UKC

Hi all, as I'm mainly a scrambler I have always got by with a set of nuts, four hexes and slings as my rack. But climbing past obvious cam placements on a recent trip to the peak district made me wish I had some!

I've been looking at buying three budget cams i.e. the old wc helium friends or dmm 4cus. Bearing in mind my hexes and current rack, should I get a set of 0.5,1.5,2.5 or 1,2,3?

Thanks

In reply to maxsmith:
Hi Max,

You pose a difficult question to answer. Generally if on grit then cams are mid to bigger sizes. If only three sizes then I would consider last seasons DMM Dragons so you get a larger range per cam as they are dual axle. So in black diamond sixes I would go 0.75, 2 and 3. You have a small gap but cover a good range. The equivalent single axle sixes would be circa 1.5, 2.5 and 3.5.

PS buy the sizes you want not a set mix.

Wayne

In reply to Wayne S:

Thanks Wayne, I climb mainly in north Wales/Wye valley so I'm not looking for grit specific sizes. I only mentioned sets because 4cus in 0.5,1.5,2.5 are available as a set for £84 - I'm guessing these sizes are a bit too small?

I'm also unwilling to pay the extra money for dragons/camalots. I'd prefer to buy cheap to gain experience and then get premium cams at a later date if needed.

In reply to maxsmith:

Buy them all! Ha, that way you'll have a full set before they stop selling them.

But really it's a hard question to answer. I started with the Helium 1, 2 & 3 set, and quickly bought the rest of them as I was finding myself needing the other sizes. I'd probably go with those to start though.

In reply to maxsmith:

Nothing wrong with 4CUs or Helium Friends, and 1.5 - 2.5 - 3.5 would be an excellent range of starter sizes.

In reply to maxsmith:

my 1st cams were WC friends 1, 2 and 3

the DMM 4CUS are great cams to start with, light plus extendable slings. go for it!

bit of a toss up on the sizes probably 1, 2, 3 for me as a start.

hope you enjoy climbing with them

Davey

In reply to maxsmith:

I'd get the 4CUs as they are slightly less prone to walking from personal experience. The previous WC cams with the cable ring at their base seemed to be even more prone to walking than their predecessors because they were longer in length. I've personally found it harder to keep a rope running straight on easy mountain routes because of less need to closely space gear and because routes are more subject to abruptly changing direction. Makes it harder to prevent the rope kinking at gear placements and potentially causing cams to walk as a consequence. I'd get the 4CUs for this reason and make sure you have some slings to extend them in order to keep the rope running in the same direction as best possible.

As to which sizes, get either as you will still have gaps in your camming range whichever.

In reply to maxsmith:

You will use whatever you buy because you will start looking for places to put the gear you have! I wouldn't worry about it too much. Having said that, if you've already got nuts perhaps you don't need little cams quite as much, i.e. start with a friend 1 or 1.5 as your smallest.

In reply to maxsmith:

I've got a few Helium Friends and a couple of Camalots. I'd look around for the Camalots as they have much better range and you could find better placements with less units.
Sizewise, my friends 1&2 and Camalot 0.5 & 0.75 get used most.

In reply to maxsmith:

Just avoid buying the smallest or largest first, it is the mid range sizes you'll use most. One that fits a slot just a bit bigger than a size ten wire/rock would be my first.

In reply to maxsmith:

Possibly controversial, but I'd got for 1.5, 2, 2.5 (or possibly 1-2) if you're mostly doing longer easy routes. These are likely to be the most used sizes, and above this, your existing hexes will probably cover it just as well, or alternative placements often exist, and below this it's likely there'll be just as easy nut placements.

I imagine you're more likely to want the same approximate size multiple times than happen to need exactly a 1, 2 and 3, and assuming you're not cranking off one arm pumped out of your mind and just wanting something to fit the random slot in front of you, having a large range of possible placement sizes shouldn't be as much of a necessity.

I would also go for fewer nicer cams as opposed to more cheaper cams. It sounds like you're not in need of them for a particular route/project/grade and therefore there's no need to splurge on a full rack of stuff you might want to replace sooner.

I'd agree on 4CU's over heliums, but would suggest that 1-2 totems would suit you better for wandering mountain routes - much more flexible and less likely to walk, and stick better in the sandy/polished limestone you can find in the Wye.

After trying to slim down my rack somewhat, I not no longer take my size 3+ (single axle) cams as standard.

In reply to Robin Woodward:
Thanks all, really informative ...

I think I'm leaning towards buying 4cus in 1.5, 2 and 2.5 and covering larger cracks with hexes.

Or would a better option be to buy two dmm dragons in 1 and 2? (which costs a similar amount)

In reply to Robin Woodward:

The totems sound a bit expensive and specialised for what I'm after?

In reply to maxsmith:

I don't know if totems are necessarily specialised (they can be if you're buying them for aiding on two lobes, but I think this is a side feature), but they're definitely expensive. I suggested them for limestone cracks where a totem is more likely to stay in a well used, polished slot, and because they're the least likely to walk if you're placing less gear with more rope wandering (because of the flex), however, as others have said, I'm sure you'll love and place whatever you get. If you've got friends (as in people) with cams I recon having a go with various types on climbs will make you aware fairly quickly of what you like, and what is most useful for you.

In reply to Robin Woodward:
Thanks, sound advice...if I were to buy totems, which two sizes would you reccomend? Also , do the (cheaper) totem basics have any advantage over standard cams in limestone?

In reply to maxsmith:

4CU's are £30 on needlesport and Demon's are £36. They also have some great deals on older model friends (£25) which are still perfectly good.

http://www.needlesports.com/2597/cams.aspx

In reply to maxsmith:
I've pretty new to climbing and got my first cams August last year a set of (now old style) helium friends. I brought a whole set from .5 to 3 (and later a bargain 4) and my larger sizes probably get more use but my .5 seems to be a bloody lifesaver. Always seems to be the one i reach for and go in somewhere when I'm feeling a bit nervous or worried about my gear or cant find a placement. I climb most peak grit. Before i was borrowing a mates dragons and i wouldn't say i feel any worse of using my cheap and cheerful friends. Whatever u get I'm sure you'll use tho.

Just a my perspective as a new guy

In reply to le_quack:

The 0.5 and 0 are great when they fit, you breath a sigh of relief - but they take some skill to place.

On the other end of the spectrum the 3.5 and 4 sizes are great in big cracks where you can't place any nuts.

In reply to TobyA:

I'm with Toby... Camalot sizes .5, .75,1 and 2 seem to get the most use... always...

Followed by 3 ( and then all the small sizes and micros).

In reply to maxsmith:

Thanks guys, I may regret this but I went with Robin and bought two Totem Cams with the intention to finish off the set at a later date.

It's totally the opposite of what I originally intended but I'm a sucker for marketing! I also want to continue refining and improving my nut and hex placements so it's probably no bad thing.

Thanks again all

In reply to maxsmith:

Good choice!
I have a full set of Dragons, and got one Totem 0.8 later. The Totem is far and away my favourite piece of gear. I wish I could afford a full set.
I mostly climb in the Wye valley, and the Totem seems to stick in limestone much better than anything else.

In reply to maxsmith:

Nice one, I doubt you'll regret it. I went down the DMM 4CU route originally, and spent a long time with farrrrr too many cams which I was a little prone to not placing ideally, since the totems I now have a more refined rack which I'm happy is nearly always bomber and will come out just as easy as it went in.

Out of interest, which sizes did you go for? I meant to suggest purple and red or gold and green, but forgot.

In reply to Robin Woodward:

Purple 1 and Red 1.5, apparently the company is in the process of bringing out a larger cam (orange 1.8) and smaller cam (black) to expand their current range..

In reply to Mountain Llama:

I'd go for 4CUs sizes 1, 2 and 3 too. These are £99 for 3 at Joe Brown's and V12.

In reply to IPPurewater:

4CUs are £30 each at Needlesport, so that's £90 for the three!

In reply to treforsouthwell:

Good !