UKC

Hi - New to this forum. Keen to find out a bit more about Elbrus and the levels of difficulty that could be faced when trying to scale it.

So far I have climbed Snowdon and Pen Y Fan and various mountains in the Highlands when I walked the West Highland Way in November last year (managed it in 4.5 days). I will be doing Ben Nevis and Scaffell Pike this year as well. I know these are somewhat 'drops in the ocean' in comparison to the 5600m peak of Elbrus....but everyone likes a challenge and all that

I would like to scale Elbrus next year - has anybody here completed Elbrus? Experiences? Difficulties and challenges?

I have read lots of articles saying there are a number of deaths each year so I don't want to walk into it blind.

Thanks!

In reply to yammyfan:

Its just a big slow plod. If you go with a organised tour everything will be taken care of. You then just have to concentrate on dealing with the altitude and snow conditions. If fresh snow then poles with big baskets will help especially the traverse into the col.

In reply to fmck:

Thanks for your reply. In all honesty we were planning on doing it unassisted but obviously notifying local rescue agencies and registering etc.

Is a guide a must?

In reply to yammyfan:


Can you navigate in a complete whiteout? Can you rescue someone from a crevasse? What would you do in the event of severe altitude sickness? Are you experienced dealing with extreme cold in remote areas?

Not convinced you will have the tools for the job after just a few UK hills. I admire your ambition, I also like taking on big challenges, but if you have to ask if a guide is required then the answer is probably yes.

In reply to yammyfan:
Probably even more basic, without a guide/agency to organise it, you'd need to speak pretty good Russian and have an understanding of 'the rules operating that particular week' and who to baksheesh to get around them, to even get to the mountain.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Thanks for the responses.

I have navigated in a white out and did rescue my partner with some luckily crafted knots from a small crevasse as we did the highlands and mountains at a stupid time of year- but given I answered no to most of those and I cannot speak Russian I am guessing a guide is required I am happy to take criticism on the chin, but why so salty, I am trying to learn!

I would really be interested in learning a number of mountaineering skills over and above whipping up and down a few 'hills' (although I am sure they are mountains still??), Do the guides teach you these things or are there mountaineering courses I can go on?

In reply to yammyfan:

As previous posters have said Elbrus is pretty much a snow plod in terms of technical difficulty. But it sits next the awesome main spine ofthe Caucuses. Very many seriously excellent mountain routes of all grades in outstanding settings ranging from beginners peaks (Pik Gumachi) to very serious committing routes (on the Shkelda Wall or Pik Ushba) very close by. If I were planning a return trip, aside from the fact I've summited Elbrus, I'd want to spend most of my time on some of the excellent lower (relative) peaks. Of course all of the comments about mountain experience, fitness etc stand.

In reply to yammyfan:

Welcome to UKC, there's a lot of saltiness around! unfortunately it's just something you have to get used to!

Sounds like a good trip, which ever way you go I'd be keen to hear how you get on as its on my long list of things to do.

In reply to yammyfan:

There are several introduction to Alpine climbing courses about, why not try signing up to one of these before throwing yourselves in at the deep end? As others have said it's mainly glacier travel, crevasse rescue and route finding, but several other skills come into play in such terrain that you just don't come across in the UK.

Thanks all to your helpful replies! I will get a few more smaller peaks in this year and some over the winter in Scotland again and maybe search for some alpine courses and see how I get on. I will be doing it...how / what route / who with and at what point in 2017 is to be determined! I will update this thread when I am able to and include any training i do!

Cheers all

In reply to yammyfan:

No glaciers in Scotland. No altitude in Scotland. No massive scale and remoteness in Scotland. No mountain rescue in Elbrus. Try a 4000er first.

In reply to mysterion:

Any suggestions of which to scale first? Happy to take on a pretty sharp learning curve if need be.

In reply to yammyfan:
Go climbing, more specifically go Trad climbing as soon as you can. I see you are based in the South West like me so find a climbing partner with experience and head out to the cliffs. You will be doing multi-pitch routes in no time and there are plenty of multi-pitch crags in the South West (Swanage, Daddyhole, Dewerstone, North Devon coast and tons of stuff down lands end). If you start Trad climbing you will very shortly know how to build rock anchors (especially if you do multi-pitch routes), how to tie all the relevant knots (Figure 8's, Clove Hitches, Alpine Butterfly etc...) all of which will help when you head to the mountains. Then when you feel you have enough experience using your ropes, tying knots, building anchors head to Scotland in winter with someone experienced and learn from them. Alternatively you can do a winter skills course and stay in Glenmore Lodge in the Cairngorms. This should just about cover everything you will need to know but nothing is better than real experience in the hills. You could always head to Chamonix this summer and hire a guide to take you up something big like Mont Blanc, they will give you a couple of days training (Rope-work, crampons, crevasse rescue etc...) before taking you up but I would rather climb mountains without a guide drawing from experience I have gained.

In a nut shell start climbing with someone or even better multiple people with experience and learn from them.

In reply to mysterion:


Although, when I was at the Cosmiques hut once, someone asked a French guide whether Scotland in winter was good preparation for the Alps. He thought a moment and replied that the Alps was good preparation for Scotland in winter!

I've had some of my hardest days on little old 3000ft hills in Scotland in winter.

That said, I think Elbrus with and without a guide is like night and day. With a guide, you'll need fitness and a bit of experience of winter skills. On your own, you really should have done quite a bit of Scottish winter or Alpine peaks. There is no substitute for judgement and experience.

Thanks Both.

Funnily enough I did start looking at Mount Blanc with a guide after it was suggested I looked at some others first. I did a lot of climbing (all be it indoor walls and routes) for about 3 years when i lived near a climbing centre but have not go the foggiest about rock climbing properly.

I did a lot of routes in the Highlands in deep November and the conditions were horrific and came in very quick to near double digit minus figures with wind chill on the side of some 'hills' which was an eye opener!

I will take on board whats been said. Hopefully i can squeeze some holidays in doing it next year.

In reply to David Staples:

If it's a snow plod, then how does learning to go cragging in the sunny end of the isle provide any useful skills? Is a rope even necessary for anything on Elbrus other than crevasses - at which point I suspect most trad climbers (including myself) wouldn't be practised at actually hauling their friend out? (knowing how to do something in theory and actually having done it are a world apart). I suspect that for me going (back) to the gym and practising carrying heavy bags up and down hills would be more useful...

I recognise my minimal navigational skills (I have the basics but I have never really put them to the test and I don't know my pacing distances or average walking speeds, for instance), complete lack of crevasse experience, minimal winter experience and really no idea when a slope is or is not avalanche-prone (despite studying it). I think there is no substitute for _relevant_ experience, and consequently I personally would hire a guide without question (if I was committed to Elbrus).

But I can trad climb, so I should be fine, right? :P

In reply to yammyfan:

Do really need crevasse experience? The normal route doesn't cross any crevasse areas. Although there are some below the col but you traverse into the col rather than go up through these.

In reply to yammyfan:

Low level cragging won't be all that helpful but it will help with rope work and getting used to being on small holds over big drops. Long mountain routes would be better as they'd also help with endurance and just being out for long days in the mountains. Winter mountaineering can help with ice axe and crampon, building snow belays, avalanche awareness, and more endurance.

You don't need to be in the Alps to practice moving together roped up or on a glacier for crevasse rescue - you just need an edge. So there is a lot you could do before you head out. I would advise you do go to the Alps and get some instruction in a similar but a bit less remote location before you go to Elbrus. You need to walk across a few glaciers before you get your eye in on what to look out for, the tell tale signs of crevasses, where the best route is likely to be etc. Don't be fooled by people telling you there aren't any crevasses, glaciers by definition move, just because there isn't one there today doesn't mean there won't be one next year. It would also be a good idea if you can to try a 4000m peak so you get a feel for altitude.

The Breithorn, Bishorn, Allalinhorn, Gran Paradiso, Lagginhorn and Weissmies would all be worthwhile.

In reply to yammyfan:

Breithorn from Zermatt and Allalinhorn from Saas. Snowy, glaciated, non-rocky, with uplift so once acclimatised in a hut across the valley you can get the gondola up and straight on with the training. An attempt at Mont Blanc would not be out of the question for a next step. You can do all this anytime from now until the beginning of September.

In reply to andrewmcleod:

Having transitioned from Trad to winter and then alpine I feel that the skills I developed in trad climbing are very useful in the alps and Scottish winter. I was referring to yammyfan's comment above mine about scaling other peaks first. Scrambling, Winter climbing, hillwalking and possibly peak bagging in the alps. Having a background in trad means you won't be double-taking when tying off tat to build ab stations, you will be able to build anchors, 3-in-1 pulley systems etc... all of which are incredibly useful skills to have when climbing/scrambling in the mountains.

Like all climbing the more experience you have the better, snow plods I agree don't require any real trad climbing experience other than a good eye for weather, navigation skills, snow/avalanche reading skills and glacial travel/crevasse rescue skills etc...