UKC

Is it possible to compare scrambling and climbing grades? I've never done a scrambling route above a grade 1, but consider a vdiff climb to be a scramble and wouldn't bother getting ropes out for that. Is there a cross over, or can I assume that anything graded as a scramble will be easier than a vdiff!?!

In reply to ScottTalbot:

They're not always directly comparable.
Some grade 3 scrambles are also Mod / Diff climbs, but other scrambles, even g2, can have short steps / single moves at the equivalent of VDiff or more, but often avoidable or escapable.

In reply to ScottTalbot:

Even using Andrew Dempster's Scottish scrambling guide (which extends the grade range to 5) I've never done a scramble that's as hard as a VDiff climb.

In reply to ScottTalbot:

Scrambling is scrambling and climbing is climbing. Scrambling can't broach a Vdiff technically. Exposure wise maybe.

In reply to ScottTalbot:

in theory the scrambling grades precede the climbing grades, so you get:

Grade 1
grade 2
grade 3 (scramble)
mod (climb)
diff
vdiff
etc

scrambles may be just as exposed but should be technically easier than any graded climb. in theory at least...

In reply to Webster:

That's how (American) YDS grading system works as well.

In reply to ScottTalbot:

it is possible for some scrambles to a have a single exposed move of climbing like difficulty that is far harder than the rest of the route, like the step up on broad stand, but then they'd generally be graded 3 or 3S and the move would be mentioned.

In reply to ScottTalbot:

The weather's a factor too - I was recently up the Howitzer on Helm Crag which seems to be regarded as a grade 1 or grade 2 scramble, but it had been raining for about 15 hours and I was very glad to be on the end of my pal Eddie's rope.

In reply to ScottTalbot:

Thanks everyone. Pretty much what I imagined really, but thought I'd get some more experienced input, as I know climbing grades can very a bit depending on who has set the grade... By the same thinking, I thought maybe the scrambling grades would sometimes be deceiving, for instance if the person that decided it was only a grade 3 scramble was 7ft tall and his easy step up was a bit more of a challenge for someone shorter.

In reply to Webster:


That's not aways the case.
The Aonach Eagach is a Grade 2 Scramble and an Easy Rock Climb
Curved Ridge is a Grade 3 Scramble and a Moderate Rock Climb
Tower Ridge is often given Grade 3(S) and is a Diff Rock Climb.

I'd say there is an overlap rather than that they precede the climbing grades.

Scrambling vs climbing is very subjective and what the individual finds to be a scramble is quite personal. Even routes of the same technical Grade can feel quite different. I find Tower Ridge to be a great scramble but Great Ridge on Garbh Bheinn feels more like a climb to me (steeper and more sustained exposure). Both are Diff.

In reply to ScottTalbot:

In my experience, there is definately an overlap with grade 2 maybe somewhere between Mod and Diff and 3 varying anywhere from Diff to Vdiff.

The difference is usually the sustainedness of the difficulties. Scrambles tend to have isolated moves at a grade, sometimes avoidable whereas climbs (at least decent ones) are more sustained at the technical grade.

In reply to ScottTalbot:

Scrambles can also be far more likely to kill you if you fall off. A route might be VDiff because its super-easy but has no gear, or quite tricky but well-protected. A scramble can have a thousand-foot drop below you on either side; a VDiff might only be 20 foot long with a fall with a good landing. They are quite different...

In reply to ScottTalbot:

I'm a very seasoned scrambler and can tell you I have never encountered an unavoidable move of V Diff technicality on a scramble anywhere. There is a bit of overlap between certain Grade 3 scrambles and Moderate (or maybe bottom end Diff) grade rock climbing but that's as far as it goes. Some scrambles can be very exposed in places but they are all easier than V Diff climbs.

In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:

+1 Agreed

In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:

I agree, but perhaps what is meant is that some of the moves on a VDiff will not be harder than those encountered on a grade 3 scramble (although the crux definitely will be tougher).

In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:

Sometimes the hard moves on a scramble are inescapable e.g. the mantleshelf move on the Craig Lloer spur,commiting.irreversible,and super exposed. Graded at 2/3 great value one of the few scrambles I have needed to put a runner in. The move wouldnt be sniffed at on a v.diff. Broad Stand has been mentioned,ropes needed if its greasy - worth Diff as the holds over the top are quite small and again its committing and inescapable.

In reply to Removed Userjess13:

Yes you do get moves or short sections like that on many scrambles, there are others I can think too of like the crux groove on the Dolmen Ridge when damp, the slabby corner on Curved Ridge, a tricky move low down on the Grade 3 on Harrison Stickle and the Glaciated Slab on Intake Ridge (admittedly avoidable but you wouldn't want to avoid it). To be truthful though I wouldn't personally consider any of them to be of V Diff technicality. In fairness I've not done Broad Stand, never thought it was worth the three hour walk in for 40 metres of scrambling.