UKC

Hi there.
This is my first post on UKC so I thought I'd put it in this neck of the forum.

I am currently thinking about buying a beast maker 1000, I have been climbing for 4 years about once or twice a week and I love it. However there is a worry I have. I am under 16 (14 to be precice) and have seen posters in climbing gyms that say over 16s only (or something similar) above their hang boards and explain that hangboards can be dangerous for growth. On the other hand I've seen posts in forums about parents giving their 9 yr old kids hangboards for their birthday. I can't seem to find any useful advice. Do gyms just say no under 16s to cover their back if someone hurts themselves?

Should I get a hangboard?

If I did get a hangboard should I take precautions that others might not. (I understand about warming up etc fairly well)

Any advice is really appreciated and thanks in advance to any replies.

Ps The reason I want a hangboard is because I feel the only thing holding me back from pushing to higher grades is my strength (at the moment I do about F5+ and F6a(French grade) and am pushing F6a+ (F5+ is about a 5b in Font I think)



Thanks again.

In reply to George B01:

Parents can often have a ridiculous habit of living their dreams through their kids, and can tend to push them to crazy extremes, in hope they'll achieve something amazing.
It's a nice idea, who wouldn't want success for their child, but the negative effects seem to be ignored.
Anyhow, before I digress too much, that's basically the reason you see minors with finger boards.

There's a reason why most centres ask for kids to stay off them, and it's a good reason.
You are growing and developing at an alarming rate, and will do into your 20s.
Putting excess strain and pressure on your self can and will do irreparable damage to tendons and growth plates. Long story short, you'll find your climbing career ending swiftly.

I know you want to improve, but don't let it affect your long term health.
Instead, focus on core and upper body strength. Climb regularly, and maybe look at some coaching lessons to improve technique.

Your time will come, there's no need to rush. Enjoy yourself.

In reply to George B01:

Hi George, sounds like you're really keen to improve your climbing
The grades that your climbing, it won't be your fingerstrength that's letting you down, but more likely technique. Can you get down to the wall more often, perhaps become a regular and climb with people who are better than you and can offer advice?
Perhaps join a kids club or even get some coaching.

Even if you were an adult I wouldn't recommend finger-boarding (hangboarding) yet. There'll be plenty of time for that in the future

In reply to Tomtom:

Agreed. If you can get a hold of a copy of "1 move too many" it has a good section on youth training.

Also try using google scholar to search for research on long term athletic development in climbing for youth.

There is lots of good stuff out there regards how to train youth athletes without damaging the body long-term.

In reply to George B01:

I would be inclined to say that regardless of whether a hangboard is a good idea at your age, you can definitely improve your grade without it.
You should be able to climb a full number grade harder (f7a) than you currently do before you need to even think about training specific finger strength, just keep climbing, trying harder problems, watch better climbers, maybe do a movement/technique course and you will develop all of the required skills and more than enough finger strength to break into the 7's at least.
Throughout the 6's, your movement and footwork (and stamina if it is steep) is much more important than out and out finger strength, you shouldn't be bearing down on tiny heinous crimps or holding your bodyweight on a nasty pinch at that level.

Based on what I have heard and read, it's really not worth risking your physical development, plus it isn't half as fun as actually climbing! Good luck

P.S. If I was climbing at 14 I'd have wanted a hangboard too, and I'd probably not have listened to advice and got one regardless, so if you do buy one, please be incredibly careful.

There are specific dangers for growing children using finger boards / campus boards or over training the fingers.

Children's bones contain growth plates which are the means by which they extend / grow. These are very easy to damage by over training, especially for the hands. Damage to these can lead to very significant and permanent injuries to the fingers. Once your stopped growing these growth plates harden and disappear making your bones much harder.

It is a bad idea to use a hang board or campus board until you've stopped growing and you should be very careful about over training your fingers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphyseal_plate
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/should-u18s-use-campus-boards-finger-injuries
http://www.planetmountain.com/english/News/shownews1.lasso?l=2&keyid=38...

So it is a good idea to listen to the advice above!

In reply to George B01:
Like most of the guys have said, you need to climb more, you don't need a board at the level you are climbing at.

Instead of the Beastmaker, why not get a couple of coaching sessions.

If you do get one, make sure you don't use it during a growth spurt or if you have put on a lot of muscle. The ends of your bones, the growth plates, are very susceptible to damage when you are growing and this could lead to long term damage.

Also, try and open hand as much as you can. Look at Eva Lopez website as she has some good stuff all backed up by her own (and others) research.

Best of luck.

In reply to Everyone:
Thanks for the advice I don't think I will be getting a beast maker anymore. I have been doing the NICAS award scheme regularly at my local climbing gym with the instructors quite a bit (I have just started level 4 out of 5) Like some of you suggested I should probably just stick to working the specifications NICAS provides. Level 4 is about lead climbing and level 5 is all about training. By the time I finish level 4 and have done a fair bit of level 5 I will be about 16 I reckon. Would it still be a bad idea to buy a hangboard then?

Ps
Thank you everyone so much for the replies at least now I have some definitive advice and hopefully this topic will show up on Google when someone else like me types in hangboard under 16!

In reply to George B01:

At the risk of contradicting some of the advice above, it is possible to use a fingerboard at your age, but it should be done with care, preferably under the supervision of a good coach. My 14 year old son has one, I was very reluctant to let him get one, but his coach convinced me that it was a good idea. However, you do need to know what you are doing, for example, my son has hardly trained at all for the last 6 months as he's had a growth spurt.

That said, at the grade you are climbing at the moment, more climbing will help you improve far more than a fingerboard.

In reply to Mark Kemball:
Thanks Mark but I am the only person in my family that is into climbing; so supervision is not really an option. I have just told my parents I'm not going to get a hangboard and they were more relieved about me not having to screw things in to walls than injuring myself I got into climbing by accident really and I've pretty much always been pushed by coaches not my parents. So when I say I climbed a F6a+ the other day they look at me like What on earth are you on about?

Thanks again.

And thank you to everyone for the advice without it I guess I would be missing more than just grades because of injury!

In reply to George B01:

Lot of do-gooders posting here. If you are psyched for fingerboarding go for it. Campusing is potentially joint and tendon wrecking but fingerboard deadhanging with proper warm up and progressively harder hangs is potentially one of the most controllable and safe forms of finger training out there - safer than fingery bouldering. Why start young ? because finger strength gains are tiny and take years so start soon. Any tweaks then back off. Growth plate damage is a fair point. The thing to to watch for is when you are hungry all the time. That indicates a growing spurt. Back off the deadhangs then. If you have recorded the growing then it is already too late.

In reply to George B01:

Interesting that 2 people have taken the trouble to "dislike" my post without bothering to say why! You have to be very careful with fingerboards, granted, but if you really disagree with what I've said, say so and explain why.

In reply to shark:

Interesting that a couple of people have disliked your post too, but don't want to say why.

Personally, I think the approach you're suggesting is a bit to "gung-ho" and that there is a serious risk of possibly permanent damage. The problem is, teenagers can get too psyched and not spot the warning signs, or deliberately ignore them - that's why you need someone else, who understands the whole process, standing back and keeping an eye on what's happening.

In reply to George B01:
If your grades are 5+ and 6a/6a+ you won't see any improvement from hangboarding. Maybe once you're approaching 7A and ~7a/7b it could be worthwhile if you're not completing problems due to issues with finger strength, but it's crazy to hangboard at your age when your tendons and muscles are still developing naturally and at the kind of grade you're climbing at.

Working finger strength is worth doing when you need to do it to progress, before that it's just time you would be better spent smashing more problems/routes. It takes AGES to make any measurable progress with a hangboard, it's really not worth your time.

Edit: Sorry, I was assuming the grades you were talking about are your bouldering grade and lead grades but now I've re-read it maybe you're just talking about leading. If you're not bouldering you should spend some time on that, it'll help your lead grade far more than any sort of dedicated training would.

In reply to George B01: There's some great advice in this post George, and as you can see a lot of people have said the same thing. I'd agree with them. From the grades you're climbing, and the amount of climbing you do currently, as well as your age, supplementing your climbing with a fingerboard will potentially cause more problems than it will solve, however it's great that you're keen and looking at ways of getting better - that drive to improve is the first step to you becoming a great climber. For more information on injury related stuff, including prevention, please buy Dave Macleod's new book and read the first couple of chapters on technique and injury prevention (this should be talked about during NICAS level 5 so you'll be getting a head start there!) as well as the chapter on young climbers.

For people your age, the most important thing is to gain a large variety of experience just simply climbing. Teaching your body how to climb, in terms of technique, is what you should focus on currently, this will have the added advantage of preparing and conditioning your body for future training. You should try to understand and apply the fundamentals of good climbing technique, and if possible spend some time with a good climbing coach, who will point you in the correct direction. You're at an age where your body will learn techniques much better than it will in a couple of years time, so use this time now as an opportunity to gain that experience. This is why most of the top climbers now are so good - they started climbing from a young age, so they are naturally smooth and efficient and have a large bank of moves and techniques stored in their head!

The best way to improve your grade in the short term is to climb as much as you can, without burning yourself out! When I was 13-15 ish I climbed 3-5 times a week in my local bouldering wall, every night after school. Now, I always maintain a base level of climbing ability no matter how little climbing I do, because of this period of conditioning and the amount of climbing I did at a fairly young age. Bouldering might be a good way for you to increase the amount of climbing you do and give you a good variety at the same time, so if there's a centre near you (where do you live?) then check it out and have a session of bouldering per week as well as your current climbing sessions. I think you'll see a lot of progress as your technique improves, along with your general upper body strength. Bouldering is also a great way of improving your finger strength too, and can be less intense than fingerboarding alone.

Congratulations on completing level 3 anyway, enjoy level 4 and make the most of the opportunities you will have to improve your climbing, remember though that NICAS isn't the most important thing in your climbing, you need to enjoy it and climb for the enjoyment factor, not just for ticking boxes in a NICAS book! There's a lot of good information out there, look at "The Self Coached Climber" for some really good and detailed technique and training stuff, but be careful as it is aimed at people older than you who aren't still growing. Dave MacLeod's book for injury prevention and advice, as well as the resources offered by NICAS related to training and young climbers - some of the NIBAS material is brilliant too if you can get hold of it.

I hope that some of what I've written will help. Feel free to ask more questions

In reply to Mark Kemball:
Hi Mark

I disliked your post, my kids will, when they find something they enjoy doing, undertake that activity until either exhausted or a body part gives up, recently I have had to stop them competing to see who can hang for longest off pull up bar, ban them from whittling until the blisters on their hands recover, reduce the frequency of fell running and insist my daughter has sufficient ummph to attend school after swim training. I hope that by varying the options and occasional bans I can reduce the chances of injury from over 'training'(or just having fun).
Because of this tendency, I don't think specific training aids are suitable for kids
John

In reply to George B01:

Hi George,

If you are training hard, remember to have a break every 4 weeks or so. I have some training programmes you could have but with the understanding you will let your instructor have a look before you start it. You would need to adjust the levels as it was written for my daughter and she was climbing about 7c at the time. Message me if you are interested.

Cheers, Scott.

In reply to Mark Kemball:


Personally, I think the approach you're suggesting is a bit to "gung-ho" and that there is a serious risk of possibly permanent damage. The problem is, teenagers can get too psyched and not spot the warning signs, or deliberately ignore them - that's why you need someone else, who understands the whole process, standing back and keeping an eye on what's happening.



Yeah could be - depends on your outlook. If my son had said he wanted to fingerboard I would find a way to allow him to do that with a reasonable margin of safety. They didn't expressed that desire and are still good climbers (and runner, tennis player etc). That said I also got a coach to back off when they had one of them doing foot on campusing as I thought it was risky and inappropriate. If it had been part of a carefully considered programme I might have not intervened

In reply to John Kelly:

Thanks for your comments, I agree with most of them (have a "like"!). There is a serious risk of teenagers overdoing it, not warming up properly, not warming down etc. I have had to warn my lad about it a number of times. However, I do think there is a place for specific training aids with proper supervision.