UKC

Looking for the next adventure and my sights are on multi day easy climbs (VS).

Never done a big wall but got plenty of climbing experience.
Ideally looking at sleeping on natural ledges, just one less thing to think about on your first big wall climb.

Any comments welcome

In reply to Somerville:

Finding 'Big Walls' in Europe that are VS - hmm, instantly Alpine climbing springs to mind. Maybe not the clean looking walls in the Yosemite style, but there are loads of classic rock routes in the alps big enough to warrant at least a bivvy either at the bottom or at the top.

I'm not sure about proper 'Big Walls' though at VS.

For just a selection of totally awesome and generally quite long multipitch routes, you should take a look at the Plaisir Selection guidebook from Filidor.

Cheers,

Jack

In reply to Somerville:

Not many such ones I'd assume. As generally people climb even long VS's in a day.

Some that spring to mind might be the N-ridge on Piz Padile (if you're slow, might need one night on the actual route and another at the bivi-hut at the top. Also the easiest ridge in Salbitschen prolly might suit ya.

Btw. for most people big wall often also includes aid climbing... so from what I gather you want is a multi-day rock climb.

In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:

Cheers,

I though VS to make things smoother, i would go upto HVS to be honest.
Ill look at Plaisir as you said jack,

Thanks

In reply to HeMa:

Hi,

Seems to be a trend, i was thinking there will be big stuff to do in Norway, my knowledge on that area is very poor.
Prolly looks good.
I would go for A1 sure. but freeing it would be ideal.

Cheers for ideas!

In reply to Somerville: I'm struggling to think of anything that fits the bill easily in Norway although it's a big place and there may well be something somewhere. Rock in Norway tends to be steep/hard, or loose, or slabby and very runout.

How many pitches are you normally doing in a day?

Dolomites seems more likely to me

In reply to Somerville:

The Sarco Walls guidebook has several

In reply to Somerville:

Sass Pordoi springs to mind. If you combine Fedele (IV+) with Dibona Upper Wall (IV+), you get 35 pitches (UKC logbooks say it's 1085m of climbing) of IV+. Dibona (IV-) can be climbed instead of Fedele, but it is lower quality route.

In reply to Somerville:
Jack's advice is spot on - I notice you've climbed in the Ecrin which is chock full of long rock routes where a bivvi will probably be needed e.g. Big Tower is Watching You (TD-) although generally more to go at from HVS upwards. The Dolomites has loads of good easier long routes, too. e.g. the South Face, Tofana di Rozes which have serious epic potential. One thing to bear in mind with big routes in Europe though, is the prevalence of afternoon thunderstorms which can be a limiting factor.

In reply to Somerville:

The closest I can think of, would be Mongenjura Sydpillar, about 1000m or so of climbing. But Nor 6+, so E1/2 or something like that.

Majority of the big climbs are a lot harder (A3 or Fr 6c onwards).

The easiest route on Trollveggen might also be ok (and close by to Mongenjura), albeit that cliff has a reputation on being loose.

Still, as I said, for a one-night on the route, and Vs... well, you prolly should look for 1500 + m route lenghts. I mean the Badile n-ridge is a tad over 1000m of climbing, plus ~400m or ridge scrambling to the hut.... and still people climb it on a day (ie. might sleep on the hut at the top, but not on the route).

In reply to danm:

>One thing to bear in mind with big routes in Europe though, is the prevalence of afternoon thunderstorms which can be a limiting factor.


Especially true for the Alps & dolomite. Not so much for Norway... But then again during summer you'll have pretty much enough light to climb as long as you like.

In reply to HeMa:

Last I heard the local mountain rescue advise against summer ascents of Trollveggen. The permafrost that used to hold it together isn't so perma nowadays.

In reply to davidbeynon:

Indeed... but the easiest route climbs up on the buttress of climbers left from the legendary (loose & overhanging) Trollveggen wall.

I seem to recall someone wrote/blogged about their climb a year or a few back. And stated that what they climbed was quite solid, safe and ok...

In reply to HeMa:

All 3 of those words being relative of course '

There are some reasonably big routes around VS in the Julian Alps as well. Similar mountains to the Dolomites, slightly better weather in my experience. I think the longer ones could be split into 2 days, but should be possible in a day if you are going well.

In reply to Somerville:

this may fit the bill (click on "topo").

http://www.bergsteigen.com/klettern/oberoesterreich/totes-gebirge/schlossge...

In reply to Somerville:

The problem you have is that given your profile you can lead E3. So almost all VS routes could be done by you in a day.

How about something a little harder so you will be going more slowly? Kundalini linked to Luna Nascente in Val de Mello? Very easy to get to, very short walk in, often good weather. Easy decent. Nice patch of woodland half way up to sleep in. No alpine experience needed. Granite. With sleeping bags etc. this would be a really great adventure. You could even practice hauling on the couple of harder pitches, or better, the second could practice jugging with the sack.

Of course there is really no need to even leave the country, just climb this: http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=69926

In reply to David Coley:

Good suggestion for a route combo.

How about doing it "fast and light" first, as normal.

Then doing it "big wall style", carrying water, hauling and jugging to clean/second ?

Crowds permitting, but would be a real eye opener to a lot of folk.

In reply to Somerville:

They don't exist - big walls are considered 'takes competent parties more than a day'

The troll wall, the dolomites aid or hard free climbs are all I can think of

The easiest big walls are either Touchstone wall in Zion would be a contender, or South face of Washington column. Note, Washington column is short and a lot shorter than most alpine routes, but the difficulty comes into it

In reply to Somerville:
Pilier Sud on the Barre des Ecrins

In reply to Somerville:

As some people have mentioned it's quite tricky to find big walls at that grade in Europe that can't be done in a day. But a couple of other possibilities which might provide the sort of experience you're looking for are:

The North Ridge of the Badile, it can easily be done in a day, so it's not really a great candidate for a proper multi-day climb.

But when we did it the hut was full, so we bivied at the start of the climbing, a little way up the ridge (You just need to ascend a couple of snowfields to get there). There is a small notch just after the snow slopes, with a small stone ledge that can only fit 2-3 people. So although it's not really a multi day climb, you can get the feeling of sleeping on a big wall, as it's a big drop below you and you've got the North Face of the Badile above you with the famous Cassin Route, so it's quite a cool experience.

We also did a multi-day route in Wadi Rum (not in Europe, I know, but it's not a long flight away) that involved completing a route (there are lots of long routes that finish on the summit plateau) and then a bivi on the summit plateau before descending the next day, and that was also quite a special experience.

In reply to Somerville:

I suppose the issue is that Europe hasn't really gone in for aid.

El cap is only multi-day because it's aid, and aid is slow. Other 1000m routes go free in a long day for competent parties. Some are even bolted (enfants de la dalle for example).

If we then change the question to "big rock routes with a decent bivvi en route", then the Pordoi ledge would do - although it's only ?6 pitches to the top from the ledge. You could even rest in one of the "jardins" in verdon (300m). Nordkante on Badile has been mentioned, although the bivvis are really best at foot and summit. You could do the big south arete pitch on Dent d'Orlu witha bivvi before the traverse, but it's not really necessary. Sarco/Arco walls has some options as I mentioned earlier. Vignemale N face could be broken after the serpentine rib.

BUT

The big question is why you'd want to carry all that gear if you can time it to climb light?

In reply to Somerville:

North Ridge Mt Agner, 1600 m, 1 hr to start, lots of ledges to doss on,

In reply to Albert Tatlock:

Was just going to chip in with that one. Take a look at some of the photo's here : http://www.camminiverticali.it/cammini/dettaglio/2011-08-01-agner-spigolo-n...

In reply to JJL:



I'm not sure that is true. Most people who climb el cap free, or nearly free, do it over several days. The free climbing boys and girls are still living the portaledge life.

There are plenty of multiday routes in Europe. The reason most of us can climb long routes in Europe in a day is that we stick well below our max level. e.g. climb E2 on the grit; stick to VS (with maybe one harder pitch) when it is 20 pitches. In Yosemite people are free climbing near their on site limit for 20+ pitches. This is something I think a lot of UK climbers might like to consider doing, and it is a lot of fun. It just isn't fashionable with us. The snowy stuff in the alps has taught us light is right. Rock is different.

So, find something that is going to take a hour per pitch because it is near your limit, is 20+ pitches, and settle down for 3 days of wall life.

In reply to Somerville:

Monte Brento/ sarche walls!! where started big walling.

In reply to HeMa:


I think the route you describe is the East Pillar of Sondre Trolltind, two buttresses left of the troll wall. The central of the three ribs in the left side of this photo
http://www.westcoastpeaks.com/pics06/rhorn_27wviewH.jpg
This is another view which shows it isn't very steep (mostly)
http://www.trollshop.net/anders/troll_wall_area/DSCF1212.JPG

According to Tony Howard's guide "it gives a very long and therefore serious route but the standard is nowhere excessive"
It has a few pitches of 5 (probably about VS 4b/c ish) and its over 2000m long so if you pithed it its probably about 50 pitches long but in reality I think you'd have to move together over much of it.
Its nowhere near steep enough to haul sacks, you'd have to climb with them on so in practice you're not going to carry bivvy gear. You'd have to do it in one push however long that might take but in June or July it won't really go dark anyway, its only rain you've got to worry about!

In reply to Somerville:
A multiday VS is surely a £Big Slab£, or possibly a big mountain, rather than a big wall? If you can't haul because the rock is very broken or because it's not steep enough, you're not on a wall.

There are a number of aid routes around Europe with very low free-climbing grade, that potentially take days to complete. You'll find a number of fair weather options in Spain. On Pared de Catalonia, Naranjo de Bulnes, and even on one of the north faces of Montserrat e.g.

There are also a number of long rock routes, like the East Buttress on Trolltind just mentioned that has low grade, and take reasonably competent parties a long time to climb. But then you can't haul of course.

In reply to wbo:

I just spent a summer in dolomites and have been doing 15 pitches in a day.

just looking for tht big wall feel.

In reply to Somerville:


Simply looking at pitch numbers, does not necessary mean the route is long.

Old dolomite and alpine rock routes, the pitches rarely are longer than 20 to 30m. And some are a lot shorter. True though, that with a lot of pitching it can take a long while to climb the thing.

In my opinion it is always best to look at climbing meters (ie. add up all pitch lengts together), when you're talking about "long" routes.

Because on some classics 20 odd pitches can actually mean 200 to 250m meters worth of climbing. And on good granite, the same length often translates to 5 or 6 pitches. Eg. Vestpillaren on Presten is ~400m of climbing (omitting the big ledge and the gully), and that's in 10 pitches (ie. 40m per pitch).

The yellow edge/areta on Tre Cime is 13 pitches and 350m (27m per pitch). Older routes have even shorter pitches on them.