UKC

Looking to improve my baselayer.

I'm using a synthetic layer which wicks exceptionally well but when I stop (which I often have to for an hour or more after building up a sweat) I feel myself getting damp and cold quite quickly. I'm looking for something that will help with this. I don't expect anything will stay dry when I stop, so think that I just the best option for staying warm when damp? It'll be worn under a micro-fleece or heavier fleece so doesn't need to insulate as such (so not after a thermal layer).

HH Lifa seems to be the best all-round option for hiking, climbing, biking, etc in the widest temperature range. How does it hold up to keeping you warm when it is damp?

Also looking at Merino and Rab's MeCo as options.

I'd just like to be cool and dry when moving, and comfortably warm when stopped for any length of time.

In reply to Martin1978:

If I'm stopped for an extended length of time i'll change into a new, dry base layer. This has always made a massive difference to my comfort levels.

In reply to Martin1978:
Been very impressed with the Rab Meco garments that I bought two years ago, a bit more durable than similar weight icebreaker that I've used in the past.

In reply to Cambridge-Climber:

Do you find they have that "warmer when damp" and "less smelly" feeling than synthetics? I'm considering the 165 zip top or hoody for autumn-winter-spring use. Probably with just micro-fleece over the top when I'm working up a sweat.

In reply to nickcj:

Good idea, and something I can implement when camping out I think. Not so practical for team exercises or casualty care scenarios where I'll be working up a sweat then huddling in a group shelter for an hour or so though.

Cheers, Martin


PS - Also spotted the Helly Merino/Lifa combo which I can get for a good price, but I think they'll be too warm for all but the worst of winter?

In reply to Martin1978:

I have tried everything when it comes to baselayers so here's my 2 pence worth.

Merino is awesome for lower intesnity work, it's very comfy and doesn't really smell and feels warm but if you get a proper sweat on it doesn't dry very quickly.

Synthestic is best for that by far you only have to put one in the washing machine and see how it's almost wearable straight out of the machine to see how little water it retains.

In scotland in winter I walk up in a helly dry revolution get to the base of the climbs then strip and put on a helly warm (the lifa merino mix) this is the best tip i've ever had putting on a very warm dry baselayer is amazing. this top then does me for the rest of the day.

If i'm out cragging in the peaks a light weight merino long sleeve under a wicking t-shirt is my favourite because i never get that sweaty and it's ability when dry to manage your temperature and feel comfy is great.

In conclusion if you are getting damp from sweat i would stay synthetic and if you are doing that I think helly wins hands down, its polypropylene rather than polyester, not sure why that makes it better but it is the main difference to other synthetic base layers. The helly revolution range of baselayers (basically slimmer fitting with no seams) are incredible but even just the normal helly dry are brilliant.

I've not tried meco but it won't dry as quickly as a pure synthetic but might be a halfway house between the two?

In reply to Martin1978:

have a look through andy K's blog. there is an obscure norwegian base layer that is the dogs. I need to get round to ordering one.

i find with merino i just soak it cause i sweat loads so smelly ones for me. quite like the mid weight arcteryx but also a light NF one.

i still wear merino when i want to feel cosy but not expecting a sweatathon eg bouldering, trad in the cold

In reply to alasdair19:

Yes there is. Byrnje and it is indeed top. You have care about style and looks even less than with Lifa, because it is a stinky polypropylene string vest, but it is superb both in the wet and with dry cold. When I'm on the move in winter (hiking, not climbing) I wear a Brynje, a lightweight merino over that and a windshell and am fine in most conditions. Have to throw an insulated jacket on as soon as I stop, obviously.

Agree regarding merino too. Next to the skin it holds far too much moisture in wet conditions. See above though - excellent as a very light second layer over a better wicking synthetic base.

Also to the OP: don't believe *all* the hype about non-scratchy merino if your skin is sensitive to wool. Sure it's better than shetland, but I haven't found a pure merino that I could stand to wear as a base layer for more than a few minutes. I've tried quite a few supposedly good brands on in shops and couldn't wear any of them. The one I have is a merino/polyester mix and is fine. Mine is from Patagonia but I believe Helly and Rab do them too.

In reply to Martin1978:


Still better than most things, but Brynje is even better

In reply to nickcj:


I generally carry a change of shirt for the route if I'm expecting the approach to be sweaty and the weather is ok. Great idea, got it from Will Gadd's blog. Not sure if I would want to strip to the skin and change my shirt for a stop in less than perfect weather though - prefer to throw a belay jacket over the top of everything and be warm enough to dry (a bit) from inside.

In reply to Martin1978:

Agree with all the above but could it be you are wearing too many layers in the first place. Be bold, start cold and let your (synthetic) base layer breathe...

In reply to Martin1978:

Plenty of good advice there, especially regarding synthetics for high intensity activity and merino for lower intensity.

I've used the helly merino base layers quite a lot and I don't think you'd overheat, unless you were wearing too many layers to start with. I've used them walking and running in the autumn and springtime and they've been fine. It's a shame they don't do a short sleeve version in the active fit for summer wear. They're also a lot more durable than other merino base layers as the merino is woven into the lifa. imo it's a good compromise and allows you to wear merino for higher intensity activities.

I'm not a massive fan of the meco, I find them quite thin and fragile, the labels peel off quite quickly, the bobble up and I find them quite cold to wear. Having said that they don't smell and they dry a lot faster than merino, so it's a good option for higher intensity activity.

As everyone else has said, you can't beat poly tops like lifa for wicking and fast drying but they do have that cold feeling in my opinion. Merino tops do soak up and hold moisture however they feel warmer when wet, provided they're not saturated. Apparently due to the hydrophilic core of the fibers holding the moisture while the outer hydrophobic part of the fiber stays dry, which is the bit that touches your skin.

Whatever base layer you wear if it gets damp it will feel cold, synthetics will get less wet but feel colder when damp, merino will feel warmer when damp but will get wetter and hold on to it longer.

My own two penneth worth - I really like the Helly hansen hybrid top, although they've changed it now, some improvements some not. It's basically as it suggests, merino in places and synthetic in places. Very thin synthetic material under the pits and the old one had probably the best designed fabric on the back I've ever used, then merino everywhere else. Extra long in the back and long arms with good cuffs and thump loops, I think the new one has an extra long roll over zip up neck. Eventually the synthetic areas get smelly but the merino still seems to counter this and it'll stay fresh enough for a week away. This is my go to winter garment every time and i'll replace it when it dies, although it's a real shame they changed the fabric on the back.

In reply to Martin1978:

I'm a big fan of the Rab MeCo 120 tops, they seem to be the best compromise between merino (no smell, feels nice against skin) and synthetic (quick drying). Plus they don't give me jogger's nipple (too much info possibly!).

The MeCo boxers, although expensive, are also fab. Especially under my Buffalo salopettes - no sweaty crack!

In reply to Martin1978:

Thanks all, it does sound like the Helly might suit my needs more than Merino. I'll try Merino on today and see if it is itchy, might rule that out anyway.

It's pretty confusing, but I think the above has summarised it all quite nicely.

I do start cold most of the time, opting for a baselayer and microfleece and getting a move on!

Thanks for all of the replies.

In reply to Martin1978:

I only have great things to say about the brynje mesh base layer.
It transfers moisture better than anything ive bought and is mega warm which is crazy considering its basicaly a string vest!! When you think about it and read about it, it does actually make sense! Nothing insulates better than air!

Ive got the short sleeve version with shoulder infills. Im in finland in january and think im going to go for the long sleeve version with infill as I can feel a noticable difference not having the mesh over my arms.

yes it looks like something from a fetish club(apparently!) But who cares, noone is seeing it!!!

I got mine from rhodri over at nordic life. After lots of questions and pondering on it, I went for it and bloody glad I did!! Rhodri is a top guy and is always on hand to help you out where he can. Overall a very good service and recommend both the service and the baselayer and brynje products as a whole having now grown a small collection that are now my go to clothing items!!

In reply to Martin1978: Definitely warmer when wet. I've used them for caving, and also kayak a lot. I do tend to pull on an extra layer when static for any length of time.

For winter climbing, I've worn a 165 under a windshirt on the walk in. Didn't get too sweaty (and I do have a tenedency to perspire).

Also a winner on the wear it for a fortnight without smelling like a tramp front.

In reply to Martin1978:

I've got all of the above. Lifadry, full
merino and rab MeCo 120 and 165.

The rab MeCo 165 zip top is a pretty good compromise. Wicks well enough but warm enough when wet. I find full Merino can smell a bit like wet dog when damp, this doesn't.

In reply to Flat4matt:

Good move. I had the same problem when hiking in the Bavarian Alps in the spring monsoon of 2013: soaked to the skin, warm comfy torso with Brynje teeshirt, cold clammy arms. Went out and bought a long-sleeved Bryjne, problem solved.

One slight concern though: the arms are a bit narrow cut and not very stretchy, would be a problem for somebody with popeye forearms & wrists.

In reply to Martin1978:

I prefer merino for civilised reason but if I'm going to sweat A LOT, tend to wear HH Lifa instead as it does wick and dry faster. Merino also wears out much faster (you can fix it by darning easily though) while I still use a 22 year old smelly helly!

I got some MeCo pieces to review for http://www.redbull.com/en/adventure/stories/1331620073545/gear-to-hit-the-c... I think the hoody is great, but I've only been using them for a couple of month so can't say how well they last. They do dry faster than full merino but don't smell after multiday use. So far really impressed with them.

In reply to AlanLittle:
Yeah, I've just bought a Brynje long sleeved top, and have yet to use it, but agree with you re: the forearms, it's a tight fit on me in my usual size. I hope it doesn't shrink with washing.

In reply to Martin1978:

Thanks all, went for Lifa in the end as it seems to fit the bill for me. Plus I got it half the price of the other options! I will try it tomorrow and see how I get on, but from the comments from folk using it I think it will be just the job.

In reply to Martin1978:

Update: Spot-on! Very pleased. The same conditions (if not a bit colder wind) than the other week, so a good comparison. Rain, wind, and hill fog.

Felt dry all day (despite pushing them with a micro-fleece and old paclite on for half of the day), never overheated, and was very comfortable. When we stopped under the group shelter at lunch and I didn't get chilled like previously. They don't smell, but to be honest I'd let them off if they did! So far so good, and perfect for me I think.

Very pleased with them, so thanks again for taking the time to reply above. Will be getting another set for under my caving suit.

In reply to Martin1978:

If you're caving in wet systems, don't. Get some wool. I've been almost hypothermic standing around at a pitch head in synthetics, always been much warmer in merino.

In reply to Cambridge-Climber:

Thanks, I was thinking for going under my fleece under suit. I do find the Merino a tad itchy unfortunately. Might try the HH Merino/Lifa mix.