UKC

So I'm after a new mat for an upcoming XC ski trip. Will be used in temperatures probably not much colder than -15C but maybe colder in the future.

On my last cold weather exped in Siberia the guide only had thin silver foam mats lining the tent and that was fine down to -30C outside the tent. It made me think the whole super expensive mat thing was a bit of a con. The thing is my body isn't so happy these days sleeping on 1cm foam mats, so I wanted to upgrade. I had never got one in the past due to worrying about them deflating in the night. I'm guessing it's much harder to insulate air mattresses, which I assume is why they are so much more expensive, and don't really have much experience cold-weathering on one.

I am looking at the Exped range, something like the Synmat 9. Seems durable, and fairly warm. Not cheap, or light though - and doesnt come in a Medium...

Thoughts?

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:
Got the Exped ultralight down mat. It's like sleeping on a bed! Think mine is a medium. I'm 5'10" and it fits fine anyway.

Think it's this one http://www.exped.com/international/en/product-category/mats/downmat-ul-7-m

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Thumbs up for the Downmat7 LW from me. Super warm and comfy. Only problem could be if you get a leak in it, then its useless. Unless you can repair it on tour.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I usually take a multimat (175g) foam mat as well as an inflatable mat. I'm still using a Thermarest Pro Plus (women's which is exactly my size) as havn't been able to justify an upgrade to something like the Exped mats. The combination means more comfort and insurance in case of puncture. Others I know take a full foam and 3/4 inflatable, with a rope or clothes under their legs/feet.

There used to be a really good comparison and writeup about the different mats on this site but I can't immediately find it. But here's a useful listing together with insulation values (but you've probably already seen it!).

http://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/equipment-c3/sleeping-mats-c58/all-s...

Those are my thoughts - hope that helps.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I've used a full lenght ridgerest with an ultralight 3/4 length thermarest on top for well over a decade. Rucksack for the last 1/4 missing of the thermarest. Fine down to -28 which is the coldest I've slept out in.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:
As somebody already mentioned, Something like a downmat alone has no redundancy if you can't repair it in the field. Even if you can, do you want to ever deal with that after a hard day, and by headtorch? With something like the "self inflators" (prolite/prolite plus etc), the foam still gives you some insulation even if it won't hold air.

Beware that the prolite plus can in reality now be a lot heavier than stated. Some packaging still around states 570g for instance for a regular and this can in fact go up to 670g. If you aren't counting grammes then they are excellent even in light of this. I returned one recently due to the weight issue but would have otherwise been very happy with it.

Similar to TobyA, I use and Evazote CCF "karrimat" with a short Thermarest prolite(normal not 'plus') on top. Comes in lighter than any other solution apart from heavy duty quality CCF alone but is a lot more comfortable. It is also somewhat more packable than a fat piece of foam to roll and you can tailor the thickness of the CCF to the conditions and use the comfy mat alone for "3 season" use

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Exped downmat here but they can be a bit leaky and lack durability. Warm though.

In reply to Removed UserRockarch:

I'd second this

If you want comfort get a lightweight inflatable mat, then put a foam mat in there too. However I would put the foam mat under the sleeping bag, and the inflatable mat underneath that. The insulation comes from the foam mat, and the closer it is to your body, the better the insulation. Otherwise you're warming the air in the inflatable mat, which then circulates internally.

In reply to Ysgo:

Thanks Ysgo, good point. Better get the scissors out to trim it all to shape!

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

As others said the combination of a foam matt and a air matt is good. I had a Thermarest matt that collapsed inside, moisture. So no hole in it. Replaced by the shop after the climb. But hadn’t I had a foam matt … then the climbing in Alaska had been a disaster. Bought the yellow foam matt at MEC.
Have used since then an Exped down matt 9 with a foam matt.
Bought when it came out a Thermarest Neoair Extrem, with yellow pump sack works like dream. Lighter then the Exped and noisy.

Never gave it a thought I always slept on the air matt and underneath that a foam matt. I would think that the air wouldn’t cool too much not being in contact with the snow.

But do the other team members a favour don’t buy a wide matt. You may have more privacy but at the cost of the other(s).

For the summit push then I leave the foam matt downstairs.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

No one have any opinions on the Sea to Summit mats?

http://www.seatosummit.com.au/sleepingmats/

Apparently very comfy?

In reply to Ysgo:



With out being able to test it in controlled conditions I would guess either way is pretty much 6 of one half a dozen of the other. Any internal convection would also facilitate the underside of the ccf having a greater temp difference. Any heat bleed from the side wall of an inflatable is perhaps increased the greater the difference in temp between upper and lower. In reality I expect either way round they are much the same.

What does matter is it is very easy to get a self inflator ready while getting out of damp kit/eating/whatever and still being able to lie or sit on the ccf (thin foam doubled or tripled over will keep even bare arse cheeks happy while you get sorted). You can then scoot a short mat onto the foam when it is ready. It can be a lot harder to do it the otherway around and will make you want to pitchfork puppies if trying to do it in a sealed bivi.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I believe the Neoair XTherm has the greatest insulation-to-weight ratio of any mat. I have not used it in cold conditions, so can't give a personal review of it in that regard, but what it definitely is is EXTREMELY comfortable. It is about 6cm thick inflated so you don't bottom out even side-sleeping.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Ok think I'm going to go for the Exped Synmat 7 medium, with a thin foam mat on top. I could always switch it around in camp if it's not working perfectly.

I was worried too about finding space for my mat when travelling, but now I think about it I reckon my mat would roll around and protect my skis during transit perfectly.

Cheers guys. Any more ideas though keep them coming, purchase not been made yet!.

In reply to Ysgo:


With a thermarest where the air is held very stably I've found it makes no difference. Open air mattresses though are completely different, they are really pants in cold conditions (even 5 degrees or below I've found my Alpkit Numo unpleasantly cool. In that case a foam mat on top would make a big difference I think. FWIW I always have my thermarest on top of my Zrest, but probably just because I always have. Works fine though.

In reply to TobyA:

I suspect an open air mattress could actually be worse than just lying on the ground as internal convection could transfer heat from your body over a larger ground area (the entire bottom of the mat).

In reply to TobyA:

I've not done any proper testing, but personally prefer the foam mat on top of the inflatable. As many people have said, it may make no difference, but IMO it can't be colder that way round, which is why I do it.


Depends what sort of T-a-R you're talking about. A self inflating one, then yes. A purely inflatable on (NeoAir) however has huge baffles of air, so will allow loads of circulation.

Someone mentioned Sea to Summit. Looking at them, I'd say they should be pretty effective. Small baffles, so minimal air circulation. Plus the heat reflecting material isn't in the middle like with the NeoAir which allows the top layer of baffles to absorb your heat. I like the idea of the Comfort Plus with it's redundancy if you were to puncture one layer, there's a 'spare'. They look comfy. I'll have to give one a try.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:


I've used one of these as a bed for the best part of a year - very comfy, if a little too warm in the summer months. They come with a little repair kit too, if punctures are a concern (though with this in mind, as well as an inexplicable instinct akin to the 'Cream Tea' debate, I'd prefer to put the foam mat underneath)

In reply to nufkin:
(though with this in mind, as well as an inexplicable instinct akin to the 'Cream Tea' debate, I'd prefer to put the foam mat underneath)

Probably irrational, but I'll tend to put the foam mat on top if I've got pointy things around or plan on cooking inside the tent. If the ground is rocky under the tent/bivi I'll put the foam underneath. I couldn't decide which way was better for warmth, so decided it didn't matter and now go with whatever feels most sensible at the time. I do find a slight comfort advantage with the foam underneath, but not enough to outweigh my pointy things logic!