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Ey up, wanting to get 10 sports quickdraws so i dont have to borrow my friends when i go out and im just after any recommendations?
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In reply to littlejon86:
I got my last ones from barrabes.com or bergfreunde.de - can't remember which.
I got my last ones from barrabes.com or bergfreunde.de - can't remember which.
In reply to BAdhoc:
They did yesterday, I can't see them any more.
> Outside currently have 5 wild country draws for £29
They did yesterday, I can't see them any more.
In reply to littlejon86:
30 quid for five from Decathlon http://www.decathlon.co.uk/rocky-x5-quickdraws-pack-id_8282203.html look just the thing for sport climbing. Or 50 euros from Telemark Pyrenees for nice Camp ones http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/camporbitexpressks5packcoloured-p-37118... both seem very fair prices.
30 quid for five from Decathlon http://www.decathlon.co.uk/rocky-x5-quickdraws-pack-id_8282203.html look just the thing for sport climbing. Or 50 euros from Telemark Pyrenees for nice Camp ones http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/camporbitexpressks5packcoloured-p-37118... both seem very fair prices.
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In reply to machine:
Do you have any real evidence for that? Besides anything else, the guy wants clips specifically for sport climbing (which of course DMM do - Shadows being my absolute favourite) so suggesting he gets something like Phantoms is clearly silly. DMM krabs are great, but like any firm, some of their designs are less good for certain uses and they have recalls just like most other companies do once in while. Some of the special deals suggested in thread will almost certainly be a better choice for the OP than some DMM trad krabs as an example.
> Buy Cheap Buy twice.
Do you have any real evidence for that? Besides anything else, the guy wants clips specifically for sport climbing (which of course DMM do - Shadows being my absolute favourite) so suggesting he gets something like Phantoms is clearly silly. DMM krabs are great, but like any firm, some of their designs are less good for certain uses and they have recalls just like most other companies do once in while. Some of the special deals suggested in thread will almost certainly be a better choice for the OP than some DMM trad krabs as an example.
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In reply to littlejon86:
http://www.bergfreunde.de/wild-country-wild-wire-quickdraw-express-set/
These come in at £53ish a set.
They were cheaper!
Steve
http://www.bergfreunde.de/wild-country-wild-wire-quickdraw-express-set/
These come in at £53ish a set.
They were cheaper!
Steve
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In reply to TobyA:
I stand corrected. I should have said anything from the DMM Sport climbing range. Just as well you corrected me there as some one may have taken my advice even more literally than yourself and maybe used a rack comprised of Boa's and 240 slings.
I stand corrected. I should have said anything from the DMM Sport climbing range. Just as well you corrected me there as some one may have taken my advice even more literally than yourself and maybe used a rack comprised of Boa's and 240 slings.
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In reply to machine:
Really, I was actually more interested in your "buy cheap, buy twice" line and wondered what you've broken or worn out to come to that conclusion.
Really, I was actually more interested in your "buy cheap, buy twice" line and wondered what you've broken or worn out to come to that conclusion.
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In reply to TobyA:
In climbing I have learned that its the little extra things you do that make the difference between success and failure. Its the same with kit. Some brands are more expensive than others for a reason. It may be a better design stronger and safer or just lasts longer than cheaper brands. When I first started climbing I purchased cheap kit which was ok but as soon as I started to step up in grades and exploring harsher environments I found the kit I had didn't quite cut the mustard so to speak. I found it was heavy or awkward to handle or had little flaws that made climbing slightly more exciting than it should have been. Safety was also a facture that I didn't take in to account at the beginning. The main features on crabs for me being open gate strength, smooth shrouded nose, rope bearing radius and weight (you have a lot of crabs on your trad rack so heavy crabs equals a heavy rack equals fast fatigue). Needless to say I ended up pretty much replacing all of my cheap kit, Hard wear and clothing with premium kit and have never looked back. There is nothing wrong with getting good kit cheap but in my profession as a buyer we have a saying "Caveat emptor "Let the buyer beware".
In climbing I have learned that its the little extra things you do that make the difference between success and failure. Its the same with kit. Some brands are more expensive than others for a reason. It may be a better design stronger and safer or just lasts longer than cheaper brands. When I first started climbing I purchased cheap kit which was ok but as soon as I started to step up in grades and exploring harsher environments I found the kit I had didn't quite cut the mustard so to speak. I found it was heavy or awkward to handle or had little flaws that made climbing slightly more exciting than it should have been. Safety was also a facture that I didn't take in to account at the beginning. The main features on crabs for me being open gate strength, smooth shrouded nose, rope bearing radius and weight (you have a lot of crabs on your trad rack so heavy crabs equals a heavy rack equals fast fatigue). Needless to say I ended up pretty much replacing all of my cheap kit, Hard wear and clothing with premium kit and have never looked back. There is nothing wrong with getting good kit cheap but in my profession as a buyer we have a saying "Caveat emptor "Let the buyer beware".
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In reply to machine:
Could be, but I've been using Camp quickdraws for the past ten years and I can't fault them. They're not the lightest on the market, but it doesn't really matter for sport routes.
Could be, but I've been using Camp quickdraws for the past ten years and I can't fault them. They're not the lightest on the market, but it doesn't really matter for sport routes.
In reply to TobyA:
I was climbing sport on Phantoms recently. Worked fine. Apart from being half the weight of my mates set I didn't notice a difference in usability.
> Do you have any real evidence for that? Besides anything else, the guy wants clips specifically for sport climbing (which of course DMM do - Shadows being my absolute favourite) so suggesting he gets something like Phantoms is clearly silly. DMM krabs are great, but like any firm, some of their designs are less good for certain uses and they have recalls just like most other companies do once in while. Some of the special deals suggested in thread will almost certainly be a better choice for the OP than some DMM trad krabs as an example.
I was climbing sport on Phantoms recently. Worked fine. Apart from being half the weight of my mates set I didn't notice a difference in usability.
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:
Phantoms are a lightweight quickdraw designed for trad. Ok you can use them on sport routes but they arnt ideally suited. The reason being is that the steel hangers are quite unforgiving on your crabs and after repeated falls you will see little chips and bits of abrasion on the contact point on the inside of the crab which in time will take its toll and weaken/ destroy your lovely lightweight beautifully crafted Phantoms. Also be careful that you don't accidently clip your rope into the crab that was attached to the hanger (which can easily be done in desperate situations as the crabs on each end of your Phantoms are quite similar) these little chips can be quite sharp and can put wear onto your rope. Quickdraws designed for sport climbing are a bit heavier because they are tougher and are reinforced at the contact points on both the hanger and rope load bearing areas so are able to withstand a lot more falls on hangers and are a bit kinder to your rope. They also generally have a straight gate and a bent gate to aid ease of clipping and to help prevent clipping the rope to the hanger end of the quickdraw.
Phantoms are a lightweight quickdraw designed for trad. Ok you can use them on sport routes but they arnt ideally suited. The reason being is that the steel hangers are quite unforgiving on your crabs and after repeated falls you will see little chips and bits of abrasion on the contact point on the inside of the crab which in time will take its toll and weaken/ destroy your lovely lightweight beautifully crafted Phantoms. Also be careful that you don't accidently clip your rope into the crab that was attached to the hanger (which can easily be done in desperate situations as the crabs on each end of your Phantoms are quite similar) these little chips can be quite sharp and can put wear onto your rope. Quickdraws designed for sport climbing are a bit heavier because they are tougher and are reinforced at the contact points on both the hanger and rope load bearing areas so are able to withstand a lot more falls on hangers and are a bit kinder to your rope. They also generally have a straight gate and a bent gate to aid ease of clipping and to help prevent clipping the rope to the hanger end of the quickdraw.
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:
Fair enough, of course you can use any krabs - I even used Edelrid 19Gs for sport climbing for some time when testing them vimeo.com/69471594 but there are all sorts of reasons why they aren't as good as bigger, heavier, beefier krabs. But for most people, including maybe the OP, sport climbing normally does involve sooner or later falling off, dogging routes, redpointing etc etc etc all of which wears krabs way more than trad climbing generally does. I guessed that was what the OP means by "sports quickdraws".
> I wasn't 'working routes' or taking falls.
Fair enough, of course you can use any krabs - I even used Edelrid 19Gs for sport climbing for some time when testing them vimeo.com/69471594 but there are all sorts of reasons why they aren't as good as bigger, heavier, beefier krabs. But for most people, including maybe the OP, sport climbing normally does involve sooner or later falling off, dogging routes, redpointing etc etc etc all of which wears krabs way more than trad climbing generally does. I guessed that was what the OP means by "sports quickdraws".
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In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:
If you are not falling off or working routes then presumably you were "convenience climbing" as opposed to "sports climbing".
If you are not falling off or working routes then presumably you were "convenience climbing" as opposed to "sports climbing".
When I started sport climbing (as in projecting routes over an extended period with lots of falling), I soon found that equipping, hauling up and down, and stripping routes is often more tiring than just climbing them. Once I replaced all my trad quicks with DMM Alphas and Petzl Spirits this got less onerous (the new WC sport quicks look very good too). I'd recommend figuring out what features you require (will you be projecting or onsighting?) and then looking for the cheapest means of fulfilling that need. If you are going to be working steep routes over multiple tie-ons / sessions (or stripping routes that traverse) I personally would only buy quicks with non-snag noses and chunky tapes - no matter how cheap anything else was.
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In reply to Brown:
I was climbing in Italy. We were alternating between trad and bolted climbing. Baggage allowance precluded bringing dedicated bolt clipping kit.
> If you are not falling off or working routes then presumably you were "convenience climbing" as opposed to "sports climbing".
I was climbing in Italy. We were alternating between trad and bolted climbing. Baggage allowance precluded bringing dedicated bolt clipping kit.
In reply to TobyA:
My statement that Phantoms can perform well in a bolt environment was not meant to suggest that they were superior for the purpose. I've always preferred to on-sight climbs whether bolted or trad so sitting on the draws or taking multiple pings on to them is a relative rarity.
> Fair enough, of course you can use any krabs - I even used Edelrid 19Gs for sport climbing for some time when testing them vimeo.com/69471594 but there are all sorts of reasons why they aren't as good as bigger, heavier, beefier krabs. But for most people, including maybe the OP, sport climbing normally does involve sooner or later falling off, dogging routes, redpointing etc etc etc all of which wears krabs way more than trad climbing generally does. I guessed that was what the OP means by "sports quickdraws".
My statement that Phantoms can perform well in a bolt environment was not meant to suggest that they were superior for the purpose. I've always preferred to on-sight climbs whether bolted or trad so sitting on the draws or taking multiple pings on to them is a relative rarity.
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In reply to TobyA:
Which is indeed why you want thick nylon dogbones (eg. Petzl Spirits are great, as are pretty much all similar wider ones). Nice to hang from and do moves in over to get up and workout stuff & sequence later.
Same goes for biners. You want them to be easy and smooth to clip, solid enough to take abuse of falling into bolts (especially bolt hangers will wear out the bolt end quite soon) and also rope wear on the rope end.
> But for most people, including maybe the OP, sport climbing normally does involve sooner or later falling off, dogging routes, redpointing etc etc etc.
Which is indeed why you want thick nylon dogbones (eg. Petzl Spirits are great, as are pretty much all similar wider ones). Nice to hang from and do moves in over to get up and workout stuff & sequence later.
Same goes for biners. You want them to be easy and smooth to clip, solid enough to take abuse of falling into bolts (especially bolt hangers will wear out the bolt end quite soon) and also rope wear on the rope end.
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:
As do many others. But it really ain't sport climbing... it's simple "leisure" climbing within your limits. Sport climbing is all about getting the maximum effort out form your self. So pushing the limits what you think is possible. What this means, is that when you're at the anchor, you can barely clip it. If that ain't the case, then you've been climbing a slab or well within your limits.
I prefer the slabs, as my stamina is pretty much shot after 3 months of hiatus from climbing due to injury.
> I've always preferred to on-sight climbs whether bolted or trad so sitting on the draws or taking multiple pings on to them is a relative rarity.
As do many others. But it really ain't sport climbing... it's simple "leisure" climbing within your limits. Sport climbing is all about getting the maximum effort out form your self. So pushing the limits what you think is possible. What this means, is that when you're at the anchor, you can barely clip it. If that ain't the case, then you've been climbing a slab or well within your limits.
I prefer the slabs, as my stamina is pretty much shot after 3 months of hiatus from climbing due to injury.
In reply to HeMa:
Well that's your definition. So bouldering on a rope then? If you're not climbing on-sight then you aren't climbing (my definition) I push myself to my limits and over but aiming to on-sight. Anything else is failure or second best.
> As do many others. But it really ain't sport climbing... it's simple "leisure" climbing within your limits. Sport climbing is all about getting the maximum effort out form your self. So pushing the limits what you think is possible. What this means, is that when you're at the anchor, you can barely clip it. If that ain't the case, then you've been climbing a slab or well within your limits.
Well that's your definition. So bouldering on a rope then? If you're not climbing on-sight then you aren't climbing (my definition) I push myself to my limits and over but aiming to on-sight. Anything else is failure or second best.
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:
Nah, it's the common definition of sport climbing.
After all, even the grading on sport climbs assumes work, after all it is for the easiest sequence.
What you're talkin' about is actually just *climbing*, which I value more than sport climbing. But each to their own.
> Well that's your definition.
Nah, it's the common definition of sport climbing.
After all, even the grading on sport climbs assumes work, after all it is for the easiest sequence.
What you're talkin' about is actually just *climbing*, which I value more than sport climbing. But each to their own.
In reply to HeMa:
I know that's a view shared by some people, but the majority of people I know who climb on bolts (even ones who pretty much exclusively climb on bolts), just see it as sport climbing, even if they like to bumble up routes well within their physical limit.
If somebody said to you they were going on a sport climbing trip to Spain, you'd assume bolted climbing, would you really be surprised if they weren't climbing at maximum effort?
By your definition of sport climbing, I'm not sure I've ever been sport climbing.
> Sport climbing is all about getting the maximum effort out form your self
I know that's a view shared by some people, but the majority of people I know who climb on bolts (even ones who pretty much exclusively climb on bolts), just see it as sport climbing, even if they like to bumble up routes well within their physical limit.
If somebody said to you they were going on a sport climbing trip to Spain, you'd assume bolted climbing, would you really be surprised if they weren't climbing at maximum effort?
By your definition of sport climbing, I'm not sure I've ever been sport climbing.
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
+1
> I know that's a view shared by some people, but the majority of people I know who climb on bolts (even ones who pretty much exclusively climb on bolts), just see it as sport climbing, even if they like to bumble up routes well within their physical limit.
> If somebody said to you they were going on a sport climbing trip to Spain, you'd assume bolted climbing, would you really be surprised if they weren't climbing at maximum effort?
> By your definition of sport climbing, I'm not sure I've ever been sport climbing.
+1
In reply to HeMa:
I think we are in agreement. It's just the only 'sports climbing' I do is at the wall
> Nah, it's the common definition of sport climbing.
> After all, even the grading on sport climbs assumes work, after all it is for the easiest sequence.
> What you're talkin' about is actually just *climbing*, which I value more than sport climbing. But each to their own.
I think we are in agreement. It's just the only 'sports climbing' I do is at the wall
In reply to littlejon86:
Camp Orbit. They are like the petzl ones but half the price. I have mine for 5 years now and they are brilliant for sport climbing. I ugraded mine with some thicker tapes from edilrid.
Camp Orbit. They are like the petzl ones but half the price. I have mine for 5 years now and they are brilliant for sport climbing. I ugraded mine with some thicker tapes from edilrid.
Post edited at 11:31
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In reply to HeMa:
No, it's not. The fundamental defining element of sport climbing is that it relies on bolts for protection. Further information is secondary qualification; tendencies. To be sure, the redpoint process enjoys a central role, but onsighting bolted routes is still sport climbing; ascents don't have to be redpoints to qualify; nor is it compulsory to be climbing at or near your limit. And, if having any meaningful discussion of modes of ascent, I don't think "actually just climbing" is a particularly useful category!
> Nah, it's the common definition of sport climbing.
No, it's not. The fundamental defining element of sport climbing is that it relies on bolts for protection. Further information is secondary qualification; tendencies. To be sure, the redpoint process enjoys a central role, but onsighting bolted routes is still sport climbing; ascents don't have to be redpoints to qualify; nor is it compulsory to be climbing at or near your limit. And, if having any meaningful discussion of modes of ascent, I don't think "actually just climbing" is a particularly useful category!
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In reply to bpmclimb:
So, as has been pointed out to me by numerous UKC peeps on other treads, they're all *WRONG*.
If it has bolts, it's sport climbing...
I've seen the light. Praise Jeebus.
* que someone tellin' you about say, Bachar-Yerian... which relies mostly on bolts, and the crux pitch solely on bolts... But it ain't sport climbing.
> No, it's not. The fundamental defining element of sport climbing is that it relies on bolts for protection.
So, as has been pointed out to me by numerous UKC peeps on other treads, they're all *WRONG*.
If it has bolts, it's sport climbing...
I've seen the light. Praise Jeebus.
* que someone tellin' you about say, Bachar-Yerian... which relies mostly on bolts, and the crux pitch solely on bolts... But it ain't sport climbing.
In reply to HeMa:
Was there supposed to be some intelligible point there?
.... actually, on second thoughts, forget it: I've lost interest. Have a nice day
Was there supposed to be some intelligible point there?
.... actually, on second thoughts, forget it: I've lost interest. Have a nice day
In reply to bpmclimb:
Yes, not all bolted climbs are sport routes.
> Was there supposed to be some intelligible point there?
Yes, not all bolted climbs are sport routes.
In reply to HeMa:
But he said 'the fundamental defining element of sport climbing is that it relies on bolts for protection', which I would agree with, not that bolts = a sport climb (if you assume an implicit 'only' before the word 'relies').
If a climb relies on both bolts and trad gear, it is not a sport route.
If a climb relies on both a limited number of bolts and skill during dangerously run-out sections, it is not a sport climb.
To be a (well-bolted) sport climb the bolting should be sufficient to completely protect the climber at all points.
Various exceptions prove the rule (e.g. badly-bolted sport routes).
But he said 'the fundamental defining element of sport climbing is that it relies on bolts for protection', which I would agree with, not that bolts = a sport climb (if you assume an implicit 'only' before the word 'relies').
If a climb relies on both bolts and trad gear, it is not a sport route.
If a climb relies on both a limited number of bolts and skill during dangerously run-out sections, it is not a sport climb.
To be a (well-bolted) sport climb the bolting should be sufficient to completely protect the climber at all points.
Various exceptions prove the rule (e.g. badly-bolted sport routes).
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