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Hi - new here! Read plenty of the post and comments here on AT ski bindings and have some questions. I'm an intermediate piste skier hoping to improve and get onto lift accessed 'slackcountry' as a starter to AT skiing. Got some tech compatible boots and some all-mountain skis ( Solly Q90s). Dilemma : which bindings? I'm 52, 1.73m/5'8", and 150lbs/67kgs. I anticipate most of my skiing in the next couple of years will still be 75% piste and 25% off piste with a mix of lift served offpiste and AT work. Looking at:
Marker F10/12s; Diamir Eagle or Scout II and Hagan Z02s --all of which seem to offer the acceptable tradeoff of heavier bindings with more downhil performance/security. Looked at the Dynafit Speed Turn 2.0 as well. Most of those who swear by Dynafit bindings are typically faster, stronger and much more experienced, low-fall incidence skiers, IMO. I expect to face plant and have the usual noob experience in AT work. What do the wiser, advanced skiers think I should do in terms of bets bindings for the next few years? Thanks very much
Marker F10/12s; Diamir Eagle or Scout II and Hagan Z02s --all of which seem to offer the acceptable tradeoff of heavier bindings with more downhil performance/security. Looked at the Dynafit Speed Turn 2.0 as well. Most of those who swear by Dynafit bindings are typically faster, stronger and much more experienced, low-fall incidence skiers, IMO. I expect to face plant and have the usual noob experience in AT work. What do the wiser, advanced skiers think I should do in terms of bets bindings for the next few years? Thanks very much
In reply to Davelim8850:
Speed Turn 2s won't hold up for long if you use them as a 75% piste ski binding as well, they will inevitably start to get sloppy. I love them, I have a pair mounted now and another set in the box waiting to go on the next skis that i buy, but I do my best to keep them for touring-only days.
I cannot recommend enough going for tech bindings over frame bindings, getting all the weight off your heels makes slogging uphill a thousand times easier, even if you end up going for some of the heavier tech bindings available. I can recommend the Dynafit Beast 16s, especially as they are selling super cheap right now. They are sturdy enough to last well as a piste binding as well.
Speed Turn 2s won't hold up for long if you use them as a 75% piste ski binding as well, they will inevitably start to get sloppy. I love them, I have a pair mounted now and another set in the box waiting to go on the next skis that i buy, but I do my best to keep them for touring-only days.
I cannot recommend enough going for tech bindings over frame bindings, getting all the weight off your heels makes slogging uphill a thousand times easier, even if you end up going for some of the heavier tech bindings available. I can recommend the Dynafit Beast 16s, especially as they are selling super cheap right now. They are sturdy enough to last well as a piste binding as well.
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In reply to Davelim8850:
I would definitely go tech from the start of you have tech boots: I can't see any advantages of plate bindings any more over the new generation of tech bindings: except price as you can pick them up really cheap (which tells a tale.)
I would suggest moderate to heavier tech bindings for your anticipated uses. Don't underestimate how tricky tech can be to step into: I still find it hard after using them 3 years, especially on an icy slope, so those with boot guides are pretty useful.
I love my G3 ions, beefy enough for hard skiing, not light but not too heavy, and a really good boot guide. I've demoed Kingpins a few times: far too heavy for my use of mostly backcountry, but as easy as downhill bindings to step into. I've not used Vipecs but my regular partners use them: they seem reasonable but the boot guide seems a bit useless. I also have used Plum Guides, the older Dynafit radical, and my super light setup has Kreuzspitze GTs: they're all pretty good to ski with, but the usual fiddling to get into the pins.
I'm 186cm, 70kg, 90% backcountry/touring, 10% club field skier in mixed NZ conditions, high intermediate.
I would definitely go tech from the start of you have tech boots: I can't see any advantages of plate bindings any more over the new generation of tech bindings: except price as you can pick them up really cheap (which tells a tale.)
I would suggest moderate to heavier tech bindings for your anticipated uses. Don't underestimate how tricky tech can be to step into: I still find it hard after using them 3 years, especially on an icy slope, so those with boot guides are pretty useful.
I love my G3 ions, beefy enough for hard skiing, not light but not too heavy, and a really good boot guide. I've demoed Kingpins a few times: far too heavy for my use of mostly backcountry, but as easy as downhill bindings to step into. I've not used Vipecs but my regular partners use them: they seem reasonable but the boot guide seems a bit useless. I also have used Plum Guides, the older Dynafit radical, and my super light setup has Kreuzspitze GTs: they're all pretty good to ski with, but the usual fiddling to get into the pins.
I'm 186cm, 70kg, 90% backcountry/touring, 10% club field skier in mixed NZ conditions, high intermediate.
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Yeah - I looked at those "hybrid" tech bindings too. About 300 per cent more expensive! Fabuous build quality though. Your opinions about resort skiing having a disproportionate wear and tear on ( expensive)tech bindings is echoed in many forums too. Found a deal for GBP125 for a pair of Marker F12s - hence the question above, not to mention they seemed to be a fit with my level of competence and anticipated usage....
In reply to Davelim8850:
Be a bit cautious of second hand plate style bindings like the F12s and Fritschi Freerides: if they've had a good bit of use they might not have much more use left in them, the pins start to get loose and sloppy.
Be a bit cautious of second hand plate style bindings like the F12s and Fritschi Freerides: if they've had a good bit of use they might not have much more use left in them, the pins start to get loose and sloppy.
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In reply to Davelim8850:
I face-planted in fine style this very afternoon into an unseen snowdrift and my Dynafit Radical STs released just fine. A perfect double ejection was achieved.
I face-planted in fine style this very afternoon into an unseen snowdrift and my Dynafit Radical STs released just fine. A perfect double ejection was achieved.
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In reply to damowilk:
These are offered new! Quite a steal IMO - but for the weight...
These are offered new! Quite a steal IMO - but for the weight...
> Be a bit cautious of second hand plate style bindings like the F12s and Fritschi Freerides: if they've had a good bit of use they might not have much more use left in them, the pins start to get loose and sloppy.
In reply to Davelim8850:
To buck the trend....... I'm an ex-Dynafit speed user who now has F12s.
Why? My previous touring set up was a dedicated touring rig from when I lived in the Alps. I am now a podgy desk monkey who doesn't ski as much as I'd like so i want a "one ski quiver". I found tech bindings a real faff when resort skiing (the brakes were rubbish, the leashes a pain) and had a couple of situations where I didn't get the release I'd have liked so I decided on a frame binding. I#d previously used Fritschis and found them quite sloppy so plumped for the markers.
Do they work? My current set up is Scarpa Freedom SLs, F12 and Rossi Soul 7s - the definitive Brit punter set up....... and I love it! It's not amazing in any conditions but it's great in most, from family faffing on the piste to a day tour of 2000m. The bindings are great, they ski really well (no slop) and I'm happy touring on them. The apparent massive weight on my feet hasn't rendered me unable to tour and the only drawback/niggle is the icing up of the teeth when trying the engage ski mode after a tour and I've now got a little brush to sort that if I get any issues.
If I was living in the Alps, had any inclination to ski into routes or any opportunity to do long tours I'd be looking at tech bindings but for the me, I'm happy.
To buck the trend....... I'm an ex-Dynafit speed user who now has F12s.
Why? My previous touring set up was a dedicated touring rig from when I lived in the Alps. I am now a podgy desk monkey who doesn't ski as much as I'd like so i want a "one ski quiver". I found tech bindings a real faff when resort skiing (the brakes were rubbish, the leashes a pain) and had a couple of situations where I didn't get the release I'd have liked so I decided on a frame binding. I#d previously used Fritschis and found them quite sloppy so plumped for the markers.
Do they work? My current set up is Scarpa Freedom SLs, F12 and Rossi Soul 7s - the definitive Brit punter set up....... and I love it! It's not amazing in any conditions but it's great in most, from family faffing on the piste to a day tour of 2000m. The bindings are great, they ski really well (no slop) and I'm happy touring on them. The apparent massive weight on my feet hasn't rendered me unable to tour and the only drawback/niggle is the icing up of the teeth when trying the engage ski mode after a tour and I've now got a little brush to sort that if I get any issues.
If I was living in the Alps, had any inclination to ski into routes or any opportunity to do long tours I'd be looking at tech bindings but for the me, I'm happy.
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In reply to Davelim8850:
They were my first touring bindings, I was quite happy with them, good transition into touring. Having skied tech bindings now I wouldn't no back though!
You probably don't need to worry too much about release from tech bindings: there were concerns that they didn't release as well in lower speed torsional falls that less experience skiers might have more often (I still collapse in a twisted heap on breakable crust too often!) but it doesn't seem to be the case. There's some complicated and interesting stuff somewhere on Wildsnow about the mechanics of release in different bindings: the summary seemed to be that actually bindings that don't release at the toe (dynafit pre radical 2, Plum, G3 ions among others) are less likely than those that do (Vipecs, Kingpins, Beasts) to cause knee injuries, but in contrast are more likely to cause spiral lower leg fractures. This seems to be due to where the centre of rotation is relative to the axis of your leg in s torsional fall. Not sure how useful this is in the real world, except to chose which type of injury you'd prefer!
They were my first touring bindings, I was quite happy with them, good transition into touring. Having skied tech bindings now I wouldn't no back though!
You probably don't need to worry too much about release from tech bindings: there were concerns that they didn't release as well in lower speed torsional falls that less experience skiers might have more often (I still collapse in a twisted heap on breakable crust too often!) but it doesn't seem to be the case. There's some complicated and interesting stuff somewhere on Wildsnow about the mechanics of release in different bindings: the summary seemed to be that actually bindings that don't release at the toe (dynafit pre radical 2, Plum, G3 ions among others) are less likely than those that do (Vipecs, Kingpins, Beasts) to cause knee injuries, but in contrast are more likely to cause spiral lower leg fractures. This seems to be due to where the centre of rotation is relative to the axis of your leg in s torsional fall. Not sure how useful this is in the real world, except to chose which type of injury you'd prefer!
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In reply to galpinos:
Your solution if you wanted to go back to tech is the G3 Ion! I find myself recommending them so often people must think I have shares in them! So much easier to get into than the Plums I had before, good brakes and a sturdy binding!
I've had probably 40-60 days use on them.
Your solution if you wanted to go back to tech is the G3 Ion! I find myself recommending them so often people must think I have shares in them! So much easier to get into than the Plums I had before, good brakes and a sturdy binding!
I've had probably 40-60 days use on them.
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In reply to Davelim8850:
OP: 75% piste, 25% side country/off....................stay away from tech bindings.
You can go down that route if you really take to serious touring. Maybe. My tech bindings lasted 3 trips before the fiddle-factor drove me insane and I gave them away.
OP: 75% piste, 25% side country/off....................stay away from tech bindings.
You can go down that route if you really take to serious touring. Maybe. My tech bindings lasted 3 trips before the fiddle-factor drove me insane and I gave them away.
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In reply to AdrianC:
Digressing a bit - how would you rate the Radical STs vs the G3 Ions? It seems the rotating heel block has some fans whilst the flip down/up heel risers ont he G3 and Marker Kingpins style seems to much easier to use. Tempted by the weight of the Speed Turn. but less so if I am doing mostly inbound skiing.
Thanks so far folks for all the imputs and suggestions
Digressing a bit - how would you rate the Radical STs vs the G3 Ions? It seems the rotating heel block has some fans whilst the flip down/up heel risers ont he G3 and Marker Kingpins style seems to much easier to use. Tempted by the weight of the Speed Turn. but less so if I am doing mostly inbound skiing.
Thanks so far folks for all the imputs and suggestions
In reply to galpinos:
hahaha - thanks for bucking the trend indeed! Ilive in tropical SIngapore ( right passion, wrong country). Really envy those close to snowy peaks and can crank 30 -100 days skiing a year, so your opinions is truly valued in terms of the various tradeoffs ( skill, cost, ease of use, resort vs BC work)
hahaha - thanks for bucking the trend indeed! Ilive in tropical SIngapore ( right passion, wrong country). Really envy those close to snowy peaks and can crank 30 -100 days skiing a year, so your opinions is truly valued in terms of the various tradeoffs ( skill, cost, ease of use, resort vs BC work)
In reply to damowilk:
Maybe. I've had my set up for a few years and they were only just out (I'm quite conservative so rarely an early adopter and Salomon's outing into the world of tech binding compatible boots mean I'll wait a season or two before trying something). I shalln't be updating for a while though, child associated expenses mean skiing is now quite expensive and the budget doesn't stretch to more skis for me.
Maybe. I've had my set up for a few years and they were only just out (I'm quite conservative so rarely an early adopter and Salomon's outing into the world of tech binding compatible boots mean I'll wait a season or two before trying something). I shalln't be updating for a while though, child associated expenses mean skiing is now quite expensive and the budget doesn't stretch to more skis for me.
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In reply to Davelim8850:
getting keen on winter already? we're only just past the solstice.....
from what you've described (75/25% Piste/off piste - lift served backcountry):
I would go for convenience and ease of use over anything else. The only musts would be ski brakes and release adjustability. but you've probably already got that covered.
For touring, where you're skinning 500 and more meters ascent, then light-is-right is the thing to go for; this is not what you're going for. your skis are already double the weight of a touring ski.
you don't say which boots you've got, but I'd guess they are not superlight and lightweight probably isn't really the ultimate priority. For lift served backcountry weight really isn't the primary concern.
in short; it's a backcountry ski - get backcountry bindings and call it a backcountry setup.
just accept that your setup isn't going to be the thing for big ascent days or hut to hut tours.
for your anticipated use, pin bindings are of marginal benefit in being a wee bit lighter. I'm not trying to dissuade you (they are not that fiddly, they work well, and you'll get used to them pretty quick) it's just they are not outright better.
it's worth bearing in mind the adjustability (post fixing) of each binding to boot length, in case you get some other nice new shinier boots (light weight with go faster stripes?) in the future
getting keen on winter already? we're only just past the solstice.....
from what you've described (75/25% Piste/off piste - lift served backcountry):
I would go for convenience and ease of use over anything else. The only musts would be ski brakes and release adjustability. but you've probably already got that covered.
For touring, where you're skinning 500 and more meters ascent, then light-is-right is the thing to go for; this is not what you're going for. your skis are already double the weight of a touring ski.
you don't say which boots you've got, but I'd guess they are not superlight and lightweight probably isn't really the ultimate priority. For lift served backcountry weight really isn't the primary concern.
in short; it's a backcountry ski - get backcountry bindings and call it a backcountry setup.
just accept that your setup isn't going to be the thing for big ascent days or hut to hut tours.
for your anticipated use, pin bindings are of marginal benefit in being a wee bit lighter. I'm not trying to dissuade you (they are not that fiddly, they work well, and you'll get used to them pretty quick) it's just they are not outright better.
it's worth bearing in mind the adjustability (post fixing) of each binding to boot length, in case you get some other nice new shinier boots (light weight with go faster stripes?) in the future
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In reply to Davelim8850:
I have the Radical ST 2.0 bindings on my day-to-day ski (Cham 107s) and the original STs on my super-lightweight-this-is-silly-how-does-it-work? ski (Movement Response X). They are great bindings. Yes, there can be a little faff with tech bindings, but this becomes minimal with experience. The rotating toe of the 2.0s makes a big difference to the feel of them; I'm comfortable skiing anything with them - this is based on 40ish ski mountaineering days in Scotland this year, primarily on the bigger ski setup.
I have the Radical ST 2.0 bindings on my day-to-day ski (Cham 107s) and the original STs on my super-lightweight-this-is-silly-how-does-it-work? ski (Movement Response X). They are great bindings. Yes, there can be a little faff with tech bindings, but this becomes minimal with experience. The rotating toe of the 2.0s makes a big difference to the feel of them; I'm comfortable skiing anything with them - this is based on 40ish ski mountaineering days in Scotland this year, primarily on the bigger ski setup.
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In reply to galpinos:
I will join your club, i am an ex Fritschi Vipec user now on F12's, i only use them in the alps (they live out there in our place) yes heavier, yes much poorer skinning action but for resort based and slack country touring they ski sooooo much better, they really have made a massive difference to the Cham 97's i have them on.
i have a pair of K2 Waybacks over here for Lakes and Scottish stuff, i run them without brakes and its a nice light setup as you end up with them on a pack more than skiing sometimes.
I also now have a dickie knee thanks to a non release on the Vipecs when i made a silly mistake and sat back, but that's another story.......
I will join your club, i am an ex Fritschi Vipec user now on F12's, i only use them in the alps (they live out there in our place) yes heavier, yes much poorer skinning action but for resort based and slack country touring they ski sooooo much better, they really have made a massive difference to the Cham 97's i have them on.
i have a pair of K2 Waybacks over here for Lakes and Scottish stuff, i run them without brakes and its a nice light setup as you end up with them on a pack more than skiing sometimes.
I also now have a dickie knee thanks to a non release on the Vipecs when i made a silly mistake and sat back, but that's another story.......
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In reply to Davelim8850:
ok, it's time to make some proper suggestions - and state your preference.
you're not too heavy and probably won't be putting too much force through the thing when skiing.
I'd suggest, either a lighter one of the plate type or a tech with toe release:
I'd go for one of these two:
1st/2nd:
Diamir Eagle - very much like a piste binding / piss easy to use / flip-down (axiom) crampons (very handy in uncertain conditions). I'm a lot heavier than you and my Explores (old version of the eagle) have been fine for me inc on piste.
Marker F10 - not use these myself...
or, if you want to save a couple of hundred grams on a heavy setup, or just look tech with pin bindings:
3rd - 6th in order:
G3 Ion - not use these myself but I like the colour
Marker Kingpin 10 - almost bought these last year, easy to use n the mech looks n feels solid.
Dynafit TLT Radical ST 2.0 - bought these instead, but I have my suspicions about their robustness / longevity (I think the brake lockdown looks iffy and might not last - but we'll just have to see).........
Diamir Vipec 12 - after initial design teething troubles these now appear to be ok - bit plasticy tho...
7th - 2nd last: all the rest.......
last: Dynafit Beast 14 - pointless
beyond last: Dynafit Beast 16 - dynafit's answer to a problem that doesn't exist.
ok, it's time to make some proper suggestions - and state your preference.
you're not too heavy and probably won't be putting too much force through the thing when skiing.
I'd suggest, either a lighter one of the plate type or a tech with toe release:
I'd go for one of these two:
1st/2nd:
Diamir Eagle - very much like a piste binding / piss easy to use / flip-down (axiom) crampons (very handy in uncertain conditions). I'm a lot heavier than you and my Explores (old version of the eagle) have been fine for me inc on piste.
Marker F10 - not use these myself...
or, if you want to save a couple of hundred grams on a heavy setup, or just look tech with pin bindings:
3rd - 6th in order:
G3 Ion - not use these myself but I like the colour
Marker Kingpin 10 - almost bought these last year, easy to use n the mech looks n feels solid.
Dynafit TLT Radical ST 2.0 - bought these instead, but I have my suspicions about their robustness / longevity (I think the brake lockdown looks iffy and might not last - but we'll just have to see).........
Diamir Vipec 12 - after initial design teething troubles these now appear to be ok - bit plasticy tho...
7th - 2nd last: all the rest.......
last: Dynafit Beast 14 - pointless
beyond last: Dynafit Beast 16 - dynafit's answer to a problem that doesn't exist.
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In reply to damowilk:
What caught me out with a Vipec was a failure to release vertically at the toe that would have happened in a non tech binding, thankfully no lasting damaged but spoiled a weekend skiing.....
What caught me out with a Vipec was a failure to release vertically at the toe that would have happened in a non tech binding, thankfully no lasting damaged but spoiled a weekend skiing.....
In reply to daWalt:
Funny you should say that - I've twice had the brakes unlock by themselves when skinning. The good thing with the 2.0 is that you don't need to hold the brakes down while rotating the heel piece (unlike the original) to reset them, so stamping down on the binding locks them in again.
> Dynafit TLT Radical ST 2.0 - bought these instead, but I have my suspicions about their robustness / longevity (I think the brake lockdown looks iffy and might not last - but we'll just have to see).........
Funny you should say that - I've twice had the brakes unlock by themselves when skinning. The good thing with the 2.0 is that you don't need to hold the brakes down while rotating the heel piece (unlike the original) to reset them, so stamping down on the binding locks them in again.
In reply to daWalt:
Point taken about the light -is- right. I may be starting with small steps - slackcountry and then, more ambitious stuff needing lighter, more advanced stuff. Hopefull by then, by then. I'll be looking for an upgrade in gear
Point taken about the light -is- right. I may be starting with small steps - slackcountry and then, more ambitious stuff needing lighter, more advanced stuff. Hopefull by then, by then. I'll be looking for an upgrade in gear
In reply to daWalt:
Nearly bang on the money - I looked closely at the Eagle but plumped down finally for the Marker Tour F12s which , in 'S" should be about 900 grams per side. This would be mounted on an all-mountain Solly Q90s 161cm ( I am 173cm tall), and with my Dynafit Neo's ( pretty light boots I must say). I;m not that nimble ( I have a disabled right lower leg) to strip skins off with out taking skis off, so the step-out demands of the Marker should be OK, nor will I likely be on sketchy ground when doing so. Really amazed by so many helpful comments and suggestions - thanks everyone ! I'd like to also point out that the "all-mountain" ski set up - lik the rest is really about having a one-setup quiver - I'm more a mountaineer than skier, and dont want lots of ski setups, so I've beenbuilding a kind of "Scarpa Inverno" type setup - good for many things on a mountain, but not particulary good for anything specifically.
Nearly bang on the money - I looked closely at the Eagle but plumped down finally for the Marker Tour F12s which , in 'S" should be about 900 grams per side. This would be mounted on an all-mountain Solly Q90s 161cm ( I am 173cm tall), and with my Dynafit Neo's ( pretty light boots I must say). I;m not that nimble ( I have a disabled right lower leg) to strip skins off with out taking skis off, so the step-out demands of the Marker should be OK, nor will I likely be on sketchy ground when doing so. Really amazed by so many helpful comments and suggestions - thanks everyone ! I'd like to also point out that the "all-mountain" ski set up - lik the rest is really about having a one-setup quiver - I'm more a mountaineer than skier, and dont want lots of ski setups, so I've beenbuilding a kind of "Scarpa Inverno" type setup - good for many things on a mountain, but not particulary good for anything specifically.
Post edited at 14:11
In reply to daWalt:
NOW THAT got my attention. I had been looking at a compromise - one ski does most of the stuff i want to do - easy powder, in bounds skiing, hence the Solly Q90s The Q90s in the 161cm is about 1.5kgs per side. What skis weigh HALF of that? Interested to know ( digressing I know...) Tks
> getting keen on winter already? we're only just past the solstice.....
Early skier gets the clearance gear in the summer ;-P> For touring, where you're skinning 500 and more meters ascent, then light-is-right is the thing to go for; this is not what you're going for. your skis are already double the weight of a touring ski. ot outright better.
NOW THAT got my attention. I had been looking at a compromise - one ski does most of the stuff i want to do - easy powder, in bounds skiing, hence the Solly Q90s The Q90s in the 161cm is about 1.5kgs per side. What skis weigh HALF of that? Interested to know ( digressing I know...) Tks
In reply to James Jackson:
exactly that; I think there is only a tiny margin between the thing locking and it poping out.
the locking bit has a wee metal shim thing attached onto the edge of the plastic rotating plate. the plastic at the edge of the metal shim is already worn down but the metal is ok for now. but there's not much tolerance in the metal bit as it is holding the thing down.
I think.....
this was only happening to me when I was on the high riser. Stomping onto the unit (the rotating bit) is enough to rock the whole thing back enough to allow the brake to pop out.
you'll see what I mean if you try locking the brake down slowly by hand; there's a fair bit of play in the back unit......
probably just don't look.... just carry on skiing
> the brakes unlock by themselves when skinning.
exactly that; I think there is only a tiny margin between the thing locking and it poping out.
the locking bit has a wee metal shim thing attached onto the edge of the plastic rotating plate. the plastic at the edge of the metal shim is already worn down but the metal is ok for now. but there's not much tolerance in the metal bit as it is holding the thing down.
I think.....
this was only happening to me when I was on the high riser. Stomping onto the unit (the rotating bit) is enough to rock the whole thing back enough to allow the brake to pop out.
you'll see what I mean if you try locking the brake down slowly by hand; there's a fair bit of play in the back unit......
probably just don't look.... just carry on skiing
Post edited at 14:31
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In reply to Davelim8850:
I got the weight wrong, looking at the wrong ski......
1.5 kg is reasonable
1.2 kg / ski is light
<1.0 is getting like skiing a sheet of paper..
I got the weight wrong, looking at the wrong ski......
1.5 kg is reasonable
1.2 kg / ski is light
<1.0 is getting like skiing a sheet of paper..
1
In reply to Davelim8850:
161cm?
that's racing spec:
https://www.haganskimountaineering.com/collections/professional-series/prod...
161cm?
that's racing spec:
https://www.haganskimountaineering.com/collections/professional-series/prod...
1
In reply to daWalt:
I like skiing on slightly shorter skis-- makes turns a bit easier. I skied in Hokkaido on 155s and that was fun. With two lower legs permanently disabled ( no plantar flexion in both lower legs and right leg also has foot drop ie no dorsiflexion), I can't finesse by using heel-toe micro movements. I have to use my upper leg. So I dont ski pretty. So right now the set up is:
-Dynafit Neos ( 1.6kgs per boot in size 27.5) US250 ( new)
- Salomon Q90s 161cm - 1.5-1.6kg per ski US220 ( demo)
- Marker Tour F12s ( just shipped!) at 0.9kg per side ( in 'S' size) ( new US$125)
totalling ( without skins) about 4kgs per foot/leg - not the lightest, but OK I think, and about US$480 to set up - not too bad, IMO. UK's Freeze Pro Shop have some of the best deals!
I was intrigued about super light AT skis and googled more. Some of those skis with a "Vapor" or "nano' tagline are US$800-1200 a pair ... hahaha
I like skiing on slightly shorter skis-- makes turns a bit easier. I skied in Hokkaido on 155s and that was fun. With two lower legs permanently disabled ( no plantar flexion in both lower legs and right leg also has foot drop ie no dorsiflexion), I can't finesse by using heel-toe micro movements. I have to use my upper leg. So I dont ski pretty. So right now the set up is:
-Dynafit Neos ( 1.6kgs per boot in size 27.5) US250 ( new)
- Salomon Q90s 161cm - 1.5-1.6kg per ski US220 ( demo)
- Marker Tour F12s ( just shipped!) at 0.9kg per side ( in 'S' size) ( new US$125)
totalling ( without skins) about 4kgs per foot/leg - not the lightest, but OK I think, and about US$480 to set up - not too bad, IMO. UK's Freeze Pro Shop have some of the best deals!
I was intrigued about super light AT skis and googled more. Some of those skis with a "Vapor" or "nano' tagline are US$800-1200 a pair ... hahaha
Post edited at 15:02
In reply to Davelim8850:
Hi Dave
I've got 2 pairs of skis; Whitedot Preachers (fat powder skis 112 under foot) with Marker f10 bindings and Whitedot One (all mountain 89 under foot) with Diamir Eagle bindings. Both are great. With the Preachers I don't do long skins, but enough to get to the down hill, they work great but sometimes the mechanism to shift from up to down gets iced up which is a faff. I have skinned uphill with the Eagles (on my older Scott Missions now not in use) for 1000m and they are fine and I find the heel height adjustment a lot less faff than the Markers. Both binding /ski combinations work well for me. The Eagles are fine on steep blacks top to bottom fast without stopping, I sometimes read of people finding them a bit sloppy but I've never noticed this; maybe heavier/faster/better skiers would - (I'm 150lb 5'5"").
Having said that I've just changed my boots to a lighter/stiffer pair with tech inserts and I'm considering moving to pin bindings (Dynafit Radical ST or Diamir Vipec) with a new pair of light touring skis (n+1!) if I get time to do some multi day tours next season. if I do this I may share the new pin bindings across all 3 skis with quiver killer insets that allow quick changes, mainly to save on bulk and weight when travelling.
A potential issue with pin bindings is that they don't release as well in all situations as a frame binding, although the latest Dynafit Radical and Diamir Vipec have closed the gap considerably. For example in a twisting foot fall Dynafits release at the heel whereas alpine bindings and Vipecs will do so at the toe; there's loads of debate on the internet about the respective merits of each in terms of crucial ligament damage vs tibia fractures.
Also pin bindings can be a lot more of a faff to get back into, especially after a fall on a steep slope.
If you are at the stage of improving your skiing with regular falls my advice would be to stick with Diamir Eagle (or possibly Marker f10/12) and consider pin bindings at sometime in the future; the weight saving with pin bindings won't really be much use unless you get lighter skis to go with them and know what sort of lighter skis you want when your skiing develops. Also you will keep the flexibility to use boots with non tech fittings.
Hi Dave
I've got 2 pairs of skis; Whitedot Preachers (fat powder skis 112 under foot) with Marker f10 bindings and Whitedot One (all mountain 89 under foot) with Diamir Eagle bindings. Both are great. With the Preachers I don't do long skins, but enough to get to the down hill, they work great but sometimes the mechanism to shift from up to down gets iced up which is a faff. I have skinned uphill with the Eagles (on my older Scott Missions now not in use) for 1000m and they are fine and I find the heel height adjustment a lot less faff than the Markers. Both binding /ski combinations work well for me. The Eagles are fine on steep blacks top to bottom fast without stopping, I sometimes read of people finding them a bit sloppy but I've never noticed this; maybe heavier/faster/better skiers would - (I'm 150lb 5'5"").
Having said that I've just changed my boots to a lighter/stiffer pair with tech inserts and I'm considering moving to pin bindings (Dynafit Radical ST or Diamir Vipec) with a new pair of light touring skis (n+1!) if I get time to do some multi day tours next season. if I do this I may share the new pin bindings across all 3 skis with quiver killer insets that allow quick changes, mainly to save on bulk and weight when travelling.
A potential issue with pin bindings is that they don't release as well in all situations as a frame binding, although the latest Dynafit Radical and Diamir Vipec have closed the gap considerably. For example in a twisting foot fall Dynafits release at the heel whereas alpine bindings and Vipecs will do so at the toe; there's loads of debate on the internet about the respective merits of each in terms of crucial ligament damage vs tibia fractures.
Also pin bindings can be a lot more of a faff to get back into, especially after a fall on a steep slope.
If you are at the stage of improving your skiing with regular falls my advice would be to stick with Diamir Eagle (or possibly Marker f10/12) and consider pin bindings at sometime in the future; the weight saving with pin bindings won't really be much use unless you get lighter skis to go with them and know what sort of lighter skis you want when your skiing develops. Also you will keep the flexibility to use boots with non tech fittings.
1
In reply to Davelim8850:
One point to consider, some boots can't or shouldn't be used with frame bindings. Not sure about the Neos, but my TLT6s are for tech bindings only.
One point to consider, some boots can't or shouldn't be used with frame bindings. Not sure about the Neos, but my TLT6s are for tech bindings only.
In reply to Davelim8850:
I've never used the G3s so can't really comment but comparing the Radicals with the old Vertical heel block it's no contest - the flip-style heel raisers are so much easier to use.
Half a metre of freshies at Treble Cone last night. Happy days!
I've never used the G3s so can't really comment but comparing the Radicals with the old Vertical heel block it's no contest - the flip-style heel raisers are so much easier to use.
Half a metre of freshies at Treble Cone last night. Happy days!
1
In reply to AdrianC:
The G3 Ion is similarly easy to use the heel risers.
50cm! Maybe the season is going to finally get going! Locally only Temple Basin is getting much, supposedly over a meter in the next 3 days, but also the usual Westerlies that just blow it down the mountain again.
Heading up the Cass valley near Tekapo tomorrow, hoping there's snow up there.
The G3 Ion is similarly easy to use the heel risers.
50cm! Maybe the season is going to finally get going! Locally only Temple Basin is getting much, supposedly over a meter in the next 3 days, but also the usual Westerlies that just blow it down the mountain again.
Heading up the Cass valley near Tekapo tomorrow, hoping there's snow up there.
In reply to kevin stephens:
HI Kev - thanks for your lengthy comment - much appreciated as my thinking is similar too - get a binding which reliably pops on the guaranteed falls from a noob like me, andget up the learning +skills curve before moving to more tech bindings and expensive planks, as the resort/AT proportion of skiing shifts. Interesting to hear that the frame bindings do nicely on the downs..
HI Kev - thanks for your lengthy comment - much appreciated as my thinking is similar too - get a binding which reliably pops on the guaranteed falls from a noob like me, andget up the learning +skills curve before moving to more tech bindings and expensive planks, as the resort/AT proportion of skiing shifts. Interesting to hear that the frame bindings do nicely on the downs..
In reply to damowilk:
Hi Damowilk - I think the TLT 6s are exceptional in that the design changed the fit in bindings more dramatically than the other Dynafit boots....
Hi Damowilk - I think the TLT 6s are exceptional in that the design changed the fit in bindings more dramatically than the other Dynafit boots....
In reply to kevin stephens:
"The Eagles are fine on steep blacks top to bottom fast without stopping, I sometimes read of people finding them a bit sloppy but I've never noticed this; maybe heavier/faster/better skiers would - (I'm 150lb 5'5"")."
Thanks for sharing your weight/height here. Agree - many comments and posts about the topic of torsional rigidity sometimes lack context. If you are heavy and huck down steeps, I can understand how the single, central bar design of the Diamirs can be a bit flexy. I think the've tried to reduce that with wider attachments at toe and heel sections you you will need a lot more torque to twist the bar. I picked the Markers as they seemed to have the 'double' bar design with less torsion effects. I really appreciate people who share here with a bit of personal context - it helps get some perspective on tne tech vs frame debates, which ski, etc etc. Without this context: experience, preferred ski style, weight, height, preferred ski environment, its hard for people to make an informed decision about some gear. Thanks
"The Eagles are fine on steep blacks top to bottom fast without stopping, I sometimes read of people finding them a bit sloppy but I've never noticed this; maybe heavier/faster/better skiers would - (I'm 150lb 5'5"")."
Thanks for sharing your weight/height here. Agree - many comments and posts about the topic of torsional rigidity sometimes lack context. If you are heavy and huck down steeps, I can understand how the single, central bar design of the Diamirs can be a bit flexy. I think the've tried to reduce that with wider attachments at toe and heel sections you you will need a lot more torque to twist the bar. I picked the Markers as they seemed to have the 'double' bar design with less torsion effects. I really appreciate people who share here with a bit of personal context - it helps get some perspective on tne tech vs frame debates, which ski, etc etc. Without this context: experience, preferred ski style, weight, height, preferred ski environment, its hard for people to make an informed decision about some gear. Thanks
In reply to damowilk:
Is that true? I bought a pair of TLT6s second hand at Easter and although I was planning on getting tech bindings for them, I had looked at frame bindings for reasons of cost if nothing else - but good to know I have to go for tech ones. Thanks!
Reading this thread, skiers seem even more gear focused than many cyclists! So I wonder the people who said they found tech bindings too much faff, I guess you are coming from step-in piste gear? I've skied only telemark for 25 years: 3 pin, then cables then 7tms since 2001. I've done virtually all my ski mountaineering with my 7tm and and original Scarpa T2s (quite low), which are now 16 yrs old, until a couple of years ago on Senja I borrowed a friend's old skis with Fritschi bindings, his very old Scarpa touring boots (back when they only had one model) and shoved my teleboot liners in them. That's when I decided to get AT gear. I really should order some skis and bindings this summer when stuff is on sale. So interested in people's suggestions. I want real all rounder stuff - I'm most likely to be skiing in Scotland or North Norway and rarely use lifts - your average Lyngen day seems to be 1200 - 1400 mtrs of skinning.
> but my TLT6s are for tech bindings only.
Is that true? I bought a pair of TLT6s second hand at Easter and although I was planning on getting tech bindings for them, I had looked at frame bindings for reasons of cost if nothing else - but good to know I have to go for tech ones. Thanks!
Reading this thread, skiers seem even more gear focused than many cyclists! So I wonder the people who said they found tech bindings too much faff, I guess you are coming from step-in piste gear? I've skied only telemark for 25 years: 3 pin, then cables then 7tms since 2001. I've done virtually all my ski mountaineering with my 7tm and and original Scarpa T2s (quite low), which are now 16 yrs old, until a couple of years ago on Senja I borrowed a friend's old skis with Fritschi bindings, his very old Scarpa touring boots (back when they only had one model) and shoved my teleboot liners in them. That's when I decided to get AT gear. I really should order some skis and bindings this summer when stuff is on sale. So interested in people's suggestions. I want real all rounder stuff - I'm most likely to be skiing in Scotland or North Norway and rarely use lifts - your average Lyngen day seems to be 1200 - 1400 mtrs of skinning.
In reply to TobyA:
It has a short rockered sole so not recommended with frame bindings.
Toby, I only found them a faff in the context of having a one ski quiver so they were being used piste skiing and the lack of brakes, getting in and out of telecabines etc meant I was always the last one ready. For my needs, the Tour F12s served me best, for your, a tech binding would be my choice (i.e. 90% touring, rare lift usage)
Tech binding on a mid weight 90 - 100mm ski. Don't go too light on the ski if you actually enjoy the descent, you've got light boots and bindings, get a ski that has some oomph so you can enjoy the way back down.
> Is that true? I bought a pair of TLT6s second hand at Easter and although I was planning on getting tech bindings for them, I had looked at frame bindings for reasons of cost if nothing else - but good to know I have to go for tech ones. Thanks!
It has a short rockered sole so not recommended with frame bindings.
> Reading this thread, skiers seem even more gear focused than many cyclists! So I wonder the people who said they found tech bindings too much faff, I guess you are coming from step-in piste gear?
Toby, I only found them a faff in the context of having a one ski quiver so they were being used piste skiing and the lack of brakes, getting in and out of telecabines etc meant I was always the last one ready. For my needs, the Tour F12s served me best, for your, a tech binding would be my choice (i.e. 90% touring, rare lift usage)
> So interested in people's suggestions. I want real all rounder stuff - I'm most likely to be skiing in Scotland or North Norway and rarely use lifts - your average Lyngen day seems to be 1200 - 1400 mtrs of skinning.
Tech binding on a mid weight 90 - 100mm ski. Don't go too light on the ski if you actually enjoy the descent, you've got light boots and bindings, get a ski that has some oomph so you can enjoy the way back down.
3
In reply to TobyA:
Hey Toby - a great UK online shop is http://www.freezeproshop.com - lots of great summer deals there. i got my Marker Tour bindings there for GBP125 about US$40 - 60 cheaper than any other online store. Also , my Dynafit Neo boots on sale there for GBP190 or USD$250 - that's at least US$100 cheaper than any other online store; and I have been to plenty...Another good one based in the US is http://www.powder7.com. There all-skis sale ended last week, but they have limited brand sales still on. It seems summer is one of the best times to get stuff on sale, older models or demo stuff - as the Winter 2017 items start trickling in. Snowinn.com is also good as an aggregator store so you can compare prices for specific item across a whole bunch of sellers/shops. If you prefer to be patient and dont mind the sometimes quirkey peer-to-peer sales ( like buying from an individual on ebay), try http://www.geartrade.com
Hey Toby - a great UK online shop is http://www.freezeproshop.com - lots of great summer deals there. i got my Marker Tour bindings there for GBP125 about US$40 - 60 cheaper than any other online store. Also , my Dynafit Neo boots on sale there for GBP190 or USD$250 - that's at least US$100 cheaper than any other online store; and I have been to plenty...Another good one based in the US is http://www.powder7.com. There all-skis sale ended last week, but they have limited brand sales still on. It seems summer is one of the best times to get stuff on sale, older models or demo stuff - as the Winter 2017 items start trickling in. Snowinn.com is also good as an aggregator store so you can compare prices for specific item across a whole bunch of sellers/shops. If you prefer to be patient and dont mind the sometimes quirkey peer-to-peer sales ( like buying from an individual on ebay), try http://www.geartrade.com
1
In reply to TobyA:
a cursory prod any common web search will bring this up.....
to me it looks like they just cocked up the design; there are now boots that have dispensed with the toe lip completely so it's immediately obvious that they are pin only.
It must be the off season; usually any discussion on the relative merits of frame v pin bindings and the tribes out to war.
tends to bring out the dyna fanboys too; the brand can do no wrong........ worse than a room full of mac users
> Is that true?
I thought it was due to the pointlessly short and stubby toe lip, it doesn't sit in a frame binding properly.a cursory prod any common web search will bring this up.....
to me it looks like they just cocked up the design; there are now boots that have dispensed with the toe lip completely so it's immediately obvious that they are pin only.
> , skiers seem even more gear focused than many cyclists!
really?.... never!It must be the off season; usually any discussion on the relative merits of frame v pin bindings and the tribes out to war.
tends to bring out the dyna fanboys too; the brand can do no wrong........ worse than a room full of mac users
1
In reply to TobyA:
It's very like biking and the same N+1 equation for the correct numbers of skis applies!
There's no perfect or right answer for the ski and binding for a one quiver set: wider skis are more stable at speed and better in deep stuff, and more permissive of less than ideal technique, narrower skies are better in icy conditions, particularly on icy skin traverses, and better on the up.
Here in NZ the sweet spot is probably 85-95, though there's a noticeable trend to go wider.
I do sound a bit like a stuck record, but the G3 ion would be a good solution for you, not the newer lighter version that has no brakes. It's sturdy, not too heavy, and seems to guide my TLT6s nicely to the pins with the flick up boot guide. To compare, I've also used Plum Guides, Marker Kingpins, Kreuzsputze GTs, and the older Dynafit Radicals, all good, but the G3 Ion stands out.
If you think you might at some point get another set of skis, it's worth considering mounting the binding with quiver killers from the start: it's great to quickly swap one binding across several skis.
It's very like biking and the same N+1 equation for the correct numbers of skis applies!
There's no perfect or right answer for the ski and binding for a one quiver set: wider skis are more stable at speed and better in deep stuff, and more permissive of less than ideal technique, narrower skies are better in icy conditions, particularly on icy skin traverses, and better on the up.
Here in NZ the sweet spot is probably 85-95, though there's a noticeable trend to go wider.
I do sound a bit like a stuck record, but the G3 ion would be a good solution for you, not the newer lighter version that has no brakes. It's sturdy, not too heavy, and seems to guide my TLT6s nicely to the pins with the flick up boot guide. To compare, I've also used Plum Guides, Marker Kingpins, Kreuzsputze GTs, and the older Dynafit Radicals, all good, but the G3 Ion stands out.
If you think you might at some point get another set of skis, it's worth considering mounting the binding with quiver killers from the start: it's great to quickly swap one binding across several skis.
1
In reply to Davelim8850:
Get Hagans, technical bindings are not reliable...the weight saving is minimal if your fit...
Get Hagans, technical bindings are not reliable...the weight saving is minimal if your fit...
1
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