UKC

well, how hard is it ?

In reply to knee down boy: In relation to what? Boiling an egg, wrestling with a crocodile?

In reply to Mike H:
no, in relation to "normal climbing" ~ not many normal (that word again)leaders seem to understand the "V" grades.
I thought V5 would be OK at about 6a/b but it's all a little odd.
Not equiv to E grades.
I personally am finding V5 well hard! when I thought I was going OK!

In reply to Anonymous:

The technical grades which people use when bullshitting about bouldering would have any on-sight leader phoning his solicitor. V5 = 'proper' 6b at least, ie 6c. If you ask me.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Harder than boiling an egg then.

In reply to knee down boy:

It's harder than getting your knee down! That took me a KR1-S, and a few days spent at a roundabout - after a while we were doing it one-handed for pics!

I've heard of a certain renowned grit climber who's put up many E7's failing on a V4 at Earl Crag. V5 can be very hard indeed.

In reply to knee down boy: Quite tricky, good solid 6b, and in some cases 6c. All good fun though.

In reply to Anonymous:
As most people have said its around 6b. It may have a sequence with some sustained 5c-6a+ or be a couple of moves (5c/6a) followed by 'easy' 6b or a single hard 6b move. Check out the bouldering benchmarks thread a while back for some ideas. I suggested yule log RH arete (caley), pebble wall (almscliff) and start of wall of horrors (almscliff) as V5 benchmarks. But on the description I've just posted the last of these may only be V4.

As for comparing to routes (I don't climb this hard (properly)-so basing on tables/what i've heard) V5 would be about french 7b, safe E5 6b or death potential E7 6b. Anyone disagree? (ie:are the grade tables wrong?)

In reply to Matt:
Err, I'd say that they're simply not comparable.

In reply to Matt: where would V5 be on the scale of hardess where talc is the softest and diamond is the hardest?

In reply to daveP:

as soft as a vinyl 12"

In reply to Matt:
There is little comparrison to routes - remember 'route' 6b isn't as hard as 'bouldering' 6b!

V5 is more like a route 6c(+)

JIMBO

In reply to knee down boy: Ok I really primed this thread for stupid replies didn't I

I'm with the majority on this one, V5 is going some in relation to normal climbing. I think I've only ever done a couple of V5's and had to work them over a number of days.

In relation to Moh's hardness scale I would rate it around Calcite / Flurospar - how that for ya?

In reply to Matt:
Start of Wall of horrors, I would say highball V4. I found Pommel(Brimham)hard at V5 took me ages to get it.

In reply to JIMBO: thats not how it should be, 6b should be 6b if its on a route or a boulder.

In reply to FH:

Is this one of those things that if you can see how to do the moves then it is down to actually doing them? I found the start of WOH reasonable whereas all the problems now graded V5 I could never touch. Is there a large gap between these grades?

Bob

In reply to FH:
That's 'cos you're a punter and forgot to use the cunning technique!

In reply to Bob:

Whats odd is that in Yorks Grit guide WOH gets a tech' grade of 6a but in YGB it gets 6b.
I started ticking afresh when YGB came out, so it was about 10yrs previously that I'd last done it and was impressed with my ageing carcus to get it second go last October. But I think V4 is nearer the mark.

In reply to Andy Robinson:

The only cunning technique I have is Raw Power!
Your is a leg up from jon.

In reply to knee down boy:
Take a standard 15 foot high V5. Do climbing of this difficulty for say 75 feet (thats 5 times as much) and you've probably got Fr 8a or E8 6C.

In reply to Billy the Kid: I assume that the E8 6c is on gear, not a direct conversion from sport to trad then?

In reply to Andy Robinson:
I'm obviously only baseing this on grit where alot of the routes are pretty short. Eg: big greeny V3 boulder problem above gear at the top. Adreneline rush V4 above gear with ground hitting potential. Fair enough anything that is too sustained would be difficult to compare. It was only meant as an indication anyway. You can give a v grade to most sequences but if there are multiple crux sequences or the sequence is too long then it has no relevance.

In reply to Bob:
V5 is where problems become 'very hard' and 'very large bellies' and 'very old age' start to affect the ability to ascend such problems

In reply to Matt:

I'll remember that

Bob

In reply to Matt:

>V5 would be about ........... death potential E7 6b. Anyone disagree? (ie:are the grade tables wrong?)<

Yes!! The crux of Obsession Fatale is not (necessarily) death, it's certainly not as hard as V5, and the route is solid E8. A V5 crux in a genuine death position would certainly be harder than E7 - I suspect, for example, that even Indian Face probably doesn't have anything harder than V5 as a boulder problem.

To the chap who said that bouldering 6b is not route 6b - correct! To the chap who said that they're SUPPOSED to be the same - sort of correct. I was brought up to believe that route grades (speaking trad here) grade the move to how it feels for a climber approaching from below on the lead. In my book this takes into account stuff like whether there is a particularly awkward placement just below, whether you can rest and think about it or whether you have to go straight on to the move, and so on. Others disagree. What the route technical grade certainly takes into account, though, is the fact that you're coming up from below and you can't necessarily see the holds until halfway through the sequence. Bouldering, of course, you can stand up and look to see where the holds are and perhaps even which the best bit is before you start. So route grades OUGHT (sometimes, at any rate) to be physically easier if you happen to hit the sequence just right.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:


Not been toproping, John, surely?

V5 is piss...

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Certainly not. My friend led it. He can't do V5, so I worked it out.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

>Indian face is Fr7a+ on toprope so no way does it have anything approaching V5

In reply to knee down boy:

I bet indian face feels solid v5 on the sharp end though!

In reply to Billy the Kid:
I thought it was E9 6c. If its genuine 6c then it must be at least V5/V6. In fact i can't think of any boulder problems with a single 6c move that are V5 or lower? Is there?

In reply to Matt: Ther are some V5's at Brimahm that get 6c. Don't know how hard they are really.

In reply to Graeme:
According to the boulder guide the hardest move at brimham to get V5 is 6b+. Yes i am sad and just skimmed the chapter as it was next to me. Any other offers?

In reply to brendonTendon:
nice one brendon, you seem to understand the question at least, take an NC30 (possibly the finest machine for thrashing) or a FZR400 and a good round about and sorted. How about wheelies? I reckon at least V3 (but nothing like as tricky as cheese on toast @ Pete's!!!).

Now we've established how hard V5 is !!!

Just to throw a spanner in the works, how hard is V13 ?

In reply to Anonymous:

Engish tech
V5 can be 6a, 6b or 6c: lots of 6a, or a bit of 6b, or just a tiny bit of 6c.

English E
V5 - comparable to a trad E4/E5/E6 condensed, at tops like a bolted 7b/+: or YDS 5.12c-ish.

Mick R

In reply to Billy the Kid:

>Indian face is Fr7a+ on toprope<

Bollocks. You must be thinking of a different route. 7b+ according to Gresham and Dixon.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
No I'm not. Everything is 7a+ on a top rope and no boulder problem is ever harder than V6.

In reply to Matt:

It doesn't quite work like that. Indian face is very bold hence the grade. There are no 6C moves on it.

In reply to Billy the Kid:

Indian Face is just a highball V4 - a few mats and a couple of good spotters and you'd be fine. maybe.

In reply to Billy the Kid:

I know it gets E9 as its bold, obviously. I was under the impression that it was also 6c, if it is then it must be at least V5. If it isn't then it shouldn't be graded 6c? Or are we back to route 6c?

In reply to Matt:

It looks like we're finally getting it...

JIMBO

In reply to Matt:
Read the section under graded lists in Rockfax referencing bold routes.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

"Certainly not. My friend led it. He can't do V5, so I worked it out."

John I now know the story...

John "the Mile End weakling" who has wickedly strong fingers and on vertical crimpy stuff ,with his ultra reach, can climb well 'ard - certainly V8.

Jeez where is this post going?

Ahh... bouldering grades are all bollox and depending on your preffered style/ strengths you find things easy/ hard...

So whilst UK/ US bouldering ace Wills Young finds Westside Story nails (hard Font 7c) I am hoping it is going to suit me...

Livi' in a f*cking dreamland...

In reply to Billy the Kid:
I have, and as i said before i do know why it gets E9. But my point is - if it is 6c then according to the same tables (boulder grades) it would get a minimum v grade of V6. I can't think of any 6c boulder problems that get V5 can anyone name any? If it is not 6c then fair enough, but i thought a few people have now done it and if it wasn't then someone would downgrade it (as seems popular these days). Alternatively the bouldering grade table is wrong?

In reply to Billy the Kid: surely what you mean is that EVERY boulder problem is V6...

what grade's that?...V6
what grade's that?...V6
what grade's that?...V6

see, it works...

In reply to Matt:
From the Rockfax site:
'BOLD ROUTES - A route where there is a possibility of a dangerous fall will have a much higher E grade than the actual technical difficulties on the route would merit. For example the route Indian Face is graded E9 6c yet it is about 7b+ on a top-rope, which doesn't fit into the table above very well. However a fall from the Indian Face would be fatal which is where the E9 comes from.'

Hope this clears it up!

In reply to Billy the Kid:
It would if it had anything to do with the question i was asking (have you been reading my posts - pointless as they are?). The description above says indian face gets a higher E grade than the tech difficulties merit. It does NOT say anywhere that because its bold the english TECH GRADE has been elevated as well.

So my point was and only ever has been that the only way that indian face has no V5 sequence on it - is either that it is only 6b or if the boulder grade table on this site is wrong. What follows is what the table says-

From the bloke who writes rockfax guides:
Engish tech
V5 can be 6a, 6b or 6c: lots of 6a, or a bit of 6b, or just a tiny bit of 6c.

English E
V5 - comparable to a trad E4/E5/E6 condensed, at tops like a bolted 7b/+: or YDS 5.12c-ish.

From the boulder grade table:
6c has to be V6 minimum. 7b+ sport (traverse) grade = V6

So I don't need to be convinced either way, so only reply needed is-
1)Indian face is only equilivant to bouldering tech 6b
2)The (recently amended?) boulder grade table on this site is wrong (ie: eng 6c can get V4).
3)Indian face has V5 on it.
Oh, and i seem to have missed pedantic and argumentative off my profile description

In reply to knee down boy:
Quite hard, certainly, but as always, a question of technique. With sufficient spread of the thighs, the knee can be brought down into a sufficient position of strength, then moving the joint through a non-spherical arc ( clearly ) , V5 becomes V4 , likewise V8 to V7 in a similar, manner, etc , assuming the technique is not already practised .

In reply to Matt:

Actually I originally said I doubted whether IF had anything harder than V5. I'm quite sure it's equivalent to doing quite a few V5s in a row, and as someone so rightly said, I bet it feels solid V5 to onsight on the lead. Probably wasn't actually a very helpful comparison.

In reply to Dr Roy Harper:
Surely an arc is a segment of a circle. Unless it's a wavy line.

(I hope I'm not about to be hit with 2nd order differentials again...)

In reply to knee down boy:
Well I would say that its easier to climb V5 than it is to get people to agree on how hard it is

In reply to knee down boy:

Harder than V4 and easier tha V6