UKC

Anyone know what the strongest available krab is when cross-loaded (at reasonable prices)? The DMM Ultra O clocks in at 12kN, which seems pretty good as their steel O and the Petzl OK are both only rated to 10kN on the minor axis. Anything better than that?

In reply to humptydumpty:

Grivel Mega Twingate comes close at 10kN, which is pretty good for an HMS. Wondering what you need it for?

In reply to SenzuBean:

Thanks, 10's definitely less than 12 though. Needs to be big enough to take a clove hitch from a 10mm rope.

Also I'm aware maillons are probably stronger than locking krabs, but not so good as they'd be fiddly to undo and do up repeatedly.

In reply to humptydumpty:

Why do you need to cross load a crab???

I'm most intrigued!

In reply to humptydumpty:


I know it's less, but it's also got better gate-open strength


Still wondering what application you've got in mind where cross-load strength is most important? A clever use of slings might get you up past the 20kN mark.

In reply to humptydumpty:

The 30kN variant of the DMM Boa is 12kN on the minor axis:
http://www.v12outdoor.com/product.php/5369/dmm-boa-i-beam-30kn-screwgate-ca...

Or the CT Pillar Oval Steel SG is 15kN on the minor axis:
http://www.v12outdoor.com/product.php/6374/ct-pillar-oval-steel-sg

In reply to humptydumpty:

Steel industrial/rope access climbing carabiners. Often 50kn correctly loaded and 15kn cross loaded and 12-25 kn with gate open.

Inexpensive, but heavy as hell. If you have a situation with loads of loads from differnent directions; use a rigging plate.

In reply to humptydumpty:

Petzl Omni is rated as 15kn in any direction but is also for a more specific use than some of the others mentioned.
https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Carabiners/OMNI#.V1bfSkvZX1o

In reply to EddInaBox:

Thanks, CT Pillar is a good shout.

To all the folks wondering why I want to cross-load... I don't, but it's always a possibility.

In reply to humptydumpty:

What were you thinking of using this biner for?

In reply to humptydumpty:

How about normal krabs and a riggin' plate. Like this... http://dmmprofessional.com/products/x-small-bat-plate-rig-xs-or/

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Hi Stevo, I want a krab to clove hitch a single rope into, then clip it into my harness. The krab needs to take a factor 2 fall, and I don't want it breaking if it accidentally cross-loads.

In reply to HeMa:

Interesting - never known what a rigging plate was actually for. Is that one rated to 36kN in all directions? Not sure it will fit my purpose as I can't tie a clove hitch to it.

In reply to humptydumpty:

Some kind of basic self belaying I assume?

In reply to humptydumpty:

If its clove hitched tightly then i wouldve thought your best bet would be one of these:

http://www.needlesports.com/3521/products/dmm-belay-master-2-keyhole-screwg...
http://www.needlesports.com/3521/products/dmm-belay-master-2-keyhole-screwg...
http://www.needlesports.com/30388/products/ocun-condor-screwgate-belay-kara...

as long as thought the hitch is right and tight I cant see it moving around too much, you could tape it in place to stop it wandering but by the time the force is applied there is no danger of the knot moving.

either that or double up and oppose your crabs...

In reply to humptydumpty:

You still need to use krabs on them holes... The idea is however, that one krab per hole means none of the krabs are crossloaded...


Here's a pic to give ya an idea...
http://treetools.co.nz/Blog%20Pics_1/D/DMM/Rigging%20Hubs/Bat-XS-bridge.jpg

In reply to HeMa:

what stops the biner slipping around and crossloading on the bridge its self.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Tension... and shape of the biners (ovals are the best, followed closely by offset D, HMS night gut).

In reply to humptydumpty:

have you considered using something like a bely master 2 that prevents cross loading?

In reply to HeMa:

Yeah I think the OP's usage may not always have tension in the rope

In reply to CurlyStevo:

MIght not...

Which is why the biners are also important... as in ovals tend to self-orientate quite well, provided the gate doesn't snag... and something like 50/50 from Austria Alpin would solve that problem as well...

http://www.austrialpin.at/AustriaAlpin/files/ff/ff42d508-d673-46d1-8cbf-8ba...

In reply to CurlyStevo:

It's not a bad idea, but I think there's still a risk of turning, or the plastic thing getting dropped etc.

As robal suggests, perhaps doubling up on krabs is a good idea.

HeMan, tension is not guaranteed!

In reply to HeMa:
Seems to me that this plate is just an unnecessary extra. As another poster linked above this seems a cleaner solution to me.

http://www.needlesports.com/30388/products/ocun-condor-screwgate-belay-kara...

Also it does seem likely that if a factor 2 fall is possible that the rope won't always be under tension.

In reply to humptydumpty:

see the ocun condor the safety wire on that opens inwards so would be highly unlikely to move out of the ideal position.

In reply to CurlyStevo:


That's good - all the clever krabs like this I've seen in the flesh have had the flicky gate backwards, so it's hard to put things into the basket at the bottom, but really easy to get them out.

That said I think I'm still looking for a very strong locker.

In reply to humptydumpty:

If I recall correctly Wren (or whoever makes it these days) have some quite specific recommendations what to use to attach a Silent Partner to a harness. You might want to see if you can find the instructions for that.

In reply to humptydumpty:
Personally I'd probably use either a BD Gridlock Magnetron or a DMM Belaymaster and have some sort of back up.

However if you want something super strong and utterly secure then you have two slightly conflicting requirements.
If you are really worried about failure when cross loaded you need look for something that meets the ANSI specification (IIRC 3600 pounds cross loaded which standard screwgates DO NOT meet). There are various options from DMM's industrial range.
That said there is also the possibility of the gate coming open, in which case it might be more prudent to go for a '4-way' locking gate mechanism. Both DMM and ISC do these, although that might be being too paranoid.
One other thing to consider is that many carabiners are available with a captive bar option for permanent (or at least long term) attachment to harnesses which eliminates or at least vastly reduces the chance of cross loading in the first place.

Anyway, the DMM ANSI Locksafe 30kN Boa (captive bar option available) might be the closest thing to what you're asking for and is probably worth a close look - http://dmmprofessional.com/products/boa-30kn-ansi-locksafe-a907ansi/

In reply to humptydumpty:

How about this bad boy?

https://www.dicksclimbing.com/collections/karabiners/products/dmm-ultima-sc...

Rated to 38kN so unless you are quite literally an African Elephant you'll be OK.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:


I'd agree that's a bigger worry. The UIAA maximum for impact force from a rope is 12kN anyway, so worrying about strengths much higher than that seems academic.

So with that said, two back-to-back DMM Ultra O's would be my goer

In reply to humptydumpty:

This is a funny looking thing:
https://www.dicksclimbing.com/collections/karabiners/products/petzl-ring-op...

In reply to humptydumpty:

I like the thread dance. Op refuses to give a clear picture of why he needs to cross load a carabiners because he knows a load of people will come in and offer a different solution if he does.

Nothing to add, I just find forums funny sometimes.

In reply to neuromancer:


True... but of course the most obvious way was forgotten... remove the darn krab and tie on directly .

In reply to humptydumpty:

I am also hesitant to reply as I also suspect there is a much better way of doing whatever the OP plans...

But using a suitably-strong maillon would work (they can't really crossload).