UKC

Hi all, 

I’ve just purchased a pair of La Sportiva Mistrals, size 7.5, I am a street size 9 (these were advised & fitted by salesman in my gym) but I am experiencing large discomfort.

I have to remove the shoes probably after every 2 climbs

There’s minor pain / discomfort walking between boulders (indoor gym)

There’s also some pain when putting pressure down on my toes 

I have only climbed in them for 1 session 

I understand breaking in, & the shoe may stretch, I just wondered if it’s this common to have these pains, and it’s something I will either adapt to / resolve once the shoes are broken in.

Thank you very much.

(Trainer in photo is 10, my foot is 9)

I've got the same size foot, and would have given the sales person a very quizzical one-eyebrow-raised look had they recommend me a 7.5 climbing shoe.

In Sportivas I generally wear 43s or 43.5s depending on the shoe and use.  My Scarpas are 44s.  While there is still a breaking-in period, after that I don't experience foot pain or any performance limitations due to not having my feet bound.  I'd even argue that you climb better and have more enjoyment when your feet don't feel like an open wound.  

You can also do longterm damage to your feet by using too small shoes.  Sell 'em and buy some that fit.

Nice trainers btw

This happens way too often, Almost everyone I know has been there. New climbers get advised to downsize radically for performance.  Yes shoes do break in and your feet get used to it, if you can stick with them they could well turn into amazing shoes.

If you are pulling them on and cannot bear them after only a couple of min then yeah I'd say they are too tight.

That said climbing shoe sizes are only a very rough guide. When buying new shoes my yardstick for size is: Do I think I can wear this shoe for about 20/30 min until discomfort kicks in. If so then after a few wears they will give a little and they'll be good for an hour or more of wear. For 95% of my climbing that is the perfect shoe. The other 5% of the time any disadvantage is marginal and frankly makes for a good excuse.  

To accelerate the wearing in process of breaking in new shoes I warm them up with body heat before putting them on (stuff them down my jacket on the walk to the wall etc) 

I really appreciate the response, I was a bit perplexed, although I think because I had managed to get them on I hadn’t questioned it.. 

Thats understandable & thank you for explaining. I’d have to agree that because of discomfort the session was nowhere near as enjoyable or beneficial, I think I was being optimistic that they’d severely break in.

I’ll get rid & go for a better fitting pair

Thanks again 

Thanks Paul, it’s tough as id say I can wear them for 20-30 minutes, although it’s discomfort the entire time.

I feel as though potentially even a 1/2 size up could do the trick here?

I really appreciate the response & knowledge, thank you.

If you're after comfort you might be better in a stiffer pair of shoes closer to your shoe size. Rock boots are designed to be tight and only you can decide what you can manage painwise.

Just for comparison my la spotiva muiras are 4 European sizes smaller than my street shoe size.  I'm not saying this is right for you, you just have to consider the trade off in persomance for comfort.

Equally if you only really climb inside you definitely do not need your boots overly tight as the footholds are generally much larger.

Not sure on those shoes specifically, but I find La Sportiva sizing a bit odd. I’m normally about a 44 (10) in street shoes. But I used to wear Miura’s in a 41, and their approach shoes in a 46.

The Miura were my only shoe and it did take quite a few sessions of use for them to feel comfortable, but then they would be great (i would need to take them off after a bit at the wall, but they weren’t too uncomfortable for long periods of use).

I used to wear them around the house a bit at the beginning as well to quicken the breaking in process.

I wouldn’t wear anything that tight now as I haven’t found sizing up has made a difference, other than out of the box comfort which is way better.

You are far too nice a person.

Take the shoes back to the gym/shop and ask to speak to the manager. Explain your situation and ask him how he/she is going to resolve the problem created by his/her salesperson selling you a shoe which is completely the wrong size.

Listen carefully and attentively to their answer before deciding on your next course of action which could range from gladly accepting a full refund to shouting and screaming abuse or naming and shaming them on social media depending on their solution.

As a previous poster said, this mis-selling of climbing shoes happens all too often. You may be doing others a favour by stopping this ‘salesperson’ mis-selling shoes to all his/her customers.

Good luck in whatever action you take.

You could take them off between routes?

I size 1.5 sizes down in La Sportiva rockshoes but this is for climbing. Not walking or standing/belaying.

If i remember ill bring crocs or sinilar to the wall to wear. If i forget, ill walk around in my socks

It depends on the shoe, with ones based on a slip last (e.g. La Sportiva, Mythos) you have a soft leather slipper like a sock and could exist on it's own, and a rubber sole is bonded underneath. These will stretch a lot and radical downsize is sensible.

Many climbing shoes are based on a board last, there is a rubber sole and the upper, which is just an upper bit,   is attached round the edges of the sole (like where the welt of traditional shoe/boot would be). These don't stretch anywhere near as much and generally shouldn't be radically downsized

The answer is "it depends" and this is where decent advice in the shop would've been helpful. Unfortunately  you might need to sell your shoes as nearly new and but ones that are going to fit. Sorry 

https://blog.weighmyrack.com/climbing-shoe-construction-how-climbing-shoes-...

I know you can get *excellent* advice at "Rock On" shop at Mile End climbing wall (London), but you may need to find out where is good wherever you are. You need somewhere that carries a wide range of shoes to try and staff with a depth of experience. Good luck

On the one hand you could call this mis-selling as the salesperson encouraged the OP to buy a pair of shoes that turned out to be too tight. 

But the OP also (I'm assuming) tried them on in the shop, probably a few different sizes, and the salesperson would have asked questions like "how does that feel" etc.  The final decision rests with the customer, who, contrary to the phrase, isn't always right.

The salesperson can only base their advice on the information that they're receiving from the customer, so if the customer is giving them information that isn't quite right "Yeah they're tight but not too tight" etc

The final decision rests with the customer, and their judgement on how they feel.  In this case the OP sounds like they're relatively inexperienced in buying climbing shoes, and aren't able to tell the difference between too tight, and "tight but bearable and they'll be better after a bit of stretch" (it's a fine margin even for experienced climbers).  

Expecting the salesperson to be able to get this right 100% of the time is unrealistic, after all we  customers get it wrong sometimes, and we're the one with the shoes on out feet!

I wouldn't ever encourage anyone to try to extract a full refund for shoes that have been used at the wall.  They're unsellable now, and you're basically asking the shop to give away a pair of  shoes for nothing.  Climbing shops don't make a massive amount of profit, and we ought to support them, not target them.

Shouting abuse at the salesperson is never, ever the answer.

FWIW, if the OP can wear them for 20-30 minutes, and is walking between boulder problems with them on (albeit not with much comfort) they sound like they're sized spot on to me.   These are a mid-range bouldering shoe, not an all day mult-pitch shoe. you're meant to take them off when you're not actively climbing, that's why they're Velcro.  Probably just need another couple of sessions in them and they'll feel just perfect.

20-30 minutes including walking around is far more than I can do in my shoes when I first buy them.  10 minutes tops.  

No problem.  Climbing shoes are a bit of a minefield to begin with, so I'm happy to add my 2p for what it's worth.  It may take some trial and error to find ones that suit your feet and the type of climbing you want to do.  Good to bear in mind that all shoes stretch, but some more than others.  Synthetic, lined shoes with lots of toe rubber will stretch very little compared to leather, unlined shoes.  For the former, you'd want to downsize initially knowing they'll bag out over time.  And then, different brands have their own sizing quirks, even between different models.  You'll find endless reddit posts agonizing over what size in what model, etc. 

Like a previous poster said, it is worth stating your case to the manager where you bought the shoes, as it appears you were poorly advised.  If they don't want to help, simply take your business elsewhere in the future.

To be fair Sportivas are generally quite large for the size (I'm 42/42.5 and would use a 39.5), especially this model which is prone to stretch.  However I am far from a first time climber and size my shoes tight! 

Above said, these clearly do not fit - this seems like the correct assessment to me too. 

I don't know the specifics of that particular model but in general La Sportiva climbing shoes come out large for their size, most people downsize between 1 & 2 UK sizes from their trainer size (if they even know this accurately many people don't!).

How much will vary depending on the individuals climbing shoe requirement often trying to balance comfort & performance and trying to guess the amount of stretch in any particular climbing shoe model and its intended purpose. For example a bouldering shoe worn for short amounts of time where users often want ultimate performance on hard problems a tight fit is usually paramount, however starting out this is not necessary on easier problems where bigger gains through technique and strength are going to outweigh having a tight fit and being put off bouldering. Or trying to wear a performance shoe for long periods of time on an all day trad route.

For a model such as the one you bought designed to give performance but without compromising on comfort for the developing climber I wouldn't fit it exceptionally tight as you will not need that sort of tight fit to climb intermediate grades. In a shop there is a tendency to go tighter than you think. next time try sitting with and walking round in the shoes for a bit of time is a useful but often hotspots and pains are only apparent if you weight the shoes on holds particularly over a whole session. Some shoe can cause long term pain and damage that isn't apparent at the point of purchase, other shoes bed in from being painful to loose and unsupportive. Choosing shoes unfortunately can be a bit of a lottery with all these unknowns.

A quote from the La Sportiva website - 

‘Versatility, performance, and comfort define the Mistral’.

Unless you take advice from an expert - in this case a salesman - who thinks that only two of the quoted characteristics are important.

You’re asking the customer to absorb a major financial loss because he was given poor advice and are letting the shop off Scott free because ‘nobody gets it right 100% of the time’.

Did you see the photo that the OP posted?

How hard do you need to be climbing for it to be necessary or desirable to cram your feet into climbing shoes so much smaller than the street shoes?

You might be happy hobbling around in ill fitting shoes but the OP isn’t and I’m suggesting that any salesman who tells a customer that it’s necessary to do so is plain wrong.

Having seriously hurt my feet by ignoring pain in the past, I would say they should feel comfortable enough to climb in quite quickly. The pairs I had that were painful didn’t get less so. You can definitely get a high performing shoe that doesn’t cripple your feet - it’s probably possible to get snug but not painful shoes. It took me a few different shoes to land upon the right one for me. Even then I have ended up going up a couple of sizes when I bought new pairs.  Don’t ignore foot pain. If you feel like they are fine for 10 mins then become uncomfortable, you could try taking them off regularly - eg don’t belay or walk around in them. Maybe mix it up with a more comfortable pair to give your feet a break. If that doesn’t help and they don’t improve within a couple of sessions, I would try on a few different models and sizes. 

You try the shoes on.  You know how they feel.  You buy them.  You made the decision.  Your responsibility.  Your mistake.

And these things do happen.  Lots of climbing shops will take the shoes back as long as you've not climbed in them - I've heard people at the Castle shop encouraging people to take a pair home and wear them a bit longer inside the house and by all means bring them back if you decide they're not right. 

You know why?  Because getting the sizing tight is hard.  Even for "experts".

The salesperson I'm sure was trying to give the best advice they can based on the OPs responses.  Absolutely no need start suggesting he goes and screams at them.  That's totally out of order.

The picture that the OP posted is irrelevant.  A pair of Air Jordans that are a full size too big (he's a 9, they're a 10) give us absolutely no indication of the size of his feet or the appropriateness of the fit.

Personally I wear super comfortable shoes.  I'm a 9.5 street, wear a 8.5 La Sportiva.  Feels tight for the first few sessions, but are as comfortable as slippers by the time the soles go, hence why I suggested the OP might be ok in them after a few more sessions.

Also is "major financial loss" not catastrophising a bit?  I mean I know climbing shoes aren't cheap, but it's a pair of shoes, not a house fire!

*right not tight

Apologies if this has been said already (I’ve only read about half the thread), but my recommendation would be to buy a new pair of shoes that are totally comfortable. A pair that cause absolutely no discomfort.

You will probably want to upgrade quite quickly as you improve, so you will have a better idea what to go for when that time comes, but having a pair of shoes that cause zero discomfort will always be a good back up pair for:

1. when your feet have had enough - perhaps at the end of a long session.

2. if you have any minor injuries on your feet.

3. if you take up multi-pitch trad climbing outdoors (such as mountain rock routes) and want a pair you can keep on all day.

For me, the last of those (no, 3) would be the most important.

Thanks everyone, I appreciate all the responses, it had given me a lot to think about regarding the shoes. I know ultimately it was down to me to end up walking away with them, & not the salesman, I should’ve tried them more & made sure they were right for me.

That being said, at this point I definitely value comfort more than performance, & the Minstrals were just providing me neither, just not the shoe for me.

I did manage to exchange them at the gym for a pair of La Sportiva Boulders, in the same size (7.5) and they are a much better fit too my foot, there’s no pain, although tightness & discomfort once I had them on for a long period of time. 

 Thanks again for all your thoughts & comments, couldnt of been more helpful. 

Ironically this is the perfect maxim when buying climbing shoes

How to spot a boulderer in a shoe shop:

"What size are your feet, Sir?"

"9 1/2, but I can wear a 7 for two minutes"