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The mountain bike I bought earlier this summer came with tubeless ready rims and tyres (WTB Scraper and WTB Bridger 27.5 plus x 3") and as it has no suspension I want to set it up tubeless so I can lower the tyre pressure and hopefully not have anymore teeth rattle out while descending rocky paths of the High Peak!
So today I bought a tubeless kit (Joe's) in order to give it a go. I've read the instructions, read some online articles, watched a youtube video, prepared some soapy water for reasons I don't fully understand yet - what else do I need to do? And if my rims are tubeless ready, will I need to fit the rubber liner thingy that goes over the rim tape that came in the Joe's kit?
The bloke in Decathlon who checked the price of the kit for me asked if I had set tubeless wheels up before - I said no but a couple of mates had told me it was great and I should do it, he said "hmmm, I reckon you should get them to do it for you then if they're so good at it!" So please hold my cyber hand and tell me its all going to be alright. Having said that a bloke in a bike shop in Helsinki about 8 years ago said pretty much the same when I bought a bleed kit for my first hydraulic brakes, but that turned out to be a doddle.
Post edited at 22:21
In reply to TobyA:
I'm fairly inept but managed it....
Taking the time to make one of these was life saver
http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/article/how-to-make-a-tubeless-inflator-4...
I'm fairly inept but managed it....
Taking the time to make one of these was life saver
http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/article/how-to-make-a-tubeless-inflator-4...
Post edited at 23:05
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In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):
Think there was a thread about this a few months back with loads of good tips if you do a search.
I wish I'd had a device like in the link above ehen i converted to tubeless that is geneius!
Think there was a thread about this a few months back with loads of good tips if you do a search.
I wish I'd had a device like in the link above ehen i converted to tubeless that is geneius!
Post edited at 01:18
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In reply to ebdon:
This one
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=645569&v=1#x8345021
it was tips to me on how to do it!
This one
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=645569&v=1#x8345021
it was tips to me on how to do it!
1
In reply to TobyA:
I've also got a mid fat hardtail with scraper rims and getting the tires to do the initial seat is much trickier than normal tires on standard rims (which I can do zero hassle nowadays). Even with a compressor and an Airshot can it can take some perseverance with these bigger volume tires.
Once a tire has been on the rim, second time around is a lot easier (tires seem to get a 'memory'). That said, getting tires off the scraper rims is quite a task as they seat so well.
If you completely fail, I'm out in the Hope Valley if you want a second pair of hands or want to borrow my Airshot (www.airshotltd.com).
I've also got a mid fat hardtail with scraper rims and getting the tires to do the initial seat is much trickier than normal tires on standard rims (which I can do zero hassle nowadays). Even with a compressor and an Airshot can it can take some perseverance with these bigger volume tires.
Once a tire has been on the rim, second time around is a lot easier (tires seem to get a 'memory'). That said, getting tires off the scraper rims is quite a task as they seat so well.
If you completely fail, I'm out in the Hope Valley if you want a second pair of hands or want to borrow my Airshot (www.airshotltd.com).
1
In reply to TobyA:
I've always found it fairly straight forward (although with smaller volume tyres) using a ghetto inflator as in the link - you'll need more volume so you may wish to use a 3l (or bigger if you can find it) bottle; it will obviously still need to be some sort of fizzy drink bottle to ensure it can stand the pressure.
A few other points:
- I always wear safety glasses (well my clear Mtb glasses) as a half arsed nod to health and safety.
- Worth taking a bit of time to make sure you get the rim tape on correctly - gorilla duct tape works just as well as Stans (although it is more of a pain to remove) and works out a bit cheaper.
- Some tyre and rim combos just don't work together despite both allegedly being tubeless compatible - shouldn't be an issue for you.
- When you're initially trying to inflate / blow the tyre onto the rim it's worth removing the valve core to allow max air flow. Once the tyre's seated on the rim you can remove the ghetto inflator, allow the tyre to deflate (tyre should remain seated), add fluid, replace the valve core and pump up normally.
- You'll probably need more fluid than you think and you will need to top it up over time as it leaks out / drys up - I find a syringe into the valve (obviously with the core removed) is the easiest.
- Going for a ride is the easiest way of ensuring the fluid is well distributed around the tyre. Don't be surprised if you need to pump up your tyres before each ride for the first few rides.
I've always found it fairly straight forward (although with smaller volume tyres) using a ghetto inflator as in the link - you'll need more volume so you may wish to use a 3l (or bigger if you can find it) bottle; it will obviously still need to be some sort of fizzy drink bottle to ensure it can stand the pressure.
A few other points:
- I always wear safety glasses (well my clear Mtb glasses) as a half arsed nod to health and safety.
- Worth taking a bit of time to make sure you get the rim tape on correctly - gorilla duct tape works just as well as Stans (although it is more of a pain to remove) and works out a bit cheaper.
- Some tyre and rim combos just don't work together despite both allegedly being tubeless compatible - shouldn't be an issue for you.
- When you're initially trying to inflate / blow the tyre onto the rim it's worth removing the valve core to allow max air flow. Once the tyre's seated on the rim you can remove the ghetto inflator, allow the tyre to deflate (tyre should remain seated), add fluid, replace the valve core and pump up normally.
- You'll probably need more fluid than you think and you will need to top it up over time as it leaks out / drys up - I find a syringe into the valve (obviously with the core removed) is the easiest.
- Going for a ride is the easiest way of ensuring the fluid is well distributed around the tyre. Don't be surprised if you need to pump up your tyres before each ride for the first few rides.
Post edited at 14:14
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In reply to TobyA:
Oh and this might be of interest if you want to run really low pressures:
http://singletrackworld.com/2016/09/eurobike-2016-huck-norris-tubeless-punc...
Oh and this might be of interest if you want to run really low pressures:
http://singletrackworld.com/2016/09/eurobike-2016-huck-norris-tubeless-punc...
1
In reply to Tallie:
Good set of tips there.
I also wear ear defenders after a few incidents!
One of my doctor friends also warned me to keep hands off the wheel when inflating to higher pressures with compressor - there have been some nasty hand injuries from exploding tires.
These higher volume tires are much trickier than their lower volume cousins - well my experience on scraper rims anyway.
I tend to try the initial seating without any fluid - if it works, much less less potential for mess. Though these large tires tend to need some fluid to help the initial seal. And try with valve in first, then out if no luck.
Good set of tips there.
> - I always wear safety glasses (well my clear Mtb glasses) as a half arsed nod to health and safety.
I also wear ear defenders after a few incidents!
One of my doctor friends also warned me to keep hands off the wheel when inflating to higher pressures with compressor - there have been some nasty hand injuries from exploding tires.
These higher volume tires are much trickier than their lower volume cousins - well my experience on scraper rims anyway.
I tend to try the initial seating without any fluid - if it works, much less less potential for mess. Though these large tires tend to need some fluid to help the initial seal. And try with valve in first, then out if no luck.
1
In reply to Tallie:
Thanks very much Tallie (and all others). I think this is a bit more of a "proj" than I originally thought. As a relatively new teacher I find myself working stupid hours and when I'm not actually working (this weekend so far) I feel guilty that I'm not working - so spare time has become hugely more valuable than it was a couple of years ago when I had more of it. I was going to have a go at setting them up tubeless last night, but my better half made the very rare decision that she wanted to go for bike ride today, so I decided to wait in order to have my MTB ready for riding today. We just had a lovely tootle around the Derwent Reservoirs (and one bit of rocky bridal way at the far northern end of the loop reminded me why I want my tyres a few PSI softer than they are now!) but building my "ghetto" compressor and having a go at doing them will become an evening project for some future free evening when I don't want to ride the bike the next day! Thanks again all for the very helpful advice.
Thanks very much Tallie (and all others). I think this is a bit more of a "proj" than I originally thought. As a relatively new teacher I find myself working stupid hours and when I'm not actually working (this weekend so far) I feel guilty that I'm not working - so spare time has become hugely more valuable than it was a couple of years ago when I had more of it. I was going to have a go at setting them up tubeless last night, but my better half made the very rare decision that she wanted to go for bike ride today, so I decided to wait in order to have my MTB ready for riding today. We just had a lovely tootle around the Derwent Reservoirs (and one bit of rocky bridal way at the far northern end of the loop reminded me why I want my tyres a few PSI softer than they are now!) but building my "ghetto" compressor and having a go at doing them will become an evening project for some future free evening when I don't want to ride the bike the next day! Thanks again all for the very helpful advice.
1
In reply to ChrisJD:
Chris - that's a very kind offer - I'll give it a go at home at some point soon, but if I'm not having any luck I may well take you up on your offer and drop in if we can find a time that is convenient for you!
I bought the Vertebrae MTB guides to Dark and White Peak earlier when coming back through Hathersage - now looking forward to getting some of the routes done on days that aren't so great for climbing. I'm quite pleased that my first 'proper' Peak MTB ride I did two weeks ago, is pretty much one of the routes in the book that is described as one of the best rides in the country. It was nice! And I must have an eye for a good circuit. I did it the opposite way from what they suggest, so I did push up Jacobs Ladder for some way, but enjoyed the descent from Hollins Cross down into Edale at the end.
Chris - that's a very kind offer - I'll give it a go at home at some point soon, but if I'm not having any luck I may well take you up on your offer and drop in if we can find a time that is convenient for you!
I bought the Vertebrae MTB guides to Dark and White Peak earlier when coming back through Hathersage - now looking forward to getting some of the routes done on days that aren't so great for climbing. I'm quite pleased that my first 'proper' Peak MTB ride I did two weeks ago, is pretty much one of the routes in the book that is described as one of the best rides in the country. It was nice! And I must have an eye for a good circuit. I did it the opposite way from what they suggest, so I did push up Jacobs Ladder for some way, but enjoyed the descent from Hollins Cross down into Edale at the end.
1
In reply to TobyA:
That loop is a classic - I prefer t the other way round as the decent down Jacobs is a cracker.
Good luck with the tubeless adventure, you'll find your own way of sorting it I'm sure,
Hope the tips on this (and previous threads) help you along
That loop is a classic - I prefer t the other way round as the decent down Jacobs is a cracker.
Good luck with the tubeless adventure, you'll find your own way of sorting it I'm sure,
Hope the tips on this (and previous threads) help you along
1
In reply to ChrisJD:
Today I was looking up the Cut Gate path from the bottom and want to do that one now too. I remember looking at that line on the map when I only had my CX, having seen it on the ground now as it were, I'm glad i didn't try it on the CX!
Today I was looking up the Cut Gate path from the bottom and want to do that one now too. I remember looking at that line on the map when I only had my CX, having seen it on the ground now as it were, I'm glad i didn't try it on the CX!
2
In reply to TobyA:
Toby - you're very welcome, some slight payback for all the useful reviews over the years...
A couple of other thoughts if you find you're struggling to get a tyre to seat:
- putting an inner tube in, inflating and only unseating one side to remove the tube can help.
- Using a belt or strap to squash the tyre as it's inflating can also be useful.
You'll probably be fine though - ime when messing around with bikes those jobs you expect to be complete nightmares normally go smoothly (with the exception of bleeding avid brakes) it's the "5 minute" jobs (normally on the morning of a ride) that always go hideously wrong. That could just be me though.
Toby - you're very welcome, some slight payback for all the useful reviews over the years...
A couple of other thoughts if you find you're struggling to get a tyre to seat:
- putting an inner tube in, inflating and only unseating one side to remove the tube can help.
- Using a belt or strap to squash the tyre as it's inflating can also be useful.
You'll probably be fine though - ime when messing around with bikes those jobs you expect to be complete nightmares normally go smoothly (with the exception of bleeding avid brakes) it's the "5 minute" jobs (normally on the morning of a ride) that always go hideously wrong. That could just be me though.
3
In reply to Tallie:
I've done 100 odd kms with those tyres on the bike already - but with the inner tube in, so I should be covered on the 'getting the tyre to right sort of shape with an inner bit'.
I will let everyone know if it goes remarkably well or badly!
I've done 100 odd kms with those tyres on the bike already - but with the inner tube in, so I should be covered on the 'getting the tyre to right sort of shape with an inner bit'.
I will let everyone know if it goes remarkably well or badly!
1
In reply to TobyA:
My one piece of advice is to make sure the rim and tyre are spotlessly clean. If you have little dings these can be dealt with, bigger ones not so much. Get the tyres all wet and soapy and don't let them dry (but get excess water out). I find a first inflation using a normal track pump but with the core removed from the valve to seat the tyre works a treat, then add your goo through the valve put the core back in and re-inflate
Once you've done it you won't look back.
My one piece of advice is to make sure the rim and tyre are spotlessly clean. If you have little dings these can be dealt with, bigger ones not so much. Get the tyres all wet and soapy and don't let them dry (but get excess water out). I find a first inflation using a normal track pump but with the core removed from the valve to seat the tyre works a treat, then add your goo through the valve put the core back in and re-inflate
Once you've done it you won't look back.
1
In reply to Tallie:
A SYRINGE!!! I've been searching for a teeny-tiny funnel but a syringe makes so much more sense..... what an obvious solution that totally passed me by....D'oh!
> - You'll probably need more fluid than you think and you will need to top it up over time as it leaks out / drys up - I find a syringe into the valve (obviously with the core removed) is the easiest.
A SYRINGE!!! I've been searching for a teeny-tiny funnel but a syringe makes so much more sense..... what an obvious solution that totally passed me by....D'oh!
2
1
In reply to TobyA:
Hi. I'm doing the same as the p. And I want an answer to the same question. If my wheels are tubeless ready, do I need to put a rim strip over the rim tape?
Hi. I'm doing the same as the p. And I want an answer to the same question. If my wheels are tubeless ready, do I need to put a rim strip over the rim tape?
1
In reply to tonanf:
Normally, in my experience, you need to use some form of rim tape to stop air leaking out from the spoke holes unless it's a UST (Universal Standard Tubeless) rim which is airtight.
You can use Stans tape, the rubber you get in a kit or (the ghetto option) gorilla duct tape or even electrical tape.
This link may be useful:
http://www.wtb.com/pages/wheels
Normally, in my experience, you need to use some form of rim tape to stop air leaking out from the spoke holes unless it's a UST (Universal Standard Tubeless) rim which is airtight.
You can use Stans tape, the rubber you get in a kit or (the ghetto option) gorilla duct tape or even electrical tape.
This link may be useful:
http://www.wtb.com/pages/wheels
In reply to Tallie:
From that page:
"In case of Tubeless application with a Tubeless or TCS Tire, a special air tight tape must be used with WTB Rims, or a special UST Rim must be fitted to the bicycle. Visit WTB.com for a more detailed explanation."
So that sounds like I (and tonanf) will still need to put the tape on if I understand correctly. I imagine once I actually get the tyres off and the tubes out it will be more apparent!
From that page:
"In case of Tubeless application with a Tubeless or TCS Tire, a special air tight tape must be used with WTB Rims, or a special UST Rim must be fitted to the bicycle. Visit WTB.com for a more detailed explanation."
So that sounds like I (and tonanf) will still need to put the tape on if I understand correctly. I imagine once I actually get the tyres off and the tubes out it will be more apparent!
In reply to TobyA:
That was my reading of the site, the only rims that I'm aware of that don't need tape are UST ones; although standards change so often I may have missed something.
There's normally rim tape already there but it's not air tight so you need to remove it and replace it with whatever your using to make the rim air tight.
> From that page:
> "In case of Tubeless application with a Tubeless or TCS Tire, a special air tight tape must be used with WTB Rims, or a special UST Rim must be fitted to the bicycle. Visit WTB.com for a more detailed explanation."
That was my reading of the site, the only rims that I'm aware of that don't need tape are UST ones; although standards change so often I may have missed something.
> So that sounds like I (and tonanf) will still need to put the tape on if I understand correctly. I imagine once I actually get the tyres off and the tubes out it will be more apparent!
There's normally rim tape already there but it's not air tight so you need to remove it and replace it with whatever your using to make the rim air tight.
1
In reply to TobyA:
I don't understand the reasoning behind tubeless tyres.
What if you are cornering at speed and they come off the rim?
It's bad enough if you have a blow out with tube tyres?
I don't understand the reasoning behind tubeless tyres.
What if you are cornering at speed and they come off the rim?
It's bad enough if you have a blow out with tube tyres?
1
In reply to Dave the Rave:
Better puncture resistance and you can run them at lower pressures.
> I don't understand the reasoning behind tubeless tyres.
Better puncture resistance and you can run them at lower pressures.
In reply to KevinD:
I don't get it. How can 1 layer of rubber be more puncture resistant than 2?
And why does lower pressure matter in the real world of cycling ?
Are we talking second gains in a race or riding for fun?
Ps
Not a feckin scooby
> Better puncture resistance and you can run them at lower pressures.
I don't get it. How can 1 layer of rubber be more puncture resistant than 2?
And why does lower pressure matter in the real world of cycling ?
Are we talking second gains in a race or riding for fun?
Ps
Not a feckin scooby
Post edited at 23:15
1
In reply to Dave the Rave:
Some tubeless tyres are reinforced with more than just rubber, kevalr for instance, to reduce likelihood of punctures. i.e. tubeless tyre with puncture protection is better than one normal tyre plus tube.
Lower pressures give tonnes more grip. With a tube in, the pressure must be higher to avoid pinch punctures, these are eliminated with tubeless. Even with a wide tyre and tube you need 30-35psi minimum, same width tyre tubeless (depending on what you weigh) you can run 20-25psi no problem, some run lower. This means a very noticeable improvement in grip especially on rock. It gives a very substantial performance improvement, means you can go faster and with more confidence, needs to be ridden to e understood. It isn't just about punctures. If you run normal tyres over rocky ground at lower pressures you run the risk of pinches or gashes in the tyre. Tubeless tyres with reinforcement protect against rock tears as well as allowing you to run lower psi for same weight. Thimgs have moved on quite a bit in MTB technology.
Some tubeless tyres are reinforced with more than just rubber, kevalr for instance, to reduce likelihood of punctures. i.e. tubeless tyre with puncture protection is better than one normal tyre plus tube.
Lower pressures give tonnes more grip. With a tube in, the pressure must be higher to avoid pinch punctures, these are eliminated with tubeless. Even with a wide tyre and tube you need 30-35psi minimum, same width tyre tubeless (depending on what you weigh) you can run 20-25psi no problem, some run lower. This means a very noticeable improvement in grip especially on rock. It gives a very substantial performance improvement, means you can go faster and with more confidence, needs to be ridden to e understood. It isn't just about punctures. If you run normal tyres over rocky ground at lower pressures you run the risk of pinches or gashes in the tyre. Tubeless tyres with reinforcement protect against rock tears as well as allowing you to run lower psi for same weight. Thimgs have moved on quite a bit in MTB technology.
1
In reply to IceKing:
And added to what Iceking said, tubeless tytes have sealant in so if you get a thorn that would pierce a tyre and tube and cause a puncture, a tubeless setup will seal it in seconds or minutes 19 times out of 20. Often you won't even know whereas with a tube you will have to stop and fix a puncture.
And added to what Iceking said, tubeless tytes have sealant in so if you get a thorn that would pierce a tyre and tube and cause a puncture, a tubeless setup will seal it in seconds or minutes 19 times out of 20. Often you won't even know whereas with a tube you will have to stop and fix a puncture.
In reply to Dave the Rave:
Crikey, you really don't have a clue!
> I don't understand the reasoning behind tubeless tyres.
> What if you are cornering at speed and they come off the rim?
> It's bad enough if you have a blow out with tube tyres?
> I don't get it
> And why does lower pressure matter in the real world of cycling ?
> What if you are cornering at speed and they come off the rim?
> It's bad enough if you have a blow out with tube tyres?
> I don't get it
> And why does lower pressure matter in the real world of cycling ?
Crikey, you really don't have a clue!
3
In reply to ChrisJD:
He has a point regarding tyres unseating or "burping" on corners.
A very un-scientific survey of riders at whistler concluded only a quarter of riders using tubeless, some using a mixture front and back and a lot of people saying they didn't use them because of the burping issues and the fact that the sealant dries out/needs replacing/makes a mess when the tyre fails.
> Crikey, you really don't have a clue!
He has a point regarding tyres unseating or "burping" on corners.
A very un-scientific survey of riders at whistler concluded only a quarter of riders using tubeless, some using a mixture front and back and a lot of people saying they didn't use them because of the burping issues and the fact that the sealant dries out/needs replacing/makes a mess when the tyre fails.
In reply to gethin_allen:
Only normally an issue if you haven't got the set up right.
There is a learning curve going tubeless to find the right combo of front/rear tires and pressures to suit your riding style, riding location, bike and current rims.
Only normally an issue if you haven't got the set up right.
There is a learning curve going tubeless to find the right combo of front/rear tires and pressures to suit your riding style, riding location, bike and current rims.
Post edited at 10:17
In reply to ChrisJD:
To me this reads "you need to buy and try loads of tyres and suffer for a while until you get it sorted". And regarding "current rims", since the advent of disc brakes about 17 years ago I don't think I've knackered a rim, so current rims are the same rims as I've had for x years.
I'm a bit of a Luddite when it comes to MTB riding, my "new" bike is five years old and has 26 inch tyres with tubes obviously and I really wouldn't want to faff with going tubeless because I've never found my tyres to be holding me back and I wouldn't want to run silly low pressures anyway. I see tubeless tyres as another thing get get people to spend money.
> Only normally an issue if you haven't got the set up right.
> There is a learning curve going tubeless to find the right combo of front/rear tires and pressures to suit your riding style, riding location, bike and current rims.
To me this reads "you need to buy and try loads of tyres and suffer for a while until you get it sorted". And regarding "current rims", since the advent of disc brakes about 17 years ago I don't think I've knackered a rim, so current rims are the same rims as I've had for x years.
I'm a bit of a Luddite when it comes to MTB riding, my "new" bike is five years old and has 26 inch tyres with tubes obviously and I really wouldn't want to faff with going tubeless because I've never found my tyres to be holding me back and I wouldn't want to run silly low pressures anyway. I see tubeless tyres as another thing get get people to spend money.
In reply to gethin_allen:
Lol, well we are clearly coming at this from completely different ends of the spectrum.
Been riding MTBs for 34 years now (you're only 33 !) and have always embraced the new. Modern bikes just so awesome!
I ride bikes pretty hard/fast and punctures used to be the bain of my riding.
Since going tubeless, they are now a thing of the past and I'm now riding faster than ever (down the hill). And this years riding on my main bike has included two Alps trips, two Spanish trips and seven Enduro races (with podiums in Grand Vets as well): and no punctures ..... well that cursed the final Enduro race this weekend!
And that's running 16-18 psi front and 18-20 psi back on 2.4 tires.
Frankly, you are talking bolx (no offence meant). Tubeless is one of the great advances in MTBs in recent years and is up there with sorted F/R suspension and dropper posts.
Lol, well we are clearly coming at this from completely different ends of the spectrum.
Been riding MTBs for 34 years now (you're only 33 !) and have always embraced the new. Modern bikes just so awesome!
I ride bikes pretty hard/fast and punctures used to be the bain of my riding.
Since going tubeless, they are now a thing of the past and I'm now riding faster than ever (down the hill). And this years riding on my main bike has included two Alps trips, two Spanish trips and seven Enduro races (with podiums in Grand Vets as well): and no punctures ..... well that cursed the final Enduro race this weekend!
And that's running 16-18 psi front and 18-20 psi back on 2.4 tires.
> I see tubeless tyres as another thing get get people to spend money.
Frankly, you are talking bolx (no offence meant). Tubeless is one of the great advances in MTBs in recent years and is up there with sorted F/R suspension and dropper posts.
2
In reply to ChrisJD:
Completly agree - tubeless is a game changer. I've only ever burped a tyre once and that wasn't cornering but trying too big a drop to flat on a hardtail without enough air in the tyre, ie my own fault.
> Frankly, you are talking bolx (no offence meant). Tubeless is one of the great advances in MTBs in recent years and is up there with sorted F/R suspension and dropper posts.
Completly agree - tubeless is a game changer. I've only ever burped a tyre once and that wasn't cornering but trying too big a drop to flat on a hardtail without enough air in the tyre, ie my own fault.
1
In reply to ChrisJD:
Exactly. As I said, not a scooby.
Thanks for your input. I now have a clue, but, not much.
> Crikey, you really don't have a clue!
Exactly. As I said, not a scooby.
Thanks for your input. I now have a clue, but, not much.
2
In reply to Tallie:
Wow! I'm going to 'burp' then have a look at me spare tyre.
> Completly agree - tubeless is a game changer. I've only ever burped a tyre once and that wasn't cornering but trying too big a drop to flat on a hardtail without enough air in the tyre, ie my own fault.
Wow! I'm going to 'burp' then have a look at me spare tyre.
In reply to gethin_allen:
Not that this is relevent to the op but I've just recently changed from an old skool 26 inch xc hardtail to a modern 65b trail bike with tubless tyres and will happily confirm from everthing from trail centers to long days out in the hills it is loads better, and i loved my old bike! I also have yet to get a puncture with tubless.
Not that this is relevent to the op but I've just recently changed from an old skool 26 inch xc hardtail to a modern 65b trail bike with tubless tyres and will happily confirm from everthing from trail centers to long days out in the hills it is loads better, and i loved my old bike! I also have yet to get a puncture with tubless.
In reply to ChrisJD:
I do ride road mostly now but I'm not too much of a bumbling fool, I've done numerous alps trips and at 16 years old I did the avalanche cup course in morzine/avoriaz on a bike with cantilever brakes and 3 inches of front suspension (that was high tech at the time).
I don't really see that this is relevant as ninety percent or more of people will relate to my style of riding for a bit of a laugh rather than the podium chasing you do.
I do ride road mostly now but I'm not too much of a bumbling fool, I've done numerous alps trips and at 16 years old I did the avalanche cup course in morzine/avoriaz on a bike with cantilever brakes and 3 inches of front suspension (that was high tech at the time).
I don't really see that this is relevant as ninety percent or more of people will relate to my style of riding for a bit of a laugh rather than the podium chasing you do.
In reply to gethin_allen:
If it's lighter (took me time to track down a spare inner tube for my new 650plus tyres and when I did its a) a big lump of rubber and b) twice the price I've ever paid for a tube before), grippier, and punctures less, what's wrong with it? The conversion kit I've got cost 17 quid from Decathlon, not peanuts but not too much and hopefully I'll never need to buy and inner tube for that bike again. Not a saving but probably cost neutral.
If it's lighter (took me time to track down a spare inner tube for my new 650plus tyres and when I did its a) a big lump of rubber and b) twice the price I've ever paid for a tube before), grippier, and punctures less, what's wrong with it? The conversion kit I've got cost 17 quid from Decathlon, not peanuts but not too much and hopefully I'll never need to buy and inner tube for that bike again. Not a saving but probably cost neutral.
In reply to gethin_allen:
It's rose-tinted nostalgia to think that was 'high tech' at the time.
Here's my ride from 16 years ago (Ellsworth Aeon Isis Joker). Full susp, six inches (of really rubbish) rear travel, front & rear disks. Look at the length of that stem! Still got that saddle somewhere in the garage. And before that it was a 957 and a 954 Proflex!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mj6d71i6f5ffm0r/AA_4938_025.jpg?dl=0
So glad the good old days of biking have gone!
> at 16 years old I did the avalanche cup course in morzine/avoriaz on a bike with cantilever brakes and 3 inches of front suspension (that was high tech at the time).
It's rose-tinted nostalgia to think that was 'high tech' at the time.
Here's my ride from 16 years ago (Ellsworth Aeon Isis Joker). Full susp, six inches (of really rubbish) rear travel, front & rear disks. Look at the length of that stem! Still got that saddle somewhere in the garage. And before that it was a 957 and a 954 Proflex!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mj6d71i6f5ffm0r/AA_4938_025.jpg?dl=0
So glad the good old days of biking have gone!
1
In reply to ChrisJD:
I'll let you into a secret, my profile is out of date, when I was 16 rear suspension was so useless that it wasn't worth having (you're right when you think about proflex with their lumps of plastic masquerading as suspension and things like the girvin flex system stems and plus four parallelagram forks), that's why I only had front sus. The only disk brakes I remember were the hope C2 that were really a bit rubbish and had to be fiddled with constantly. And I'm quite sure the elsworth bikes didn't come around for a while later. I moved to a specialized fsr around 2000 because at that point I thought the suspension was worth having and I moved to disc brakes around then too because I was wearing out rims and couldn't afford to keep destroying wheels. Since then I don't think there have been any massive non evolutionary changes in bikes. Things have got lighter/stronger/bigger/smaller/more powerful but all just refinements. Stable platform damping in suspension was a nice little step but somewhat evolutionary. Since I bought my newest bike I haven't really felt the need for anything else, I do sometimes think the frame is a little long for me but that was a compromise of uses and being between sizes.
I'll let you into a secret, my profile is out of date, when I was 16 rear suspension was so useless that it wasn't worth having (you're right when you think about proflex with their lumps of plastic masquerading as suspension and things like the girvin flex system stems and plus four parallelagram forks), that's why I only had front sus. The only disk brakes I remember were the hope C2 that were really a bit rubbish and had to be fiddled with constantly. And I'm quite sure the elsworth bikes didn't come around for a while later. I moved to a specialized fsr around 2000 because at that point I thought the suspension was worth having and I moved to disc brakes around then too because I was wearing out rims and couldn't afford to keep destroying wheels. Since then I don't think there have been any massive non evolutionary changes in bikes. Things have got lighter/stronger/bigger/smaller/more powerful but all just refinements. Stable platform damping in suspension was a nice little step but somewhat evolutionary. Since I bought my newest bike I haven't really felt the need for anything else, I do sometimes think the frame is a little long for me but that was a compromise of uses and being between sizes.
In reply to gethin_allen:
The yellow blobs of elastmoer! Ok in summer, rock solid in winter, lol. To be fair to Proflex though, the later 957 has non-elastomer damper (I'll refrain from calling in them shocks). I had a pair of the carbon legged parallelogram forks - they were lovely to look at and kept them for many years - eventually sold them on Ebay for £300!
>The only disk brakes I remember were the hope C2 that were really a bit rubbish and had to be fiddled with constantly.
Yep, I had some of those, they were crap; and they boiled up and quickly became useless.
I'd disagree, full sus & hard tail mountain bikes have undergone a major step up in the last few years with bigger wheels, lighter frames and longer, lower and slacker geometry; and 1x drive trains, now giving 12 speed on a 10-50t cassette! ... and of course tubeless I'd avoid hyperbole like revolutionary, but the pace of change has been very fast. The emerging range of long travel, low, slack 29ers are very cool. The next big step will be gearboxes for the masses.
Case in point: see ebdon's post at 00:19 Sat
(You could say that e-bikes are also revolutionary..., but lets not go there for now!)
> proflex with their lumps of plastic masquerading as suspension and things like the girvin flex system stems and plus four parallelagram forks), that's why I only had front sus.
The yellow blobs of elastmoer! Ok in summer, rock solid in winter, lol. To be fair to Proflex though, the later 957 has non-elastomer damper (I'll refrain from calling in them shocks). I had a pair of the carbon legged parallelogram forks - they were lovely to look at and kept them for many years - eventually sold them on Ebay for £300!
>The only disk brakes I remember were the hope C2 that were really a bit rubbish and had to be fiddled with constantly.
Yep, I had some of those, they were crap; and they boiled up and quickly became useless.
> Since then I don't think there have been any massive non evolutionary changes in bikes. Things have got lighter/stronger/bigger/smaller/more powerful but all just refinements.
I'd disagree, full sus & hard tail mountain bikes have undergone a major step up in the last few years with bigger wheels, lighter frames and longer, lower and slacker geometry; and 1x drive trains, now giving 12 speed on a 10-50t cassette! ... and of course tubeless I'd avoid hyperbole like revolutionary, but the pace of change has been very fast. The emerging range of long travel, low, slack 29ers are very cool. The next big step will be gearboxes for the masses.
Case in point: see ebdon's post at 00:19 Sat
(You could say that e-bikes are also revolutionary..., but lets not go there for now!)
In reply to ChrisJD:
I saw three blokes on KTM e-bikes out at Afan Argoed yesterday, I just about managed to cough out in a joking way that they were cheating as I passed them on a steep climb. Not quite sure why they were stopped on the side of the track, they were fairly un-streamlined chaps so maybe their batteries had already run out.
> (You could say that e-bikes are also revolutionary..., but lets not go there for now!)
I saw three blokes on KTM e-bikes out at Afan Argoed yesterday, I just about managed to cough out in a joking way that they were cheating as I passed them on a steep climb. Not quite sure why they were stopped on the side of the track, they were fairly un-streamlined chaps so maybe their batteries had already run out.
In reply to ChrisJD:
No, really haven't had the chance yet - bits of the last weekends when I wasn't working I chose to go climbing instead. I did drink a lot of co-op's finest dandelion and burdock to get a bottle to make a compressor with though.
Now I'm finally on holiday (greetings from Morocco!) so it's on the back burner for the time being.
No, really haven't had the chance yet - bits of the last weekends when I wasn't working I chose to go climbing instead. I did drink a lot of co-op's finest dandelion and burdock to get a bottle to make a compressor with though.
Now I'm finally on holiday (greetings from Morocco!) so it's on the back burner for the time being.
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