UKC

I need a new compass, is the extra cost of a type54 worth it should I settle for aa bog standard type4. Also, I'll be doing my ML training next spring, will I be expected to navigate accutately with a non-sighting compass ?

In reply to Mark Harrison: £60 for a compass just seems a tad excessive! Esp since I went through a phase a couple of years ago of breaking about 2 in one year! I now have a silva one in a sturdy plastic case ( I can't see on the R+R website) which appears to be pretty indestructable, it doesn't have any fancy bits but you can navigate with it which is all you need.

In reply to Mark Harrison:
Go for something basic. The 'extras' you get with the expensive ones aren't worth it for general use. As for a sighting compass, if you take one to your ML training you'll almost certainly be the only one to have one. I'd be surprised if they didn't let you use it though.

In reply to Mark Harrison:

i run lots of nav courses and wgl trg courses and find type 4 to be the best, keep it simple, i am not keen upon anyone using any other as it complicates the nav.

In reply to Mark Harrison: I’ve got a Recta Elite Sport Global that I’m using and its really good. Not to bad price wise either, about £26 I think.

It comes with adjustable declination and an inclometer (sp?), besides the usual features

In reply to andy wa: to impose your preferred choice of compass on everyone who attends your navigation courses is ridiculously narrow minded. there are lots of very good basic compasses and many which are better than the type 4.

I suggest you broaden your horizons e.g. I use a suunto M3 which is superb. It has all the roamers needed, luminous markings, automatic declination whereby one can eliminate the need to add / subtract the mag. variation, and more importantly an easier to handle bezel than all the silva compasses which are difficult to rotate with winter gloves on. It is also slightly smaller than the type 4 which is more convenient as well. If you need to take a bearing which uses the whole length of the type 4 compass then you're not splitting the leg up into more managable chunks.

The M3 is highly recommended and did me well during my ML and a google search will put you onto a supplier.

In reply to yer maw: I would not use a 54 on the hill, a bit of overkill,fiddly and expensive. I have one, but I only use it for mapping, and bought it a long time ago.

The type 7, the smallest cheapest Silva is all you need, unless you require the magnifying glass on one of the bigger models.

In reply to Mark Harrison: good thing about sighting compass is
1. accuracy
2. fablon naismith chart on lid for ML stuff
3. miror good for wash kit to shave etc'
4. lid locks bearing in winter when busy and cant remember it and put compass in pocket and accidently move bezel.

otherwise get expedition 4 thing.

the suunto m3 is indeed a good compass. but have you ever tried to buy one. they are like rocking horse poo. rather rare in this country. i chose the silva type 4 because its avialible in most highstreet outdoor shops.

In reply to Mark Harrison: Whatever you get take a spare and for ML probably best to have two , one in the top of your sack and one on a long cord to a chest pocket on your waterproof for use in crap weather and night nav.
For pacing stick a few toggles on the string to remember your counting

In reply to Mark Harrison:

I would expect you'll be expected to navigate accurately.

In reply to Mark Harrison:
as above simple base type is perfectly adequate, although I must admit that I carry a sighting compass, as it protects the bezel, holds the bearing and err is useful for shaving! re ML, by assessment you'll be expected to locate your position to within 50-100 at all times, but how stringently this is tested depends upon your assessors. Perhaps more importantly, you should be able to justify why you think you are where you are and explain your reasoning, and know what tactics to use to get yourself back on track when uncertain of position. Some I saw on training would not have been able to look after themselves effectively on the hill, let alone a group... but then again it was a training course, so hopefully they benefitted greatly...

In reply to JemC: aye accuracy needs to be within 10%, no conferring allowed and even when it isn't your leg you are expected to know where you still are. only trust your own navigation as some people can give the impression they are shit hot, yet are all over the place which makes things difficult.
I found pacing harder to master and so made up a little card with times for distances and speeds so as not to have to calculate it in my head and it fits in the corner of the map case.
note that days spent climbing mountain routes e.g. on Beinn A Bhuird or Lochnagar do not count as quality mountain days, and neither do winter days count for the summer ML. This was a real bone of contention for me as I hadn't accrued enough quality summer walking days (I'm not a munro bagger) according to these criteria, yet my navigation etc. was spot on. The river crossing section is also a bit dumb and I think they are reviewing that for change in the future.
it's a great experience though and one award they certainly don't give away.

In reply to yer maw:

where did you do yours? I was told at PYB they did count, but there always seems to be confusion over log book requirements.

In reply to squeekz:

I was told the same when I did mine, also that 'mountaineering' climbing routes counted since you're spending a full day in the mountains with all that entails.

In reply to squeekz: consistency is a brilliant thing isn't it? I did mine through the Scottish MLTB and the assessors were first class, highly rated and following the guidelines as per the book, which upon reading I still felt it was a bit harsh. Possible problem is the amount of time spent walking (min 6 hours) as oppossed to climbing for it to be a quality mountain day. The fact that winter days didn't count was I felt the worst part as one could argue these are more challenging.

If in doubt and if I was to do it again, I'd make up the shortfall in the log book by inventing days out. I did pass though and this was thanks to my experience, if you invent days without the experience then you will be found wanting in your skills.

I have a silva compass and recently its started to play up. Sometimes the needle wont settle in the right place and keeps moving about. Also the white end of the arrow points north now, and i think it used to be the red end. Unless there's been a polar shift (due in a few hundred thousands years?), then i recon its been magnetized by something. Clearly I am a compass novice, in need of technical magnet help.

In reply to hang 'em high: My Sumto reversed polarity on a flight home. Just get a powerful magnet and smoothly and quickly stroke it along the length of the needle (along rear of casing. Took me a few goes but it's been fine since.

In reply to Mark Harrison:

The most challenging aspect of ML Assessment for most people is night nav, and a sighting compass will not sight in the dark. You are better off saving your money and buying a cheaper recta compass. I can't remember the model but there is one with a huge maginifying glass, which is invaluable when navigating in a 'craggy' area on 1:25000 map.
A lot of compasses are damaged by storing them under the stairs next to the electricity meter.

In reply to Mark Harrison: I have a Type 3 that I had used for everything, but bought a type 4 after my ML training because it was the type they reccomended. It is easier to use for micro stuff on 125,000 maps. On the assessment however we were expected to know where we were from looking at the map and pulling out a compass on every ocasion was frowned upon. Apparently only 25% of people who do the ML training go for the assesssment.

In reply to Mark Harrison:

Hi

Many thanks to everyone who posted suggestions. I think I'll be going for something like a type 4.

Cheers
Mark