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Hope this is a right forum to post this question in, new to these forums..
Going to Findhorn with non-climbing friends at the end of Feb, me and my wife were hoping to stop off at Cummingston if the weather is agreeable to do a few routes while we're there. Have got the North-East outcrops guide so at least know whats there even if there aren't many topos available.
My question is, do we need a pair of ropes or will we be fine with a single 50m doubled up for the longer routes on the Prophet Walls area? Also, what gear is worth bringing and what to leave behind? Our car is small and we're driving friends up as well so can't bring the kitchen sink as per usual!
Any tips for must do routes up to HVS also appreciated. Sorry if these seem like silly questions but it's our first time leading on sandstone and our first climbing trip in the frozen north!
Going to Findhorn with non-climbing friends at the end of Feb, me and my wife were hoping to stop off at Cummingston if the weather is agreeable to do a few routes while we're there. Have got the North-East outcrops guide so at least know whats there even if there aren't many topos available.
My question is, do we need a pair of ropes or will we be fine with a single 50m doubled up for the longer routes on the Prophet Walls area? Also, what gear is worth bringing and what to leave behind? Our car is small and we're driving friends up as well so can't bring the kitchen sink as per usual!
Any tips for must do routes up to HVS also appreciated. Sorry if these seem like silly questions but it's our first time leading on sandstone and our first climbing trip in the frozen north!
In reply to edmundro:
50m should be fine. Although you made need a few long slings for belays. Rack of nuts and a few friends. Haven't done it for a while but one of my personal faves is stegosauras.
PS the Moray coast is most definitely not the frozen north - it has it's own micro climate which is very mild. A local challenge is to surf in the morning then drive down to Aviemore to ski.
50m should be fine. Although you made need a few long slings for belays. Rack of nuts and a few friends. Haven't done it for a while but one of my personal faves is stegosauras.
PS the Moray coast is most definitely not the frozen north - it has it's own micro climate which is very mild. A local challenge is to surf in the morning then drive down to Aviemore to ski.
Post edited at 09:36
In reply to Father Noel Furlong:
Cool, thanks for that. Was gonna take a short length of static and long slings for the stakes. Was just checking I didn't need anything random or esoteric to climb there!
Cool, thanks for that. Was gonna take a short length of static and long slings for the stakes. Was just checking I didn't need anything random or esoteric to climb there!
In reply to edmundro:
Be extremely wary of the rock. A few of the climbs the rock is very good quality and would hold falls on the gear (although I question the reliability of cams and small nuts). Most the climbs the holds and gear are questionable and the gear is sparse. Probably still quite a high percentage of the climbs foot holds will be crumbling as you step on them and you will not have one piece of gear you trust.
Its quite a good top ropeing or bouldering venue though or indeed if you pick out the plum trad lines.
Loggie head is in general a better trad venue on better sandstone (its partially metamorphosed and a fin so overall quite a bit stronger with better gear, but still watch the climbs that look more rounded and sandy)
Be extremely wary of the rock. A few of the climbs the rock is very good quality and would hold falls on the gear (although I question the reliability of cams and small nuts). Most the climbs the holds and gear are questionable and the gear is sparse. Probably still quite a high percentage of the climbs foot holds will be crumbling as you step on them and you will not have one piece of gear you trust.
Its quite a good top ropeing or bouldering venue though or indeed if you pick out the plum trad lines.
Loggie head is in general a better trad venue on better sandstone (its partially metamorphosed and a fin so overall quite a bit stronger with better gear, but still watch the climbs that look more rounded and sandy)
Post edited at 10:21
In reply to edmundro:
Two things to be aware of, the tide and sand. Tide is pretty obvious. Depending on what route you climb the sand can be a bloody pain. Gets in your eyes and blows about. Shame as otherwise Cummingston is beautiful. Still haven't seen the dolphins whilst on a route....that's still on my ticklist.
Two things to be aware of, the tide and sand. Tide is pretty obvious. Depending on what route you climb the sand can be a bloody pain. Gets in your eyes and blows about. Shame as otherwise Cummingston is beautiful. Still haven't seen the dolphins whilst on a route....that's still on my ticklist.
In reply to edmundro:
Great advice guys, have been reading a little on sandstone climbing recently so understand it's not that trustworthy, especially after rain. Do the Scots use knotted protection like in Elbsandstein? Was thinking of making up a few knot nuts just for the fun of it.
We're not really into top roping or bouldering so maybe Loggie Head is a better option if the rock looks iffy. That said I like a bit of boldness in my life and was mostly interested in the crack/corner routes which would hopefully be more stable than the flakes.
Really appreciate you guys taking time to reply.
Edit: aware of the super fine sand up there as have been to the dunes at Findhorn many times!
Great advice guys, have been reading a little on sandstone climbing recently so understand it's not that trustworthy, especially after rain. Do the Scots use knotted protection like in Elbsandstein? Was thinking of making up a few knot nuts just for the fun of it.
We're not really into top roping or bouldering so maybe Loggie Head is a better option if the rock looks iffy. That said I like a bit of boldness in my life and was mostly interested in the crack/corner routes which would hopefully be more stable than the flakes.
Really appreciate you guys taking time to reply.
Edit: aware of the super fine sand up there as have been to the dunes at Findhorn many times!
Post edited at 10:18
In reply to edmundro:
please read my post if you haven't. I don't think cummingston is a good place to get you first taste of trad sandstone, or if you do - pick out the 10% of climbs that are on good rock with good gear, its a better top ropeing or bouldering venue (and sure after rain it will be EVEN worse in this regard)
Loggie head is much safer and better climbing on sandstone and not too far away
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=1889
the right hand side of the fin facing out to sea is the best rock quality, and the middle of the fin is not as high quality as either end (which is mostly trust worthy solid rock)
Its also sunnier and faster drying, major considerations at this time of year. Watch the tides on the end of the fin.
Either venue will feel very very cold if the wind is from the north.
please read my post if you haven't. I don't think cummingston is a good place to get you first taste of trad sandstone, or if you do - pick out the 10% of climbs that are on good rock with good gear, its a better top ropeing or bouldering venue (and sure after rain it will be EVEN worse in this regard)
Loggie head is much safer and better climbing on sandstone and not too far away
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=1889
the right hand side of the fin facing out to sea is the best rock quality, and the middle of the fin is not as high quality as either end (which is mostly trust worthy solid rock)
Its also sunnier and faster drying, major considerations at this time of year. Watch the tides on the end of the fin.
Either venue will feel very very cold if the wind is from the north.
Post edited at 10:28
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I most certainly did read your post and in no way meant my reply to sound dismissive!
Logie head it is then
Off work sick today so going through the rack and packing in anticipation(admittedly a little premature!)
I most certainly did read your post and in no way meant my reply to sound dismissive!
Logie head it is then
Off work sick today so going through the rack and packing in anticipation(admittedly a little premature!)
Post edited at 10:30
In reply to edmundro:
the short climbs on the start of the fin (right side facing out to sea) are mostly solid and non tidal with good gear.
the short climbs on the start of the fin (right side facing out to sea) are mostly solid and non tidal with good gear.
In reply to edmundro:
the only routes at cummingstone that I found to be quite well protected on good rock were in this area. but I'm sure some of the other bits are ok too, I found plenty of very average to poor rock there
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=31554
the only routes at cummingstone that I found to be quite well protected on good rock were in this area. but I'm sure some of the other bits are ok too, I found plenty of very average to poor rock there
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=31554
Post edited at 10:33
In reply to edmundro:
No. The rock isn't that bad.
As above, it's not. There's def no need to top rope as there is plenty of good placements available. That said the crag is so near the road if you do change your mind you can easily walk back and go somewhere else. The ice cream shop in Fochabers is outstanding
> Do the Scots use knotted protection like in Elbsandstein?
No. The rock isn't that bad.
> We're not really into top roping or bouldering so maybe Loggie Head is a better option if the rock looks iffy.
As above, it's not. There's def no need to top rope as there is plenty of good placements available. That said the crag is so near the road if you do change your mind you can easily walk back and go somewhere else. The ice cream shop in Fochabers is outstanding
In reply to Father Noel Furlong:
weird that I remember doing vdiff where nearly ever foot hold crumbled and there was no gear and soloing a gearless mod on very average rock.
I'm not arguing there is some good climbs with good gear but its highly variable on that front. the poorer rock I found had less cracks also!
weird that I remember doing vdiff where nearly ever foot hold crumbled and there was no gear and soloing a gearless mod on very average rock.
I'm not arguing there is some good climbs with good gear but its highly variable on that front. the poorer rock I found had less cracks also!
Post edited at 10:35
In reply to Father Noel Furlong:
Well I shall try both venues and report back on my findings!
Cheers chaps.
Well I shall try both venues and report back on my findings!
Cheers chaps.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Not sure I agree with you there.
It was my first experience of climbing trad sandstone and i found it no different from trad anywhere else. Apart from the bloody sand that is.
Not looking to argue. Just offering a different perspective.
> I don't think cummingston is a good place to get you first taste of trad sandstone, or if you do - pick out the 10% of climbs that are on good rock with good gear, its a better top ropeing or bouldering venue (and sure after rain it will be EVEN worse in this regard)
Not sure I agree with you there.
It was my first experience of climbing trad sandstone and i found it no different from trad anywhere else. Apart from the bloody sand that is.
Not looking to argue. Just offering a different perspective.
1
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Looks like we're replying to each other at the same time
Different perspectives.....be interested to hear how the OP get's on.
> weird that I remember doing vdiff where nearly ever foot hold crumbled and there was no gear and soloing a gearless mod on very average rock.
> I'm not arguing there is some good climbs with good gear but its highly variable on that front. the poorer rock I found had less cracks also!
Looks like we're replying to each other at the same time
Different perspectives.....be interested to hear how the OP get's on.
In reply to Father Noel Furlong:
I would not advise it to someone not that experienced on sandstone / trad myself. I'm pretty sure the NE guide book does mention the pretty variable rock quality and top ropeing.
The clue to the safety is SOFT sandstone, that's why you were finding sand everywhere, its also why the holds and gear and less trustworthy.
Loggie head is greywacke which is partially metamorphosed sandstone and in general harder (although still pretty variable). The fact its a fin of rock surviving sticking out in to the sea means its mostly better quality and quite well cleaned from storms etc
I would not advise it to someone not that experienced on sandstone / trad myself. I'm pretty sure the NE guide book does mention the pretty variable rock quality and top ropeing.
The clue to the safety is SOFT sandstone, that's why you were finding sand everywhere, its also why the holds and gear and less trustworthy.
Loggie head is greywacke which is partially metamorphosed sandstone and in general harder (although still pretty variable). The fact its a fin of rock surviving sticking out in to the sea means its mostly better quality and quite well cleaned from storms etc
Post edited at 10:51
In reply to edmundro:
what grade trad do you normally lead? For loggie head you really want to be leading VS to get on to the better rock quality although I think you'll find similar at cummingston also although to be fair it does have better low grade routes.
what grade trad do you normally lead? For loggie head you really want to be leading VS to get on to the better rock quality although I think you'll find similar at cummingston also although to be fair it does have better low grade routes.
Post edited at 10:43
1
In reply to edmundro:
Logie Head is a lovely little venue. Further to drive for you from Findhorn and a 20 minute walk in but Cullen is a nice little village. If it's trad you're after I'd agree that this is a better venue as it's generally safer than Cummingston. The gear is good. Mainly nuts and cams. A 50 metre rope is plenty. If you go there check the tide times and if you can get out onto the Star Zone that's where I think the best climbing is (you can ab in if the tide isn't out far enough) but there's still good climbing that's non-tidal (Embankment One and Two). Good routes are Sunnyside Up, Cullenary Delight, Moray Eel, Fallen Star, Poacher, Fading Star.
I think Cummingston is much more of an acquired taste. I'd agree that the gear and standard of the rock generally requires a more bold and confident approach. It's pretty much all stakes for anchors but a 50 metre is fine. I've never bothered with a pair of ropes at either venue. Good routes (on good rock with good gear): Left, Centre and Right on Prophet Walls.
Have a good time!
Logie Head is a lovely little venue. Further to drive for you from Findhorn and a 20 minute walk in but Cullen is a nice little village. If it's trad you're after I'd agree that this is a better venue as it's generally safer than Cummingston. The gear is good. Mainly nuts and cams. A 50 metre rope is plenty. If you go there check the tide times and if you can get out onto the Star Zone that's where I think the best climbing is (you can ab in if the tide isn't out far enough) but there's still good climbing that's non-tidal (Embankment One and Two). Good routes are Sunnyside Up, Cullenary Delight, Moray Eel, Fallen Star, Poacher, Fading Star.
I think Cummingston is much more of an acquired taste. I'd agree that the gear and standard of the rock generally requires a more bold and confident approach. It's pretty much all stakes for anchors but a 50 metre is fine. I've never bothered with a pair of ropes at either venue. Good routes (on good rock with good gear): Left, Centre and Right on Prophet Walls.
Have a good time!
Post edited at 10:44
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I comfortably lead HVS 5a at Swanage and in the West Country. Not quite so great on grit. I drop a few grades whenever I visit somewhere new.
Work as a tree surgeon so usually pretty happy well above my last placement swaying in the breeze
I comfortably lead HVS 5a at Swanage and in the West Country. Not quite so great on grit. I drop a few grades whenever I visit somewhere new.
Work as a tree surgeon so usually pretty happy well above my last placement swaying in the breeze
In reply to edmundro:
Swanage is ace. At those grades you'd have a field day at loggie head and find the rock quality and climbing quite Swanage-esk (as long as you avoid the chimneys!) although a lot shorter
Swanage is ace. At those grades you'd have a field day at loggie head and find the rock quality and climbing quite Swanage-esk (as long as you avoid the chimneys!) although a lot shorter
Post edited at 10:52
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Excellent, sounds good!
Discovered chimneys in Yosemite last september so might take a look at those too!
Rack currently looking like:
50m rope
1 set nuts plus a few dmm offsets
1 set slung rocks
Handful of cams from orange alien up to Dmm Dragon 5(no micros)
Nuff slings for the belays
Just checking I don't need any giant or tiny cams really lol!
Excellent, sounds good!
Discovered chimneys in Yosemite last september so might take a look at those too!
Rack currently looking like:
50m rope
1 set nuts plus a few dmm offsets
1 set slung rocks
Handful of cams from orange alien up to Dmm Dragon 5(no micros)
Nuff slings for the belays
Just checking I don't need any giant or tiny cams really lol!
In reply to edmundro:
the chimneys I did at loggie head were sandy, crumbling damp and lacking in gear. The faces tend to be solid and on good holds with mostly good nuts for gear. Loggie head is a bit more technical / fingery than Swanage but pumpy and well protected with some dubious rock in a similar vein.
the chimneys I did at loggie head were sandy, crumbling damp and lacking in gear. The faces tend to be solid and on good holds with mostly good nuts for gear. Loggie head is a bit more technical / fingery than Swanage but pumpy and well protected with some dubious rock in a similar vein.
Post edited at 11:29
In reply to CurlyStevo:
lol, maybe I wont bother with the chimneys then!
4 alpine draws and 6 regular draws should be more than enough I'm guessing. Got a cordlette and some long slings as well for good measure.
Only a couple of weeks to wait and pray for sunshine...
lol, maybe I wont bother with the chimneys then!
4 alpine draws and 6 regular draws should be more than enough I'm guessing. Got a cordlette and some long slings as well for good measure.
Only a couple of weeks to wait and pray for sunshine...
In reply to CurlyStevo:
For the record I've had more experience of gear and rock failing at Logie head than I have at cummingston.
I would say the starred routes at cummingston would be absolutely fine protection wise for an sandstone novice. The corner lines of left, right and centre would be a good start, then move onto the prophet, which is again very safe and good rock. The rock in the double doubt area is also very good.
Logie is in my opinion a nicer venue, but I wouldn't write cummingston off either. Do both!
For the record I've had more experience of gear and rock failing at Logie head than I have at cummingston.
I would say the starred routes at cummingston would be absolutely fine protection wise for an sandstone novice. The corner lines of left, right and centre would be a good start, then move onto the prophet, which is again very safe and good rock. The rock in the double doubt area is also very good.
Logie is in my opinion a nicer venue, but I wouldn't write cummingston off either. Do both!
3
In reply to Smelly Fox:
yes I mentioned the rock in the area of centre , left and right as being quite good at cumminston already.
I've never been as scared on a VDiff though as the one I lead on one of the isolated buttresses, literally not more than one bit of dubious gear and all the foot holds were crumbling under my feet.
If you stick to the areas I mentioned at loggie, I've not seen a bit of rock crumble or break off there and they do make up about half the listed climbs, cummingston the fairly good rock for trad is on a much smaller percentage of the crag and most the rock is between poor and somewhat dubious.
I'm not local though, but I've been to Loggie maybe 4 or 5 times and cummingston only twice as I didn't really rate it for trad at my grade. I did like a few of the climbs though.
yes I mentioned the rock in the area of centre , left and right as being quite good at cumminston already.
I've never been as scared on a VDiff though as the one I lead on one of the isolated buttresses, literally not more than one bit of dubious gear and all the foot holds were crumbling under my feet.
If you stick to the areas I mentioned at loggie, I've not seen a bit of rock crumble or break off there and they do make up about half the listed climbs, cummingston the fairly good rock for trad is on a much smaller percentage of the crag and most the rock is between poor and somewhat dubious.
I'm not local though, but I've been to Loggie maybe 4 or 5 times and cummingston only twice as I didn't really rate it for trad at my grade. I did like a few of the climbs though.
Post edited at 12:03
In reply to Smelly Fox:
I think the only way to keep the feuding locals on here happy is to visit both, given the responses on here!
I've dealt with my fair share or questionable rock at Fairy Cave and Avon so hopefully won't blow my mind completely up there.
Will be sure to report back after the trips to share my thoughts as a sandstone novitiate..
I think the only way to keep the feuding locals on here happy is to visit both, given the responses on here!
I've dealt with my fair share or questionable rock at Fairy Cave and Avon so hopefully won't blow my mind completely up there.
Will be sure to report back after the trips to share my thoughts as a sandstone novitiate..
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Very good!
I'd still be wary of small gear at cummingston, ive had gear rip and seen gear fail in the sunny side area and around it (classic novice area as you know). You mentioned the star zone, I'd agree the rock there is amazing. Moray eel area too.
Very good!
I'd still be wary of small gear at cummingston, ive had gear rip and seen gear fail in the sunny side area and around it (classic novice area as you know). You mentioned the star zone, I'd agree the rock there is amazing. Moray eel area too.
In reply to Smelly Fox:
fair enough - I did see a hold I thought was dubious that was also a nut placement had ripped between visits in the sunny side area (on poacher). Most the rock in that section is fairly high quality though IMO and there is quite a lot of gear to place - also the climbing is good.
fair enough - I did see a hold I thought was dubious that was also a nut placement had ripped between visits in the sunny side area (on poacher). Most the rock in that section is fairly high quality though IMO and there is quite a lot of gear to place - also the climbing is good.
Post edited at 12:18
In reply to edmundro:
I used to be local to both Cummingston and Logie Head and have climbed extensively at both venues (at a fairly low grade, may I add).
Whilst I'd agree that Logie Head (one "g") has better rock quality and protection than Cummingston, Cummingston isn't "that" bad if you pick your route wisely. Apart from the sand, the sand is horrible. Your gear will be crunchy after a visit to Cummingston.
If I had to choose and visit one venue only, I'd probably go for Logie Head, but both are a good day out. Cummingston much nearer to Findhorn and a shorter walk in, if that's a consideration.
The ice-cream shop in Cullen is also excellent.
I used to be local to both Cummingston and Logie Head and have climbed extensively at both venues (at a fairly low grade, may I add).
Whilst I'd agree that Logie Head (one "g") has better rock quality and protection than Cummingston, Cummingston isn't "that" bad if you pick your route wisely. Apart from the sand, the sand is horrible. Your gear will be crunchy after a visit to Cummingston.
If I had to choose and visit one venue only, I'd probably go for Logie Head, but both are a good day out. Cummingston much nearer to Findhorn and a shorter walk in, if that's a consideration.
The ice-cream shop in Cullen is also excellent.
2
In reply to Sealwife:
Thanks for the advice. Will aim to visit both venues if the weather is on our side.
Have put a pair of safety specs in my bag in an attempt to keep at least some of the sand out my eyes....
Thanks for the advice. Will aim to visit both venues if the weather is on our side.
Have put a pair of safety specs in my bag in an attempt to keep at least some of the sand out my eyes....
In reply to edmundro:
Cummingston's my local crag. It is mainly good with only the outlying area being truely bad rock..
Yes, Logie Head is a far better crag but much more of a drive then slog in than Cummingston...
Stick to Prophet Wall area for the best bit. HS - E4.. L R & Centre good, Prophet Wall soft at grade worth a go at as has sinker gear.
The stack is fine... Diff - E6! A few VS/HVS on West face.
Dierdre of Doubt and Dierdre of double doubt are ok at their grade but do require steady approach as the gear can be tricky to ensure sound..
A lot of routes suffer from erosion at the top and hence get plastered in fine sand.
Stegasaours and Trapeze are usually fine. Good lines.
Tim
Cummingston's my local crag. It is mainly good with only the outlying area being truely bad rock..
Yes, Logie Head is a far better crag but much more of a drive then slog in than Cummingston...
Stick to Prophet Wall area for the best bit. HS - E4.. L R & Centre good, Prophet Wall soft at grade worth a go at as has sinker gear.
The stack is fine... Diff - E6! A few VS/HVS on West face.
Dierdre of Doubt and Dierdre of double doubt are ok at their grade but do require steady approach as the gear can be tricky to ensure sound..
A lot of routes suffer from erosion at the top and hence get plastered in fine sand.
Stegasaours and Trapeze are usually fine. Good lines.
Tim
In reply to mountain musher:
Thanks for the tips! Putting a wishlist together for both venues. Not fussed about climbing too hard, just out for fun. Got 8 routes at Logie Head I want to have a look at and sure I'll find just as much at Cummingston too.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/showlist.php?id=172570
Thanks for the tips! Putting a wishlist together for both venues. Not fussed about climbing too hard, just out for fun. Got 8 routes at Logie Head I want to have a look at and sure I'll find just as much at Cummingston too.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/showlist.php?id=172570
Post edited at 17:54
In reply to edmundro:
If you did some or all of
Left (VS 5a)
Centre (VS 4b)
Right (HVS 5b)
Doubtless Wall (S)
Diedre of Doubt (HVS 5a)
Stegosaurus (VS 4c)
Sunshine Roof (HS)
Flying Buttress, Left Side (VD)
Flying Groove (VS 4c)
Sunset Song (HS 4b)
you should have a decent day's climbing without anything unduly loose, crumbly or sandy.
The downclimb off the stack is unpleasant but an abseil down the landward face is easy to rig.
If you did some or all of
Left (VS 5a)
Centre (VS 4b)
Right (HVS 5b)
Doubtless Wall (S)
Diedre of Doubt (HVS 5a)
Stegosaurus (VS 4c)
Sunshine Roof (HS)
Flying Buttress, Left Side (VD)
Flying Groove (VS 4c)
Sunset Song (HS 4b)
you should have a decent day's climbing without anything unduly loose, crumbly or sandy.
The downclimb off the stack is unpleasant but an abseil down the landward face is easy to rig.
1
In reply to edmundro:
Love Logie Head, ace place. Cummingston is a nice place but not in the same league for the climbs. Used to go to both fairly often.
At the former, Fallen Star, Poacher and Cullenary Delight are gems. Moray Eel, Sea Pink & Cullen Crack are pretty good too. Another +++ for the Cullen Ice Cream Shop too.
The Costa del Moray has hugely better weather than most of the Highlands, good choice.
Have fun,
Iain
Love Logie Head, ace place. Cummingston is a nice place but not in the same league for the climbs. Used to go to both fairly often.
At the former, Fallen Star, Poacher and Cullenary Delight are gems. Moray Eel, Sea Pink & Cullen Crack are pretty good too. Another +++ for the Cullen Ice Cream Shop too.
The Costa del Moray has hugely better weather than most of the Highlands, good choice.
Have fun,
Iain
4
In reply to Iain Thow:
Got our tick-list written up ready to go. Just counting down the days til we go up now! Logie Head is going to be our first stop as Liz wants to lead Fallen Star and Moray Eel. She's only up with us for a few days before having to leave early due to work. Can hopefully get a second day in at Cummingston, but failing that I can hopefully take some non-climbing friends there for a little play around.
Been studying pics/vids of both venues, def different and def keen to try both!
Got our tick-list written up ready to go. Just counting down the days til we go up now! Logie Head is going to be our first stop as Liz wants to lead Fallen Star and Moray Eel. She's only up with us for a few days before having to leave early due to work. Can hopefully get a second day in at Cummingston, but failing that I can hopefully take some non-climbing friends there for a little play around.
Been studying pics/vids of both venues, def different and def keen to try both!
In reply to edmundro:
Fallen star is a great little route, check the tides then for the star area. You can get in there but sometimes the belay ledge can be wet.
Fallen star is a great little route, check the tides then for the star area. You can get in there but sometimes the belay ledge can be wet.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Yup we know the tides up there from previous non-climbing trips in the area. Reminded me to pack a rope bucket at least!!
Stakes or natural belays atop Logie Head?
Yup we know the tides up there from previous non-climbing trips in the area. Reminded me to pack a rope bucket at least!!
Stakes or natural belays atop Logie Head?
Post edited at 09:56
In reply to edmundro:
Not just the tides mate, if the seas are rough you may not get on to the Star Zone / Gully Wall at all
Not just the tides mate, if the seas are rough you may not get on to the Star Zone / Gully Wall at all
Post edited at 09:59
In reply to edmundro:
No stakes at Logie, big slings useful.
Careful at Star Zone top if gulls in residence, they can be aggressive!
At your grade, you might want to give Rising Star a go after doing the others: great wee route and crux well protected.
No stakes at Logie, big slings useful.
Careful at Star Zone top if gulls in residence, they can be aggressive!
At your grade, you might want to give Rising Star a go after doing the others: great wee route and crux well protected.
In reply to edmundro:
Belays on top of Logie are all fine, apart from the bird poo in the summer though! Another venue, but a bit more of a drive, is Redhythe Point which is to the West of Portsoy. Lots of short easy routes with good rock, but the main slab requires an easy traverse for some routes at high tide. It would be about an hours drive from Findhorn though, but not much further along the coast from Cullen (where you park for Logie).
Belays on top of Logie are all fine, apart from the bird poo in the summer though! Another venue, but a bit more of a drive, is Redhythe Point which is to the West of Portsoy. Lots of short easy routes with good rock, but the main slab requires an easy traverse for some routes at high tide. It would be about an hours drive from Findhorn though, but not much further along the coast from Cullen (where you park for Logie).
In reply to jtpj777:
This should be the best time of year to go in terms of lack of bird poo and also nesting gulls.
This should be the best time of year to go in terms of lack of bird poo and also nesting gulls.
In reply to jtpj777:
Cool, got all the slings in the world so should be fine!
Notes about the sea taken on board very seriously as I'm a terrible swimmer!
Saw Redhythe in the guidebook, looks fab too...
Cool, got all the slings in the world so should be fine!
Notes about the sea taken on board very seriously as I'm a terrible swimmer!
Saw Redhythe in the guidebook, looks fab too...
In reply to edmundro:
Tide times for Buckie up to 7 days ahead are here: http://www.ukho.gov.uk/easytide/EasyTide/SelectPrediction.aspx?PortID=0248
Tide times for Buckie up to 7 days ahead are here: http://www.ukho.gov.uk/easytide/EasyTide/SelectPrediction.aspx?PortID=0248
In reply to Mark Bull:
So just before dawn and just after dark to get out onto the Star Zone then
Will keep a close eye on things. At least there's plenty we want to do there that's non-tidal if it's rough!
So just before dawn and just after dark to get out onto the Star Zone then
Will keep a close eye on things. At least there's plenty we want to do there that's non-tidal if it's rough!
In reply to edmundro:
"At least there's plenty we want to do there that's non-tidal if it's rough"
Did you mean that? If I recall correctly and its been a while, the star zone / gully wall is always tidal (so only climbable a few hours around low tide), but if its rough you won't be able to climb on it even at low tide.
Nearly all the remaining good climbs IMO are around the area of the poacher, I can recommend that, sunny side up and cullenary delight.
"At least there's plenty we want to do there that's non-tidal if it's rough"
Did you mean that? If I recall correctly and its been a while, the star zone / gully wall is always tidal (so only climbable a few hours around low tide), but if its rough you won't be able to climb on it even at low tide.
Nearly all the remaining good climbs IMO are around the area of the poacher, I can recommend that, sunny side up and cullenary delight.
Post edited at 11:32
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Poorly phrased, was aware Gully and Star were tidal anyway!
I grew up with playing around at the seaside and cliffs in Dorset and Cornwall long before I started climbing so treat the tides and sea with due respect I can assure you all!!
Poorly phrased, was aware Gully and Star were tidal anyway!
I grew up with playing around at the seaside and cliffs in Dorset and Cornwall long before I started climbing so treat the tides and sea with due respect I can assure you all!!
In reply to edmundro:
If you abseil in, you can climb at the Star Zone at high tide, as long as it's fairly calm (which is often is, being sheltered from the common wind directions (west and south).
If you abseil in, you can climb at the Star Zone at high tide, as long as it's fairly calm (which is often is, being sheltered from the common wind directions (west and south).
In reply to Andy Nisbet:
Cool, will go with my fingers crossed and an open mind as to what we'll climb.
Have been to the Moray Coast nearly every year for the last 10 years in all seasons and always been blessed with a few good days at the very least. Sure we'll have a blast there but added some more non-tidal climbs on my wish list just in case..
Will be there between 21st-27th feb if any locals fancy meeting up? We'll be the obvious Londoners....
Cool, will go with my fingers crossed and an open mind as to what we'll climb.
Have been to the Moray Coast nearly every year for the last 10 years in all seasons and always been blessed with a few good days at the very least. Sure we'll have a blast there but added some more non-tidal climbs on my wish list just in case..
Will be there between 21st-27th feb if any locals fancy meeting up? We'll be the obvious Londoners....
Post edited at 17:47
In reply to edmundro:
I feel that Cummingston is getting a bit of a bad press here. It is regularly used for learn-to-lead courses, and I've seen and taken lead falls without ripping gear. Yes, the sandstone is variable, and some placements inspire more confidence than others, but that is part-and-parcel of the judgement process of trad climbing. To dismiss it as a bouldering and top-roping only venue would seem to me a bit extreme, and out of step with the many climbers who lead there regularly.
I feel that Cummingston is getting a bit of a bad press here. It is regularly used for learn-to-lead courses, and I've seen and taken lead falls without ripping gear. Yes, the sandstone is variable, and some placements inspire more confidence than others, but that is part-and-parcel of the judgement process of trad climbing. To dismiss it as a bouldering and top-roping only venue would seem to me a bit extreme, and out of step with the many climbers who lead there regularly.
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1
In reply to Jamie B: I totally agree with you here and being a regular climber at Cummingston can't see what all the fuss is about regarding leading routes. Not once have I led a route there and thought if I fall here all the gear will rip.
In reply to Jamie B:
Not sure anyone said it was a top roping and bouldering only venue Jamie. As mentioned there are some plum trad lines on mostly good rock with good gear. There are a lot of other somewhat bold climbs with various amounts of dubious rock and some climbs on truly awful rock with very little in the way of gear (and what there is may be very dubious). Such is the nature of soft sandstone IMO. It does tend to be better for bouldering / top roping on the less good quality rock and those activities both seem quite popular.
Not sure anyone said it was a top roping and bouldering only venue Jamie. As mentioned there are some plum trad lines on mostly good rock with good gear. There are a lot of other somewhat bold climbs with various amounts of dubious rock and some climbs on truly awful rock with very little in the way of gear (and what there is may be very dubious). Such is the nature of soft sandstone IMO. It does tend to be better for bouldering / top roping on the less good quality rock and those activities both seem quite popular.
Post edited at 16:43
In reply to CurlyStevo:
As the op it's been interesting to see the debate I accidentally started here, I just wanted to know which rope to take with me!
Can't wait to get up there and see what all the fuss is about...
As the op it's been interesting to see the debate I accidentally started here, I just wanted to know which rope to take with me!
Can't wait to get up there and see what all the fuss is about...
Post edited at 17:30
In reply to edmundro:
Basically everyone is agreeing really. The climbs around left, centre, right are all good on good rock (its quite a small area of rock that, and even then the first few metres are somewhat dubious IMO - that large overhead block you grab low down on centre is coming off one day not in the far distant future). There's probably a few other bits of rock that good and then the rock quality varies from OK down to down right terrible (the Vdiff I lead with crumbing foot holds and not one bit of good gear was certainly much more frightening than the nice VS's I also lead and the guide book advices top roping some areas IIRC). Its quite a small crag really, as is Logie Head.
If you want to experience really good Scottish sandstone trad you really want to head up to the NW IMO. Reiff for example is one of the more extensive lowland crags in Scotland and really good.
Basically everyone is agreeing really. The climbs around left, centre, right are all good on good rock (its quite a small area of rock that, and even then the first few metres are somewhat dubious IMO - that large overhead block you grab low down on centre is coming off one day not in the far distant future). There's probably a few other bits of rock that good and then the rock quality varies from OK down to down right terrible (the Vdiff I lead with crumbing foot holds and not one bit of good gear was certainly much more frightening than the nice VS's I also lead and the guide book advices top roping some areas IIRC). Its quite a small crag really, as is Logie Head.
If you want to experience really good Scottish sandstone trad you really want to head up to the NW IMO. Reiff for example is one of the more extensive lowland crags in Scotland and really good.
Post edited at 17:59
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Bag is packed and ready to leave on Friday morning. Just need the weather to do its magic now..
Thanks again to everyone who took the time to give me advice.
Bag is packed and ready to leave on Friday morning. Just need the weather to do its magic now..
Thanks again to everyone who took the time to give me advice.
In reply to edmundro:
Only managed 3 little routes at Logie Head before the weather set in but throughly enjoyed them. Might pop to cummingston tomorrow but only pottering as my climbing partner/wife had to head home early for work.
Will def be back during summer...
Only managed 3 little routes at Logie Head before the weather set in but throughly enjoyed them. Might pop to cummingston tomorrow but only pottering as my climbing partner/wife had to head home early for work.
Will def be back during summer...
1
In reply to edmundro:
Did Flying Buttress Right on The Stack at Cummingston today with non climbing friends. Got a friend safely up for great views and a fun ab off again.
Eyed up prophet walls and at least a dozen other routes I want to try. Might fly up for a long weekend in the spring.
Did Flying Buttress Right on The Stack at Cummingston today with non climbing friends. Got a friend safely up for great views and a fun ab off again.
Eyed up prophet walls and at least a dozen other routes I want to try. Might fly up for a long weekend in the spring.
In reply to edmundro:
if you are flying up to inverness to climb sandstone just get a hire car and go to Reiff mate honestly! Whilst it is quite nice around the moray firth and the climbing is quite good if limited, the NW is something else!
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=2050
if you are flying up to inverness to climb sandstone just get a hire car and go to Reiff mate honestly! Whilst it is quite nice around the moray firth and the climbing is quite good if limited, the NW is something else!
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=2050
Post edited at 16:20
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