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I'm off to Font again on Friday for the long weekend, hooray!
Unfortunately I'll not be doing much climbing, as I still have some impressive neck and head lumps and painful joints from this 'mystery' illness I picked up from a tick bite on my last visit.
Anyway, what I'm after is some advice on how best to brave/defeat/kill/avoid those ticks again. Not serious, as I do know how to google, but along the lines of what an American colleague advised me: "Tuck your pants into your socks". I wasn't even wearing my apple catchers that day...
Unfortunately I'll not be doing much climbing, as I still have some impressive neck and head lumps and painful joints from this 'mystery' illness I picked up from a tick bite on my last visit.
Anyway, what I'm after is some advice on how best to brave/defeat/kill/avoid those ticks again. Not serious, as I do know how to google, but along the lines of what an American colleague advised me: "Tuck your pants into your socks". I wasn't even wearing my apple catchers that day...
In reply to hutchm:
Oh yes. I'm onto my second set of blood tests as the first ones didn't show any viral hepatitis or Lyme disease. But all my earlier and current symptoms support the latter. And the symptoms merrily recurred after a 2 week stint of antibiotics, so believe me, that's all as in hand as it can be.
I'm just after some light-hearted relief and banter.
Oh yes. I'm onto my second set of blood tests as the first ones didn't show any viral hepatitis or Lyme disease. But all my earlier and current symptoms support the latter. And the symptoms merrily recurred after a 2 week stint of antibiotics, so believe me, that's all as in hand as it can be.
I'm just after some light-hearted relief and banter.
In reply to JayH: Stay away from long grass and low hanging branches and climb early in the morning, ticks move very slowly when cold. Do tick checks every night before you go to bed, the tick has to be inbeded for 24hours or longer for the saliva to have any effect on your body. Nake sure you don't break off the head because the saliva will still be produced and will be a bugger to get out.
In reply to JayH:
i've got some good advice: keep away from any sort of landscape feature that attracts deer, because you get higher tick densities in such places.
you know, things that provide shelter, like boulders.
i've got some good advice: keep away from any sort of landscape feature that attracts deer, because you get higher tick densities in such places.
you know, things that provide shelter, like boulders.
In reply to JayH:
My g/f picked up a couple of ticks (or rather they hitched a ride on her) on the Etive Slabs. Managed to get them out using alocohol soaked swabs etc. Little buggers. And she deliberately wore leggings etc.
Some guys from Keswick on a stag weekend followed us up the slabs in shorts etc. If anyone deserved to get ticks, they did. However, they were so alcohol soaked themselves that I suspect the ticks just turned tail. How about that as a strategy? Pickle yourself in alcohol while you are there?
My g/f picked up a couple of ticks (or rather they hitched a ride on her) on the Etive Slabs. Managed to get them out using alocohol soaked swabs etc. Little buggers. And she deliberately wore leggings etc.
Some guys from Keswick on a stag weekend followed us up the slabs in shorts etc. If anyone deserved to get ticks, they did. However, they were so alcohol soaked themselves that I suspect the ticks just turned tail. How about that as a strategy? Pickle yourself in alcohol while you are there?
In reply to JayH: How about a romper suit....or maybe a spiderman costume...pretty apt
In reply to JonC:
etive slabs are a bastard for ticks. using alcohol is apparently a bad idea though (NB source: random RT punter) because it encourages them to throw up their stomach contents which increases the risk of disease transmission.
etive slabs are a bastard for ticks. using alcohol is apparently a bad idea though (NB source: random RT punter) because it encourages them to throw up their stomach contents which increases the risk of disease transmission.
In reply to hutchm:
No, not at all! Speak what you think. I actually do appreciate any advice, and I appreciate your concern.
> I'll shut up then
No, not at all! Speak what you think. I actually do appreciate any advice, and I appreciate your concern.
In reply to JJJJ:
Hey ho. Well it worked and they did wriggle out backwards. What are you supposed to do instead? Does bad language work...?
Hey ho. Well it worked and they did wriggle out backwards. What are you supposed to do instead? Does bad language work...?
In reply to all:
So, so far I need to keep away from boulders and bushes, so should stay in the campsite. I should also grease myself in vaseline, slither into my Spiderman suit and the jury's out on whether I should douse myself in alcohol or not.
... do you think I'll still get a tan?
So, so far I need to keep away from boulders and bushes, so should stay in the campsite. I should also grease myself in vaseline, slither into my Spiderman suit and the jury's out on whether I should douse myself in alcohol or not.
... do you think I'll still get a tan?
In reply to JonC:
speak sweetly to him, tempt him out with a dish of tripe, suggest a roll in the hay with this cute tickchick you have lined up for him?
if none of that works i believe the best advice is to simply pull them out with a slight clockwise twist. special tick tweezers can be purchased and are very good.
speak sweetly to him, tempt him out with a dish of tripe, suggest a roll in the hay with this cute tickchick you have lined up for him?
if none of that works i believe the best advice is to simply pull them out with a slight clockwise twist. special tick tweezers can be purchased and are very good.
In reply to JayH:
wait. campsite is a bad idea: tick-infested for sure. and tanning attracts ticks (them smell warm skin and can see brown better than white). have you looked at flights to antartica?
wait. campsite is a bad idea: tick-infested for sure. and tanning attracts ticks (them smell warm skin and can see brown better than white). have you looked at flights to antartica?
In reply to steev:
Lol!! Visions of me with a mini-flamethrower (souped-up Zippo) growling "Take that, ya bazza"
Lol!! Visions of me with a mini-flamethrower (souped-up Zippo) growling "Take that, ya bazza"
In reply to JJJJ:
! Oh hang on, you mentioned brown and white skin. Well, that's a relief, cos being an authentic Glaswegian, my skin is pale blue. Phew.
! Oh hang on, you mentioned brown and white skin. Well, that's a relief, cos being an authentic Glaswegian, my skin is pale blue. Phew.
In reply to JayH:
blue? that's a worry. male ticks use blue lights to attract females. frustrated females become very hungry and nippy. have you considered wearing a white wet suit for the week?
blue? that's a worry. male ticks use blue lights to attract females. frustrated females become very hungry and nippy. have you considered wearing a white wet suit for the week?
In reply to JJJJ:
Along with vaseline and alcohol? In temperatures of 33 deg C? And me being a wee chubster? Can you imagine the smell, man?!
Along with vaseline and alcohol? In temperatures of 33 deg C? And me being a wee chubster? Can you imagine the smell, man?!
In reply to JonC: lighter or matches work witha pair of pliers
In reply to JayH: I found a tick stuck in me leg all day on Monday whilst i was at work (with no tweezers), presumably from climbing on Saturday, so am a bit worried about this idea that it's bad to leave them in more than 24hrs!
Having scarred myself last year trying to hack the mouth parts out of my foot when one got stuck last year, this time i squirted it with insect repellant and then (very quickly) plucked it out with tweezers. Frankly, what with it having been stuck in my leg all day, if it hadn't been sick by then it wasn't going to be!
On a slightly more helpful note, insect repellant should dissuade them a bit, i've been told (but forgot to do put any on on Saturday!)
Hope you're feeling better soon anyway!
Having scarred myself last year trying to hack the mouth parts out of my foot when one got stuck last year, this time i squirted it with insect repellant and then (very quickly) plucked it out with tweezers. Frankly, what with it having been stuck in my leg all day, if it hadn't been sick by then it wasn't going to be!
On a slightly more helpful note, insect repellant should dissuade them a bit, i've been told (but forgot to do put any on on Saturday!)
Hope you're feeling better soon anyway!
In reply to JayH: Have you got blood in your pee yet, that is a nasty little tick disease,make sure you get all the tests. Vaseline is a turn off for ticks, as previously mentioned, or rub yourself with a strong insect repellent, pref one with pymethrin* in it (*spelling?).
In reply to JayH:
Vets sell useful little things called Tick Hooks. Looks like a question mark or a sickle, with a little slit in the top of the hook. You slide the tick onto the hook so that its bitey bits are caught in the slit, and then turn the hook slowly. Bingo the whole lot gets wrapped up tight and out it comes. They come in two sizes (in one packet). Bright green plastic. Called "O Tom". About £3.50 the pair.
Not that I'm calling you a dog, or anything.
Vets sell useful little things called Tick Hooks. Looks like a question mark or a sickle, with a little slit in the top of the hook. You slide the tick onto the hook so that its bitey bits are caught in the slit, and then turn the hook slowly. Bingo the whole lot gets wrapped up tight and out it comes. They come in two sizes (in one packet). Bright green plastic. Called "O Tom". About £3.50 the pair.
Not that I'm calling you a dog, or anything.
In reply to steev: How many can you get hold of? Can we do a deal?
In reply to fi: If you do get one you are supposed to put vaseline on it, a big blob, it suffocates them, then the tick drops off, may take 24 hours.
In reply to JayH: I'd just wear breeks, keep away from vegetation (they hang about on grass stems and stuff before jumping on you) and check your legs / arms regularly so you can just brush them off before they bite properly.
Good luck.
Good luck.
In reply to JayH:
Everyone talking about vaseline and insect repellent gives me an idea...the ultra good avon repellant stuff comes as an oil...that may be as effective?
Hope youre recovering ok now You deserve a nice holiday after that!!
Everyone talking about vaseline and insect repellent gives me an idea...the ultra good avon repellant stuff comes as an oil...that may be as effective?
Hope youre recovering ok now You deserve a nice holiday after that!!
In reply to fi:
on a vaguely serious note (apologies Jay!) - use of vaseline, alcohol or burning are not recommended as removal techinques. A friend did the latter 3 days ago and ended up with a serously swollen leg and visit to the GP as a result.
Tick tweezers (as available from vets mentioned above) are very good ...
once removed, the tick - invariably still alive - can be squeezed between finger nails until it makes a satsfying pop and its remains left on a small stone as a warning to all biting insects ...
on a vaguely serious note (apologies Jay!) - use of vaseline, alcohol or burning are not recommended as removal techinques. A friend did the latter 3 days ago and ended up with a serously swollen leg and visit to the GP as a result.
Tick tweezers (as available from vets mentioned above) are very good ...
once removed, the tick - invariably still alive - can be squeezed between finger nails until it makes a satsfying pop and its remains left on a small stone as a warning to all biting insects ...
In reply to MarkM:
No need to apologise: I think we can stand some seriousness now that we've had some fun. I'm going to pay a wee visit to the vets this afternoon to find some of these tick tweezers. I originally pointed out to my mates that I was incredibly unlucky to get bitten in the first place, and even more unlucky to catch something. And could I really be so unlucky to have the same thing happen to me again on my next visit to Font? By the way they laughed, with tears streaming down their faces, I realised that they knew how much of a Jonah I really am...
And to be serious for a tiny second myself, although conventional wisdom is that you're only at risk of catching nasties from ticks if they're attached for more than 24 hours, I've been reading articles that now suggest you can catch 'em almost immediately. Bugger.
So. Any recommendations on how to adapt a Zippo into a mini flamethrower?
No need to apologise: I think we can stand some seriousness now that we've had some fun. I'm going to pay a wee visit to the vets this afternoon to find some of these tick tweezers. I originally pointed out to my mates that I was incredibly unlucky to get bitten in the first place, and even more unlucky to catch something. And could I really be so unlucky to have the same thing happen to me again on my next visit to Font? By the way they laughed, with tears streaming down their faces, I realised that they knew how much of a Jonah I really am...
And to be serious for a tiny second myself, although conventional wisdom is that you're only at risk of catching nasties from ticks if they're attached for more than 24 hours, I've been reading articles that now suggest you can catch 'em almost immediately. Bugger.
So. Any recommendations on how to adapt a Zippo into a mini flamethrower?
In reply to JayH:
ouch!
> (In reply to MarkM)
>
I was incredibly unlucky to get bitten in the first place,
>
ouch!
In reply to JayH:
Whoever invented those tick hooks was onto a winner. They work a treat (only used them on the dog as yet), but at £3.50 for something that looks like it came out a sh1te xmas cracker? They're havin' a laugh.
These profit margins are only equalled by those plastic disc things you put round radiator piping on laminate flooring... at £8 for a pack of 4.
bloody capitalism.
Whoever invented those tick hooks was onto a winner. They work a treat (only used them on the dog as yet), but at £3.50 for something that looks like it came out a sh1te xmas cracker? They're havin' a laugh.
These profit margins are only equalled by those plastic disc things you put round radiator piping on laminate flooring... at £8 for a pack of 4.
bloody capitalism.
In reply to JayH: If you are going to the vet, buy some stuff called Frontline. It comes in a phial and you are supposed to put the whole lot on the back of your dog or cat's neck. However, if you decant it into something with a dropper and put one drop onto the tick, it will let go and die in a few seconds. Then rinse the area with water and put on antiseptic.
In reply to JayH:
My kids and I have often had ticks at Fontainebleau, I just pull them off and wash the bite with alcohol, although people say you shouldn't. They don't all give you the disease, at least we haven't had it yet, which is just as well as it can be quite serious (as you have discovered!). I saw an add in the chemist's the other day for a vaccination against the disease in question, so I'll have a look this afternoon and post the details.
You get them more after rain and by brushing through the bracken and leaves, so if you are susceptible try keeping to areas where the rocks are on open sand rather than in the areas of denser undergrowth.
My kids and I have often had ticks at Fontainebleau, I just pull them off and wash the bite with alcohol, although people say you shouldn't. They don't all give you the disease, at least we haven't had it yet, which is just as well as it can be quite serious (as you have discovered!). I saw an add in the chemist's the other day for a vaccination against the disease in question, so I'll have a look this afternoon and post the details.
You get them more after rain and by brushing through the bracken and leaves, so if you are susceptible try keeping to areas where the rocks are on open sand rather than in the areas of denser undergrowth.
In reply to JayH:
Just out of interest - how big are these ticks? Are they easily visible to the naked eye (e.g. match-head size), or are they more like fleas?
-j-
Just out of interest - how big are these ticks? Are they easily visible to the naked eye (e.g. match-head size), or are they more like fleas?
-j-
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
I've been researching Lyme quite a bit these last 6 weeks, and have read interesting stuff about the vaccine. I hear that it's been/being pulled by the manufacturers, because they say there's not enough take-up, but allegedly there are too many lawsuits pending about the vaccine resulting in permanent arthritis in American forestry workers. Again allegedly, it can cause damage in about 30% of the population who have a particular gene defect.
So I'm not saying avoid it - I'm just saying maybe do a bit of research first and see what you think? I'll be interested in what you find out and what your opinion is.
I've been researching Lyme quite a bit these last 6 weeks, and have read interesting stuff about the vaccine. I hear that it's been/being pulled by the manufacturers, because they say there's not enough take-up, but allegedly there are too many lawsuits pending about the vaccine resulting in permanent arthritis in American forestry workers. Again allegedly, it can cause damage in about 30% of the population who have a particular gene defect.
So I'm not saying avoid it - I'm just saying maybe do a bit of research first and see what you think? I'll be interested in what you find out and what your opinion is.
In reply to Jules Lewis:
They come in all kinds of sizes, depending on how old and how recently they've eaten. Gimme a sec to find a decent photo and I'll post the link
They come in all kinds of sizes, depending on how old and how recently they've eaten. Gimme a sec to find a decent photo and I'll post the link
In reply to JayH:
I'm sure if you pressurised the fuel in the zippo it would be highly effective....
I'm sure if you pressurised the fuel in the zippo it would be highly effective....
In reply to Jules Lewis:
Nice close-ups:
http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/artjun01/tick3d.html
Enlarged, but give you an idea of the size:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/4ticks_cm.htm
Nice close-ups:
http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/artjun01/tick3d.html
Enlarged, but give you an idea of the size:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/4ticks_cm.htm
In reply to JayH:
And while we're mentioning Lyme, this is the most useful site I've found on my research travels (just in case anyone does a search for Lyme and comes up with this thread)
http://www.wadhurst.demon.co.uk/lyme/
And while we're mentioning Lyme, this is the most useful site I've found on my research travels (just in case anyone does a search for Lyme and comes up with this thread)
http://www.wadhurst.demon.co.uk/lyme/
In reply to JayH:
To remove them you can put a little oil, I like to use virgin olive, around the head and mouth which starts to suffocate them. They then dettcah themselves so that they can breath.
I've used this method on a hedgehog.
To remove them you can put a little oil, I like to use virgin olive, around the head and mouth which starts to suffocate them. They then dettcah themselves so that they can breath.
I've used this method on a hedgehog.
In reply to Jules Lewis:
Thinking in terms of fruit pips: when they're small they're a bit smaller than a grape pip. As they gorge themselves on you (or the dog) they swell and grow to about the size of an 'inlated' water melon pip. They look remarkably like the latter, but in varying colours from a shiny grey, through black, to a sand colour. the legs and fangs are all up at the head end, and so when they are bloated they're not exactly mobile. Nasty things.
Thinking in terms of fruit pips: when they're small they're a bit smaller than a grape pip. As they gorge themselves on you (or the dog) they swell and grow to about the size of an 'inlated' water melon pip. They look remarkably like the latter, but in varying colours from a shiny grey, through black, to a sand colour. the legs and fangs are all up at the head end, and so when they are bloated they're not exactly mobile. Nasty things.
In reply to Jules Lewis:
Yeha for sure, my friend who lived in swaziland had one in her ear for weeks once, she didn't know it was there and was wondering why her ear was dribbling wax...i guess it must have suffocated and let go as it came out in the end...no disease there though
Yeha for sure, my friend who lived in swaziland had one in her ear for weeks once, she didn't know it was there and was wondering why her ear was dribbling wax...i guess it must have suffocated and let go as it came out in the end...no disease there though
In reply to JayH:
Since bringing my cats to live with me a few months ago (on a working farm), they've been coming home from time to time with well-attached ticks.
I've been removing them simply by grabbing the tick and unscrewing it while pulling gently. Has worked a treat so far (and that's in amongst cat fur) and the cats have shown no signs of discomfort at the process.
I suspect that cats would take a dim view of any method involving naked flames, what with them being furry and all...
Since bringing my cats to live with me a few months ago (on a working farm), they've been coming home from time to time with well-attached ticks.
I've been removing them simply by grabbing the tick and unscrewing it while pulling gently. Has worked a treat so far (and that's in amongst cat fur) and the cats have shown no signs of discomfort at the process.
I suspect that cats would take a dim view of any method involving naked flames, what with them being furry and all...
I've seen the links, but are they black and look a bit like flies the way they jump onto you? I've seen ones around the same size as the bigger ones on the links and scuffed them off me (never bitten), but always assumed it was fly things I was brushing off...maybe it was.... a very vague description I know!
In reply to dcraig:
Apparently they can be silver, grey, black or brown. Many are the size of little freckles or even smaller. They don't fly or jump, but sit on leaves waving their legs in the air, waiting on a passing host (person/animal), then they crawl to somewhere dark, warm and moist before settling in for a big meal of your blood. Hence why you should avoid brushing through undergrowth with naked skin.
Apparently they can be silver, grey, black or brown. Many are the size of little freckles or even smaller. They don't fly or jump, but sit on leaves waving their legs in the air, waiting on a passing host (person/animal), then they crawl to somewhere dark, warm and moist before settling in for a big meal of your blood. Hence why you should avoid brushing through undergrowth with naked skin.
In reply to JayH:
Or just brushing through undergrowth at all. The one time I've found a tick dining for free off my blood, it was nestled happily in behind my bollocks. This was after a day when I'd been climbing wearing long trousers and a harness with tight fitting legloops. It must have been a right determined wee bugger...
> Hence why you should avoid brushing through undergrowth with naked skin.
Or just brushing through undergrowth at all. The one time I've found a tick dining for free off my blood, it was nestled happily in behind my bollocks. This was after a day when I'd been climbing wearing long trousers and a harness with tight fitting legloops. It must have been a right determined wee bugger...
After a look, tick hooks are here :
www.petvetcare.co.uk/acatalog/Shampoos.html £3
www.petvetcare.co.uk/acatalog/Shampoos.html £3
In reply to Stuart S:
Eek! Damn my visual brain. Now I have the most awful picture embedded in my head.
;oP Kidding. How awful!
Eek! Damn my visual brain. Now I have the most awful picture embedded in my head.
;oP Kidding. How awful!
In reply to JayH:
The vaccin is called Ticovac and is made by Baxter. It is sold in my local chemist in France at 40.77€ and normally requires a presciption so that the doctor can ask you a few questions to see if you have any allergies and so on. The chemist confirmed that they would sell it without a prescription though he obviously advised seein a quack first. Once you bought it you would then have to either inject it yourself or get a nurse to do it.
A couple of links, first to the product page, in French, it may not be sold in Britain:
http://www.baxter.fr/htdocs/bioscience/produits/ticovac.html
A description in English here:
http://www.cbg-meb.nl/uk/spc/TicoVac_164_01_W04.htm
As you can see three doses are required: "The standard primary vaccination schedule consists of three doses, each of 0.5 ml intramuscularly, the second dose following 21 days to 3 months after the first dose, and the third dose 9 to 12 months after the second dose." so at 40 Euros a shot it isn't cheap! You need to start the treatment at least a couple of weeks before you go.
It's up to you to say if it's worth it as of the many people who are bitten by the little nasties only a few contract the disease. As you've had it once though....?
The vaccin is called Ticovac and is made by Baxter. It is sold in my local chemist in France at 40.77€ and normally requires a presciption so that the doctor can ask you a few questions to see if you have any allergies and so on. The chemist confirmed that they would sell it without a prescription though he obviously advised seein a quack first. Once you bought it you would then have to either inject it yourself or get a nurse to do it.
A couple of links, first to the product page, in French, it may not be sold in Britain:
http://www.baxter.fr/htdocs/bioscience/produits/ticovac.html
A description in English here:
http://www.cbg-meb.nl/uk/spc/TicoVac_164_01_W04.htm
As you can see three doses are required: "The standard primary vaccination schedule consists of three doses, each of 0.5 ml intramuscularly, the second dose following 21 days to 3 months after the first dose, and the third dose 9 to 12 months after the second dose." so at 40 Euros a shot it isn't cheap! You need to start the treatment at least a couple of weeks before you go.
It's up to you to say if it's worth it as of the many people who are bitten by the little nasties only a few contract the disease. As you've had it once though....?
In reply to Foxy:
Bloody hell, ticks are one thing but I'm amazed that you managed to get a hedgehog attached to you.
> I've used this method on a hedgehog.
Bloody hell, ticks are one thing but I'm amazed that you managed to get a hedgehog attached to you.
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
<wry grimace> ...and still have it, and am finding it difficult getting any treatment, now I've had 2 weeks of antibiotics that failed.
Thanks very much for the info on the vaccine. The cost is irrelevant, to be honest. I'm still concerned about my Jonah-ness striking again, and the therefore likelihood of being one of the few who'd react against it. But then again... I'll have a long think about it and do some reading.
Cheers, Bruce.
<wry grimace> ...and still have it, and am finding it difficult getting any treatment, now I've had 2 weeks of antibiotics that failed.
Thanks very much for the info on the vaccine. The cost is irrelevant, to be honest. I'm still concerned about my Jonah-ness striking again, and the therefore likelihood of being one of the few who'd react against it. But then again... I'll have a long think about it and do some reading.
Cheers, Bruce.
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
Ah... I found a bit that says:
"A tick-bite may also cause an infection with Borrelia bacteria. The symptomatology of this sort of infection may resemble that of tick-borne encephalitis. Neither TBE vaccines (e.g. TicoVac) nor TBE immunoglobulins, where available, protect against Borrelia infections"
Lyme is from borrelia infections.
Och well, it was interesting nonetheless.
Ah... I found a bit that says:
"A tick-bite may also cause an infection with Borrelia bacteria. The symptomatology of this sort of infection may resemble that of tick-borne encephalitis. Neither TBE vaccines (e.g. TicoVac) nor TBE immunoglobulins, where available, protect against Borrelia infections"
Lyme is from borrelia infections.
Och well, it was interesting nonetheless.
In reply to JJJJ:
I was chatting to someone recently who is doing research into ticks. Apparently, dear produce a something that causes Lymes disease to be neutralised in some way. As a result, ticks in an area populated by deer are less likely to pass on the disease than ticks found in an area predominantly occupied by sheep.
I was chatting to someone recently who is doing research into ticks. Apparently, dear produce a something that causes Lymes disease to be neutralised in some way. As a result, ticks in an area populated by deer are less likely to pass on the disease than ticks found in an area predominantly occupied by sheep.
In reply to SornaBob:
interesting, i'd not heard that before. perhaps this explains why the proportion of ticks carrying Lymes varies from place to place. Apparently in some (sheepy?) parts of the west coast of Scotland as many as one in three ticks carry it.
interesting, i'd not heard that before. perhaps this explains why the proportion of ticks carrying Lymes varies from place to place. Apparently in some (sheepy?) parts of the west coast of Scotland as many as one in three ticks carry it.
In reply to JayH:
Here are a couple of websites you might find useful.
http://www.lymediseaseaction.org.uk/
and
http://www.ilads.org/index.html
There is a patient support group which is also very good.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/eurolyme/
There is currently no vaccine for Lyme Disease. The blood tests in the UK are unreliable and GP'S and Consulants are years behind those in other countries.
Regards
John
(A Lyme Disease sufferer)
Here are a couple of websites you might find useful.
http://www.lymediseaseaction.org.uk/
and
http://www.ilads.org/index.html
There is a patient support group which is also very good.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/eurolyme/
There is currently no vaccine for Lyme Disease. The blood tests in the UK are unreliable and GP'S and Consulants are years behind those in other countries.
Regards
John
(A Lyme Disease sufferer)
In reply to JayH: I'm an entomologist who's currently working in tick central aka west coast of scotland surrounded by deer. Anyway, just been writing risk assesments on tick avoidance and lyme disease.
I've found the best way to remove small ticks (the ones I seem to get are all small larval ticks, not big enough for those vet thingys) is to use a pointy pair of tweezers. you might be able to get them from a chemist, you want ones with fine points. Pull them out by grabbing at the base. Don't do the smothering with vaseline, burning with lit fags , spraying with ethanol or insect repellent. Pull out as soon as possible and check yourself everyday.
Then, and this is quite important, I'm told by a lyme disease sufferer, is to keep the tick. If there's lots of lyme disease in the area, they can test the tick when your blood tests come up negative for borrelia but you still have symptoms (which happens all the time apparently). I'd put it in a small bottle filled with ethanol and dilute it to 70% with water.(you can get this from chemists in france, I use it for my trangia- burns much better than meths!)
Insect repellents do work for ticks, if you don't want to use DEET, Autan works well. Apply where clothing has gaps- waist, wrists, ankles. The little blighters are still really good at getting in crevices though (thanks for the hideous mental picture Stuart S!). Hope you get a diagnosis and treatment. Oh, and whatever you do, don't use any form of steroid treatment (including hydrocortisone cream) whilst you have lyme-type symptoms.
I've found the best way to remove small ticks (the ones I seem to get are all small larval ticks, not big enough for those vet thingys) is to use a pointy pair of tweezers. you might be able to get them from a chemist, you want ones with fine points. Pull them out by grabbing at the base. Don't do the smothering with vaseline, burning with lit fags , spraying with ethanol or insect repellent. Pull out as soon as possible and check yourself everyday.
Then, and this is quite important, I'm told by a lyme disease sufferer, is to keep the tick. If there's lots of lyme disease in the area, they can test the tick when your blood tests come up negative for borrelia but you still have symptoms (which happens all the time apparently). I'd put it in a small bottle filled with ethanol and dilute it to 70% with water.(you can get this from chemists in france, I use it for my trangia- burns much better than meths!)
Insect repellents do work for ticks, if you don't want to use DEET, Autan works well. Apply where clothing has gaps- waist, wrists, ankles. The little blighters are still really good at getting in crevices though (thanks for the hideous mental picture Stuart S!). Hope you get a diagnosis and treatment. Oh, and whatever you do, don't use any form of steroid treatment (including hydrocortisone cream) whilst you have lyme-type symptoms.
In reply to JayH: Damn. Does this mean I have to repack? Shorts out-longs in?
In reply to JayH:
i was abit concerned that i had been bitten by a tick a few years ago in the churnet valley, i didn't actually see a tick but something had bitten me on the ankle and i developed a bulls-eye type rash...
i went to a&e and they sent me away with some antibiotics, i since haven't developed any other definate symptoms...i.e. arthritic, nervous system, cardiac, etc
was wondering if you (jayh) had developed any of these other symptoms?
bw, paul
i was abit concerned that i had been bitten by a tick a few years ago in the churnet valley, i didn't actually see a tick but something had bitten me on the ankle and i developed a bulls-eye type rash...
i went to a&e and they sent me away with some antibiotics, i since haven't developed any other definate symptoms...i.e. arthritic, nervous system, cardiac, etc
was wondering if you (jayh) had developed any of these other symptoms?
bw, paul
In reply to paul hesketh:
Yes, in spades - at one point my bf phoned NHS Direct to see if he should drive me to the hozzie, as he was concerned that I'd meningitis.
My initial stuff, 3 weeks after getting bitten: unrelenting nausea, severe headache (smacked on the head with a cricket bat kind of pain), painful eyes (they hurt to move, so I couldn't read, eg), stiff and sore neck/back/right shoulder muscles, stiff and sore joints (neck, elbows, knees, wrists, one ankle), dizziness, general feeling of Ohmigod I'm going to die.
That lasted a full weekend, then I had a week of feeling not too bad during the day (just joint pains) but relapsing at night. I thought it was flu, but why did it get better then worse, and I'd no stuffy or runny nose? The Font guide warns people to see their doc if they get bitten by a tick to get checked for Lyme. My doc agreed it sounded like Lyme, put me on 2 weeks antibiotics while I was waiting on blood tests. Nothing really changed, except that after about 9 days I got much worse, then a bit better. After coming off the antibiotics, all my symptoms are coming back again including some new doozy ones (like 6 golfball-sized swollen glands in my neck and head...) and a racing heart. The doc is repeating the blood tests because they all came back negative.
I've been doing a spot of research on this, cos I'm a little concerned. I didn't develop the bull's eye rash, but (figures vary according to the paper) only half of the people who get Lyme disease do. If you *do* get the bull's eye rash, then you have Lyme disease. Everything I read says that the blood tests are incredibly unreliable, and that you have to diagnose Lyme on clinical symptoms (like the bull's eye rash).
But you got antibiotics straight away. From what I've read, depending on the antibiotics and how long they're taken and the person, that can be enough to cure you. So don't panic, Paul, you may well be totally clear!
From what I can gether, though, everyone's illness is different, because of the different varieties of ticks and the different effects on different people. The symptoms arrive at different times too. Bonus, eh?
Paul, you said you hadn't developed any definite symptoms - that suggests that (a) you're a wee bit worried and (b) you've got *some* symptoms. Are you ok?
Yes, in spades - at one point my bf phoned NHS Direct to see if he should drive me to the hozzie, as he was concerned that I'd meningitis.
My initial stuff, 3 weeks after getting bitten: unrelenting nausea, severe headache (smacked on the head with a cricket bat kind of pain), painful eyes (they hurt to move, so I couldn't read, eg), stiff and sore neck/back/right shoulder muscles, stiff and sore joints (neck, elbows, knees, wrists, one ankle), dizziness, general feeling of Ohmigod I'm going to die.
That lasted a full weekend, then I had a week of feeling not too bad during the day (just joint pains) but relapsing at night. I thought it was flu, but why did it get better then worse, and I'd no stuffy or runny nose? The Font guide warns people to see their doc if they get bitten by a tick to get checked for Lyme. My doc agreed it sounded like Lyme, put me on 2 weeks antibiotics while I was waiting on blood tests. Nothing really changed, except that after about 9 days I got much worse, then a bit better. After coming off the antibiotics, all my symptoms are coming back again including some new doozy ones (like 6 golfball-sized swollen glands in my neck and head...) and a racing heart. The doc is repeating the blood tests because they all came back negative.
I've been doing a spot of research on this, cos I'm a little concerned. I didn't develop the bull's eye rash, but (figures vary according to the paper) only half of the people who get Lyme disease do. If you *do* get the bull's eye rash, then you have Lyme disease. Everything I read says that the blood tests are incredibly unreliable, and that you have to diagnose Lyme on clinical symptoms (like the bull's eye rash).
But you got antibiotics straight away. From what I've read, depending on the antibiotics and how long they're taken and the person, that can be enough to cure you. So don't panic, Paul, you may well be totally clear!
From what I can gether, though, everyone's illness is different, because of the different varieties of ticks and the different effects on different people. The symptoms arrive at different times too. Bonus, eh?
Paul, you said you hadn't developed any definite symptoms - that suggests that (a) you're a wee bit worried and (b) you've got *some* symptoms. Are you ok?
In reply to paul hesketh:
These other symptoms you mention might not develop for years. (In my case about 40 years.)
You need to be aware of all the conditions that Lyme Disease can cause, and keep an eye out for the rest of your life.
Cheers
John
These other symptoms you mention might not develop for years. (In my case about 40 years.)
You need to be aware of all the conditions that Lyme Disease can cause, and keep an eye out for the rest of your life.
Cheers
John
In reply to JayH:
2 weeks antibotics is not sufficient.
You are wasting your time with blood tests in the UK, try the states.
Either use http://www.igenex.com/ for a test that may be recognised as valid over here.
Or use http://www.bowen.org/index_018.htm for a test that is currently undergoing federal approval, but is regarded by the offical testing labs over here as invalid.
Cheers
John
2 weeks antibotics is not sufficient.
You are wasting your time with blood tests in the UK, try the states.
Either use http://www.igenex.com/ for a test that may be recognised as valid over here.
Or use http://www.bowen.org/index_018.htm for a test that is currently undergoing federal approval, but is regarded by the offical testing labs over here as invalid.
Cheers
John
In reply to opalspark:
Thanks for the links. I found the eurolyme one yesterday - fantastic source of info. Also a good source of reassurance - I might be struggling day-to-day, but in the greater scheme of things it seems that I'm one of the lucky ones, I'm getting off lightly. Every day (even now) I keep thinking, och, I've probably been unlucky and just picked up a few viruses. It'll get better eventually. Then every night I realise that I'm ill and need to do something. But I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I can and should do.
Go to the docs. Fine. And ask for what? All my blood tests are normal. I've already had 2 weeks of antibiotics. Ask for more? Fine. But which ones. And how long? The problem with the websites is that the advice is a bit conflicting :oS
Thanks for the links. I found the eurolyme one yesterday - fantastic source of info. Also a good source of reassurance - I might be struggling day-to-day, but in the greater scheme of things it seems that I'm one of the lucky ones, I'm getting off lightly. Every day (even now) I keep thinking, och, I've probably been unlucky and just picked up a few viruses. It'll get better eventually. Then every night I realise that I'm ill and need to do something. But I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I can and should do.
Go to the docs. Fine. And ask for what? All my blood tests are normal. I've already had 2 weeks of antibiotics. Ask for more? Fine. But which ones. And how long? The problem with the websites is that the advice is a bit conflicting :oS
In reply to opalspark:
Thanks very much - I'll read them carefully this evening. Do you think getting a proper diagnosis via blood tests to the States is worth it? I've heard that even those can be a little unreliable (albeit far better than the NHS).
If I can be personal for a sec, how did you get diagnosed?
Thanks very much - I'll read them carefully this evening. Do you think getting a proper diagnosis via blood tests to the States is worth it? I've heard that even those can be a little unreliable (albeit far better than the NHS).
If I can be personal for a sec, how did you get diagnosed?
In reply to JayH:
I diagnosed myself via the internet. I had had constant 24/7 headaches for 2 years. Then I took metronidazole for a tooth infection and the headache went away. So I googled "antiobiotics cures headache". I found a reference to Lyme Disease.
As regarding tests it depends on your purpose for having the tests.
If you want email me off the forum.
Regards
John
I diagnosed myself via the internet. I had had constant 24/7 headaches for 2 years. Then I took metronidazole for a tooth infection and the headache went away. So I googled "antiobiotics cures headache". I found a reference to Lyme Disease.
As regarding tests it depends on your purpose for having the tests.
If you want email me off the forum.
Regards
John
In reply to JayH:
Yes there is lots of conflicting information on the web. Lyme Disease is something you need to decide on yourself.
The Uk conference on Lyme Disease is taking place in Sheffield in a few weeks time, there are still a few places left.
See http://www.lymediseaseaction.org.uk/conference/prog05.htm
Cheers
John
Yes there is lots of conflicting information on the web. Lyme Disease is something you need to decide on yourself.
The Uk conference on Lyme Disease is taking place in Sheffield in a few weeks time, there are still a few places left.
See http://www.lymediseaseaction.org.uk/conference/prog05.htm
Cheers
John
In reply to JayH: thanks for replying jay
"If you *do* get the bull's eye rash, then you have Lyme disease"
oh is the above for sure then? oh dear, that doesn't sound good, as i definately had a bulls eye type rash...it dissapeared after a week or so...
but yes i am abit concerned as you say and yes i have general symptoms that 'could' be attributed to lymes, but then they could also be many other things...
these symptoms are quite mild really and no way as debilatating as yours sound to be
The symptoms that I could associate with lymes have been quite mild, e.g. a spot or blurry vision (maybe twice a year) but this has been going on well before I had the bulls eye rash, so presumably I could discount this
The odd mild headache, came on at same time as blurry vision, went to the docs, he said it was a mild migraine
Abit of strain in tendons down back of hand, but I’m putting this down to keyboard/mouse work
a spot of loss of hearing, but, sorry to be personal, am putting this down to the plug of wax the doc could see down my ear
so what do I do? by the sounds of things the tests are quite unreliable, I feel on the whole fine within myself, reading around it seems that self-diagnosis of the clinical symptoms is the best way to move things forward…so do I just wait and see if any stronger symptoms develop?
"If you *do* get the bull's eye rash, then you have Lyme disease"
oh is the above for sure then? oh dear, that doesn't sound good, as i definately had a bulls eye type rash...it dissapeared after a week or so...
but yes i am abit concerned as you say and yes i have general symptoms that 'could' be attributed to lymes, but then they could also be many other things...
these symptoms are quite mild really and no way as debilatating as yours sound to be
The symptoms that I could associate with lymes have been quite mild, e.g. a spot or blurry vision (maybe twice a year) but this has been going on well before I had the bulls eye rash, so presumably I could discount this
The odd mild headache, came on at same time as blurry vision, went to the docs, he said it was a mild migraine
Abit of strain in tendons down back of hand, but I’m putting this down to keyboard/mouse work
a spot of loss of hearing, but, sorry to be personal, am putting this down to the plug of wax the doc could see down my ear
so what do I do? by the sounds of things the tests are quite unreliable, I feel on the whole fine within myself, reading around it seems that self-diagnosis of the clinical symptoms is the best way to move things forward…so do I just wait and see if any stronger symptoms develop?
In reply to paul hesketh:
Oh 'eck, I really can't advise. As for the bull's eye rash being Lyme disease, I'm only quoting from one of the sites I've visited. I'm no doctor!
I don't know if yours or my symptoms will get worse in time or not. Personally, if I thought I could live with them and they definitely wouldn't get worse, I'd probably just leave it. But I'm still trying to amass info on this myself... What's driving me to seek help is the fear that I *will* get worse.
I've been reading on the eurolyme site (link in one of opalspark's posts above) of a list of 'Lyme-literate' doctors in the UK. I guess if I were you, I'd see if one of them were local and try and get referred. What does anyone else think?
Oh 'eck, I really can't advise. As for the bull's eye rash being Lyme disease, I'm only quoting from one of the sites I've visited. I'm no doctor!
I don't know if yours or my symptoms will get worse in time or not. Personally, if I thought I could live with them and they definitely wouldn't get worse, I'd probably just leave it. But I'm still trying to amass info on this myself... What's driving me to seek help is the fear that I *will* get worse.
I've been reading on the eurolyme site (link in one of opalspark's posts above) of a list of 'Lyme-literate' doctors in the UK. I guess if I were you, I'd see if one of them were local and try and get referred. What does anyone else think?
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