UKC

I'll be in need of a new harness before too long but my ageing one has a feature that seems as rare as hens' teeth in the current crop of offerings - namely a fifth gear loop, located rear and centre. Am I the only one who finds this a perfect place to hang stuff like screwgates, slings, belay plate, belay jacket, shoes for descent, guidebook, etc etc? Things I won't need to grab for while clinging on by my fingernails but will want when I get to the top? Things I want to carry but don't want getting in the way of my gear, or hanging round the front/sides? What on earth do you four-loopers do with stuff like that if you can't hang it round the back? and why oh why is it so hard to find harnesses with a fifth loop? rant over.

In reply to ripper:

I'm definitely with you on this. I loved my BD Chaos 5-loop harness, and settled for a 4 loop Arc'teryx model when I replaced it. Not done much trad since then, but I did miss the back loop the few times I did.

In reply to ripper:

My harness (BD Aspect) has the fifth loop at the back but I never clip anything to it. The irony?

In reply to ripper:

I regularly use all 7 on my Renegade

In reply to ripper:

I found this to be an interesting read from Andy Kirkpatrick;

http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/cragmanship/view/harness_real_estate_the_rear_g...

tldr: Suggests having gear close to your spine (e.g. 5th gear loop) could significantly worsen the outcome of even minor falls

In reply to ripper:

I just bought a Wild Country Syncro ( http://www.wildcountry.com/en/syncro ). It has 7 gear loops including one centrally at the back.

In reply to ripper:

Depends...

sometimes the 5th or 7th loop is really nice... sometimes 2 or 3 is enough.

Most harnesses that have only 4 loops, either have a "haul loop" or similar that can be used instead of the 5th loop. Simpy by clippin' the spare HMS there... and the the normal crap on that HMS.

Or you can easily jury-rig the 5th loop by tying some prusic cord between the rear loops. Fance peeps might even add a piece of plastic tubing to creata a "loop".

Btw. the reason for 4 loops is quite simple. The loops need to be large enough to be useful... and the 7 loops on my M-sized renegade are a bit too small... So for smaller harnesses they might indeed bee "too small". After all, the crabs, quicdraws and cams are still the same size.

In reply to ripper:

Like you, I find 5 gear loops essential for carrying my far too large but comforting trad rack.

Most British designed harnesses have 5 gear loops, eg DMM, Wild Country. Some of the very latest Arcteryx harnesses do too.

With a few exceptions, more or less everything else has 4 as they're designed for sport climbers who are only carrying quickdraws.

In reply to ripper:

Hang them on the back of the rear loops. Yosemite racking helps if you've got a lot of stuff. Not found 4 loops a problem.

In reply to Mark1800:

I find the six remaining gear loops on a Renegade sufficient... (I do keep prussik loops on the central gear loop though)

In reply to ripper:

I used to have a Troll harness with 5 loops. This consisted of 2 smaller ones placed high, overlapping 2 bigger lower ones, 1 around the back, fantastic. The real beauty of this design, could access rack easily with either hand, nothing was behind you (other than belay stuff around back). Also due to the higher front racks, didn't fall into crotch! Why doesn't other folks adopt this system of loops?

The tie dee belay loop was also simple, brilliant and seldom copied, only DMM comes close!

I currently use a BD Aspect, 4 loops.

Stuart

In reply to HeMa:


Or you can easily jury-rig the 5th loop by tying some prusic cord between the rear loops. Fance peeps might even add a piece of plastic tubing to creata a "loop".

I do just that - bit of cord, bit of plastic tube, couple of knots, Bob's yer Uncle. Have done it to numerous harnesses since the demise of the wonderful Black Diamond "X" harness that came with very many tabs on the harness and lengths of cord and plastic so you could custom the gear loops to perfection.

In reply to ripper:

this 7 loop bad boy is on my shopping list.

http://www.needlesports.com/30209/products/black-diamond-big-gun-harness.as...

I've had a variety of harnesses and found that when I've had smaller lighter sports ones I've just ended up uncomfortable. especially in my earlier years of climbing when bringing up 3 seconds (my mates at the time didnt lead).

In reply to ripper:

I think the more loops you have, the more harness space is wasted with the loops starting and finishing (stitching etc.). 2 either side, with stuff that needs to be visible first, then blind grabbing on the rear loops, makes for a fairly balanced harness in terms of racking, weight distribution and use.

I've found that trying harnesses on of different brands and waste sizes a big variation in terms of how far forward the first loops are.

In reply to robal:

I had jury rigged a fifth loop onto my harness, but reading AndyKP article, now thinking of chopping it.
In technical terms, he knows his shit.

In reply to ripper:

I have a 4 loop Arcteryx but still hanker for 5.

Had a little moan in the Hathersage Outside similar to the OP which produced a rolled eye "what is she going on about" patronising look and snort from the assistant to my mate.....

So I took my custom elsewhere. Still want to find the perfect 5 though.

In reply to cragsman9000:

Also recently purchased this (went into the shop to look at the WC Summit, but found this harness model has replaced it).

The 6 main loops are well placed and easy to use, plus the rear one is handy to have. The overall design is light and comfy too. Really pleased with it. The only minor gripe is that I find when placing a prussik on the leg loop, it ends up a bit too close to the abseil device for comfort (closer than my old harness at least). No big deal though, I just extend the ab.

In reply to ripper:

I've been trying out a Petzl Sitta and found that it's perhaps got a perfect setup. The front gear-loop is 1.5x the size of a gear loop on my old BD Momentum - with a separator in the middle, so it's really two small gear loops joined together. Separator can be slid along to make one bigger than the other if need be.
The rear two gear loops are quite far back, and aren't too big - so get fitted with stuff that I don't need ready access to (mostly slings and belay stuff). It has a haul loop too, but I tend to avoid putting too much stuff on it as per the Andy article linked above.

In reply to SenzuBean:

The Sitta is pretty much... how to old 'Ryx M270 was...

Which in essence had all that was required. 2 big loops on the sides (no moving separator though) and about double the size of normal 'ryx loops (which are actually quite large, say in comparison to my Renegade). And a non stiffened loop at the back for anchors stuff...

In reply to HeMa:



I'm pretty sure I looked at many similar harnesses to the M270 - but the size of the front loops on the Sitta was bigger than any other harness I looked at, from any brand (apart from possibly one weird Mammut Alpine harness). It's hard to describe how useful the separator is, possibly because the difference is very subtle in use - but in my limited experience I don't think it's comparable to existing big front-loop harnesses (such as the green Arc one, which I tried on a few times with a rack on).

In reply to HeMa:

I slid a 10cm stitched sling around to the back of my harness.

Can be moved off centre if required and strong to clip a tag line to.

Have not done it on my latest harness as I realised I had never used the addition on my older one.

In reply to Rob Morgan:

I loved my old Synchro with its 7 gear loops but finally had to replace it after about 10 years. I got a Summit (bought online) but was very disappointed - gear loops, especially the upper ones too far back. Good to hear they've started making the Synchro again - I now couldn't settle for less that 6 gear loops to keep my rack organised!

In reply to Robert Durran:


Interesting... I had about the same idea, when I got the Renegade (7 loops)... But now it seems I can live with 2 loops or in some rare cases 3. And this seems to be the reality with the cheapo sport climbing harness I got a few years back... officially it has 4 loops, but the back ones are far too small to be useful... So all my rack and QDs lives on the bigger front loops and one (spare) HMS in the haul loop and non protection stuff clipped to said HMS (cordlette, prusik & knife, belay device, spare locker or two).

Winter is a bit different, for proper mixed lines... require full rack of screws, cams, pins, hexes and nuts... But even then 4 loops is enough for me (2 big ones and 2 smaller at the back) plus clippers for screws... If I'd use more 60cm alpine draws over the shoulder, I might cope with 3 loops, but I tend to rack even the alpine draws like my normal draws on the loops).

In reply to ripper:

Because 4 is enough in the majority of situations. I find the feeling of gear hanging directly at the centre of my back uncomfortable, especially when it is a bulky obtrusive belay plate. It gets in the way in chimneys and could possibly cause some injury in a fall. I have similar reservations about nut extractors, a very unfortunate name IMO as that is exactly what one of those could do

On the few occasions when I feel as though I need to carry more protection, typically somewhere like Pembroke where a selection of larger nuts/Cams is often required even on harder, thinner routes, I would use a bandolier for the larger items. Too much gear hanging from the waist is also uncomfortable to me.

Al

In reply to GridNorth:


ANYTHING dangling from a bandolier unacceptably irritating!

In reply to Robert Durran:

Horses for courses I usually manage to get my bandolier behind my back out of the way but I agree they can be very annoying and it really is a last resort with me but then I find a cluttered harness even worse.

Al

In reply to Robert Durran:

The new Synchro seems quite different in design to the old one (which I never used), so probably worth trying it before you buy to be sure. On me the loops are far forward enough, but not so much that gear droops in my lap too much when climbing.

In reply to GridNorth:


I use one of those BD vest bandoliers in winter which solves the problem brilliantly.