In reply to Jamie B.:
> (In reply to fivestar)
>
> As nobody has progressed the discussion of quickdraw dogbones, perhaps we can resume the explosion of the "sport is a useful progression" myth?
>
The 18cm ones for the lot and look for some even longer if you are planing on moving on to trad.
> For what it's woth, I DONT see it as a lesser pursuit. I just feel that for many folk it promotes a more strength and performance dependant impression of climbing and does very little to teach trad skills. Thesed are best learnt through trad climbing, funnily enough.
Quite agree sport tends to foster a feeling that if you are not climbing hard you are not climbing and a feeling that falling is both safe and almost required and a gung ho attitude (all realistic and useful in the context of sport climbing) those attitudes then become dangerous when moved across to trad espetialy combined with the strengh and technique to get them into trouble but without the skills needed to get them out of it.
A much better progression is climbing wall/second - trad lead- bolted sport that way you learn the trad skills in safeish positions while you are still gaining both strength and technique and the problem crossing to sport is to accept that you can be gung ho and don't have to be in control the way you are on a trad climb.