UKC

I'm struggling to decide what sort of inner is appropriate to clip my chalk bag to my gear loop. Does it have to be rated or will something like the Black Diamond Micron do?

Can anyone suggest some models I can buy easily in the UK without paying through the nose!

In reply to rhysowen:

Any biner will do. I always prefer to attach it separately from my harness with a piece of cord round my waist. It's easier to pull it round to left or right depending on which hand is being chalked or getting it out of the way when in a chimney etc.

In reply to rhysowen:

A non rated karabiner will be fine as long as you only use it to clip on a chalk bag. Do not use it as a climbing karabiner.

In reply to rhysowen:
Any small non-climbing-rated karabiner would do. Most gear shops will have a tub full of them near the tills.

In my opinion, though, its best to use a separate belt for a chalk bag. This allows you to wear the chalk bag on its own without the harness; and means the bag hangs better and is easier to access. I use a loop of accessory cord that tightens with a sliding fisherman's knot.

Edit: Another reason not to use a krab is that, since a chalk bag is best worn centrally, a karabiner located there can cause injuries in a fall. See Andy Kirkpatrick's blog http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/cragmanship/view/harness_real_estate_the_rear_g...

In reply to andyjohnson0:

>> loop of accessory cord

Same here. Makes it easier to have the bag on one side if you need to, and means you've got a spare bit of load-bearing string for emergencies. That, and you don't end up with a crab in a position where it's going to jab right into your back when you fall off and land on it.

In reply to andyjohnson0:

Spot on. It always gives me the shivers when I see folk using a crab to hold on their chalk bag, nomatter how small.

Edit: problem solved - use this: http://www.rockrun.com/rock-run-chalk-bag-belt-20mm?gclid=CLe4td-I4c0CFfMW0...

In reply to Fraser:




Nooooo! Not a belt, after my loss. Abbed into do Fifth Appendage at Lundy. Arriving at the ledge 10 feet above the sea, as I got off the ab rope encumbered by the rack + a climbing rope around my shoulders I noticed a moment too late the buckle on me chalk bag belt had come undone. A flailing grab which nearly had me in the drink failed to catch it and it slipped inexorably into the swell where it floated for a while, leaving a trail of milky water as it headed out to sea, bound for America. There's worse to come - not only had I that very morning filled it but also - a yet more expensive loss - the guide book was rolled up in it (slim guide book in those days, lest you think I had a chalk bag the size of a rucksack)!

Total losses: belt £3; bag £8; chalk £2; guide book £15. Would be more today.

From then on I've hung my chalk bag (NOT with a crab) on a length of at least 6mm cord tied around my waist which can double as ab tat in an emergency. Bag is mobile, weight is minimised and I have a bit of emergency kit to boot. Job done.

In reply to Fraser:

Another +1 to that.
But also another +1 to the suggestion above, that it's daft to use a belt when you could just as easily use a bit of load bearing string instead - why carry something with only one use when you could have something with many possible uses instead? You never know when an extra bit of ab tat or a small prusik loop might be handy.

In reply to Fraser:

Prefer Wingnut's and my piece of cord idea. More verstatile

In reply to Martin Bennett & others:
I agree, cord is more versatile and indeed used some for a while for my own chalk bag. But in 20 years of climbing I've never needed to use such a bit of cord in such a manner. I also found the extra faff of tying and untying a pain, compared to the simple clip of a belt, which I usually slide round to one side to keep it out of the way.

In reply to Fraser:


I use a loop cord with a fixed eye loop on one end, and the other end through this with a big stopper knot and a sprung toggle to do it up. Quicker than a buckle, but still a comfy cord than can be used for emergency tat / prusiks.

In reply to rhysowen:

Not to be a tosser and treat this like a serious issue, but some arguments against cord and for a buckled belt:

Way easier and quicker to put on and take off - approx. 2 seconds versus 8 seconds for a double granny knot/2754 seconds for a double fisherman's (which is the only way you'll ever truly trust the knot to not come undone with regard to Martin's tale of woe). Also easier to clip onto the outside of a backpack and scoop up off the ground without having to carefully grab both ends of cord/tie a knot in the cord when you take it off, lest you grab one end and the chalk bag slides off.

If you lend your chalk bag to someone, very unlikely that the strap won't be long enough to go around their waist. When I used cord, however, I had it just the right length to go around my midsection (roughly the same as Ondra's after a kale/dioralyte binge), and so anyone else who wanted to use it had to suck in and/or make themselves vomit prior to use.

Lastly, and most importantly; while accessory cord is, inarguably, more useful than a bit of shitty, non-rated webbing connected by a plastic buckle, who will ever actually be in a situation where they need it? Really think about this. 84.7% of the climbing in this country occurs at Stanage anyway (based on a survey conducted by the Bureau of English Nice Days and Expeditions Research Society), and anyone who dares to venture into terrain where anything even remotely unexpected might happen does so equipped with prusiks, extra slings, and cord for the specific purpose touted by posters above.

In conclusion, then, while cord provides greater functionality in terms of emergency situations than a belt, it does so at the expense of general usability. Moreover, for the vast majority of climbers, the possible benefits of having one additional measly bit of cord in an emergency situation are outweighed by the thousands of hours lost in fiddling with said cord - equivalent to between four and six extreme ledge-shuffling leads at Stanage.

In reply to rhysowen:

Answer 1/ doesn't need to be load bearing, so any krab will do.
Answer 2/ Use a belt or accessory cord - can carry bag when bouldering, can move to side when in a chimney, sits neatly where you can reach it without going off balance (rather than dangling down behind one knee)

In reply to Fraser:

But in 20 years of climbing I've never needed to use such a bit of cord in such a manner. I also found the extra faff of tying and untying a pain, compared to the simple clip of a belt,

Fair enough, but in 51 years of climbing I've often had use for a yard or so of such string. I suspect that either (a) I'm more wimpy than you and feel the need to get down more often or (b) I've encountered more bad weather necessitating such unplanned descents or (c) perhaps we enjoy different climbing genres and I'm more likely to be somewhere it becomes a requirement?

In reply to Valkyrie1968:

Excellent analysis and you're right of course, especially in modern times most will be doing one pitch routes or boulders and therefore never be in a position to need emergency tat, and also not to have to worry too much about bits dropping off as they'll just end up on the ground about 4 feet below them.

Thus I would say to them use the method you like best - crab, belt, cord - whatever suits you best. But when you find yourself in a more adventurous location - you never know when that cord might come in handy.

In reply to andyjohnson0:


Seconded. I saw someone come off bouldering at the old Nottingham wall. Landed flat on her back, with her chalk bag krab at 90° to her spine.
The mat took the worst out of it, but she still let out a hell of a scream, and was very slow to get back on her feet.

In reply to SenzuBean:


I too use an eye in one end of the cord. Best one I had was a bit of No 1 hawser laid nylon I found with a loop beautifully spliced in one end - perfect - flat and unbulky. I left it with a chalk bag at the foot of a crag in Borrowdale about 20 years ago and have rued it's loss ever since. I keep meaning to see if I can find a bit of hawser laid nylon and learn how to splice it but of course have never got round to it.

In reply to rhysowen:

a length of rated tat is the only sensible option. See also; the 'How to look more outdoorsy' thread.

It should be tied with a reef not.

Just a reminder to the 2 trolls who dislike the original question that this a newbie forum where essentially there are no stupid questions. Don't be dicks

In reply to rhysowen:

I use an old shoe lace. Works great and allows for chalk bag swivel.

In reply to rhysowen:

Cord or a fastex belt as stated above.....biners are rubbish for chalk bags.....they make it hang to low and you can't move it to the side.

In reply to Martin Bennett:


I doubt 1 is true and I imagine 2&3 are most likely true! I tend not to start on something I'm not about 99% sure I can get down from easily. And besides, as any school kid knows, 51 trumps 20.

In reply to Morgan Woods:


Nah, biners are great. You don't have to contort yourself to reach a chalkbag in the small of your back, it takes a split second to unclip and relocate the bag wherever you want it and if you use a full strength krab it doubles as a bail biner.

In reply to timjones:


You can't really do that mid-fall though can you, which is the point of the majority of those advocating not using one for attaching a chalk bag.

In reply to Fraser:

I bought a batch of small krabs online recently - they worked out about 40p each, for strain relief and guying a light pole. I tested them to a force of 4 full Sigg bottles (4kg) and then also pulled the bottles upwards before letting them fall to load the krab dynamically to simulate a tug on the guys or dipole wire. No problem, so I think they'd hold a chalk bag.

In reply to rhysowen:
Until you've had a carabiner up the chuffer, you just won't understand.
Chalk bags hang funny unless attached by a belt or chord.
Bouldering- use a bucket bag. No connection required
Sport- use the clip belt that comes with the bag
Single pitch trad- clip belt or cord
Adventure/ multi pitch trad- use cord.

Why use a non rated crab that can't be used in an emergency? Just use the clip belt. And then you don't run the risk of being penetrated.

In reply to Fraser:


That's true if you are bouldering where are making hard moves close on the ground and accepting the "risk" of landing on a nice soft mat on your back. If you are climbing routes the exposure to that risk is a fleeting moment at the start of the route, the moves are likely to be easier and you are quite probably carrying other gear on your rear gear loop anyway.

Personally I negate the risk when bouldering by not carrying a chalkbag whilst climbing. How sweaty can you get for heavens sake

Sometimes we get stuck in the mindset of hard and fast rules rather than weighing the risk and acting accordingly.

In reply to Valkyrie1968:

I don't understand how you can make it a faff to attach a chalk bag with cord. I use about 1.5m of 5mm cord, with the ends joined by two double fishermans. I put it over my head, and pull the knots apart to tighten the loop. It takes a couple of seconds and will fit anyone. No tieing or untieing required.
I climb multipitch or ab from trees reasonably often, so I always like to have some tat with me. Maybe if I was one of the 84.7% who only climb single pitch grit routes I wouldn't bother.

In reply to rhysowen:

9/10 well done!!

In reply to mark_wellin:


That's what they might be hoping for.

You could always forget chalk altogether, and leave it for the blackboard where it belongs

In reply to krikoman:

Now that's just crazy talk

In reply to timjones:

Yes, sorry I should have clarified, everything I've talked about was in relation to bouldering, not routes.

In reply to Fraser:


Two well known phrases come to Mind: "age before beauty" and "there's no fool like an old fool"! By which I mean to imply, of myself, longevity does not necessarily earn venerability. And I wouldn't be too sure about (1).

In reply to Wingnut:

This:

In reply to rhysowen:

Hmmm. Joined just now and only post is bait.

Troll.

Now. Who is in this little competition with you?

In reply to rhysowen:

I use a belt. I have never used a cord, but I always have two prussik loops hanging off the back of my harness anyway and I'd rather have the quick-clip action of the buckle than fannying around tying knots, and as already stated clipping on with a krab is not ideal (I have a massive wooden brush on my chalkbag though!).

There is also the fact that I almost never wear a chalkbag climbing outside anyway, so wouldn't have the aforementioned bit of cord... I very rarely use it indoors on rope and mostly use it, on the floor, bouldering - but mostly because everybody else has got all the holds covered in sweat-soaked chalk; the brush comes out much more than the chalk :P

Almost certainly the best tiny krab in existence (rated to 4kN) is the DMM XSRE krabs, of which I have a couple for things like my nut key extender thingy (little retracting cord thing). But they cost more than a normal fully-rated krab so only useful when:
a) you have more money than sense (I mostly lack the latter rather than having a surplus of the former)!
b) you definitely already have enough gear that you are never, ever going to run out of krabs - see (a)
c) the weight and size advantage is critical/nice (they are tiny - massively smaller than even something like the tiny Edelrid krabs)

In reply to rhysowen:

+1 for cord. Get some strong cord (Prussik cord) and use that; also buy some extra to keep in reserve. Always useful.