UKC

ON THE CARD BOARD FLYER THAT SAYS ROCK UP ABROAD.

Sorry to shout, but every year we go through this, and every year people chuck the flyer in the bin.

Um...  no, apparently it isn't. 

No flyer here either.

Pretty sure it's only the BMC Club Members cards which go out with the Spring Summit (the only issue we get each year)  Individual Members get theirs in a separate mail out.

Cheers,  Andy 

Dear Godwin

You always shout, don’t be sorry.

Kind regards 

Albert 

Lol. Just trawled through my recucling bin coz guess where the fliers always go?

And no, not there coz im an individual member. April Fool to me!

Maybe the BMC ought to consider putting it somewhere else, then. Especially not on what appears to be an advertising flyer, and unrelated to a membership card. "ROCK UP ABROAD" hardly shouts "HERE'S YOUR MEMBERSHIP CARD".

Mine's been recycled. Why would the BMC make it that silly to find?! It's almost like they don't want members.

The frustrating thing is, this has been happening for several years now.

Looking at the flyer, the emphasis seems more on an opportunity to sell and advertise than to deliver the membership card. 

You’re excused - the only thing shouting here is “BMC shoots itself in foot - again!”

I'm another one who had a quick check of the recycling and found nothing. So if you've done this previous years, maybe remember next year that it's not all BMC members. 🙂

It is mentioned up thread, that this seems to apply to club and not full members, are you a full member?

Yes it was,just fished it out of the bin.😂🤣😃

Mine was clearly visible on opening the envelope with the words ‘New BMC Member mapping benefits for you’. And ‘Your membership card > Tear off and keep safe’. 
 

You are of course correct, but every year, many people do dispose of their membership cards, which  suggests that possibly things could be improved. 

I haven't received a summit magazine in about 3 years despite being a member. Personally I'm not bothered about the magazine as it's just full of adverts and pretty much goes straight in the bin. I didn't even realise club members got a card. 

You can download an image of your membership card from the members area of the BMC website.

I'm a club member. Thanks for the heads up. I've just fished mine out of the bin. I don't mind the BMC saving postage by sending it with Summit, but PLEASE put it somewhere other than on an insert page of adverts!

It would be good if someone from the BMC acknowledges this thread and confirms that this will be done differently next year, as it seems this is not the first year this has happened (and not the first year I've thrown it away by mistake).

Martin

TBH, this is the third year I have posted a thread on this topic, with comments of a similar vein, and IIRC no engagement from the BMC. Not wishing to name names, but there are UKC posters,  who are on the BMC board and the like who post screeds of text on the minutiae of the BMC, but something simple which impacts many members, nothing 🤔 .

Probably because some of those posters have no more knowledge, or access to office staff, in this area than any other members do. I would suggest contacting one of the staff responsible for membership services to point out the issue, all of the office staff I have dealt with over the list couple of years have been quite helpful.

A lot of the people you mention are also individual members, or club upgrade members who will receive the card in a separate envelope so won't pick up on there being an issue.

I agree that enclosing it at the bottom of a sheet of other stuff packed in with Summit is unhelpful. Possibly marking the packaging as having the membership card inside would work?

The membership card is also viewable via MSO:

https://sso.thebmc.co.uk/Account/Login?ReturnUrl=%2Fconnect%2Fauthorize%2Fc...

I don't actually know where my current membership card even is, but that is mostly because the discounts offered are largely beaten by other retailers, or not offered by the shops I tend to visit in person.

I hope that helps.

Have you tried dropping them an email or something?  'Engagement' goes both ways and it hardly seems fair to complain about them not responding positively to complaints shouted into the void in the form of a rant on here.

The void, is this a joke, nearly every climber i know, not all, but close, follows UKC forums. If the BMC are not aware of postings, with  BMC in the subject line, they should pack up and go home. But thats not the case, i know, and you know, this.

And a criticim or feedback is not a rant, it is an opportunity to improve, something any well run organisation should be glad of, its the people who say nothing and just wander off who are the problem.

Ah it’s my fault, sorry.

So possibly there is an issue

I don’t think you really do, and anyway, I have my card. I was just trying to help other people who may have put theirs in the bin, and possibly highlight to the BMC that there maybe an issue.

i hope I helped.

I must be getting yours then. They won't stop!

I was not insinuating that it was your fault in any way, simply pointing out the most effective way of resolving the issue and offering an answer to the question implicitly targeted at people like myself and Offwidth. I know at least one BMC staff member who actively recommends not using the UKC forums at all due to the tone of discussion about the BMC so I wouldn't be surprised if the people who can actually resolve the issue won't read it unless directly linked to the thread. I can contact the relevant person tomorrow, I have had a horrendous drive home from Riasg today in abysmal traffic and weather.

I didn't deny that there is an issue, I acknowledged it and offered a possible solution.

Generally I would recommend viewing my posts as attempting to be polite/ helpful (unless I am quite clearly offering a heavy criticism of something). I am autistic and sometimes tone doesn't come across as I intend despite best efforts. I wouldn't append  "I hope that helps" to a post with a negative intent.

Well that's pretty sad.

Maybe someone could read 'The Cluetrain Manifesto', and how to turn around a negative corporate image; the American Airlines (IIRC) example is illuminating and very relevant here.

And yet you have managed to write long posts. Would it not have been less effort to merely drop a quick email to this relevant person (you seem to know who they are; we don't), with a quick note here to say you have done so?

That's the sort of positive action, rather than defensive excusing, that the Cluetrain Manifesto encourages corporations to adopt

The Cluetrain example:

An airline had lots of customers who were unhappy with customer service; operational issues they couldn't seem to get resolved; no-one in the corporation seemed to want to deal with them, and the respinse was always to deflect and excuse; a 'computer says no' approach.

These unhappy customers posted their grievances on a travellers' forum. An airline employee, off their own bat, started to help these customers with their issues, and soon earned a reputation and kudos as a helpful face of the airline.

Then airline corporate found out what this individual was doing, and, because it wasn't 'their job' or via an 'official corporate customer relations' interface (aka Mordac the Preventer), they banned this employee from engaging with customers in this way.

So the employee had to post on the forum to explain why they could no longer help, providing the the official customer relation contact details.

Cue an absolute shitstorm of complaint directed to the official customer relations, pointing out that this one individual had practically turned around the airline's reputation with forum members (customers) with their helpful approach.

Fortunately, the airline realised the error of its ways, and set up a department to deal effectively wirh customer issues.

ps. I'm not expecting you to start dealing with all the complaints about the BMC; I know you're not an officer, and it's not your job, but it just struck me as an example of a deflecting response that seems to pervade the entire BMC. That and the bit about not reading UKC because we only ever complain...

Pps. I've just emailed 'the office' to highlight this problem. You know; positive action and wotnot...

Thanks for the heads up. Fished mine out of the bin.....

I wouldn't have known mine was there as the Summit was addressed to my partner only, who kindly handed me my membership card.  

Clearly I'm deemed too dizzy to have one of my own to open.  Despite having different surnames it obviously was just sent to the Mr. 

The two posts I made were either before the drive home, or while waiting for my girlfriend to repack her bags before the last bit of the journey and I had intended to find the email address for one of the Membership services staff and raise the issue today, however you have kindly done so.

I'll have a look at the Cluetrain Manifesto as corporate culture is an area of interest (having worked for places with dire corporate culture, and places with good corporate culture).

It may be useful if you email, too, assuming you know this person; people tend to take more notice of people they know, rather than random punters emailing.

I'm sorry you got it in the neck from me earlier; you and Offwidth are a couple of regular 'BMC activists' who post here, so tend to (unfairly) cop the blame for BMC failings. It's a shame that there is the reluctance you identified earlier for BMC staff posting here; I don't think that disengagement, or that whole approach of avoiding critical voices, is healthy. I'm not always critical; I have been critical during the Individual Members stuff way back in 2004/5 or whenever, and the ClimbUK fiasco, but I was supportive during the MoNC nonsense. I like to think my criticism is fair...

I've just flagged this up to the new CEO for consideration. Only just seen it as I've been living the high life in a Members' Council meeting all day today.

Your wish is my... .

Hope you're keeping well, Martin?

Andy

See my response to Martin H.

It's more a case of knowing that the BMC has staff who are dedicated to membership stuff. I have just had a call from Andy Say telling me that he's forwarded it onto Paul Ratcliffe who seems to be very on it with getting stuff done.

RE: Staff posting on here, I know of at least one who does post on here, and one who doesn't interact with the forum. If there's a feeling that you are potentially going to get it in the neck for stuff that you have no responsibility for it's a pretty big disincentive. I rarely engage with stuff relating to my employer online despite being exceptionally proud of working on the SMR project.

I think people here are pretty reasonable (barring a few of the MoNC types who still lurk here), and would understand that limited responsibility. It's the passing issues onto the most appropriate person/department that is the useful interaction. That was the essence of the airline story; people appreciate someone trying their best to help. 

One has to be able to separate the dissatisfaction with corporate behaviour from the personal. And that works both ways. For instance, today I asked an employee in WHS why some products had no prices on, pointing out that people browsing  aren't likely to buy something if they can't find a price on the item. She apologised, and said the items came into store like that. We had a little discussion about the sanity of that policy, but I was at pains to reassure her that I wasn't blaming her for corporate policy; all very amicable, if ultimately unsatisfactory.

Thanks Andy. I was thinking I should perhaps contact the BMC direct, as per the suggestion in a post above, but it will be more effective coming from you.

I'm doing pretty well considering. Thanks for asking. Certainly hoping to get some good climbing in this year. Hope you're keeping well too.

Martin

Says the guy who gave the technical committee volunteer crap for offering to help but not doing it quick enough, on this very thread. And to be clear, I think you do actually tend to be one of the reasonable people. So combine together: 

• A thread that's on a pretty low stakes topic compared to a lot of BMC debates
• The person sticking their head above the parapet isn't even employed by the BMC, or involved in a relevant department 
• They literally just said they were going to help by sending a useful email
• They still got stick, and from a relatively moderate person at that, for not helping quick enough
• (When the issue doesn't even become relevant again for a full year, so it's hardly urgent!)

Is it any wonder that people steer clear?

I know you've already apologised to him for it. I just think it's ironic to be bemoaning the lack of engagement here after demonstrating really clearly one of the reasons why it's lacking.

Point taken. I shall endeavour to be more tactful in future.

I really wasn't trying to say spenser wasn't acting quickly enough, but contrasting the long, somewhat defensive, replies against apparent shortness of time; all that was required was a comment along the lines of "Good idea: I think I know most appropriate person; I'll pass the suggestion on". Short, to the point, positive, purposeful. But I expressed that point clumsily, and too personally, which is why I apologised.

Everyone (spenser included) was recommending someone else contact the BMC. That's why I thought I ought to do something positive, and email them myself, even though I'm an IM, and this isn't a problem I have...

FYI you can download a PDF of your card from the BMC website (click on your name in the top right once you're logged in) I needed something from a Cotswold or somewhere a while back and didn't have the card on me but they were happy producing that on my phone...although I'm pretty sure I've not needed to show a card before to get the discount. 

"I've just flagged this up to the new CEO for consideration. Only just seen it as I've been living the high life in a Members' Council meeting all day today".

Does that suit?

Okay, if you genuinely want constructive criticism, here goes:

Would have been shorter and more positive without the snarky excuse at the end. And could have been more positive rather than the neutral 'flagged for consideration'.

I'm sure I'll get downvoted for this comment, but I am trying to point out and help correct the defensive/negative attitude. The excuse was unnecessary, as no-one reasonable expects you to sit reading UKC 24/7, waiting for things to respond to. The snarkiness undid the positive response, making you sound grudging.

I'll send you the bill for this PR consultation...

ps. I gave the original post a thumbs up; thanks for flagging it to the CEO.

My accountants tell me I can reject your bill on the basis that your consultation was never requested 😉

PLEASE recognise that is meant humourously, as I'm sure your post was as well. My second sentence wasn't meant to be 'snarky'; more a plea for empathy. I, and other volunteers, are happy to deal with issues like this as far as we can but, as you have acknowledged, there are constraints on what we can do.

'Flagged for consideration' is, I'm afraid, about the best I can do as a humble volunteer. I can't promise an outcome. The new CEO has already thanked me for the information but probably deserves a weekend off (he was in the same meeting, and I'm knackered....)

Always open to constructive criticism 👍

Too late to save mine, but as advised on this thread I've downloaded it from the BMC website and printed it out at 30% of the size of the pdf and now have a near perfect replacement, albeit on paper rather than flimsy card. Also uploaded the image to my phone. Panic over.

Really? Most I know avoid UKC forums (like I should), and this thread is a good example of why. You tried to post something helpful and got shot down

Thank you for this thread. After reading it I checked and found the sheet with the membership card in the bottom of the discarded envelope, having only read the pretty disappointing magazine.

Twenty likes and no dislikes is getting 'shot down'...?

Don't be too sure 😂.

Members rool, OK

Not many of the BMC staff are climbers, so unfortunately they won't be seeing this thread!

As paid staff, maybe they could start? 

From what I can tell, the only people that don't look at the UKC threads whilst at work are the people that work for UKC and BMC staff who perhaps should... 😏

BTW, all with the current Summit, I used the link in the magazine to Hotel Planner (I think it's called) which the BMC has partnered with. You can use the QR code in Summit and you go to their site with BMC at the start of the web address, so BMC gets a little bit of the booking fee.

I don't know if there is some amazing discounts or anything but I ended up booking via the site as I found a room in a hotel in the area I wanted for a tenner cheaper than the cheapest premier inn or anything on booking.com and my room came with breakfast and free parking which the premier inns didn't. So maybe there is some real discount in there, or maybe the hotel will turn out to be horrible - I'll report back! 😀

Thanks for the feedback; good to know!

Hope you sleep well and enjoy the breakfast.