UKC

I was at my local wall last night and had a discussion with a friend about Ape index's
Height measurement vs reach (measure height, then place one hand on floor and see if you can reach past height mark with other hand)

Mines about 1.5 inches(no wonder Im such a crap climber)
My climbing partners is 5 inches or so (and he's 6'4) (skumbag)

aparently mr Dawes has a hugely positive ape index too

So whats your ape index!!

Uriel

In reply to uriel:

Was getting fitted for a shirt the other day and the guy measuring me said "Oh, you've got very short arms for your height"

My height and arm span are pretty much distance. I'd love to have a 1.5 inch ape index!

In reply to MeMeMe: Please can we have a translation into English

In reply to uriel: +1.5, you lucky, lucky b*stard, I dream of a positive ape index, languishing on -2". Biut I can climb harder than a couple of friends with arms down to their knees (or near as...)

In reply to uriel:

my height and span are equal.

So, I suppose that makes my index - 0

In reply to uriel:

its total arm span and distance from tiptoe to maximum vertcal stretch that matters. Basically a really long head is a disadvantage
Pete

In reply to uriel: about the same as yours iirc although i measured it with horizontal arms apart span rather than one hand on the floor and reacing up - that sounds like it would be stricter

In reply to sloper:

It seemed okay to me!

Although reading it back there do seem to be some bits missing , but I'm sure anyone of any intelligence can fill in the gaps for themselves.

In reply to MeMeMe:

I mkae up for only having a 6ft total arm span by being stronger than other people anyways. If you can't do a crucifix with your arms out and feet off then ape index starts to be a bit of a fuzzy idea.
Pete

In reply to rich:

<returns from measuring> apparently not and that looks more like +3" - i must just be shit at climbing then

In reply to uriel:

+4 ish for me.

In reply to uriel: ‘Just for the record’ (not saying anybody doesn’t know this already)
Span is measured from middle finger tip to middle finger tip with arms held out at right angles to the body. Subtract your height from this and the resulting number in inches is your ape index. To be absolutely fair to people of all heights it would be better expressed as a percentage or fraction decimal or otherwise. This is because a person who is 5'tall with +2 AI is significantly more unusual than a person who is say 6'5" with +2 AI.
I agree with 'Hotbad' that absolute vertical limit of reach can be more significant. But Ape Index is useful comparative measure.
My AI is +6, but Ian Hill's is +8

In reply to uriel:

about +4 for me too

In reply to bunny head:

didn't realise you had an armspan mr/mrs/miss head
Pete

In reply to uriel: Think I'm neutral or perhaps very slightly positive if i stretch My excuse for poor climbing ability anyway!

In reply to uriel:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
Mine (Ape Index) is 5.5 inches.
This usually ends the thread.

And it doesn't make me a good climber either.

In reply to uriel: Probably got Marfans syndrome then!
A good indication of proximity to Neanderthal is the prominence of the eyebrow ridge and the recession of the forehead (indicating small cranial cavity); another good indicator is how far the ridge below the nose protrudes beyond that at the bridge of the nose. Ears may be lower than usual as well.

In reply to Steven Martin:

but you were good in airplane
Pete

In reply to uriel:
Do you put your hand flat on the floor or tips of fingers?
If tips mine is +1 otherwise about -5 !

In reply to Hotbad Peteel:

I am Steven Martin, not Steve Martin, and neither of us were in Airplane.

In reply to uriel:

Anyone got a good way of improving your ape index then?

I've been eating loads of bananas but no change yet.

In reply to uriel:

think i'm about +5

would like to point out that while long arms are good for reaching wide they aren't any use for reaching high (because in effect having relatively long arms is just another way of saying that you've got short legs or, more usually, a short body.

in addition, having long limbs is likely to mean that you have relatively long outforce levers in relation to inforce levers, meaning that you are able to deliver less power at the finger tips for a given amount of muscle.

taking all this into consideration, it is far from obvious that a highly positive ape index has any bearing on climbing ability.

J.

In reply to MeMeMe:

ask the spanish. Try insulting their religion first
Pete

In reply to JJJJ: would like to point out that while long arms are good for reaching wide they aren't any use for reaching high (because in effect having relatively long arms is just another way of saying that you've got short legs or, more usually, a short body.

I shall have to challenge this statement. It may be accurate in some cases, but not all.
It is quite possible to have long arms and a more normally proportioned body and legs.

In reply to uriel:

My ape index is +9, but I am a shortarse and have two bellies, so don't climb particularly hard.

In reply to karl walton:

everybody knows you're only 4'3", Walton

In reply to CJD:

If only I were that tall.

In reply to SidH:
Finger tip's on floor mate!

I forgot to mention Im 5'4 in shoes so I guess my positive ape index is cancelled out by my severe lack of height.
I have to bloody dyno for everything!

Uri

In reply to karl walton:



but my point is that when you have a positive ape index, do you have normal body and legs and long arms, or do you have short body and legs and normal arms? put another way, is your ape-index positive because your arms are long or the rest of you is short?

it's just a choice of language: the facts, and the reach upwards (though not sideways) remain the same. for upward reach ape-index is irrelevant, or rather, it is only weakly correlated with the true measure of interest, namely shoulder height plus arm length.

anyway, the inforce-outforce lever question is probably more pertinent. i'd like to see a random sample of climbers with their ape-indices and their best top-rope grade (and best trad grade) to see if there is any relationship between ape-index and climbing ability and, if so, in which direction it lies: could be either way.

i think both top-rope and leading grades should be checked, because i suspect ape-index may be positively correlated with in-untero testosterone levels, which might effect boldness as well as physical climbing ability. (NB, girls can have high in-utero testosterone levels without being mannish)

i've just realised that there is actually no particular reason to suppose that long limbs equals long outforce levers within a species, although it is the case between species. but let's not go into that.

in addition to all that i've also just realised that i couldn't give a toss.

In reply to uriel:

my ape index is 0. Rather than using this as an excuse for ineptitude while climbing, I prefer to just think of it as being 'normal'

In reply to CJD:

ah well, is it 'normal' though? what is the average ape index? there's no reason to suppose that it is zero.

In reply to JJJJ:
My head hurts; I think I'll have a nap now.

In reply to CJD: Funny that, I don't think of you as either inept or normal

In reply to karl walton:

compliment? insult? who can say...

In reply to JJJJ:

look, just humour me, okay?

In reply to CJD:

but i am doing: you know very well that you despise normality in yourself.

In reply to JJJJ:

Do I?

:-S

In reply to uriel:

"only" +1.5 indeed!

mine is about -1.5

shows that, actually, my lead grade should be radically adjusted upwards

In reply to CJD:

don't you?

In reply to JJJJ:

Da Vinci thought it was zero.

http://www.artofeurope.com/leonardo/leo10.htm

Not sure what he did on grit though.

In reply to JonC:

where's the evidence?

In reply to JJJJ:

aaaarrrgh <runs off screaming>

I'm dealing with carpet merchants today. It's sapping my energy.

In reply to uriel:

ZERO

In reply to uriel:

I have a couple in my time that I have rated about 1.5 out of ten.

Fex.

In reply to Steven Martin:


and I usually reply to you that mine is +8 ...

In reply to Ian Hill:

do your knuckles actually drag on the ground?

In reply to CJD: not since I got the special gloves and shoulder brace

In reply to Ian Hill:

oi you, stop bragging about your simian arms on every ape index thread that gets posted!

In reply to uriel: Mine is +6

In reply to uriel:

My Effort: +4"

In reply to uriel:
I come in at a grand +7.

In reply to uriel: Dont forget that the simple reason to long arms is a low level of testosteron in young years. Where did all the girls go?
+14..........cm

In reply to uriel:

+ 2 i think

Phil

In reply to uriel:

-1 cm or something

In reply to uriel:

I have a simply spiffing ape index.




But I lost both my my legs in a tragic car accident when I was 12.

In reply to colski: improves your power to weight ratio too!!

In reply to Sarah_Clough & bunny head:

Interesting, you must be very gifted. Most women are ape index negative as a general rule of thumb.

J