UKC

Hi,

I'm after a short rope to belay down (or up) a less confident scrambler. Would something like a 7-8mm static cord do the trick, or should I stick to dynamic rope?

Thanks!

In reply to phja:
Not sure why you would, using static has far less safety built in. I know a fall of 1 meter sufficient to break static tape so errors or falls potentially fatal.

Have you looked at the short and light option of a confidence rope, about 30 meters?

In reply to phja:

Something like this maybe?

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/hiking-rope-75-mm-x-30-m-id_8338026.html

In reply to phja:

Thanks for the replies. Dynamic it is then That hiking rope looks ideal thank you!

In reply to phja:

If you're not using it for leading, only for bringing up seconds on a tight support rope, there is an argument that static could be better (most people still use dynamic).

The main problem with the cord is it can be hard to grip at that diameter. A 9+ mm rope would be better.

Many people use either a 30m section of half rope or one of the newer triple-rated ropes such as the Beal Joker.

In reply to Ron Rees Davies:

I tend to use my 10mm 30m wall rope- as recommended here!

http://www.blueperis.co.uk/uploads/documents/1-84-6-1443-1-ML-Assessment-Fu...

In reply to Aztec Bar:

Why does this get 3 dislikes? If you don't agree with it say so, perhaps we might all learn something.

In reply to Aztec Bar:
Your statement contains inaccuracies.
How does low stretch rope have less safety built in when it has the similar minimum breaking load and safeworking load as dynamic rope and cord of the same diameter (except aramid) . Certain typesof static sewn sling shouldnt be used in a situation where they can be shock loaded eg. Used as a belay or cowstail where slack can be present.
The OP is asking for advice on a scrambling rope usedfor toprope or lowering use only not leading.

In reply to Aztec Bar:
I agree that dynamic rope is better for scrambling you really can't predict all the ways a rope could get loaded and a factor two is even possible. The OP seems to be thinking they will always be on the higher ground, but this may not be so in some worse case examples and not in the general case of a traverse.

However I can't see what point you are making regarding:
"Not sure why you would, using static has far less safety built in. I know a fall of 1 meter sufficient to break static tape so errors or falls potentially fatal."

9mm static ROPE often has a STRONGER breaking strength than 9mm dynamic rope, the main issue of course is the impact force on the climber (and protection) in higher factor falls.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Thanks, we could go on with discussion but reasoning is more helpful than just pressing 'dislike'
I just think dynamic rope is ultimately safer.

In reply to Aztec Bar:
I didn't press dislike (however I reserve the right to)

Dynamic rope is safer for the application of scrambling but not really for the reason you mentioned. Ofcourse dynamic rope will be absorbing the force of any fall over a longer period of time so I would expect the max force to be less on the dynamic rope. However you are unlikely to generate enough force on the static rope (of at least 9mm) that you would break it in the absence of a sharp edge, more likely the protection or climber will break.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Also, static rope is not static. If it meets EN1891 (it will if you buy it in a climbing or caving shop), it'll be stretchy enough to be ok up to about a fall factor 0.3 fall. So leading is out, but even without the world's most on the ball belayer top roping should be fine.

Tape is different, obviously, and dyneema is different to nylon. I imagine Aztec Bar was most likely referring to the video that DMM (?) brought out a wee while ago to show how seriously dyneema slings are weakened by having a knot tied in them. Completely irrelevant to a discussion about ropes.

In reply to deepsoup:
Sure static rope is really semi static.

I thought the same about the DMM video.

In reply to phja:

Rope. Worth asking around, lots of people damage half ropes under foot and over edges to be left with short, serviceable off cuts.
jk

In reply to deepsoup:

Personally even if the op thinks the rope will only be needed in a top roping scenario, for the reasons I mentioned previously I would not advise it for scrambling over a dynamic rope.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

If 'belay' means the use of harnesses and belay devices etc., then I would certainly agree with you.

For short-roping, body belays, direct belays over spikes and that type of thing, I think it's less clear cut. On the downside semi-statics tend to handle less nicely and be less 'knottable' than dynamic ropes, on the up side the sheath is generally tougher and more abrasion resistant. In this case I would say the amount of 'stretch' in the rope is largely moot.

Good call above to use a short undamaged bit of someone's trashed half-rope I think.
A 'wanted' post on here (for nowt, or a small donation to MRT) would probably produce a few offers.
Subject to the usual caveats. (ie: If you use second-hand rope, you are going to DIE! It has probably been stored in a big tub of bleach wrapped around an old car battery! Aaaaargh!! etc...)

In reply to deepsoup:

Whilst a static rope may be better than nothing it simply is not the right choice for a scrambling rope imo. You can't be sure a high factor fall won't occur. Indeed when roped together a very high factor fall is possible (greater than factor 2). Maybe you can link an article advising a static rope may be better as all the ones I'm reading either say to use a dynamic rope and or caution against static!

In reply to phja: semi static strikes me as a very bad idea for short roping,, or small sections of body belaying. The moment theres any slack in the equation a fall becomes bad news.

Surely for most people a section of old rope is easier to get

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Nope, no can do. For two people moving together, as you say, a very high factor fall is possible so you are clearly quite right to say it would be essential to have a dynamic rope for that.

It's not something I've ever contemplated doing with a confidence rope for scrambling, I've only used one to bring up a nervous 'second' through the odd particularly difficult or exposed section and took the OP to be suggesting much the same. If moving together is something that folk are likely to be doing I'm more than happy to wind my neck in and stand corrected.

In reply to deepsoup:
I think it depends if the OP really wants to use the rope as a confidence rope really for meant for use on Mountain Leader sort of terrain perhaps ok for the easiest scrambles but mainly for walks etc or a scrambling rope which would be suitable for grade 2 and 3 scrambles where the dynamic properties of the rope would be a more important factor in choosing it.

Bare in mine even if you aren't moving together on harder scrambles, the second would still probably want to tie on to the rope when the 'leader' sets off (on the roped sections) and not only can it not be guaranteed that the leader will not fall (possibly in a high fall factor scenario), also on traverses high factor falls can occur for the second. With a semi static rope not only would the forces be higher on the falling climber but the peak forces on the belay higher too making the falls harder to hold and protection more like to fail. I think grade 3 scrambling often is climbing really, grade 2 is middle ground, but its not that unusual for parts of the scramble to potentially involve moves where a fall could go a way before you hit something.