points but discovering en route that the terrain you are crossing isn't letting you do so (like, cliffs or outcrops in the way, for example?)

Contour interpretation is something that seems (for me at least) to click together quickly with practice - that is, going out, looking at slopes and landform and seeing how they are represented on the map. One thing you should notice doing this is how skewed your perspective can become, and also how little you can really see, simply by being on the ground. Hope that helps?

In reply to kwoods:

Thanks for the replies. Good points as well.

The large obvious features and contours are fine but it's the open moorland that's catching me out.

In low visibility I have been trying to use 'knolls' as reference points but struggle with that.

Also when the ground opens out into a flattish areas between peaks, differentiating the particular contours and relating it to the ground

In reply to Pommie574:

You may be trying too hard.

You mentioned knolls. In hills these are often marked depending on where the exact contour line follows. It is quite possible that a small knoll is marked on the map (one that is bisected by one contour line) but a larger one which falls between the contour lines wont be.

On flatter moorland ground, say between two peaks then you've a similar problem. As on the 1;25;000 maps contours are only marked every 10 meters and you'll not get very many useful clues as to many features on the land unless they clearly cross one or more of the contour levels. So it is entirely possible that on an otherwise flattish bit of adjacent moorlands full of tiny drumlins etc., that one area full of them won't be shown on the map contours because non of them bisect a contour line whereas on an adjacent bit of land they may all be shown because they just all happen to bisect a contour line.

Try imagining how certain shaped objects would appear on the map if they were marked by contour lines in differing places on the feature. A small perfectly shaped knoll 22 meters in hight with one 10 meter contour just below the 'summit' and the other at the base, would show up as two circular rings and be quite obvious. But if it was crossed by only one half way up it would show up with only the one ring even though it is of similar hight.

One trick to help you with contours is to map read using only the contours. I used to be able to obtain maps with out any features on it other than contours.

(I don't know whether it is possible to suppress colours excepting the contours, when copying & printing maps digitally on a PC is possible now)

In reply to Pommie574:
Go out looking for ring contours. Small almost circular contours that will indicate small depressions or humps in the ground.

The thing to remember is that a house is less than 10m high to the ridge so on a 1:25,000 map you're still looking for significant height difference.

In reply to Dave Perry:


That's true on OS maps. Harvey maps will often show additional dotted contours ("form lines") between the main ones to show exactly this sort of feature.

In reply to Pommie574:

Not a master navigator, but have been out in the hills a fair bit. All the above comments are truly relevant. I don't think that it is so much specific techniques for featureless ground. Rather, don't put yourself in a situation where you can't think rationally and be able to use standard nav techniques.

Relatively featureless ground is more likely to catch you out. So, avoid it when possible. Alter your route.
If you can't, before setting out, look at the map and search out the areas of such ground on or near your proposed route and create a mental image of what you would encounter if you strayed off route. Think about what techniques you would have to use to help if you become mislaid.

When you're learning, try and avoid putting yourself in such terrain when you can't attend properly to all the navigation techniques which will help you out of there- You don't want to find yourself on such ground when you're tired or otherwise impaired in capacity and judgement. Be alert to this scenario in route planning. Although you may get away with a less than diligent approach to nav on steeper ground -paradoxically, the flatter ground is where people like myself tend to switch off. I can be moving quickly and efficiently over steep and complex terrain. When the ground conditions become gentler, I have a tendency to take a breather, and notch down the mental concentration.

When this happens, it can seem perverse to have to break out of this flow to take stock of where I am just as things get easier. It seems more efficient to keep moving. If you're physically fit, and time constraints are few, doing this might even be the most fun.

In reply to Pommie574:

A stream bed on the map is obvious (even without the blue line) due to the way the contours form a series of "U"s. Try looking for similar but shallower features on the map, and see how they relate to the ground - you'll often find an apparently featureless map indicates depressions/spurs quite clearly if you look hard enough.

Also worth looking at the fall line - straight down hill. There will usually be one, even in relatively flat areas. On the map, this corresponds to parallel contours, which can often be used to find locate your position in flattish but meandering terrain.

It's a huge subject, best learned by doing! If you haven't already, then try orienteering, there are regular events in most parts of the country (though not so many over the summer), and almost all are suitable for beginners.

Or try a course. There are loads of people providing them, nav4.co.uk is a particularly good one.

In reply to Pommie574:



I think the same approach applies, but for getting used to visualizing the direction and steepness of the slope you're going to be walking over and how it changes rather than playing "spot the steep sided valley". What do the contours look like for a barely perceptible slope vs something more significant? How big is that slight dip in the ground in real life? And again, you can practice this stuff while you're following a nice obvious path through fields just as well as when you've actually got no other features to work with.

In reply to Pommie574:

I teach a lot of nav for work.

Contours are the key feature to understand on a map.
Re entrants, spurs etc.

For initial recognition I suggest people imagine the tide rising up to a certain point and imagining where the tide line would be.

You can get contour only maps which can be good practice.

Get out lots!

In reply to Pommie574:
Start orienteering as your mid week training, either club events and / or permanent courses.

http://www.aire.org.uk/events/eventslist/eventslist_v2.asp

Every event will have courses at all levels and distances, with people only too willing to help set you off on your first course.

Learning to navigate is all about visualisation, converting what you see on paper to what you expect to see on the ground, and vice versa. The more time you spend doing this, on different terrain, different scales etc.. will speed up this process.

Jezb...s advice above is good, but I suspect we have a similar background so it's not surprising. If you struggle with the tide analogy, go sit by a tarn / llyn / loch, Bochllwydd or Stickle Tarn are quite good for this, look at the shore line, look at the contours, now follow (walking) the next 10,20, 50m contour up hill from the water right around the whole lake, see how it sends you into re-entrants, out onto spurs... it's not a race though. Take your time, learn to see the shape on the ground and the map. If you loose your precise location the shape of the water will help you get back on track. Add on top of this the basics of always orientating the map to the ground etc.. you be able to go anywhere in any cloud level in no time at all. Mileage is key though.

If you are super keen a home, draw a straight line across a heavily contoured area of your map, now try to draw a profile of that line, to scale if you like, or just as accurately as possible without resorting to graph paper. It helps add to the visualisation of ups and down.
https://www.teachengineering.org/collection/cub_/lessons/cub_images/cub_nav...

In reply to Pommie574: I was taught navigation (actually map-reading) in the scouts many years ago. We essentially looked for conventional signs to navigate by. Years later I started preparation for my ML. At first I looked at a map and hardly saw the contours. As I became more practised and by the time of my assessment, when I looked at a map, I only saw contours and had to refocus to see other features on the map. I was always intrigued by this "phenomenom". Unfortunately through lack of need for micronavigation, I have reverted back to having to focus on seeing the contours. I guess practice is needed to develop the skill and to deliberately use the skill when out , even when not at the time necessary.

In reply to Pommie574:

Before you go out on your walk, describe it to a friend or if you're alone write it down. Then compare your description with the actual ground. As others have said orienteering/mountain marathons are great practice.

In reply to Pommie574:

Thanks for all the advice and ideas, its been a great help. I have taken notes and i am going to try these new techniques next week.

In reply to Pommie574:

Either use the 1:50K enlarged to 1:25K since it will not have much clutter.
Or scan in part of 1:25K into Photoshop or similar, use the option to select everything which has the contour colour (contours plus some other features) copy and then pasted back a separate layer which you darken by changing the colour or use Brightness/Contrast then print out. Which will have all the contours standing out.

Then just lots of practise as you get use to what the ground looks like on paper and vice versa.

Really is practise makes perfect.