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Do you exaggerate the climbing grade on your profile?
I have read a profile recently and know that the grade is above that of the actual ability of that person...
If a potential partner saw this, I reckon a serious situation could arise should they base their decision to climb with this person on the grade that they claim to climb...
How else do you determine climbing with a stranger? do you just go with gut instinct?
I have read a profile recently and know that the grade is above that of the actual ability of that person...
If a potential partner saw this, I reckon a serious situation could arise should they base their decision to climb with this person on the grade that they claim to climb...
How else do you determine climbing with a stranger? do you just go with gut instinct?
In reply to Bingly Bong:
ooo, I brought this up a while ago and opened up a right can of worms!
those grades are supposed to be 'best' grades, but it might be nice if there were 'day-to-day' grades too.
ooo, I brought this up a while ago and opened up a right can of worms!
those grades are supposed to be 'best' grades, but it might be nice if there were 'day-to-day' grades too.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Without wishing to sound like a "Charlie says.." public information broadcast, I don't climb with strangers. I'm happy to belay anyone if they want me to, but I'm not comfortable climbing with people I don't know.
Just a personal preference.
Without wishing to sound like a "Charlie says.." public information broadcast, I don't climb with strangers. I'm happy to belay anyone if they want me to, but I'm not comfortable climbing with people I don't know.
Just a personal preference.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Profile states Best Onsight and Best Worked, not most common or usual. Hence Ive stated my BEST not what I would usually get myself climbing on an average weekend.
Maybe we need a comfortable grade? typical grade?
See your point about potential misleading info, but Id generall chat to new partner first and make sure were both thinking of same grades and also style of climbing.
Profile states Best Onsight and Best Worked, not most common or usual. Hence Ive stated my BEST not what I would usually get myself climbing on an average weekend.
Maybe we need a comfortable grade? typical grade?
See your point about potential misleading info, but Id generall chat to new partner first and make sure were both thinking of same grades and also style of climbing.
In reply to Ridge:
one thing that lots of people seem to say (like, for instance, on the 'who do you trust to hold your ropes' thread) is that they drop their grade by a couple of notches while climbing with new partners, so the likelihood of falling off is reduced a bit. However, for me that would involve going into negative grades... :-S
one thing that lots of people seem to say (like, for instance, on the 'who do you trust to hold your ropes' thread) is that they drop their grade by a couple of notches while climbing with new partners, so the likelihood of falling off is reduced a bit. However, for me that would involve going into negative grades... :-S
In reply to Bingly Bong:
It is funny - though not unexpected - that quite a few people feel the need to exaggerate how hard they climb. I think there is a fair bit of peer pressure however so it's to be expected really.
It could well be dangerous but I suppose, with any new climbing partner, you face the risk that they've been telling you porkies. So I'd never totally trust what I had been told.
I mean, I saw/heard this chap at the wall some while back telling everyone who could listen that he lef HVS. Just to look at him climbing you knew this to be untrue. But I suppose that's just a bit sad really.
And, no, I don't exaggerate my climbing grade on my profile.
A bigger question is what do you say when someone asks you how hard you climb? Apart from that being considered a bit of an untactful question in some circles, it's sometimes hard to know what to say.
It is funny - though not unexpected - that quite a few people feel the need to exaggerate how hard they climb. I think there is a fair bit of peer pressure however so it's to be expected really.
It could well be dangerous but I suppose, with any new climbing partner, you face the risk that they've been telling you porkies. So I'd never totally trust what I had been told.
I mean, I saw/heard this chap at the wall some while back telling everyone who could listen that he lef HVS. Just to look at him climbing you knew this to be untrue. But I suppose that's just a bit sad really.
And, no, I don't exaggerate my climbing grade on my profile.
A bigger question is what do you say when someone asks you how hard you climb? Apart from that being considered a bit of an untactful question in some circles, it's sometimes hard to know what to say.
In reply to CJD: Ah, climbing in black holes.
In reply to Nic's Bloke: True.
I also think that to be able to claim a grade it should be witnessed, particularly grades that are logged significantly higher than the trend of their normal climbing ability.
I also think that to be able to claim a grade it should be witnessed, particularly grades that are logged significantly higher than the trend of their normal climbing ability.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Having just done my first HS lead (up from VDiff), and having only seconded up to VS, it would be better if the options allowed you to express this sad state of affairs. For example, I still haven't led a Severe yet, although I've seconded a few...
And only have about 23 or so outdoor leads under my belt...
Having just done my first HS lead (up from VDiff), and having only seconded up to VS, it would be better if the options allowed you to express this sad state of affairs. For example, I still haven't led a Severe yet, although I've seconded a few...
And only have about 23 or so outdoor leads under my belt...
In reply to JonC: If anything, I tend to dampen down the grade I can climb for fear of getting in a mess and creating an epic!
I would not climb harder than VS unless someone who knew me and had seen me climbing/climbed with me convinced me that I could do it.
I would not climb harder than VS unless someone who knew me and had seen me climbing/climbed with me convinced me that I could do it.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
I think 'best on sight' is a bit misleading and a world different to 'steady at that grade, on all rock types'.
I think 'best on sight' is a bit misleading and a world different to 'steady at that grade, on all rock types'.
In reply to JonC's deleted post: No, but if someone said they had on-sighted say E1, when they had only managed VS and said they were perfectly happy to partner me and lead say HVS and then got in a muddle - me climbing tops VS could cause all sorts of problems...
In reply to Dominion: I have been told that I did lead a S, but Im not convinced it was actually graded correctly as I found it relatively easy. I have not, therefore, logged it on my profile.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
wtf?!
It's not like anyone here is claiming to lead E10 is it? These are rather unimportant profiles and to be taken with a pinch of salt.
Most people have pulled off an on-sight which is at the top of a pyramid of leads at different grades. It may not be a fluke but one exceptional effort based on a solid foundation. At least, that's what I like to think And I'm damned if I am going to justify it on my profile!
A bigger question maybe is what you say when someone asks you face to face how hard you lead. Possibly a bit of a no-no in some circles but you do get asked occasionally. On being asked recently I automatically knocked off a couple of grades from my hardest on-sight so as to give a better representation of what I do each weekend. I think most of the people I climb with would either (politely) refuse to answer or do the same.
> I also think that to be able to claim a grade it should be witnessed, particularly grades that are logged significantly higher than the trend of their normal climbing ability.
wtf?!
It's not like anyone here is claiming to lead E10 is it? These are rather unimportant profiles and to be taken with a pinch of salt.
Most people have pulled off an on-sight which is at the top of a pyramid of leads at different grades. It may not be a fluke but one exceptional effort based on a solid foundation. At least, that's what I like to think And I'm damned if I am going to justify it on my profile!
A bigger question maybe is what you say when someone asks you face to face how hard you lead. Possibly a bit of a no-no in some circles but you do get asked occasionally. On being asked recently I automatically knocked off a couple of grades from my hardest on-sight so as to give a better representation of what I do each weekend. I think most of the people I climb with would either (politely) refuse to answer or do the same.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Not that likely that people would climb harder alone than with a partner tho is it?
But it asks for best ever grade, not best thos season, best in last few years etc. For instance one could have climbed Around Brit tech 6a 10 years ago, but only climb 4c now, Injuries etc
Its a tough one to convey your 'ability' in such a way. It doesnt say you climbed a grade smooth and graceful or thugged it and survived within an inch of your life.
Maybe people can log the 'grades' they climb and get an average score, show a graph of what theyve done this season etc.
As for new partners issues, Id take some time before pushing my grade with someone, so in that sense BEST grades are a bit nonsense. I state S on mine, but if asked would say Grit VDiff is where id be comfy and confident of getting up 90% of stuff.
Not that likely that people would climb harder alone than with a partner tho is it?
But it asks for best ever grade, not best thos season, best in last few years etc. For instance one could have climbed Around Brit tech 6a 10 years ago, but only climb 4c now, Injuries etc
Its a tough one to convey your 'ability' in such a way. It doesnt say you climbed a grade smooth and graceful or thugged it and survived within an inch of your life.
Maybe people can log the 'grades' they climb and get an average score, show a graph of what theyve done this season etc.
As for new partners issues, Id take some time before pushing my grade with someone, so in that sense BEST grades are a bit nonsense. I state S on mine, but if asked would say Grit VDiff is where id be comfy and confident of getting up 90% of stuff.
In reply to Bingly Bong: The grade on my profile is my actual maximum leading grade at the moment, but I've done a fair few VSs now so its not like a one off....if I did have a much higher grade that was perhaps not representative of what I was normally happy to lead (for example if I'd led one E1 as a one off) then I'd say that somewhere else in my profile I think - likewise if my best onsight was years ago and I was climbing at a much lower grade at the present time.
I prefer to climb with people I know, or have climbed with before, or who have climbed with friends of mine. That said, I don't mind climbing with new people, but would check them out pretty carefully first and ask questions about what sort of routes they had climbed.
When looking at profiles I tend to think of the grades put as the max grades - especially if the grades seem a bit inconsistent (such as winter VI with summer HS and sport 6b) then I'd think they were max grades rather than typical grades and would definately ask a potential partner questions...
I prefer to climb with people I know, or have climbed with before, or who have climbed with friends of mine. That said, I don't mind climbing with new people, but would check them out pretty carefully first and ask questions about what sort of routes they had climbed.
When looking at profiles I tend to think of the grades put as the max grades - especially if the grades seem a bit inconsistent (such as winter VI with summer HS and sport 6b) then I'd think they were max grades rather than typical grades and would definately ask a potential partner questions...
In reply to Wibble Wibble:
In what way? If the question asks for best on-sigth and you answer it honestly why is that misleading?
If you have an ounce of common sense you will know that their normal lead grade is likely to be much lower - with the odd exception I am sure.
> I think 'best on sight' is a bit misleading
In what way? If the question asks for best on-sigth and you answer it honestly why is that misleading?
If you have an ounce of common sense you will know that their normal lead grade is likely to be much lower - with the odd exception I am sure.
In reply to CJD:
I have climbed with a few people met purely through Rockfax. I think you can determine fairly quickly whether or not someone is competant just by their attitude to climbing. Generally speaking if I was climbing with a stranger for the first time I would stick to single pitch routes in areas where I know I can lead out routes from (are easily escapable). Luckily I have never had any problems with anyone I have met to go climbing with of RF so I would say I am fairly trusting of peoples abilities as stated in their profiles.
I have climbed with a few people met purely through Rockfax. I think you can determine fairly quickly whether or not someone is competant just by their attitude to climbing. Generally speaking if I was climbing with a stranger for the first time I would stick to single pitch routes in areas where I know I can lead out routes from (are easily escapable). Luckily I have never had any problems with anyone I have met to go climbing with of RF so I would say I am fairly trusting of peoples abilities as stated in their profiles.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Yes, I understand that but I wouldn't go climbing with someone and push the boat out based purely on their RT profile. I'd at least talk to them and then watch how they react on the crag before doing that. It's normally airly easy to see when someone has been bullsh*tting you.
> No, but if someone said they had on-sighted say E1, when they had only managed VS and said they were perfectly happy to partner me and lead say HVS and then got in a muddle - me climbing tops VS could cause all sorts of problems...
Yes, I understand that but I wouldn't go climbing with someone and push the boat out based purely on their RT profile. I'd at least talk to them and then watch how they react on the crag before doing that. It's normally airly easy to see when someone has been bullsh*tting you.
In reply to Ali:
My profile grade is my max lead grade, I have only led 2 E1's, the last one was last october at bamford. Normally I lead VS and selected HVS's on a day out at the crag, however, right now I am leading easy VS coz I have had a couple of months off climbing.
When I'm asked I say I lead around VS/HVS coz I really don't want to bullsh*t people about my inabilities at climbing. I'm scared of getting found out and looking a nob for claiming what aint so.
My profile grade is my max lead grade, I have only led 2 E1's, the last one was last october at bamford. Normally I lead VS and selected HVS's on a day out at the crag, however, right now I am leading easy VS coz I have had a couple of months off climbing.
When I'm asked I say I lead around VS/HVS coz I really don't want to bullsh*t people about my inabilities at climbing. I'm scared of getting found out and looking a nob for claiming what aint so.
In reply to JonC: The whole thing about grades is misleading, for example that you can climb a nice safe E5 crack doesn't mean that you'd be happy on an E5 slab.
E5 on slate is (often) not the same game as E5 on grit.
VS can cover a multitude of climbing situations.
I haven't done anything 'hard' for years and to be honest other than a few exceptions have no real desire to do so anymore. Once you've lost the ability to be bold it doesn't (in my experience) return and as a result you settle back into a comfort zone.
I do however think that the grade profile should reflect one's current standard of climbing.
E5 on slate is (often) not the same game as E5 on grit.
VS can cover a multitude of climbing situations.
I haven't done anything 'hard' for years and to be honest other than a few exceptions have no real desire to do so anymore. Once you've lost the ability to be bold it doesn't (in my experience) return and as a result you settle back into a comfort zone.
I do however think that the grade profile should reflect one's current standard of climbing.
I'm really staggered that people take the profile grades seriously in the sense that you'd go climbing with someone based on what their profile says. That's not to say that the profile grades shouldn't be filled in honestly (as I have said).
I thought the idea of the profiles was simply to give other posters an idea as to the level of experience of the person they are communicating with on-line. Not so that you can suss out potential partners...
Very odd if you ask me.
I thought the idea of the profiles was simply to give other posters an idea as to the level of experience of the person they are communicating with on-line. Not so that you can suss out potential partners...
Very odd if you ask me.
In reply to JonC:
Fair point, but some people state they lead at X, when in fact that's their best onsight not routine lead grade. Like everything, the devil's in the detail.
Fair point, but some people state they lead at X, when in fact that's their best onsight not routine lead grade. Like everything, the devil's in the detail.
In reply to JonC: It must be my interpretation then.
It also boils down to the honesty of the profile holder...
If someone told me they could climb a particular grade, I would believe them.
Having read a recent 'upgraded' climbing ability on a profile, Im not so sure now...
It also boils down to the honesty of the profile holder...
If someone told me they could climb a particular grade, I would believe them.
Having read a recent 'upgraded' climbing ability on a profile, Im not so sure now...
In reply to Wibble Wibble:
I agree that if they told you that and basically lied about it and let yourself get into a mess as a result then that is a bad thing. However, I don't see that this is a problem with the profiles. It's about basic honesty, trust etc and you need to suss people out before you put yourself in harms way with them.
I agree that if they told you that and basically lied about it and let yourself get into a mess as a result then that is a bad thing. However, I don't see that this is a problem with the profiles. It's about basic honesty, trust etc and you need to suss people out before you put yourself in harms way with them.
In reply to Ali:
I think asking people about routes is a good way to go. If you are climbing around the same grade as somebody you'll probably both of done some of the same routes. It's harder for somebody to bluff about details of a route.
If I was climbing with new people (which doesn't happen that often) then I think I'd rather tell them the grade I'm comfortable with rather than the grade I've managed to struggle my way up. It's much nicer if you surprise them by being more competent than they expect rather than less competent.
I'd be much more careful about selecting a partner for a multipitch than for a single pitch. If they have an epic on a single pitch then usually no big deal but on a multipitch it could be a much bigger problem.
> That said, I don't mind climbing with new people, but would check them out pretty carefully first and ask questions about what sort of routes they had climbed.
I think asking people about routes is a good way to go. If you are climbing around the same grade as somebody you'll probably both of done some of the same routes. It's harder for somebody to bluff about details of a route.
If I was climbing with new people (which doesn't happen that often) then I think I'd rather tell them the grade I'm comfortable with rather than the grade I've managed to struggle my way up. It's much nicer if you surprise them by being more competent than they expect rather than less competent.
I'd be much more careful about selecting a partner for a multipitch than for a single pitch. If they have an epic on a single pitch then usually no big deal but on a multipitch it could be a much bigger problem.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
No.....................well I'd hardly anwer yes would I?!
> Do you exaggerate the climbing grade on your profile?
>
>
No.....................well I'd hardly anwer yes would I?!
In reply to Bingly Bong:
I think some people who look for climbing partners on here state there usual grade etc in there wordy bit of profile.
I think some people who look for climbing partners on here state there usual grade etc in there wordy bit of profile.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
And also what someone has just said, regarding rock-type. I'd say that HS on Limestone is generally easier than HS on grit (which I've seconded a couple of) - as well as being more likely to be much higher...
But I've also put several of my grit VDiffs in the Favourite Route description, as well as the HS, plus that I only started leading outdoors in June last year...
Self-deprecating, what's that then?
And also what someone has just said, regarding rock-type. I'd say that HS on Limestone is generally easier than HS on grit (which I've seconded a couple of) - as well as being more likely to be much higher...
But I've also put several of my grit VDiffs in the Favourite Route description, as well as the HS, plus that I only started leading outdoors in June last year...
Self-deprecating, what's that then?
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Solution, have an option to set Grade Looking to Find Partners to Climb With
Solution, have an option to set Grade Looking to Find Partners to Climb With
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Hey, did you ask the person why they've put a higher grade on their profile than they actually climb?
I'd be interested to know what they say. It's not me right?
Hey, did you ask the person why they've put a higher grade on their profile than they actually climb?
I'd be interested to know what they say. It's not me right?
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Not at all. I actually actively misrepresent myself as a punter because I wouldn't want all you lot to feel bad if you found out that in reality I lead multipitch E7, have numerous first ascents at Scottish VIII to my credit and last year was nominated for the Piolet d'Or for my greater ranges exploits.
I'm also much better looking than the guy I pretend is me in my photo gallery.
> Do you exaggerate the climbing grade on your profile?
Not at all. I actually actively misrepresent myself as a punter because I wouldn't want all you lot to feel bad if you found out that in reality I lead multipitch E7, have numerous first ascents at Scottish VIII to my credit and last year was nominated for the Piolet d'Or for my greater ranges exploits.
I'm also much better looking than the guy I pretend is me in my photo gallery.
In reply to Dominion: So for newbies, looking at grades is even more of a nightmare!
It doesnt state what rock the grade was achieved on - therefore, if a higher grade was achieved on an easier rock type...
I know you should trust your partner and all, but it doesnt sound good for someone looking for a new partner - to know how the different rocks affect the grade is just a mine field :oS
It doesnt state what rock the grade was achieved on - therefore, if a higher grade was achieved on an easier rock type...
I know you should trust your partner and all, but it doesnt sound good for someone looking for a new partner - to know how the different rocks affect the grade is just a mine field :oS
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Work out something better and email Alan James and the Boys
Also think one should be able to 'tag' your profile to say your looking for climbing partners, have a search facility by region etc
Work out something better and email Alan James and the Boys
Also think one should be able to 'tag' your profile to say your looking for climbing partners, have a search facility by region etc
In reply to MeMeMe: It's not you
If I asked I would just be told I know nothing and I wasnt there...
If I asked I would just be told I know nothing and I wasnt there...
In reply to sloper:
Why?
I quite like knowing what people have led in the past. If you post on here a fair bit you get to know more about people and their history. Bob's a great case in point.
If there were a profile question about "current" best or average lead grade I'd happily answer it to best of my ability but a) what is current and b) how do you assess average?
I don't think my profile or my postings on here reflects anything other than what I actually do climb. However, if in, say, two years time I was leading no harder than VS, I'm not sure I'd feel morally obliged to change my profile - unless the profile forms themselves changed.
And I don't assume that the profile of others is honest or up-to-date. That would be silly.
> I do however think that the grade profile should reflect one's current standard of climbing.
Why?
I quite like knowing what people have led in the past. If you post on here a fair bit you get to know more about people and their history. Bob's a great case in point.
If there were a profile question about "current" best or average lead grade I'd happily answer it to best of my ability but a) what is current and b) how do you assess average?
I don't think my profile or my postings on here reflects anything other than what I actually do climb. However, if in, say, two years time I was leading no harder than VS, I'm not sure I'd feel morally obliged to change my profile - unless the profile forms themselves changed.
And I don't assume that the profile of others is honest or up-to-date. That would be silly.
In reply to TobyA: psml!
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Obviously the solution is to have your profile taken from a 5 page questionnaire, setting out your life history, full and frank disclosure of every route you have ever done and it what manner, to be witnessed by a notary public and submitted for peer review.
Obviously the solution is to have your profile taken from a 5 page questionnaire, setting out your life history, full and frank disclosure of every route you have ever done and it what manner, to be witnessed by a notary public and submitted for peer review.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
I really don't understand this thing about deciding to climb with someone based on their profile grade. Climbing partner compatibility is a lot more complicated than that. The most important thing is to be able to talk to them frankly about what you have each done and would like to do.
I really don't understand this thing about deciding to climb with someone based on their profile grade. Climbing partner compatibility is a lot more complicated than that. The most important thing is to be able to talk to them frankly about what you have each done and would like to do.
In reply to Craig_M:
lol - you said in three lines what I was trying to do in half a dozen posts.
cheers
lol - you said in three lines what I was trying to do in half a dozen posts.
cheers
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Define 'easier rock type' My two best mates and myself all climb best on different rock types, with different styles.
To re-do the profiles with a 'average grade' etc would just make them too unwieldly. Just accept that they can often be taken with a pinch of salt and there meant to be fun, rather than a definitive tool.
> (In reply to Dominion)
>
> It doesnt state what rock the grade was achieved on - therefore, if a higher grade was achieved on an easier rock type...
>
> It doesnt state what rock the grade was achieved on - therefore, if a higher grade was achieved on an easier rock type...
Define 'easier rock type' My two best mates and myself all climb best on different rock types, with different styles.
To re-do the profiles with a 'average grade' etc would just make them too unwieldly. Just accept that they can often be taken with a pinch of salt and there meant to be fun, rather than a definitive tool.
In reply to Wibble Wibble: I think johns right, my best onsight in an E1, but havnt climbed anything near that for years, in fact last year I think I only led one VS, but now I generally only climb easy mountain routes, and would always let potential partners know that Im shit.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
I choose to not put any grades on my profile.
One of the things I like about climbing (and talking about climbing) is the commonality of experience irrespective of grade.
We can all* relate to a tale of runouts, small holds, exposure and being so pumped that your fingers open up.
Bringing grades into it usually just turns discussions into an overly macho willy-waving session. You can usually tell if someone knows what they're talking about without looking at their profile.
*Well alright, most of us
> Do you exaggerate the climbing grade on your profile?
>
>
I choose to not put any grades on my profile.
One of the things I like about climbing (and talking about climbing) is the commonality of experience irrespective of grade.
We can all* relate to a tale of runouts, small holds, exposure and being so pumped that your fingers open up.
Bringing grades into it usually just turns discussions into an overly macho willy-waving session. You can usually tell if someone knows what they're talking about without looking at their profile.
*Well alright, most of us
In reply to Iain Ridgway:
lol, quality phrasing there!
> and would always let potential partners know that Im shit.
lol, quality phrasing there!
In reply to Craig_M: You've just got the arse cos I wont tell you who it is... ;op
In reply to TimB:
Great point - which is what *should* be so good about RT. It's all relative. It's odd that so many of both the good and not-so-good climbers on here fail to see that so often.
> We can all* relate to a tale of runouts, small holds, exposure and being so pumped that your fingers open up.
Great point - which is what *should* be so good about RT. It's all relative. It's odd that so many of both the good and not-so-good climbers on here fail to see that so often.
In reply to Alison Stockwell: Yeah, but I dont climb that confidently, and if someone tells me not to worry about it, I tend to think Im being silly and go along with them!
I have been ok so far, but am now wondering...
I thought I could trust people to tell the truth, this one instance has changed my whole view on it - ok, maybe for the best, but I never imagined anyone would make up a better climbing ability than they really do have...
I have been ok so far, but am now wondering...
I thought I could trust people to tell the truth, this one instance has changed my whole view on it - ok, maybe for the best, but I never imagined anyone would make up a better climbing ability than they really do have...
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Did this alleged made up grade cause any problems to your own climbing? did you meet up and find they were not up to it? or you just seen it and think based on your own judgement its false? not having been there to see it? or climbed with the person enough to know there being false? (if thats true u dont need profile as u wud know them) Question, how many people on RT have seen you climb you best onsight?
Did this alleged made up grade cause any problems to your own climbing? did you meet up and find they were not up to it? or you just seen it and think based on your own judgement its false? not having been there to see it? or climbed with the person enough to know there being false? (if thats true u dont need profile as u wud know them) Question, how many people on RT have seen you climb you best onsight?
In reply to Bingly Bong:
I think it's really important to develop and trust your own judgement. As far as I'm concerned people are on trial until I'm happy that they are OK, and that goes for all walks of life, not just climbing.
> if someone tells me not to worry about it, I tend to think Im being silly and go along with them!
I think it's really important to develop and trust your own judgement. As far as I'm concerned people are on trial until I'm happy that they are OK, and that goes for all walks of life, not just climbing.
In reply to Charlie Williams:
LOL! Let's just say I think trust has to be earned.
> Incompetent until proven Gifted, eh?
LOL! Let's just say I think trust has to be earned.
In reply to Nic's Bloke: I have only climbed with people on RT... I tend to climb with groups so quite a few people see and get to hear about my achievements! (cos I am usually very surprised that I managed to do it!)
Yes, I have seen this person climb - as have a few others and all come to the same conclusion. However, new people who this person makes arrangements to climb with do not have this insight.
I guess I am too trusting - I have gone climbing with a couple of people whom I trusted and felt their ability was better than mine - but when later discussed with other climbing friends they have told me a different story - a story I wish I had known before setting of and climbing with them...
Yes, I have seen this person climb - as have a few others and all come to the same conclusion. However, new people who this person makes arrangements to climb with do not have this insight.
I guess I am too trusting - I have gone climbing with a couple of people whom I trusted and felt their ability was better than mine - but when later discussed with other climbing friends they have told me a different story - a story I wish I had known before setting of and climbing with them...
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Perhaps it would be helpful to indicate when the claimed best grades were climbed to put them in context. -- Mine were several years ago, -- bu**ered if I can lead much above severe these days.
MUST GET OUT MORE
Perhaps it would be helpful to indicate when the claimed best grades were climbed to put them in context. -- Mine were several years ago, -- bu**ered if I can lead much above severe these days.
MUST GET OUT MORE
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Is this person looking for climbing partners to climb this allegedly inflated grade?
How do you or friends judge someones ability? you see Mr X easily lead E1 Crack at Stanage one saturday few months ago in glorious sunshine on a cold crisp day? or a damp VDiff slab in Nth Wales in September? Or even Boulder badly cos there in pain, but dont want to waste the trip there on?
Grades are crap IMHO, useful to a point. They help you judge what you can attempt at a crag, gauge your progress etc get some idea of a new partner, but ther relative and very open to mis understanding etc
Is this person looking for climbing partners to climb this allegedly inflated grade?
How do you or friends judge someones ability? you see Mr X easily lead E1 Crack at Stanage one saturday few months ago in glorious sunshine on a cold crisp day? or a damp VDiff slab in Nth Wales in September? Or even Boulder badly cos there in pain, but dont want to waste the trip there on?
Grades are crap IMHO, useful to a point. They help you judge what you can attempt at a crag, gauge your progress etc get some idea of a new partner, but ther relative and very open to mis understanding etc
In reply to Nic's Bloke: They help you judge what you can attempt at a crag
I'll attempt anything at a crag - getting off the floor is a totally different matter though...
I'll attempt anything at a crag - getting off the floor is a totally different matter though...
In reply to Bingly Bong: In fact - my climbing buddies now refuse to tell me the grade of a climb because once I know it and think it's too hard will pull out... whereas, if I dont know, I'll have a bash - usually because they say I can do it...
In reply to Bingly Bong:
So you fancy a crack at Equilibrium then?
Think ur missing something here, hope whoever it is, isnt offended by ur accusations here. Maybe have once on a very good day onsighted that grade.
So you fancy a crack at Equilibrium then?
Think ur missing something here, hope whoever it is, isnt offended by ur accusations here. Maybe have once on a very good day onsighted that grade.
In reply to Bingly Bong: I am shocked and appalled but such things, what ever happened to the honour system!
In reply to Flatlander: I wouldnt climb stairs with you ;op
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Hmmm, I wouldn't like to climb with someone who climbed better than me unless I knew them very well. That's because I am not happy unless I'm in control and I wouldn't trust them not to try and over-dominate. I've seen some dreaful scenes of egotistical usually- males dragging unhappy partners about on the crag and there is no way I would be prepared to put up with that. Usually I climb with people who are about the same standard as me, or are still getting there.
On the other hand, people say I would benefit a lot from climbing with someone who climbs harder and they are probably right. I did go climbing a few times once with a lady who led E4 and she did wonders for my confidence.
Hmmm, I wouldn't like to climb with someone who climbed better than me unless I knew them very well. That's because I am not happy unless I'm in control and I wouldn't trust them not to try and over-dominate. I've seen some dreaful scenes of egotistical usually- males dragging unhappy partners about on the crag and there is no way I would be prepared to put up with that. Usually I climb with people who are about the same standard as me, or are still getting there.
On the other hand, people say I would benefit a lot from climbing with someone who climbs harder and they are probably right. I did go climbing a few times once with a lady who led E4 and she did wonders for my confidence.
In reply to Nic's Bloke: Maybe, but why only claim it now?
In reply to Bingly Bong:
C'mon, name names! You're almost there, you know you want to. They'll have guessed anyway by now, and you'll be doing a public service. Go on...
C'mon, name names! You're almost there, you know you want to. They'll have guessed anyway by now, and you'll be doing a public service. Go on...
In reply to Bingly Bong:
It does state best onsight, which for me is E1 and therefore Ive filled in E1. However, Ive only done one of these, and can only really claim to be competant leading VS, with a few HVSs thrown in (hopefully this will change once I get going this summer though). I think if I was climbing with someone I didnt know I'd have a look at the grade they gave as an indication, but I wouldn't set off up a multipitch route near that limit with them anyway, I'd want to climb with them on something well below our limits or on single-pitch stuff first so I knew more about them. Its usually nicer climbing with friends anyway though.
Si
It does state best onsight, which for me is E1 and therefore Ive filled in E1. However, Ive only done one of these, and can only really claim to be competant leading VS, with a few HVSs thrown in (hopefully this will change once I get going this summer though). I think if I was climbing with someone I didnt know I'd have a look at the grade they gave as an indication, but I wouldn't set off up a multipitch route near that limit with them anyway, I'd want to climb with them on something well below our limits or on single-pitch stuff first so I knew more about them. Its usually nicer climbing with friends anyway though.
Si
In reply to Alison Stockwell:
...or even E4
...or even E4
In reply to Alison Stockwell: I think I have to work on my confidence when out climbing - but I dont think I could climb with anyone who does not climb above my ability - since I am not confident that my grade is good (this may not read as I mean it :oS )
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Why claim it ever?
Maybe I should take my Winter Grade off, seeing as no one on RT has ever seen me climb in Winter conditions, or maybe font grade as only 1 person saw me climb a 4, actually only 1 poster has seen me lead Severe also, few seen me second it.
Anyone want to volunteer to be my witnesses? need 2 sound, sane people to record all my climbs for me so that no one is in any doubt.
Its all a bit abusrd this thread, if you doubt someone for any reason, dont climb with them, you dont have to! How other people judge this person is there own business.
Why claim it ever?
Maybe I should take my Winter Grade off, seeing as no one on RT has ever seen me climb in Winter conditions, or maybe font grade as only 1 person saw me climb a 4, actually only 1 poster has seen me lead Severe also, few seen me second it.
Anyone want to volunteer to be my witnesses? need 2 sound, sane people to record all my climbs for me so that no one is in any doubt.
Its all a bit abusrd this thread, if you doubt someone for any reason, dont climb with them, you dont have to! How other people judge this person is there own business.
In reply to Bingly Bong: you can't climb stairs so it shouldn't be a problem :P
In reply to Bingly Bong:
I don't see how you can gain confidence without being in control; even if that means building up on easy climbs to start with. I don't understand this thing about not wanting to know the grade either. How can you select the right route for you unless you've studied it first?
I don't see how you can gain confidence without being in control; even if that means building up on easy climbs to start with. I don't understand this thing about not wanting to know the grade either. How can you select the right route for you unless you've studied it first?
In reply to Nic's Bloke: When I complete a climb, I even ask if I did it properly, ie didnt miss a crucial move... I'd hate to claim I did something to find out I was kidding myself and others - but then I am no where near experienced enough to judge my own climbing - I do need the back up and opinions of other, better climbers than me.
In reply to Nic's Bloke:
>Its all a bit abusrd this thread
Understatement of the day. A friend of mine actually set a new years resolution to _not_ respond to stupid threads on RT. This is a prime example of a load of b*ll*cks.
>Its all a bit abusrd this thread
Understatement of the day. A friend of mine actually set a new years resolution to _not_ respond to stupid threads on RT. This is a prime example of a load of b*ll*cks.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
You might find climbing with someone of a similar ability rather than better helps you more - it doesnt do your confidence any good if your partner streaks up something and then you struggle on it. If you led that arete at portland then youre easily capable of leading most vdiffs, so next time youre out why not go off with someone of a similar ability and get as many vdiffs or similar done as you can? Youll probably be surprised how much you get done and how much you enjoy it more than climbing with people better than you. And its always great for confidence if you lead something and then your partner of supposedly similar ability struggles to 2nd it
Si
You might find climbing with someone of a similar ability rather than better helps you more - it doesnt do your confidence any good if your partner streaks up something and then you struggle on it. If you led that arete at portland then youre easily capable of leading most vdiffs, so next time youre out why not go off with someone of a similar ability and get as many vdiffs or similar done as you can? Youll probably be surprised how much you get done and how much you enjoy it more than climbing with people better than you. And its always great for confidence if you lead something and then your partner of supposedly similar ability struggles to 2nd it
Si
In reply to Alison Stockwell: I climb low grades...
The confidence comes from completing a few routes/problems... If I left it completely to my own judgement, I would totally sit on the sidelines and watch all the time (unless there was a Mod near...)
The confidence comes from completing a few routes/problems... If I left it completely to my own judgement, I would totally sit on the sidelines and watch all the time (unless there was a Mod near...)
In reply to Derbyshire Ben:
ever get the feeling the moderators are weeping with laughter/shaking their heads at all of this?
ever get the feeling the moderators are weeping with laughter/shaking their heads at all of this?
In reply to CJD:
I doubt it... they're probably more concerned about losing advertising revenue due to people leaving in their droves.
I doubt it... they're probably more concerned about losing advertising revenue due to people leaving in their droves.
In reply to Si dH: hmmm, I see where you are coming from - but am not convinced I could get myself and a second out of a tricky 'easy graded route' situation! Which is why I prefer to climb with more experience people - and if they tell me/indicate they are better - who am I to know/argue?
PS Where is my confidence hiding?
PS Where is my confidence hiding?
In reply to Derbyshire Ben:
ah, but as one lot leave, so another lot arrive... such is the way of these things... perhaps.
ah, but as one lot leave, so another lot arrive... such is the way of these things... perhaps.
In reply to Derbyshire Ben: And why would they be leaving?
In reply to Bingly Bong: The grade's in my profile are about right although I've just realised my winter grade is missing. I was comfortably leading VS two years ago so that is what is on my profile. Last year I didn't have a very good season and only got up one VS but I'm hoping to get back on them early doors this year.
<hijack>Did you get my email this morning? I'm not sure if our system is working properly </hijack>
<hijack>Did you get my email this morning? I'm not sure if our system is working properly </hijack>
In reply to Dave80: Yes I did, but since I haven't had a response to my reply, Im guessing you didnt get mine... :oS
In reply to Bingly Bong: Nope but it looks like it might be working again now!
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Not for the first time, I’m gobsmacked by some of you people. The profiles aren’t job applications, for God’s sake.
And anyway how is this disaster going to occur, exactly? Presumably the idea is that I cybermeet some bullshitter, and we arrange as a first date to meet a deux on some remote crag to do some multi-pitch route which is too hard for me to lead. Well, frankly that already contains a few unlikelihoods, but let’s say it happens. If our hero fails on the first pitch then I’ll know what to do – tie him off and walk home – so presumably the trouble arises on the second pitch after I’ve led the first. In my experience of this kind of individual they don’t normally get far enough to cause a real crisis, but let’s say they do and the next I know they’re hanging unconscious on the rope.
Well hey, it could happen. Could happen with any regular partner too, mind, and I guess in theory we’d all better either know what to do or have the nous to work it out when it happens. But I’d put it rather in the invasion-from-Mars category; not really worth worrying about.
It doesn’t have to be cyberspace, mind. I remember a character from Mile End who used to talk all the time about 6c moves, when in reality he quite frequently used to fail on 5a ones. Given that I had seen him fail on Birch Tree Wall (is that what it’s called? That classic VS at Black Rocks) all of four feet up (just by his second runner, in fact) it was perhaps unwise of me, but I agreed to do Spacewalk on Lundy with him. I had done my homework: my plan was to lead pitches one and three. I didn’t think he could make too much of a mess of pitch two, a short 5a pitch which my informant had told me was well-protected. I was wrong: he started flailing absurdly and eventually belayed in the middle of it (about 15 feet above the stance). I climbed past him and up to the second belay, and unwisely (a) didn’t just continue, and (b) allowed him to have a go at the top 5b pitch, since it didn’t look too bad. A few minutes later he was thirty feet above me, shaking like a bastard, and, after pulling out his other two runners, had just kicked out the only one left between me and him. I was terrified: sure I was about to be pulled off the stance and die, even supposing he didn’t actually fall directly on to me.
He made it of course – they usually do – but it was a lesson to me. Still, like I say, you can be quite experienced and still fall for this sort of thing in real life, so worrying about profiles is a bit daft.
Not for the first time, I’m gobsmacked by some of you people. The profiles aren’t job applications, for God’s sake.
And anyway how is this disaster going to occur, exactly? Presumably the idea is that I cybermeet some bullshitter, and we arrange as a first date to meet a deux on some remote crag to do some multi-pitch route which is too hard for me to lead. Well, frankly that already contains a few unlikelihoods, but let’s say it happens. If our hero fails on the first pitch then I’ll know what to do – tie him off and walk home – so presumably the trouble arises on the second pitch after I’ve led the first. In my experience of this kind of individual they don’t normally get far enough to cause a real crisis, but let’s say they do and the next I know they’re hanging unconscious on the rope.
Well hey, it could happen. Could happen with any regular partner too, mind, and I guess in theory we’d all better either know what to do or have the nous to work it out when it happens. But I’d put it rather in the invasion-from-Mars category; not really worth worrying about.
It doesn’t have to be cyberspace, mind. I remember a character from Mile End who used to talk all the time about 6c moves, when in reality he quite frequently used to fail on 5a ones. Given that I had seen him fail on Birch Tree Wall (is that what it’s called? That classic VS at Black Rocks) all of four feet up (just by his second runner, in fact) it was perhaps unwise of me, but I agreed to do Spacewalk on Lundy with him. I had done my homework: my plan was to lead pitches one and three. I didn’t think he could make too much of a mess of pitch two, a short 5a pitch which my informant had told me was well-protected. I was wrong: he started flailing absurdly and eventually belayed in the middle of it (about 15 feet above the stance). I climbed past him and up to the second belay, and unwisely (a) didn’t just continue, and (b) allowed him to have a go at the top 5b pitch, since it didn’t look too bad. A few minutes later he was thirty feet above me, shaking like a bastard, and, after pulling out his other two runners, had just kicked out the only one left between me and him. I was terrified: sure I was about to be pulled off the stance and die, even supposing he didn’t actually fall directly on to me.
He made it of course – they usually do – but it was a lesson to me. Still, like I say, you can be quite experienced and still fall for this sort of thing in real life, so worrying about profiles is a bit daft.
In reply to Anonymous:
roflmao
I'm assuming that's you putting it all into perspective john
for once we seem to be on the same side of this "debate"
so much for climbing being largely about good judgment, independence etc etc
roflmao
I'm assuming that's you putting it all into perspective john
for once we seem to be on the same side of this "debate"
so much for climbing being largely about good judgment, independence etc etc
In reply to JonC: Well I just wish I had the good judgement of you better experienced climbers
But for me it looks like I'll be watching rather than doing from now on, since I do not feel I am able to comment or judge on the general ability of climbers and that I was using their profile grades as indicators...
But for me it looks like I'll be watching rather than doing from now on, since I do not feel I am able to comment or judge on the general ability of climbers and that I was using their profile grades as indicators...
In reply to Bingly Bong:
if you have an epic cos someone was a blagging then that's just extra value for money i rekon. i'd be more worried about going climbing with someone that bored me to death the whole day.
if you have an epic cos someone was a blagging then that's just extra value for money i rekon. i'd be more worried about going climbing with someone that bored me to death the whole day.
In reply to Anonymous:
Too true, I lie for England when doing job applications.
> (In reply to Bingly Bong)
>
> Not for the first time, I’m gobsmacked by some of you people. The profiles aren’t job applications, for God’s sake.
>
> Not for the first time, I’m gobsmacked by some of you people. The profiles aren’t job applications, for God’s sake.
Too true, I lie for England when doing job applications.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
>Derbyshire Ben: And why would they be leaving?
See my earlier comment about this thread being a load of b*ll*cks.
Thank god that JCM managed to muster the energy to type a sensible comment.
>Derbyshire Ben: And why would they be leaving?
See my earlier comment about this thread being a load of b*ll*cks.
Thank god that JCM managed to muster the energy to type a sensible comment.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
What you need is good judgement full stop, not necessarily being an experienced climber.
> (In reply to JonC) Well I just wish I had the good judgement of you better experienced climbers
What you need is good judgement full stop, not necessarily being an experienced climber.
In reply to Anonymous: Nice story John (it presume that is JCM) I had a similar experience on Gogarth with a lad that I met in the Anal Arms, not a good day out.
In reply to Derbyshire Ben: Not as if this is the only thread being a load of bollocks is it ? so you can hardly single out one thread for people leaving in droves...
In reply to JonC: I know where I am a good judge, and I know where I am a bad judge - which is why I look at grades claimed...
In reply to Bingly Bong:
It's alright, I'm not blaming you in particular and it was a flippant comment, but I can only say that I was as gobsmacked as our mysteriously anonymous friend.
It's alright, I'm not blaming you in particular and it was a flippant comment, but I can only say that I was as gobsmacked as our mysteriously anonymous friend.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Don't worry so much about grades maybe - before you get on anything hard (for you) with someone you need to be comfortable with them. Which means taking to them, watching them, getting to know them. Alison's point really.
Of course, if the route is easy for you then this doesn't apply and you can drag them up it!
> which is why I look at grades claimed...
Don't worry so much about grades maybe - before you get on anything hard (for you) with someone you need to be comfortable with them. Which means taking to them, watching them, getting to know them. Alison's point really.
Of course, if the route is easy for you then this doesn't apply and you can drag them up it!
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Well I would offer to take you out, but I'm afraid I don't have a profile, so I've never climbed anything.
Seriously though, what's the worst thing that can happen to you if you pick a single-pitch crag?
In reply to someone above about being bored all day, this I must say has never happened to me. I've climbed with a good many people who are pretty tiresome in real life, and I can honestly say I've never had a problem having a good day with anyone: there's not that much you need to talk about when climbing, and anyway the whole thing breaks down barriers wonderfully. Very few people indeed are really so boring that you can't get on with them OK for a day.
jcm
Well I would offer to take you out, but I'm afraid I don't have a profile, so I've never climbed anything.
Seriously though, what's the worst thing that can happen to you if you pick a single-pitch crag?
In reply to someone above about being bored all day, this I must say has never happened to me. I've climbed with a good many people who are pretty tiresome in real life, and I can honestly say I've never had a problem having a good day with anyone: there's not that much you need to talk about when climbing, and anyway the whole thing breaks down barriers wonderfully. Very few people indeed are really so boring that you can't get on with them OK for a day.
jcm
In reply to Anonymous:
Didn't you and Adam meet up on a cybernet date to climb something moderately difficult - and fail? Who was doing the bullsh*tting?
Didn't you and Adam meet up on a cybernet date to climb something moderately difficult - and fail? Who was doing the bullsh*tting?
In reply to Anonymous:
Not boring maybe; but did I climb with someone once who was so infuriating that it's amazing one of us didn't push the other one off.
> Very few people indeed are really so boring that you can't get on with them OK for a day.
>
Hmmmm.....
>
Not boring maybe; but did I climb with someone once who was so infuriating that it's amazing one of us didn't push the other one off.
In reply to JonC:
Adam L? No, we first met at Mile End. And IIRC our first route was The Mau Mau, on which we put up a pitiful display. But if we had met in the fashion you describe I'm sure we'd both have been bullshitting terribly, knowing us as I do.
I can't think of any RT first dates offhand. I suppose I had a first date with Alan J, Tobyfk, DerbyshireBen on The Vice, when as fate would have it I turned out not to have been bullshitting. And duncanc on Cloggy, but that was a rehabilitational day out on VSs. lose7lbs I first met in a pub in London - can't actually think of any other RTers I've met through RT and climbed with, though I'm sure there must be one or two. John Gillott I certainly first met in a pub to argue about mathematics (lost horribly: his user profile totally misleading on the point).
Adam L? No, we first met at Mile End. And IIRC our first route was The Mau Mau, on which we put up a pitiful display. But if we had met in the fashion you describe I'm sure we'd both have been bullshitting terribly, knowing us as I do.
I can't think of any RT first dates offhand. I suppose I had a first date with Alan J, Tobyfk, DerbyshireBen on The Vice, when as fate would have it I turned out not to have been bullshitting. And duncanc on Cloggy, but that was a rehabilitational day out on VSs. lose7lbs I first met in a pub in London - can't actually think of any other RTers I've met through RT and climbed with, though I'm sure there must be one or two. John Gillott I certainly first met in a pub to argue about mathematics (lost horribly: his user profile totally misleading on the point).
In reply to Anonymous:
Unfortunately, any injury stopping me from being able to look after or support my children
> (In reply to Bingly Bong)
>
> Well I would offer to take you out, but I'm afraid I don't have a profile, so I've never climbed anything.
>
So I'd hope you would be able to give me a couple of names to vouch for you (both climbing wise and mass murdering type wise)
>
> Well I would offer to take you out, but I'm afraid I don't have a profile, so I've never climbed anything.
>
> Seriously though, what's the worst thing that can happen to you if you pick a single-pitch crag?
>
>
Unfortunately, any injury stopping me from being able to look after or support my children
In reply to Anonymous:
Yes, that Adam - but didn't know you knew him beforehand. Having said that, didn't you give him a belay test at Mile End before venturing forth outside?
Yes, that Adam - but didn't know you knew him beforehand. Having said that, didn't you give him a belay test at Mile End before venturing forth outside?
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Sure, but how much more likely are to get injured at, say, Stanage, if it turns out that your partner says he can lead E3 and in fact can only lead HVS with a following wind? HE might be more likely to get injured, sure, but who cares about him - that's what your mobile phone's for. As for yourself, you just need someone who can belay properly, and that's got nothing to do with grades.
To be honest if someone asked me for a couple of references before a day climbing at Stanage I'd tell them to get lost. If that's your attitude then I do think another sport would be more suitable.
jcm
Sure, but how much more likely are to get injured at, say, Stanage, if it turns out that your partner says he can lead E3 and in fact can only lead HVS with a following wind? HE might be more likely to get injured, sure, but who cares about him - that's what your mobile phone's for. As for yourself, you just need someone who can belay properly, and that's got nothing to do with grades.
To be honest if someone asked me for a couple of references before a day climbing at Stanage I'd tell them to get lost. If that's your attitude then I do think another sport would be more suitable.
jcm
In reply to JonC:
No, of course not. I've climbed with all sorts of people and I've never contemplated a 'belay test'.
Having said that, IIRC I took an early opportunity on the Mau Mau to check up on his ability in this area.
jcm
No, of course not. I've climbed with all sorts of people and I've never contemplated a 'belay test'.
Having said that, IIRC I took an early opportunity on the Mau Mau to check up on his ability in this area.
jcm
In reply to Anonymous: I have a bit of tact - If I didnt know you or anything about you, i'd either politely refuse to meet up with you or see if anyone else I know knows of you - but Id be stupid not to get some background on you...
See ya point about belaying and stuff - but what if I started a climb, either leading or seconding, and couldnt finish it?
See ya point about belaying and stuff - but what if I started a climb, either leading or seconding, and couldnt finish it?
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Could you put us all out of our misery and dish the dirt?
Ta.
If it's Clive Higgs, everyone in Leicester knows already.
G
Could you put us all out of our misery and dish the dirt?
Ta.
If it's Clive Higgs, everyone in Leicester knows already.
G
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Then your new-found mate would have to lower you to the ground. It's true that you might have to walk round and abseil for the gear, and if you don't know how to do that then you might lose a bit of gear. The simplest solution to that is to use the other person's gear, but at a pinch I suppose you could try learning how to abseil.
As to the reference business, words fail me, pretty much. If I like someone's postings, I'd be happy to climb with them - let's face it, there's nothing to belaying technically. You put the rope through here, and if I fall off, you hold on to it. If you're not paying attention, it won't work so well, but I don't know that references help a lot with that.
jcm
Then your new-found mate would have to lower you to the ground. It's true that you might have to walk round and abseil for the gear, and if you don't know how to do that then you might lose a bit of gear. The simplest solution to that is to use the other person's gear, but at a pinch I suppose you could try learning how to abseil.
As to the reference business, words fail me, pretty much. If I like someone's postings, I'd be happy to climb with them - let's face it, there's nothing to belaying technically. You put the rope through here, and if I fall off, you hold on to it. If you're not paying attention, it won't work so well, but I don't know that references help a lot with that.
jcm
In reply to Anonymous:
??? are you serious?
I have read posts by a lot of people on here, and would sooner climb with some of them than get into a debate about top roping/pof/sport climbing or any non climbing related topic etc
I may not like their postings but I respect their knowledge and experience actually climbing!
> (In reply to Bingly Bong)
>
> If I like someone's postings, I'd be happy to climb with them
>
> If I like someone's postings, I'd be happy to climb with them
??? are you serious?
I have read posts by a lot of people on here, and would sooner climb with some of them than get into a debate about top roping/pof/sport climbing or any non climbing related topic etc
I may not like their postings but I respect their knowledge and experience actually climbing!
In reply to Anonymous: I am assuming that your climbing ability is significantly higher than mine and you are, therefore, able to get yourself out of any minor incidents... however, a minor incident to you is a major one to me :oS
In reply to Bingly Bong:Perhaps it would be better for prospective partners if they could see on your profile:
How many partners you've killed.
How many you've merely hospitalised
And how many were able to make it back to the car with some assistance.
That should make for a more informed choice.
How many partners you've killed.
How many you've merely hospitalised
And how many were able to make it back to the car with some assistance.
That should make for a more informed choice.
In reply to Serpico: I doubt anyone is that honest
In reply to Ali:
Thats why I put on mine my real standard as an aside. I have done some harder routes and can climb at that standard when fit, but my solid grade is clear there as well. Hence anyone looking for new partners in an area wouldnt contact me under false pretences on my part...
> if I did have a much higher grade that was perhaps not representative of what I was normally happy to lead (for example if I'd led one E1 as a one off) then I'd say that somewhere else in my profile I think -
Thats why I put on mine my real standard as an aside. I have done some harder routes and can climb at that standard when fit, but my solid grade is clear there as well. Hence anyone looking for new partners in an area wouldnt contact me under false pretences on my part...
In reply to JonC:
"Yes, I find climbing really hard"
> A bigger question is what do you say when someone asks you how hard you climb?
"Yes, I find climbing really hard"
In reply to Robbie H: I find most climbs hard at some point... does that mean I climb hard?
In reply to Dominion:
Perhaps UKC should follow the lead of Aussie site thecrag.com and let us create personal on-line ticklists. You could then access someones "grade pyramid" and get a good idea of their depth of experience.
Of course, then any pretence I make of actually working would probably have to cease.
Perhaps UKC should follow the lead of Aussie site thecrag.com and let us create personal on-line ticklists. You could then access someones "grade pyramid" and get a good idea of their depth of experience.
Of course, then any pretence I make of actually working would probably have to cease.
In reply to Anni: I was actually thinking of you as the perfect example when writing that post Knowing you though, you'll probably be back up in the Es in no time...grrrr - not that i'm jealous or anything
In reply to Bingly Bong:
that rock stuff *is* pretty hard. unless it's soft southern sandstone I guess.
that rock stuff *is* pretty hard. unless it's soft southern sandstone I guess.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
In my case substitute/insert "all" and "always"
> (In reply to Robbie H) I find most climbs hard at some point... does that mean I climb hard?
In my case substitute/insert "all" and "always"
In reply to Anni:
But are you really solid at VS/HVS? I mean, what's your jamming like on grit at HVS?
But are you really solid at VS/HVS? I mean, what's your jamming like on grit at HVS?
In reply to JonC:
and does VS include Scottish VS? In fact, why isn't that listed as an option in the grades?
and does VS include Scottish VS? In fact, why isn't that listed as an option in the grades?
In reply to Anonymous:
Based on prior postings re. crag swag I'd be nervous climbing with some partners - in case they tied me off just past the crux and then soloed up to retrieve the abandoned gear
> (In reply to Bingly Bong)
>
> Then your new-found mate would have to lower you to the ground. It's true that you might have to walk round and abseil for the gear, and if you don't know how to do that then you might lose a bit of gear. The simplest solution to that is to use the other person's gear, but at a pinch I suppose you could try learning how to abseil.
> jcm
>
> Then your new-found mate would have to lower you to the ground. It's true that you might have to walk round and abseil for the gear, and if you don't know how to do that then you might lose a bit of gear. The simplest solution to that is to use the other person's gear, but at a pinch I suppose you could try learning how to abseil.
> jcm
Based on prior postings re. crag swag I'd be nervous climbing with some partners - in case they tied me off just past the crux and then soloed up to retrieve the abandoned gear
In reply to JonC: I use Anni as a sort of marker for myself...
If she can do it with ease - I'll have a go
If she struggles - I go for a little walk
If she really really struggles - I run off very quickly
:oS
If she can do it with ease - I'll have a go
If she struggles - I go for a little walk
If she really really struggles - I run off very quickly
:oS
In reply to Robbie H: Also, I remember someone saying something about racks and if all gear was shiny...
I would just have thought that they looked after it/cleaned it very well - not that they hadnt actually been using it!
I would just have thought that they looked after it/cleaned it very well - not that they hadnt actually been using it!
In reply to Bingly Bong:
lol - I hope that's a joke...
Also watch out for people who are too careful with their gear, keep in separate bags, tag it all with coloured stars, and rack it obsessively. Bound to be a bit dodgy..
> I would just have thought that they looked after it/cleaned it very well - not that they hadnt actually been using it!
lol - I hope that's a joke...
Also watch out for people who are too careful with their gear, keep in separate bags, tag it all with coloured stars, and rack it obsessively. Bound to be a bit dodgy..
In reply to Bingly Bong:
Look at the teeth on the cams, if they're chewed up a bit at least their gear holds when they lob off. Of course, it does reveal a worrying disposition towards air-miles.
Look at the teeth on the cams, if they're chewed up a bit at least their gear holds when they lob off. Of course, it does reveal a worrying disposition towards air-miles.
In reply to JonC:
Apparently I was 'born to jam' after a friend took me to Almscliffe for the first time. Ive jammed on HVS instead of mantled (Demon wall) so ummm...yeah, I can jam. In fact one of my projects for this year is embankment 4 at Millstone for the sole reason its a jamming crack and after an initiatioon to jam cracks in the states...? So nuuur :oP
Apparently I was 'born to jam' after a friend took me to Almscliffe for the first time. Ive jammed on HVS instead of mantled (Demon wall) so ummm...yeah, I can jam. In fact one of my projects for this year is embankment 4 at Millstone for the sole reason its a jamming crack and after an initiatioon to jam cracks in the states...? So nuuur :oP
In reply to JonC:
Glad I dropped back to read this, will put all my new gear away and get out the old stuff I retired.
Stupid of me to replace it, now no one will climb with me!
Glad I dropped back to read this, will put all my new gear away and get out the old stuff I retired.
Stupid of me to replace it, now no one will climb with me!
In reply to JonC: Why? climbing gear isnt cheap - I look after what little (and its very little) I have...
I'd also make sure I took it all home with me so would want to *tag* it so that I would know if any bits were missing
I'd also make sure I took it all home with me so would want to *tag* it so that I would know if any bits were missing
In reply to Anni:
Careful madam, you'll get your head stuck again ;op
> (In reply to JonC)
>
> Apparently I was 'born to jam' after a friend took me to Almscliffe for the first time. Ive jammed on HVS instead of mantled (Demon wall) so ummm...yeah, I can jam. In fact one of my projects for this year is embankment 4 at Millstone for the sole reason its a jamming crack and after an initiatioon to jam cracks in the states...? So nuuur :oP
>
>
>
> Apparently I was 'born to jam' after a friend took me to Almscliffe for the first time. Ive jammed on HVS instead of mantled (Demon wall) so ummm...yeah, I can jam. In fact one of my projects for this year is embankment 4 at Millstone for the sole reason its a jamming crack and after an initiatioon to jam cracks in the states...? So nuuur :oP
>
>
Careful madam, you'll get your head stuck again ;op
In reply to JonC:
Hmmm ... I obsessively silicon spray my ice-screws and sharpen the tools before/after a winter trip.
I also have nightmares sometimes about racking up perfectly orderly and then when I get on the climb not being able to find anything to fit any of the placements.
Wonder what Jung would have made of that? Please don't tell be what Freud would have said I don't want to know.
Hmmm ... I obsessively silicon spray my ice-screws and sharpen the tools before/after a winter trip.
I also have nightmares sometimes about racking up perfectly orderly and then when I get on the climb not being able to find anything to fit any of the placements.
Wonder what Jung would have made of that? Please don't tell be what Freud would have said I don't want to know.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
I thought it was just HoseyB who used head jams?
> (In reply to Anni)
> [...]
>
> Careful madam, you'll get your head stuck again ;op
> [...]
>
> Careful madam, you'll get your head stuck again ;op
I thought it was just HoseyB who used head jams?
In reply to JonC:
A lot of my gear is still shiney...but thats for a few main reasons:
1) I dont have a car, so generally tend to use the gear the person in the car brought as its too bloody heavy to get in and out of work with...
2) I dont place as much gear as I should (bad for my second I know, im working on it!!)
3) My hexes are shiney as I only use em when I really need to, I prefer mostly finding the placements without having to take my own body weight again in metalwork...
4) I havnt been trad climbing since before xmas so have a nice shiney friend to scratch up soon :oD
Anyone who bags and tags gear should be called a rambler and have their possetions removed :oP
A lot of my gear is still shiney...but thats for a few main reasons:
1) I dont have a car, so generally tend to use the gear the person in the car brought as its too bloody heavy to get in and out of work with...
2) I dont place as much gear as I should (bad for my second I know, im working on it!!)
3) My hexes are shiney as I only use em when I really need to, I prefer mostly finding the placements without having to take my own body weight again in metalwork...
4) I havnt been trad climbing since before xmas so have a nice shiney friend to scratch up soon :oD
Anyone who bags and tags gear should be called a rambler and have their possetions removed :oP
In reply to CJD: I dont think anni's will be intentional
<BB has now just signed her own death certificate> :oS
<BB has now just signed her own death certificate> :oS
In reply to Anni: embankment 4 is all finger locks, bond street and embankment 2 have some proper jamming.
In reply to Bingly Bong:
I'm not sure I can remember hearing of anyone losing their second.
G
> (In reply to Anni) What about bagging and tagging a second?
I'm not sure I can remember hearing of anyone losing their second.
G
In reply to Jon Greengrass:
Yup. Finger jamming..he asked about jamming on grit, he didnt specify what type
Yup. Finger jamming..he asked about jamming on grit, he didnt specify what type
In reply to Jon Greengrass:
Agreed. Take a bunch of medium to large cams and tackle Dexterity.
Makes a lovely A1.
G
> (In reply to Anni) embankment 4 is all finger locks, bond street and embankment 2 have some proper jamming.
Agreed. Take a bunch of medium to large cams and tackle Dexterity.
Makes a lovely A1.
G
In reply to Ali:
Have a nice E2 at Staden I got my eye on at the moment...just have to suss out the finish on the E1 next to it before attempting...funnily enough it seems that going to be the hard part, I know I can do the E2 bit :oS
Have a nice E2 at Staden I got my eye on at the moment...just have to suss out the finish on the E1 next to it before attempting...funnily enough it seems that going to be the hard part, I know I can do the E2 bit :oS
In reply to Craig_M:
The arseless wonder! Long time, no see.
I doubt it. Tis well known that I'm crap; and I have several RT witnesses to prove it.
G
The arseless wonder! Long time, no see.
I doubt it. Tis well known that I'm crap; and I have several RT witnesses to prove it.
G
In reply to Graham:
I know, its just another facet of the dark side, but I just cant seem to help its tantalising lure....
I know, its just another facet of the dark side, but I just cant seem to help its tantalising lure....
In reply to Derbyshire Ben:
Whatever that thing is that finishes up The Nails, presumably. Welcome to Hard Times, is it?
jcm
Whatever that thing is that finishes up The Nails, presumably. Welcome to Hard Times, is it?
jcm
In reply to Derbyshire Ben:
The Nails and Welcome to Hard times. Im also itching to do Bicycle Repair man there
Rockfax database has the nails down as HVS now I notice, in the guide they just produced it was graded E1 for the direct or is that just me??
The Nails and Welcome to Hard times. Im also itching to do Bicycle Repair man there
Rockfax database has the nails down as HVS now I notice, in the guide they just produced it was graded E1 for the direct or is that just me??
In reply to thread in general:
Hmmm, got half way through this thread then decided I'd better get back to work! Thought I'd write a reply first though.
I think Bingly Bong's original point was about lying about grades, rather than trusting profile grades when you arrange to meet up with someone (as people have pointed out, routes vary greatly and even if you can lead VS comfortably on, say, grit, doesn't mean you can do it on a long limestone route).
If you lie about grades though, it goes against the whole ethics of climbing. It's an honestly sport, and not a competition.
Hmmm, got half way through this thread then decided I'd better get back to work! Thought I'd write a reply first though.
I think Bingly Bong's original point was about lying about grades, rather than trusting profile grades when you arrange to meet up with someone (as people have pointed out, routes vary greatly and even if you can lead VS comfortably on, say, grit, doesn't mean you can do it on a long limestone route).
If you lie about grades though, it goes against the whole ethics of climbing. It's an honestly sport, and not a competition.
In reply to Anni:
Both good routes Anni. The Nails was soft'ish at HVS so you shouldn't have a problem and Welcome To Hard Times is a good 'un too. The one I remember being most difficult is the HVS finger crack next to Bicycle...
Both good routes Anni. The Nails was soft'ish at HVS so you shouldn't have a problem and Welcome To Hard Times is a good 'un too. The one I remember being most difficult is the HVS finger crack next to Bicycle...
In reply to Sarah_Clough:
Definately. Ive arranged to climb with people on here and would be very upset to find the person who leads 'VS' had only actually led one and couldnt follow me up routes/retrieve gear.
I rekon its also disrespectful to other people who actually do have the skill/fitness levels to achive high climbing standards. It devalues their achievements. It also makes you look like a complete tit when people find out you didnt really solo that hard route you claimed you did. Why should they trust you with their lives when climbing when they cant even trust you to tell the truth about your experiences?
Definately. Ive arranged to climb with people on here and would be very upset to find the person who leads 'VS' had only actually led one and couldnt follow me up routes/retrieve gear.
I rekon its also disrespectful to other people who actually do have the skill/fitness levels to achive high climbing standards. It devalues their achievements. It also makes you look like a complete tit when people find out you didnt really solo that hard route you claimed you did. Why should they trust you with their lives when climbing when they cant even trust you to tell the truth about your experiences?
In reply to Derbyshire Ben:
What about the move with the peg at the top of The Nails? Or is it ovverrated as a hard move? Or is it only ok if youre 6ft? :oP
Ive seconded welcome to hard times before and enjoyed it immensely hence wanting to go back and lead it. Ive left BRM for an unworked ascent on purpose. Will bear in ming the beta for the HVS crack, though Im a little sadistic and tend to like things like that
What about the move with the peg at the top of The Nails? Or is it ovverrated as a hard move? Or is it only ok if youre 6ft? :oP
Ive seconded welcome to hard times before and enjoyed it immensely hence wanting to go back and lead it. Ive left BRM for an unworked ascent on purpose. Will bear in ming the beta for the HVS crack, though Im a little sadistic and tend to like things like that
In reply to Anni:
Apologies - I guess my assumption came from the fact that I can't jam to save my life. Well, not up to grit HVS standard anyway Go on, you must have a weakness though...apart from being too bold (and that's like a job interview admission of a weakness which isn't - if you see what I mean)..
Apologies - I guess my assumption came from the fact that I can't jam to save my life. Well, not up to grit HVS standard anyway Go on, you must have a weakness though...apart from being too bold (and that's like a job interview admission of a weakness which isn't - if you see what I mean)..
In reply to Serpico:
q1. = 0
q2. = 2
q3.= as q.2
> (In reply to Bingly Bong)Perhaps it would be better for prospective partners if they could see on your profile:
> How many partners you've killed.
> How many you've merely hospitalised
> And how many were able to make it back to the car with some assistance.
> That should make for a more informed choice.
> How many partners you've killed.
> How many you've merely hospitalised
> And how many were able to make it back to the car with some assistance.
> That should make for a more informed choice.
q1. = 0
q2. = 2
q3.= as q.2
In reply to Anni:
>Or is it only ok if youre 6ft?
I don't remember anything particularly challenging and I'm 5'8, but I do have a patchy memory at times so don't blame me if it all goes t*ts up!
>Or is it only ok if youre 6ft?
I don't remember anything particularly challenging and I'm 5'8, but I do have a patchy memory at times so don't blame me if it all goes t*ts up!
In reply to Sarah_Clough:
Oh I don't know, the ethics of climbing include being able to tell a good tale, sandbag etc The only person you need to be totally honest with is yourself, and then not always A bit of unwarranted self-belief does wonders on occasion!
It's not a sport and try telling JCM it's not a competitive sport at that....
> If you lie about grades though, it goes against the whole ethics of climbing.
Oh I don't know, the ethics of climbing include being able to tell a good tale, sandbag etc The only person you need to be totally honest with is yourself, and then not always A bit of unwarranted self-belief does wonders on occasion!
> It's an honestly sport, and not a competition.
It's not a sport and try telling JCM it's not a competitive sport at that....
In reply to JonC:
I have no fear. Thats my problem. Its dangerous. Luckily I have some common sense (well, a little). Oh, that and Im far too lazy and have a huge weakness for cakes
Oh yeah, and ummm...Im a punter? Quite happy with it too!
I have no fear. Thats my problem. Its dangerous. Luckily I have some common sense (well, a little). Oh, that and Im far too lazy and have a huge weakness for cakes
Oh yeah, and ummm...Im a punter? Quite happy with it too!
In reply to Derbyshire Ben:
that's a surprise - for some reason I always thought you were really tall. How odd these text-based misconceptions are.
that's a surprise - for some reason I always thought you were really tall. How odd these text-based misconceptions are.
In reply to Anni:
this thing about having no fear - have you fallen much? I'm always scared of falling, and haven't (yet) but I was wondering if you had and knew that gear had held and were thus not scared...
> (In reply to JonC)
>
> I have no fear. Thats my problem. Its dangerous.
>
> I have no fear. Thats my problem. Its dangerous.
this thing about having no fear - have you fallen much? I'm always scared of falling, and haven't (yet) but I was wondering if you had and knew that gear had held and were thus not scared...
In reply to JonC:
Ill agree theres nothing wrong with embellishing, we all do it, and th banter is fun! Its when its a case of someone who really isnt (and I mean way off by *several* grades) capable of what they claim to be. Blatent and obvious lies are just annoying...
Ill agree theres nothing wrong with embellishing, we all do it, and th banter is fun! Its when its a case of someone who really isnt (and I mean way off by *several* grades) capable of what they claim to be. Blatent and obvious lies are just annoying...
In reply to CJD:
The first fall I took was one I jumped off before I came off awkwardly. I trusted the gear (well, actually didnt think about it much :oS) and had a nice swooshy bouncy fall. I actually like falling unfortinately in most cases! Im not keen if theres a ledge or Im going to get too scraped up but otherwise Im quite happy with it.
I was scared of falling after my back injury but having taken a fall recently Im back to not being bothered. Also especially as Im more confident in my gear placements jhaving learned how to do it well from Fiend
The first fall I took was one I jumped off before I came off awkwardly. I trusted the gear (well, actually didnt think about it much :oS) and had a nice swooshy bouncy fall. I actually like falling unfortinately in most cases! Im not keen if theres a ledge or Im going to get too scraped up but otherwise Im quite happy with it.
I was scared of falling after my back injury but having taken a fall recently Im back to not being bothered. Also especially as Im more confident in my gear placements jhaving learned how to do it well from Fiend
In reply to Anni:
hmm, think there might be something to be said for falling... or perhaps just not being so worried about it that it stops any sort of calculated risktaking...
hmm, think there might be something to be said for falling... or perhaps just not being so worried about it that it stops any sort of calculated risktaking...
In reply to Anni:
Ooh, take me jamming with you!! You lead, I'll second. :0)
> Apparently I was 'born to jam' after a friend took me to Almscliffe for the first time. Ive jammed on HVS instead of mantled (Demon wall) so ummm...yeah, I can jam. In fact one of my projects for this year is embankment 4 at Millstone for the sole reason its a jamming crack and after an initiatioon to jam cracks in the states...? So nuuur :oP
Ooh, take me jamming with you!! You lead, I'll second. :0)
In reply to Anni:
Having no fear is a hell of a weakness in a climber...oh yes...
Like when you're up for a tech job and admit, under pressure mind, that you are "too much of a detail person".
Only joking. I know, I suffer from it too. Sometimes I only take 12 QD's with me to Birchen. That way I can really practice running it out.
Having no fear is a hell of a weakness in a climber...oh yes...
Like when you're up for a tech job and admit, under pressure mind, that you are "too much of a detail person".
Only joking. I know, I suffer from it too. Sometimes I only take 12 QD's with me to Birchen. That way I can really practice running it out.
In reply to Anni:
Exactly, well put. Especially the 'tit' bit
> Definately. Ive arranged to climb with people on here and would be very upset to find the person who leads 'VS' had only actually led one and couldnt follow me up routes/retrieve gear.
>
> I rekon its also disrespectful to other people who actually do have the skill/fitness levels to achive high climbing standards. It devalues their achievements. It also makes you look like a complete tit when people find out you didnt really solo that hard route you claimed you did. Why should they trust you with their lives when climbing when they cant even trust you to tell the truth about your experiences?
>
> I rekon its also disrespectful to other people who actually do have the skill/fitness levels to achive high climbing standards. It devalues their achievements. It also makes you look like a complete tit when people find out you didnt really solo that hard route you claimed you did. Why should they trust you with their lives when climbing when they cant even trust you to tell the truth about your experiences?
Exactly, well put. Especially the 'tit' bit
In reply to CJD:
Practice indoors on an overhang. Climb above a bolt a few feet and let go.
Give your belayer a second's notice, mind.
Repeat. Then increase height of fall (carefully calculating that you are high enough above the ground not to crater); and try on non-overhanging bits.
G
Practice indoors on an overhang. Climb above a bolt a few feet and let go.
Give your belayer a second's notice, mind.
Repeat. Then increase height of fall (carefully calculating that you are high enough above the ground not to crater); and try on non-overhanging bits.
G
In reply to CJD:
If you look carefull at my photo gallery you can actually see I'm a height-impaired, hirsute, thick-legged & stocky Northern monkey man rather than the graceful lean rock athlete of your creative imagination.
If you look carefull at my photo gallery you can actually see I'm a height-impaired, hirsute, thick-legged & stocky Northern monkey man rather than the graceful lean rock athlete of your creative imagination.
In reply to Graham: you shouldn't need to give your belayer a moments notice. They should always be paying attention.
In reply to Graham:
yeah, I know the theory, it's just the practice thing. I used to love indoor overhangs and now they terrify me. Had problems at leeds last week with it and got a bit emotional about the whole affair.
maybe it's just 'cos I'm piss weak?
who can say...
yeah, I know the theory, it's just the practice thing. I used to love indoor overhangs and now they terrify me. Had problems at leeds last week with it and got a bit emotional about the whole affair.
maybe it's just 'cos I'm piss weak?
who can say...
In reply to Sarah_Clough:
Youre on. Do you want painful fingerlocks, fist jams or whole arms? Im down in Bristol 24th ish if youre about we can play at doing it on limestone...
If you want whole body stuff youre sorted with Helen at the weekend! :oD
Youre on. Do you want painful fingerlocks, fist jams or whole arms? Im down in Bristol 24th ish if youre about we can play at doing it on limestone...
If you want whole body stuff youre sorted with Helen at the weekend! :oD
In reply to Jon Greengrass:
Granted. However they are likely to be anticipating a fall if they can see you are having a 'mare, whereas jumping off like a loon might take them back a tad.
G
> (In reply to Graham) you shouldn't need to give your belayer a moments notice. They should always be paying attention.
Granted. However they are likely to be anticipating a fall if they can see you are having a 'mare, whereas jumping off like a loon might take them back a tad.
G
In reply to Anni:
A bit of all is good
Is that the date you arranged with Ben? Cheeky sod, he's meant to be seeing me that weekend!!
Maybe we can all play together.
A bit of all is good
Is that the date you arranged with Ben? Cheeky sod, he's meant to be seeing me that weekend!!
Maybe we can all play together.
In reply to JonC:
Pah! Gear is for sissy's! (look at photo of me from Birchen...) Im working on placing more...honest!
Its actually a real problem and how I end up doing things like breaking my back. Im just *not* scared! And sometimes my common sense gets switched off :oS
Pah! Gear is for sissy's! (look at photo of me from Birchen...) Im working on placing more...honest!
Its actually a real problem and how I end up doing things like breaking my back. Im just *not* scared! And sometimes my common sense gets switched off :oS
In reply to Graham: aye but it keeps them on their toes. literally..
In reply to Graham:
surprise is my greatest weapon!
> (In reply to Jon Greengrass)
> [...]
>
> Granted. However they are likely to be anticipating a fall if they can see you are having a 'mare, whereas jumping off like a loon might take them back a tad.
>
> G
> [...]
>
> Granted. However they are likely to be anticipating a fall if they can see you are having a 'mare, whereas jumping off like a loon might take them back a tad.
>
> G
surprise is my greatest weapon!
In reply to Sarah_Clough:
He said he was busy weekend of the 17th? Has he got dates wrong? Be very cool to climb all together though
He said he was busy weekend of the 17th? Has he got dates wrong? Be very cool to climb all together though
In reply to Anni:
Pretty sure he's busy then too (I'm in Sardinia, but can't remember what he's doing)
I'm happy with a threesome if Ben is
Pretty sure he's busy then too (I'm in Sardinia, but can't remember what he's doing)
I'm happy with a threesome if Ben is
In reply to Jon Greengrass:
Ahem!
> (In reply to Graham) you shouldn't need to give your belayer a moments notice. They should always be paying attention.
Ahem!
In reply to Craig_M: oh i forgot to add. Give out a bit of slack to soften the impact of their lardy arse on the rope.
In reply to Jon Greengrass:
Craig doesn't have an arse, or a chest for that matter, his legs and arms sprout from the base of his skull.
G
Craig doesn't have an arse, or a chest for that matter, his legs and arms sprout from the base of his skull.
G
In reply to Graham: oh dear, was the impact that severe?
In reply to Bingly Bong: Nice to see the same topics doing the rounds...
I have to admit that I always think that you can make a pretty good estimate of how well someone climbs from consdiering everything on their profile. The combination of trad/sport/bouldering grades along with favourite routes and ticklist will give a reasonable all round picture.
In my case the profile grades are pretty spot on. I onsighted E3 (The Ghost) at the weekend. In that case I was actually perfectly happy to be climbing pretty scary, full-on multi-pitch routes with a Rocktalker I'd never met or climbed with before.
You soon get the measure of someone and as has been said their really isn't that much that can go wrong assuming they can actually belay.
I have to admit that I always think that you can make a pretty good estimate of how well someone climbs from consdiering everything on their profile. The combination of trad/sport/bouldering grades along with favourite routes and ticklist will give a reasonable all round picture.
In my case the profile grades are pretty spot on. I onsighted E3 (The Ghost) at the weekend. In that case I was actually perfectly happy to be climbing pretty scary, full-on multi-pitch routes with a Rocktalker I'd never met or climbed with before.
You soon get the measure of someone and as has been said their really isn't that much that can go wrong assuming they can actually belay.
In reply to Serpico:
That would be a bad idea - then I probably wouldn't have got any of my last 5 partners off Ukc... (worrying Alps trip a couple of years back - physically and/or mentally broke three partners in a week!)
I hasten to add all my Ukc climbing partners are still alive, uninjured, and a few have condemned me as being a nice bloke and reasonably competent
> (In reply to Bingly Bong)Perhaps it would be better for prospective partners if they could see on your profile:
> How many partners you've killed.
> How many you've merely hospitalised
> And how many were able to make it back to the car with some assistance.
> That should make for a more informed choice.
> How many partners you've killed.
> How many you've merely hospitalised
> And how many were able to make it back to the car with some assistance.
> That should make for a more informed choice.
That would be a bad idea - then I probably wouldn't have got any of my last 5 partners off Ukc... (worrying Alps trip a couple of years back - physically and/or mentally broke three partners in a week!)
I hasten to add all my Ukc climbing partners are still alive, uninjured, and a few have condemned me as being a nice bloke and reasonably competent
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