UKC

I know this is unconventional. Is it an insane idea?

Opinions please....

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

There's really not much to opine about - if it's not rated as single then you are taking a serious risk... if you fall...

But it's only a risk and climbing is full of those, it's 'possible' if you do fall it might save your life... might.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

These sorts of decisions are really decisions you have to make yourself. As far as I can see, the main issue with using a 7.3mm rope as a single is that you leave yourself incredibly vulnerable to getting the rope cut by a sharp edge. If you're incredibly diligent about trying to avoid this, it's maybe an acceptable idea, but sometimes these things are outside of your control.

It all depends on your take on the risks involved. When you have two skinny ropes you've got redundancy, 'cos there are two. If you use a conventional ~10mm single then you've got a much more robust rope so you can afford to do away with that redundancy.

I'm sure others will be along with contrasting opinions etc. etc. but ultimately you've got to make the decision based on your acceptable margins of risk.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

In a word - do not do it.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

It depends on what you are planning on climbing... if it was mainly snowy/icey and the chance of a fall was remote then I probably would. Especially if the rope was brand new. If it was a steep rock route at (or close to) my limit then I'd be far less keen.

I've used a 8mm rope as a single on long alpine routes without issue.

The other day I was thinking about doing all the routes in Classic Rock and biking in between them. If I was going to do that then I would probably take something like 35m of 7.3m rope.

Up to you though really but a bit more info would be helpful, if you want a useful answer...

Tom

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Thing I've never got; if you're using a pair of halves and alternating gear placements, if you fall off, only one rope will catch you (unless you have a baby bouncer). I know that having two ropes gives you a backup, but how many times has anyone seen the rope fail as opposed to the gear pull or rock fail? In theory you only have one rope in play alot of the time anyway, so using only one super skinny isn't as death on a stick as everyone makes out.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

are you talking about a twin or a half rope?

what do you intend doing with it, climbing at your limit or crossing a glacier?

In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Bear in mind the 7.3mm halves are for winter / ice, not rock or summer alpine - I suspect they would get dangerously trashed rather quickly. Might be ok on an Alpine summer snow plod though? Your call...

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

I would, depending on the context.

Something long and steady, yes. Master's Edge, probably not...

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

We guided the south face of Nanda Kot (Kumaon, India) on 100m single 7mm ropes before Martin Moran (the boss) got nervous and banned it. Mind you, we never managed to do 100m before having to stop for a rest, in which case you might as well belay. So it's up to you.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

I asked an instructor a similar question many years ago. He was soloing along side on a multi pitch route with a half rope on his back, with the intention of roping up with us and using it as a single if there were any tricky bits. When I questioned him about the safety of using a rope outside it's rating and he said that for the situation it was ok, reasoning that he was very unlikely to fall and that if he did it would be much safer than if he was soloing!

In reply to your specific question, I am sure 7.3mm might be ideal for some in certain situations, but not I expect for you at the moment.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Like many, I've led in winter on a single half rope (8mm) but I've happily led on an 8.5mm on rock also. We each have to make our own decisions at times and this is one you need to make for yourself.

In reply to The Ice Doctor: bully's are rated as a half as well as a twin. I've used one of mine for moving together on snow, but didn't expect to fall.
They won't last long and they'll stretch. Like crazy.

Context is everything.

In reply to dr_botnik:

If you take a big fall it will be more difficult to catch the fall on one strand, if there is gear placed regularly on both strands the force will be spread between both strands making it easier to stop the fall (I've caught a few falls on a single strand of 8mm with no problems so don't think this is a big issue). In certain cases I would be happy climbing single pitch rock routes on a single strand of a half rope (something bold and hard with 1 piece of gear for instance). I would not use a single strand of a half rope on anything where a lead fall could result in it getting dragged along a sharp edge or where a factor 2 fall is possible as the rope is not designed to deal with that type of fall on a single strand.
Like everything else in climbing you have a number of accepted safe ways to do something which can be thought of as best practice, however in some specific situations a deviation from best practice can make the process safer or increase the chances of success, personally I would not choose to use such a thin half rope for anything other than its normal use.

In reply to abseil:


Shouldn't that be 'in four words'.. . .

In reply to Doghouse:


Thanks but errrr it was tongue in cheek... unless the word was "not".....

In reply to abseil:

No one else has mentioned it, but your shape and size is also highly relevant. I used to climb with a guy who was 5'4" tall and weighed about 8 stone, he was of the view that an 8mm rope was a single for him! If you're 14 stone then it's a different matter! I agree with all the points mentioned about sharp rock edges etc and wouldn't personally use my Beal gully as a single rope on rock, unless there was no alternative.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Also bear in mind that you and your partner will need special belay devices as 7.3mm is too thin for normal belay devices. I've only ever seen one 7.3mm rope in the shops by the way. Says something about how much demand there is for them!

In reply to alexm198:


And with your climbing partner. I wouldn't be impressed if a mate agreed to bring the ropes and turned up with one 7.3mm without discussing it beforehand.

In reply to Misha:

Or know how to use a friction hitch without kinking the rope like crazy (i.e. using it correctly) as friction hitches have the most friction out of all the belay methods...

In reply to alexm198:


I took a fall on Carn Etchachan this winter while climbing on 2 half ropes (Mammut Phoenix 8mm). The Cairngorm granite stripped the sheath from one of the ropes leaving me dangling on one intact rope and a few strands of nylon. For me, unless you're on easy ground or a snow ridge, the safety margin for a single half rope is far to small.

In reply to planetmarshall:

Sorry did the rope fail or was it just!!! the sheath

In reply to dr_botnik:


Maybe not if you were cragging one evening as either your one rope will be fine or you'll hit the ground pretty quickly but then what justification is there for using one half when the walk in is short? The times people consider using a half on it's own are when weight matters and they don't expect to fall off, big apline routes, winter climbs in which case if you do fall it's probably going to be a long one and I think the chances of a cut rope are higher - rough rock, potentially moving together, spaced gear, long falls etc.

It's probably a decision based on the route as much as anything, if you're using it for a couple of pitches on a massive route then it's going to sway your justification. If you're using it continuously then perhaps either soloing (if you don't expect to fall) or taking a thicker rope (if you think you might) would be more prudent. Skinny singles don't exactly weigh a ton these days.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Depends how confident you are, i wouldn't even say it matters what terrain whether it be a ice, rock, or mixed route providing you are confident on the terrain. It's probably just a bit safer than simul climbing so treat it as such.