UKC

So, after waving my relatively new Switches around above my head in my living room for an evening I'm still undecided - with or without pick weights for ice? Advice from those who have used them on ice welcome! Many thanks.

I thought they were heavy enough without the weights. Too heavy in fact.

When placing from below a bulge into relatively flat ice, forget it. Pick angle is totally useless and it will bounce off. It's easier to place in the bulge and then climb up ontop to kind of mantle onto the shelf. Really useful on steep pocketed ice because of the same feature. Also find them considerably worse on dense water ice than others. This Feb I was climbing with a buddy who had bd vipers. Where he was getting clean first or second try sticks, I was plating the ice, something whilst gently placing in his holes..

Definitely with weights.

I’ve just used mine for a week in Rjukan and, despite being similar weights, my mate’s Edelrid Riot’s seemed to be sticking a lot easier. 

I was planning on swapping the picks for Krukonogis but they’re now unavailable (Russian). Will have to start swinging harder!

Ok. So differing opinions so far on weights. I was thinking without, but I've packed the weights and an alan key in my belay jacket.

I really like the axes for mixed, but have niggling doubts after the little ice I've climbed with them. We'll see!

In relation to pick angle - the mixed picks are steeper than the ice picks, but I don't know if it actually makes a real world difference(?) 

I've not found any need for weights on mid grade  Scottish ice with apexes, but you could try one with and one without for a couple of days. 

Are the pick angles different on the DMM ice & mixed picks? I don't think mine are ( I have spares I haven't fitted).

I think there is about 5degrees difference(?)

No difference in mixed and ice picks for those dmm ones, mixed ones are just a bit thicker...

My mistake then. 

I was using my apex tools with the ice picks, still the same problem...

I took the weights off my Switches pretty soon after getting them and have never gone back and don't really miss them.

BTW, compared to loads of others here, I've never found climbing ice with the Switches difficult. I pointed out a few specific issues in my review 8 years ago https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/snow+ice/ice_axes/dmm_switch_ice_axes-6189 and although I haven't had as much chance to use them since moving back to the UK, when I have I am always reminded that they are good tools, either for UK mixed or pure ice. I still tend to favour my Vipers in Scotland because they are fine for the grades I climb - up to V - and have a bit of an edge over the Switch for the mountaineering part of the day. But on a number of days out doing easier to mid grade stuff  I've lent my vipers to a mate and used the Switches myself and it reminds me there aren't many downsides to them, even for pretty modest stuff.

So the answer is (for me on grade V at least) no weights and they were actually pretty good! 

Thanks all.