UKC

I'm just wondering how others tend to organise their rack, right now I have my gear split as follows:

- Largest two DMM hexes each on their own crab
- Larger DMM nuts on wire + smaller DMM hexes - one crab
- Standard DMM offsets + larger DMM brass offsets - one crab
- Smaller DMM nuts + larger DMM IMP - one crab
- Smaller DMM IMP + Smaller DMM brass offsets (4Kn+ only) - one crab
- Aide only (2Kn) - one crab [optional, normally leave behind]
- DMM cams (mixed Demon and Dragon) - full set 0, 0.5..to 4 - one crab each
- Screw gate + 2.4m sling x 2 - kept separate
- Mixed slings (60cm, 1.2m, 2.4m) - one crab
- 60cm sling doubled over with pair of wiregates - x 3
- Quickdraws on wiregates x 6 [sometimes borrow extra from partner]
- Nut key
- 2 x HMS screwgates, 2 x small screwgates - clipped together as one
- Screwgate + prussik

So, would you keep offsets separate from normal nuts or mixed per size? Right now I'm keeping them separate until I get down to the small brass and then I'm mixing.

I tend to rack cams back left but keep big gear back right (large hexes and large cams).
I put quickdraws on both sides
Front right for nuts
Front left for offsets
[extra set of nuts or hex on wires front left if I borrow my partners]
Screwgates and slings back right
Belay/nut key rear

Any other systems you find useful?

In reply to treforsouthwell:

Does it really matter? If it works for you, it works. If not, change it!

In reply to treforsouthwell:
Blimey that's a lot of gear!

I move mine round depending on the route eg if it's a lay back pitch I'll put gear on the side away from the rock. Also have gear I think I'll need on the front hoops. On hard stuff I sometimes rack an emergency friend on a quickdraw pre clipped to the rope!

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Especially the screwgates. Why so many? IMO you only NEED 2 (1 for the belay plate and one for the belay) but I carry 3 to make things a little more convenient.

Al

In reply to GridNorth:


One for the belay plate, one HMS for clove hitching the rope to, and then a couple to connect gear to rope with at the belay (e.g. slings from a tree) - I suppose I could just use snapgates but I'm always paranoid!

In reply to treforsouthwell:

Grouped on biners - Small nuts, medium nuts, big nuts, small cams, medium cams, maybe big cams. 2 slings for single pitch, 3 for multi with locker each. Appropriate number of qds/60cm extenders. Hms, belay plate and locker, nut key with bail biner, prussic

In reply to treforsouthwell:

But your list suggests that you carry 7? or at the least 6.

Al

In reply to treforsouthwell:

Personally, I've never got in with racking my gear on a harness. I use it for stuff to use at belays, emergency gear etc. But everything else goes on a bandolier, then it's always to hand or can be swung out of the way when required.

As others have said, the actual racking method is personal and up to you. If it doesn't work, change it until it does!

In reply to GridNorth:


As well as my belay screwgates I also have a few scattered through my rack on slings etc. An extra 4 screwgates instead of snap gates adds 70g to the rack. That's half a cam? Not a problem in my opinion. The weight difference is "did you do a wee before setting off" territory...

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:


Are you sure?

For a big mountain or seacliff route I'd typically carry two sets of normal wires 1 to 7 plus a few bigger, a bunch of miscellaneous micros, a full set of cams up to about Friend 3 plus a few doubles of favourite sizes, a dozen or so draws and a few slings.

And if you add his super detailed list up, that's about what the OP's carrying but with hexes instead of extra cams.

Maybe we're both abnormal. Or maybe he's carrying all that at Stanage.

In reply to treforsouthwell:

Get a bandolier.

In reply to treforsouthwell:
It strikes me as a pretty hefty rack as wel. I make that four krabs with wires on - I have an oval with a set and a half of wires for 90% of the routes. Also each hex, each cam, sling on it's own krab.

I guess everything is personal. I use the same rack of 12 quickdraws for both sport and trad. If it's a trad route I add the wires, some cams, and some bunched hexes/torque nuts. I've stopped carrying tons of cams if I think I can avoid it as I'm pretty fat and need to keep the rack weight down to compensate. Slings are round the neck, but without krabs attached.

In reply to Morgan Woods:


Don't. Learn Yosemite racking if you want/need to take that much kit. Bandoliers are (IMO) the most unwieldy things ever designed. Hard to get gear off and add weight in the wrong place - your upper body.

In reply to treforsouthwell:

And 7 screw gates is probably overkill.

In reply to AlanLittle:

I think it's more that I carry very little gear.

Normally I carry one set of nuts, 4 hexes, 3 cams, 5 QDs and three slings. That's about it even on sea cliff multi pitch. Might have something to do with not having money for any more kit!

In reply to climbwhenready:

It's not just the weight though. Screwgates take up more space and you have to do the screws up, perhaps at a time that is not convenient. I changed my old Wild Country krabs for DMM Phantoms and found that I could get 2 additional krabs on each gear loop.

Weight saving is one of those things that you have to be serious about when alpine climbing. 70grms may not sound much but 70 here and 70 there soon adds up. Only carrying what you need is a good discipline to get into but you should of course carry what makes you comfortable.

Al

In reply to ianstevens:


Totally agree - bandoliers are a nightmare swinging and dangling all over the place (unless you get one of those vest ones with a loop on each side). Get a harness with enough gear loops to keep things organised (ie at least seven such as the Wild Country Synchro) - works for me with a bigger rack than you carry.

In reply to treforsouthwell:

I wouldn't have thought that amount of screwgates was overkill: Your rack sounds quite similar to mine. I've got 3 or 4 slings of varying sizes, each with a screwgate, 2 HMS-style ones (one for belaying because I often climb on half ropes, one for clove hitches), and about 2 extra ones for belays. I do a lot of multi-pitch and I've got nothing that's proved to be superfluous. Besides, I'd rather have too much gear than not enough.

I rack mine according to size. I've got three snapgates with all of my wires on: small, medium and large. I've got all my offsets mixed in with the others. My micro wires and micro offsets are all together in what I call my slate kit.

But yeah, find a system you like and stick with it. I've got a particular system for racking gear on my harness: gear on the right side, extenders on the left; small stuff towards the front and bigger stuff (or longer extenders) towards the back. I know exactly where to reach for when I'm placing gear on a route. Works like a charm

In reply to ianstevens:


After trying all sorts of bandoliers, I now use an 8mm tied rope sling.

Only put on it what I probably need to get at quickly on the next pitch, usually wires if leading.
Seconding, all the removed gear goes onto the bandolier ready for sorting at the next stance.

In Yosemite, a load of gear on the wrong side of your harness, would be a disaster on a lot of corner cracks.
( there are a lot of corner cracks in Yosemite. )

I would use a wider bandolier in the Valley, or two clipped together to reduce the chance of losing them in a head first lob.

In reply to Lornajkelly:
As I said you must carry what you feel safe with but why do you feel the need for more than 1 screwgate on a belay? And IMO even that would only be strictly necessary if the anchors are out of sight. Gear choice also depends upon the grade and style of climbing that you do. I stack my nuts, ooh er missus, on both sides as you don't always know which hand will be free to place one but that would probably only apply once you get into the E grades. In the UK the place where I tend to carry the most gear is Pembroke and extra screwgates can be handy for setting up abseils etc. but on a route I have 1 x small HMS for the belay plate, 1 x huge HMS for the anchor and 1 x small screwgate for convenience when setting up abseils etc.

To the OP: I looked at your profile. If you can get all that gear into routes in the Avon Gorge and Wintours Leap you are doing well and you must tell me the secret.

Al

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

>On hard stuff I sometimes rack an emergency friend on a quickdraw pre clipped to the rope!

Good idea. Has it ever caught the rock going up

In reply to Ban1:

Thanks. Yeah it can do so I tend to only do it for short sections. It's really useful on hard sections that you need to place gear on, so much faster and faff free.

In reply to GridNorth:
>.......but why do you feel the need for more than 1 screw gate on a belay?

The use of screw gates on all pieces when building an anchor seems to be standard practice these days in the UK for training / instruction....as far as I can see. I've just had a quick look on tinternet and it's shown in many UK instruction videos, as well as some rope work books. Funny though, doesn't seem to be the done thing in the US.

I always try to use screw gates. The Wild Country Neo/Ion weigh next to nothing, so why not? carry them as a biner on a coupler of your extenders and keep them till last.

In fact, I believe they're so light that every additional Ion reduces your rack weight by 500g!

In reply to treforsouthwell:

Don't you just take enough quickdraws for the bolts?

In reply to treforsouthwell:
As others have said, it's entirely up to you.

I would give your DMM hexes their own crabs - the whole point of the extensible sling (longer on the hexes than the cams) is so you don't normally need a quickdraw.

Don't double your 60cm slings with crabs, use Alpine draws (slingdraws). They are handy on threads/small trees as well where you can use both crabs back-to-back for extra security (never pass a thread!).

I carry quite a few (very light!) screwgates but that's a discussion that's already been done to death...

In reply to GridNorth:


Wyndcliffe has longer routes, up to 40m single pitch which often means you need two sets of nuts.

Wintours is variable on the route.

I haven't tried Avon Gorge yet, I must admit it seems less appealing after hearing about traffic noise and difficult runouts!

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Ding ding...


OP, ditch the big hexes, small hexes and big nuts (unless you're absolutely sure you'll use 'em).

Mix the normal -sized nuts to two biners (one per side). So when you pick either set of nuts, you'll prolly get the correct size (rack so that one is per side). Oh, and when you fumble one set of nuts down the crag, you haven't lost all small-to-medium or medium-to-big sized nuts.

Micro nuts on a separate biner.

Cams, one biner per cam.

Add QDs, extenders and gear for anchors...


As for rackin' I put the nuts in the front, followed by QDs. Then cams starting from small sizes. After the big cams, I put the extenders and special gear (like micro nuts), lastly it's the gear for anchors, rappelling, belaying and so on.

In reply to treforsouthwell:

I've climbed most of the routes in the area over the years. At the two main venues, Avon and Wintours, there are very few routes that will take hexes and if I am honest I do not fully trust cams in the local limestone.

Al

In reply to GridNorth:


I've used hexes at Wintours, mainly on the Flywall (The Split, Butterfly etc) and they work quite well especially if cammed.

They also work quite well at Wyndcliff

In reply to GridNorth:

I was taught to have screwgates on everything in a belay. Two or three pieces in an anchor, two or three pieces in the anchor at the top of the next pitch. I don't usually carry them all unless I'm doing multipitch routes.

And, yeah, I don't climb that hard. With the sort of routes I do the holds are big enough that you can have a bit of a sit down and a rest while you're placing gear.

In reply to treforsouthwell:
Hi you always were going to risk a string of posts how x climbed E something with five nuts two quickdraws and some bailing twine. All things are personal and the good advice was to carry what makes you comfortable whilst always trying to trim a little. I agree that loosing screwgates is worth considering, back to back snap gates can get you by if you run out anyway. I tend to carry three phantom screwgates plus a bigger one on belay plate. That said I tend to climb on skinny half ropes and would prob take bigger for a single rope.

So to give some food for thought re racking:
Split nuts up so if you fumble a full crabs worth you can still get out of a fix, colour code wires to racking biner for faster sorting. Personally I no longer carry hexes, but wires upto 14 and cams. Doubles of wires up to no8 ish depending on climb. Small gear at front, larger on back loops, that said bring larger gear to front on route if a pending crux/section dictates.
You need to be able to remove gear one handed and place, whilst this sounds obvious I'm sure I read above about slings over shoulder with no crabs? For me slings (120cm) live twisted on a screwgate on rear loops. 60 cm as slingdraws. Any bigger requirement at belay use the rope!

Know where your gear is on your harness including making the effort to return misread sizes to original position when you can.

Wayne

Thanks for all the comments, it doesn't sound like I'm doing anything too unusual then.

Trimming gear is something I know I should work on, but for climbing VS grades I'm more concerned with runouts than actually being able to climb the route (I'm starting to be able climb 6b sports outdoors now).

In reply to treforsouthwell:

Just carry as much as you enjoy carrying is my advice. If more weight on your harness isn't affecting your enjoyment then why change?

Here's a link to a good article on racking...

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/on-the-rack

In reply to Wayne S:



That's a cracking tip. Might start doing that actually. I've got at least two of everything except the tiny stuff (technically I've got two of those as well but one is offset which doesn't really count) so I could do this with ease

In reply to treforsouthwell and others: A few thoughts specifically about wires:

I generally climb with the fairly standard arrangement of three krabs of wires - SMALL, MEDIUM and LARGE.
[FWIW, this generally includes a full set of DMM Wallnut and DMM Alloy Offsets, some larger WC Superlight Rocks and DMM Peanuts, plus a larger hex (WC Rockcentric 6) on wire.]

- My micro wires (DMM Brass Offsets) are on a separate small accessory krab, but quite frankly I rarely carry them unless on very particular routes or rock types. They don't weigh much but I find harness space is always at a bit of a premium so I find the common justification of carrying them 'just in case' rather unconvincing.
- I much prefer climbing with my Alloy Offsets mixed in with the rest.
- I also much prefer everything ordered by size. The argument of having a full size range on two or more krabs for UK rock climbing has always struck me as bogus, if not verging on slightly pretentious.
- I do NOT like the large Wild Country Rocks (sizes 12-14) so I generally carry a wired hex in that range instead (and rarely carry any other hexes on tape/cord when rock climbing).

I'm normally fairly relaxed about climbing on partners' racks but there are a couple of things I really don't like:
- Krabs with too many wires. With medium/large wires, more than 8 starts to prove awkward.
- Small wiregates as racking krabs. I'm not too fussy and there are various styles of krab that work well but a tiny minority seem to make really strange choices.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
There are some marmite gear choices, large wires over hexs is one and oval carabiners for wires perhaps another. The large wires for me come in to their own on peak limestone. Hexs are perhaps better on grit but then I would prob take an extra cam nowadays.

But as per the rather good bmc article, select the gear you need for a particular route and rack that, don't take it just because you own it. You never need just in case gear unless it's the biggest cam left in your rucksack!