/ waterproof breathable shells

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no_more_scotch_eggs - on 18 Sep 2016
Looking for some advice as planning on replacing my jacket and trousers. Jacket was a rab eVent one, trousers were goretex. Both have put in a good shift but need put out to pasture.

But the price of goretex jacketsseems to have disappeared over the event horizon, 300 quid plus seemed to be the going rate, and im not paying that.

I've picked up a berghaus hydroshell jacket for 60, planning to use it for going to work or pub; but what are people's experiences of using it in more testing conditions? How much is the difference in performance to goretex noticeable? If there's a big difference I'll try to pick up a goretex one in the sales, but that's still looking like 200 quid at best, so if the hydroshell is decent I'll get another one of these. ...

Same for trousers- there were AQ2 ones for 60 vs 120, they didn't feel as robust but they looked like they would do. What are people's opinions on AQ2 vs goretex? Or are there other fabrics worth looking at?

Cheers

Gregor
MG - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Been happy with a 100 JackWolfskin jacket. Forget the fabric, but whatever they use.
TobyA on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

I haven't used any of them, but going on past designs and products I suspect the new Alpkit ones will be pretty hard to beat as value for money. Decathlon ones will also be well worth considering if you don't want to spend too much, although somehow Alpkit are still doing a good impression of being the plucky little upstarts you want to succeed rather than the international giant that is Decathlon.
bouldery bits - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

I'm a big fan of pertex shield+. Lightweight seema fairly hardy. I bung it over my Buffalo in truely grim conditions or use it for running / just in my pack just in case on good days.
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to TobyA:

Alpkit stuff does look promising- 120 for the jacket- anyone out there with experience of it on the hill?

The trousers only zip to the knee though- prefer an above knee one, less faffy....
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to bouldery bits:

Re pertex + - is that used in trousers too? And can it stand up to hours of proper Scottish rain. ..?
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to MG:

> Been happy with a 100 JackWolfskin jacket. Forget the fabric, but whatever they use.

Is it this one. ..?

https://m.blacks.co.uk/products/search?q=jack+wolfskin+men+s+arroyo+texapore+jacket+dark+blue&gc...
gethin_allen on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

When my current E-vent jacket gives in/starts leaking more than it always has I'm planning on going for a own brand material. I've always been super pleased with my berghaus deluge trousers made of AQ2 (aquafoil2) material and I imagine a jacket made from the same stuff would be great.
Tom Last - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

My Patagonia Torrentshell has been pretty bomber. Cost about 100 a few years back.
Orange - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Coming from the left field and probably unsuitable, but by far the cheapest option you'll find: army surplus. A goretex jacket will be around 25 and if you buy an RAF one they come in a fetching blue, which saves looking like a complete tool in camouflage.

You can also be sure it'll last, being built with abuse in mind. Weight is a concern however and the hood will not be helmet compatible.
jethro kiernan - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Rab Neo shell on sports pursuit for 134

https://www.sportpursuit.com/sales/rab-feb
MG - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Similar, certainly - I think my exact model was discontinued.

No lining in mine and a "proper" hood.
Post edited at 09:17
CharlieMack - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

The main difference between a membrane layer like goretex or event, and a PU coated material like AQ2 or Hydroshell is longevity. The latter are a nylon face fabric with a waterproof coating essentially painted on. As such, after a while they will start letting water in. This is obviously dependant on how much you use it and how well you look after it.
So if you're careful a cheap shell will last you a while if you keep it clean and reproof it.

The other main differences are the tailored finish and features like more waterproof zips and more substantial hoods.

Having a good big hood will obviously keep water out much better than one that barely comes over your face without a good peak.

So basically a cheap one will keep you as dry if you're more careful with it, and keep on top of water getting in the hood and zips where a more expensive jacket will allow you to be slightly lazier if that makes sense?

Just get what you can afford. But from experience I'd say a 100 jacket is twice as good as a 50, but a 200 isn't twice as good as a 100. The increase in performance different goes down in price, but the more expensive ones are better.
MG - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to CharlieMack:

It also helps to get over the belief you will stay dry - you won't! Wear clothes such as buffalo underneath so it matters less.
galpinos on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to MG:

> It also helps to get over the belief you will stay dry - you won't! Wear clothes such as buffalo underneath so it matters less.

......because you will be soaked from sweating your tits off in a Buffalo under a waterproof that you don't mind getting wet from the rain as well?

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to MG:

> It also helps to get over the belief you will stay dry - you won't! Wear clothes such as buffalo underneath so it matters less.

I disagree- i remember trekking in Patagonia in incessant heavy rain, and being dry as a bone under my goretex jacket and trousers. Keen to continue the tradition, but wondering if it can be done on the cheap!

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to CharlieMack:

thanks Charlie- so there is a fundamental difference in the construction between goretex and the various brands' intermediate priced shells, which might suit the lazier customer better...

I might give the AQ2 trousers a try, based on gethin_allen's recommendation, see how i get on with the Hydroshell jacket around town, and keep an eye out for discounts on the goretex options...
MG - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Don't believe it!!

Anyway, the fabric seems entirely waterproof and breathable, it's just I like doing things like breathing and using my hands, which results in holes!
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to MG:

Its true! Mind you the stuff was new at the time, and there wasn't much call to use hands for the most part, not much taking the shells on/off. And when the rain did stop it was also very much sunnier than here, so any wet kit dried out, and didnt have to get put back on wet, transferring the water from the outside to inner layers in the process. And mostly fairly level walking so not testing out the limits of breathability.

I have found that (right number of layers under the shell) to be critical- even in cold weather, anything more than a base layer under the jacket and i start pouring sweat out at a phenomenal rate and end up soaked anyway. And with paclite, even that didnt always help. If these other fabrics are more equivalent to paclite in breathability, then I would tend to move back towards proper goretex...
alasdair19 on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

no one's has mentioned paramo so I feel I should...

expensive but the durability is remarkable particularly good if your sweaty like me and you do get 2 layers! I've not used the trousers though.
nathan79 - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

AQ trousers are great value for money. I've got a couple of pairs. They work and they're breathable enough. If they had stretch, they'd be hard to beat.

AQ jackets (the one I have anyway) waterproof but not breathable enough for a hot box like me. I find the same with Pertex shield, though I've not tried shield +.
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to alasdair19:

I've got a paramo smock, which i use in winter, and think its brilliant. has struck me as possibly too hot, and heavy, for summer use, but then i haven't really given it a try. also, does it stand up to a proper scottish soaking...?

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to nathan79:

right- yes, i think i 'run hot' too, so wonder if the jacket would be breathable enough.

I think i'm sold on the trousers, though!

Siward on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Goretex is so well established these days that there are any number of top quality used (but nearly new) buys to be had. Why not ask on these very forums?
CharlieMack - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

For what it's worth, i tend to use own brand material jackets and trousers for summer use (Mountain Equipment Drilite), and Goretex in winter where i know it's going to get much more battered around.

So i opt for a top end jacket made from Drilite, which gives loads of good features, but is 100+ cheaper than a Gortex jacket that's not quite as well finished.

If you're aware of each materials' limitations, you can pick up exactly what you need.

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