UKC

I haven't had a weekend at home in months so this weekend I deliberately put my feet up to watch the cricket and relax.

Come Sunday I was itching to get out however and thought about going for a run. In the end, my girlfriend wanted to come so we settled on a long walk instead with a pub lunch halfway.

A few miles in to the walk we were passing a farm and a deep bark started coming from the garden. It was obviously a large dog so we picked up the pace as the gate was open. About 20m up the road we turned to see another dog had just run out of the gate and was trotting after us. It soon stopped and seemed more curious than threatening. We decided the landowner knew this dog wasn't dangerous and the other, barking dog had been tied up. Now my girlfriend has been bitten previously by a dog and still gets very nervous around them. She was now shaking and we were angry that the owner hadn't made any attempt to stop the dog getting on the footpath.

Not to be deterred we carried on. About half a mile later we were walking past a large house and an alsation came pounding down the garden and threw itself at the chain link wire fence right next to me and proceeded to bark and snarl at us poking his head through the fence. Now the fence was about 8ft high but it was only thin and there was a small gap underneath. We had to spend the next 5 mins (I said it was a large house) walking next to this thing not knowing whether it would get under or if, like the last house, a gate would be open further down. This dog was huge and was growling and snapping at us. My girlfriend was now crying and visibally shaking all over. When we got to the road we had a good long stop and I calmed her down. I was also shaking, normally OK around dogs, this one had scared the living sh*t out of me.

OK to go on we turned off the road again to be confronted with having to walk past another 100m of low chain link fence with a lab and another smaller evil looking dog barking furiously at us. Having got past these my girlfriend was a nervous wreck.

Another 10 mins down the road and another house. We could hear barking and my girlfriend refused to go any further and refused to go back past the other dogs. It was looking like we were going to have to camp forever until the owner came out to see what we were doing hanging around the corner. When I told her that my girlfriend was scared she laughed and said "Oh, they won't hurt a fly." The typical answer of a dog owner. In the end she shut them up and allowed us to pass.

On finally reaching the pub, my girlfriend having picked up a huge stick and nearly having a panic attack at every house we had a welcome lunch. We were then forced to walk back along a major A road so as to avoid any further dogs.

Recently, I was confronted and chased away from a farm for about a mile by three dogs. A friend of mine was chased and bitten by a dog not far from there.

I ask you all, and I'd be particularly interested to hear from dog owners, is it necessary to keep such aggressive dogs. If so, is it then so hard to keep them away from footpaths and roads so that we can enjoy the countryside without fear of mauling.

Not everyone loves dogs and in some cases people are deeply afraid of them. What was supposed to be a nice day out turned into a deeply traumatic event for my girlfriend and I intend to go back to the house of the alsatian and discuss it further.

I predict a load of responses about how they were protecting their territory and they wouldn't have hurt us but how are we supposed to know that?

I've been pushed to the edge. Is there anything I can do about these dogs and their inconsiderate owners?

In reply to Eric the Red:

My bird is the same, although she has also developed an aversion to marrows since she met me.

In reply to Eric the Red:

So only one dog was actually free to follow you and that was only curious? The ones barking were all behind fences?

In reply to Eric the Red: I know exactly what you mean. "He won't hurt you" they say, just as the feckin dog takes a chunk out of you leg. The follow up to that is "He's never done that before. It must be something you did!"

I hate em - the lot of em and won't hesitate to give a firm boot to the nose - animal cruelty or not.

As for those yappy dogs. Have you ever wondered how far they would go if you kicked em?

Yes but you've missed the point.

A fully grown alsatian growling, snarling and barking at your behind a single chain link fence immediately adjacent to the path is not something you should have to put up with.

As he jumped at the fence, it moved and bulged. The ground was earth and there were clear repairs made to old tunnels and an obvious height extension had been added.

The dog was obviously aggressive and should have been kept away from the boundary.

In reply to Jon Dittman:

I'e never been in the home of a dog owner that doesn't stink.

In reply to t0mb0:

Oh yeah, of course you forgot the ones that chased me on a previous occasion and the one that bit a friend of mine. He gave it a good kick in the jaw, still doesn't know what happened to it.

The little yappy ones are laughable.

John-exactly what I mean. "Oh his barks worse than his bite", "he won't bite" and "don't be scared" are all things I hear everday in the park as some small child soils his pants.

In reply to Eric the Red:

I'm not that keen on dogs either but it's a bit hard to see a solution, short of a secondary fence with a no-dog zone or locking it up somewhere.

Excellent ideas. A secondary fence would be perfect. I'd prefer it if they put them down and got cctv and a burglar alarm.

In reply to Eric the Red:

had a largish golden retriever deciding it wanted to repeatedly lick my hand walking along the canal other day. the owner (soppy middle aged couple) told me he was fine and wouldn't hurt me. Just gave them a real earful. The dog went the second they called it but they wouldn't do that for ages. I absolutely hate dogs. Always had a phobia of dogs and it doesn't help. I would of kicked the bloody thing if they hadn't got another dog with them too but gave them such an earful I really hope I ruined their day
p

In reply to Eric the Red:

Is the uk the only country that keeps dogs purely to scare the bejesus out of anyone who comes near their house? I dont recall being barked at in another country (not travelled widely though)
p

In reply to Eric the Red:
apart from the 1st dor I don't see a problem. you could have walked back the way you came and avoided said aggressive dog and not had any problems. Dog was on owners land and fenced in. Nuff said

In reply to Hotbad Peteel:

Push it in the canal?

In reply to Eric the Red: You don't smell of Aniseed do you? ;>)
I have a dog, which I feel is pretty well behaved - though she recently crapped in my mates car. Despite this I still feel nervous passing some dogs (not literally) and I feel guilty if my dog makes someone else nervous just by being a dog. Were you on a footpath thats come into being because of a right to roam, or has it always been this way? Just wondering if the dogs were strategically placed... Some people just don't like people using paths near their homes.

In reply to Phil Aterly:

Oh Yeah! I forgot. Once it's pushed in, hold it under with a stick.

In reply to Eric the Red:

sounds horrible...hope your girlfriend is ok.

You might find it interesting that some dog behavourarlists say that a bark is halfway between a growl (back off or I'll attack) and a howl (help! Run away!) and is designed to call the packs attention. Most sane barking dogs have a "comfort distance" if you get close the dog will retreat and continue barking, walls, fences and gates decrease the distance needed for the dog to be comfortable to challenge your presence on "its territory". A local German Shepard is often on the open on a track on seeing me it will run past me and get behind a fence to start barking?!?! As it is "safe" behind the fence even though the gate is open two metres away!

If you are feeling brave you can test this by opening the gate, I have tested this theory on a number of our local deranged sheep dogs at farm gates and ......it worked they all retreated to their “safe distance” and carried on barking for back up!

Some dogs do become nuisance barkers or car chasers because the "retreating action" of the car driving away or the walker moving on "rewards" the barking, jumping up at the fence etc . Again you can test this by stopping and making a move towards the dog, they will normally shut up and or step back the same distance you moved and start barking!

One of our local farms dogs was so “rewarded” by cars “fleeing” from his barking that he eventually developed the habit of silently running at the car and biting it, till he lost his front teeth biting a moving wheel! Even then he carried on, till a a few of us tried stopping the car and slowly reversing at him till he retreated…the result…he does not chase the cars that chase him back!

A silent dog running at you is the one to look out for....they hurt! Growls are warnings, a running growling dog probably will not bite, a running barking dog will almost certainly not bite you. A silent runner has decided to attack so no need to warn you or "bark" for back up!

Hope this helps you distinguish between nuisance barking and the signs of an immanent attack. Remember a human with a stick can easily drive of most dogs, they know when they are losing and have no sense of cowardice, they’ll just run a “safe” distance and …..start barking for back up. Most dogs can work out the significance of a human carrying stones…..

In reply to Simon Wells:

oo yer forgot to add during my little experiments I only got bitten twice. Once by a silent sheep dog that went for my ankles causing two puncture to my ankle and the second by a female collie in the door of the spar at Ambleside. She stopped barking, I held out my hand she sniffed it, wagged, I thought it was ok so walked into shop, she bit my leg! Got that one wrong!

In reply to Eric the Red:

This may sound harsh, but your best plan is to train your girlfriend (and yourself) to get used to dogs. Dogs can tell when someone is scared, and they will protect their property and it's borders.

I've had a full grown alsation run at me, barking like mad, whilst out running. I simply said "hello doggins" at it, and held out the back of my hand which it sniffed, and then ran bouncing back to it's owner, having made a new friend.

If I'd shied away from it, or turned and ran the other way it would probably have bitten me. That would have been my fault, not the dogs.

In reply to Eric the Red:

My wife doesn't like dogs, and when we go for walks we both carry heavy sticks which we wouldn't hesitate to use by whacking an agressive dog over the head if it attacked.

In reply to Dominion:

you'd of looked a right twonk if it bit your hand off and then the dog would get put down as should be done with all dogs that aren't restrained properly
p

In reply to Dominion:


No, it would be the fault of the owners for not controlling the beast. I'm okay around dogs but if one injured me I would have no qualms at all about seeking a court order to have it destroyed.

In reply to Hotbad Peteel:

OK, you have a point. I was reacting to the dogs' body language and behaviour - as I am comfortable with dogs and can usually read them, so I made a judgement based on what it was looking like doing and I used experience and judgement to make the correct decision in the circumstances.

It would not have bitten me, and I could tell that.

In reply to Eric the Red:


I take it you personally are going to offer to pay for it?

Sxx

In reply to Dominion: no it would have been the owners fault for letting the dog out untethered and you could have rightly had the dog put down.

as for training your self to "get used to dogs" have you any idea how pointless that suggestion is? would you take that view with someone scared of spiders, how about heights. Eric's girlfriend clearly has a phobia (as have I for dogs) and as such has a visceral reaction to dogs, there is no "training" to prevent that response.

And for all dogs owners out there, "s/he won't hurt you, he's being friendly" doesn't help.

In reply to Sarah G: how long do alsations live? I would suggest that the saved "running costs" of the dog would offset the security system in time..... :p

In reply to Simon Wells:

PS By running from a dog you may well engage its hunting instinct and almost certainly "reward" its barking i.e "you ran away cause I barked".

The answer? Stop, calmly assess the likely level of threat (it is much easer to fend of an attack when facing the animal) when satisfied you are safe slowly turn an walk away in the manner that says "I am the uber dog".

I once saw my Mother face of a silently running sheep dog that had already attacked one man. She stopped turned and roared at it while waving her arms above her head. The dog carried on at the same speed but managed a beautiful 180 degree turn and fled the way it had come...silently.

Lesson: Sane dogs are cowards and unless corned will normally retreat if faced by a fiercer predator, like my mum!

In reply to Ian Straton:

I suggest that everyone learns street talk and gets into phat beats and hip hoop. This will allow them to deal with mnuggings on da street, as they'll be home boyz and down with the killaz. If people don't do this they can hardly blame the muggers who are merely seeking to protect their turf and keeping the other pimps outta their pad.
p

As expected, a full range of responses and even some useful ones for a change!

The doggy pyschology is very interesting and I have faced down dogs in the past. If what you say is true, it is interesting to note that we watched the alsatian run the full length of the garden in complete silence, he only went mental after crashing into the fence. My amateur pooch pyschology of facing the thing down did little to calm him, and when we walked on I forced my girlfriend not to run. It didn't help.

I don't think you should have to learn to deal with this aggression as someone has already said. CCTV and a burglar alarm will be cheaper than a dog as someone also said.

As a note, the footpath was the Sussex Border Path.

In reply to Eric the Red: I do not trust dogs for one simple reason 'THEY CANNOT TALK' you never kno wot a dog is thinking, dog owners may say you can tell due to wagging of tail, look in eys etc. but i think this is a load of pap. I once got attacked by a dog that was all puppy eys and waggy tail till i started stroking it. It then sat down went quiet and looked at me, i got nervous went to walk off and the f*ker went for my legs. Luckily it was tied up so i could run off.Until a dog that can spk is invented i will never trust the little bastards (this extends to all other animals as well).

In reply to Adam Moroz:

People talk... Do we trust them then?

In reply to Eric the Red:


I got told by a dog trainer once, look the dog in the eyes until it backs down and then it will not cause any more problem.
However this was followed by statement that some dogs will attack because if they are losing the staring contest.

In reply to Adam Moroz:


It's very unwise to stare a dog in the eyes unless you know it very well indeed, and are friends with it - and even then it won't like it, mostly, because it will see it as a direct challenge...

Apparantly, pulling a dogs two front legs apart sharply will stop its heart.

Also, if you hold a stick in two hands, one hand either end and hold it out in front of you at arms length, the dog will bite this instead. Then, you can kick it in the jaw and break it causing the dog to be a floppy mouthed laughing stock.

Can't say I particularly want to experiment so if anyone has any first hand experience I'd be glad to hear it!

Oh, to the person earlier who said I could have just turned round and gone the other way. Yes, I could have, back past the house who couldn't be bothered to shut their gate. But why should I?

In reply to Eric the Red:

Owning dogs all my life it drives me to dispair .... the number of owners who don't think seriously about their responsabilities - not just the actual physical implications of the dog but also the perseptions.

Walking along a footpath with an agressive dog on the other side is just as hard for a dog owner. Somtimes the dog is even more keen to get through because of our dogs. My mums garden (old house now) used to have a footpath down the side. Her older dog used bark like you describe so when she moved in I put up a second fence 3 ft from the outer one to give a more posative statement that we understood people had a right to walk there. It also meant she had a nice untrampled flower bed.

Our Husky when we first got him used to be quite pushy with other dogs (afterall he was a stray). We had him castrated - easy - but it seems many men get quite squeamish about this. Dont know why as it was not my balls they chopped off.

Same Husky has taken a lot of hard and consistant work on my part to be truely disiplined (fed after us, through gates after us, pack disiplin..etc) and I am fairly confident that he will not chase livestock..but in Wales we walk him on a leash all the time. Why? Simply because the Farmers general perception of a Husky is that they are trouble, while Collies are fine, and I am concerned to give the right impression when walking on the hill. (the number of dogs we see chasing sheep 'they are only playing' disgusts me.)

I know Eric that I am in a minority in be very concerned with the implications of our dog ownership on others, I am just a pissed off by that as you are. After all we own dogs for their companionship - not to be guard dogs. I think in generall there is a lack of understanding of the true pack relationship with dogs.

Unfortunatly I think it is a sign of the times - and would only ask not to think that all dog ownrers are like that. Afterall the I dont blame all joggers and cyclers for the minority who seem intent on knocking me over.

In reply to Eric the Red:


Go to a pet shop and get a spray collar refil - citroynella, mustard or pepper (not the same as police pepper spray).

Fit an old harispray nozzle on the top and you have a handy dog repelant (one that is even vet approve for use on a dog).

If the owner challenges you - sugest that they actually get a spray collar (we have one for the husky to stop him eating rubbish) and control the dog themselves.

Thanks! My anger is still fermenting so I'm particularly anti dog at the moment which has obviously come out in my posts. I'm not normally like it, most dogs I'm happy with.

I would like to add that on the same walk a dog was being walked on the path. My girlfriend tensed up and the owner, sensing it got the dog to sit and shortened the lead as we passed. We were incredibly grateful to him.

So to all the considerate owners out there. Thankyou.

The idea of the second fence is such a simple idea and so effective. Even just a foot inside would be enough. In fact a simple sign saying, "This dog is fully secured and cannot escape onto the footpath" would be perfect.

In reply to Eric the Red:

My condolensces to your girlfriend.

I've experienced both sides of the dog war. I've had to put up with other people's dogs barking add nauseam in closely packed housing while trying to study for exams. I've been bitten by a dog while the owner walked past with it on a lead (and I needed stitches).

I also own a dog and currently have neighbours who are entirely unreasonable and unfriendly towards dogs, even when immaculately behaved. I own two and a half acres of woodland and my neighbours are a long way away through the woods, but if my dog barks at something for more than a few moments, they call the police without even talking to us. We don't have any fences, and if my dog puts a single paw on their land, over the imagined boundary which is a long way from their house, they call the police. That's unreasonable behaviour.

We live in the wilderness (Canadian Rockies), and when out walking in the middle of nowhere, I refuse to keep my dog on a lead. She's a very friendly, relatively small mongrel, and doesn't act in an aggressive manner. And yet, a few weeks back while walking to a crag, I came round the corner to find a bloke standing in a highly defensive manner, brandishing a stick, between his almost apoplectic girlfriend and my dog, who was not acting in a problematic manner whatseoever, and was just stood on the path sniffing the air at this guy thinking 'what on earth is he doing'. The girlfriend was a gibbering mess of tears and distress.

Now that's ridiculous, and the girl in this instance clearly has a phobia that needs addressing, in my opinion. At that level it becomes her problem, not mine. If you found someone collapsed next to you by the cheese counter in a supermarket because they had a phobia of the colour shirt you were wearing, would that make you the bad guy? Let's be reasonable here.

I would also suggest your girlfriend, while not at this level, might benefit from some professional help with regards to dogs, if a barking dog behind a fence is sending her close to a panic attack. That's a bit extreme. But yes, if owners can see their dog behaving ike this close to a footpath, they should, out of courtesy, do something about it. Even if it doesn't scare you, it's just a pain in the arse.

You've probably heard this before, but dog psychology is such that they bark and go mental behind fences because they're 'showing off' how tough they are and actually feel quite safe behind their fence. Remove the fence and they shut up.

In reply to Ian Straton:

You have obviously never heard of behavorial therapy then.

I fully agree that owners should never allow their dogs to be aggressive to members of the public, but there will always be knobs about who don't care.

Learning to deal with dogs and their behoviour is the easiest way to be safe and happy around them.

As others have mentioned, very few dogs will attack a person who is not scared of them. You are considerably bigger than most of them after all.

She really isn't that bad. It's definitely not a phobia. In fact, friends dogs and smaller dogs are fine and she'll pet them and play with them.

On the day, it was the combination of a dog being allowed to stray onto the footpath closely followed by the most aggressive dog I have ever seen that caused a cumulative effect. The alsatian, as I have said wasn't merely barking behind a fence. It was growling, gnashing its teeth and throwing itself at the fence repeatedly. The holes in the fence were ample for it to stick his muzzle through.

The following dogs were all behind fences barking, which although annoying, as isolated incidents are acceptable. They added to the cumulative effect however.

In reply to Dom Orsler:

I think comparing a phobia of dogs and a phobia of a certain colour shirt is a little bit idiotic. I have a phobia of dogs barking and baring teeth at me. Thats because it looks like there going to attack. I've never been in fear of physical injury from a shirt. Dogs have done and will do again actual physical injury. I think a better comparison would be barking dogs and aggressive people. People might act aggressively to you walking down the street and threaten you. They probably wont attack you but every so often you come across a psycho or a smackhead who will. You don't know until after they've smacked you. Out of curiosity, when you found this man brandishing a stick at your dog, what did you do. Did you immediately call the dog to heel or did you just look at him like he was an idiot?
p

In reply to Eric the Red: The only seemingly scary incident I can think of regarding a dog, who I'd suggest should have been tied up, but may actually have been a stray so that wouldn't have worked, happened walking to meerbrook down a road in the twilight. It only lasted a few seconds, but the was a moment of 'f*ck' and it seemed to last a while.

Walking down the road, there were about 8 of us, and a hedge on the right. Out of nowhere came this barky growly noise and a fraction of a second later a small jack russell shaped object came flying over the hedge, at about head height, and straight for us. It was a scary moment as it appeared he was going to intercept us mid air and just bite on.

Fortunately he twisted in the air, landed about a foot or two behind us and just went barreling off up the road into the dark. It was surreal and slightly scary for me, but I can just about cope with dogs. But if you're scared of them, it could have been truly terrifying.

Not entirely sure where he came from - there was a house near by, but you couldn't tell if he belonged to it, so don't know who should have taken responsibility for them - but flying growling dogs are certainly not something I'd like to see too often.

In reply to Hotbad Peteel:

I called my dog to heel immediately. We may disagree about certain things, but I'm not an arsehole. If I see someone genuinely distressed, I try to help, even if I think they're being unreasinable and/or irrational.

You're missing a point I'm trying to make regarding the shirt, which is intended to illustrate the irrational nature of a phobia. The definition of a phobia is just that; it's an irrational fear. If you got hit by a car as a pedestrian and go on to become extremely nervous around traffic, that's deep routed conditioning. If you've never been injured by a dog, but find them terrifying to the point of sweating and panicing even in safe situations (and I'm not saying that's Eric's girlfriend), then that, I would argue, is irrational and phobic. You're in no more danger than you would be standing next to someone in the wrong coloured shirt, but some people could do exactly that.

And be careful before you use expressions like 'idiotic' on a forum; it tends to inflame people and detracts from the debate.

Speaking of dogs and owners, there seemed to be an awful lot of people who were happy to let their dogs run around free around Burbage North on Sunday, despite there being sheep grazing all over the place.

In reply to Dom Orsler:

it only detracts when people misread it and take it the wrong way. I definitely think your wrong on this one. Being scared of dogs is not really a phobia. They can and do do actually cause harm. A phobia of something absurd like a colour is absurd and irrational, but a phobia of something that looks like its going to harm you is rational. I wouldn't call it a phobia as its pretty comparable to someone being scared of police pointing guns at them. Of course their safe but you can never be absolutely certain and some people react badly to uncertainty in those situations
p

In reply to Hotbad Peteel:


I would agree here with the provision i think it comes down to the size of the dog. Personally if some yappy little jack russell comes at me i cant say i would be concerned, but a alsation or similar large powerful dog would be slightly concerning.

In reply to dissonance:

same here. I've always had a big phobia of dogs but i'm normally ok to give the owners an earful rather than crossing the road
p

In reply to Simon Wells: Simon's experience matches mine.

Most dogs have very strong guarding instincts and will warn off potential intruders to their territory. It's probably nor a great reassurance for anyone nervous of dogs but my dog only barks as people come near the house to attract my attention to whoever is there so that I can deal with any issue. If he feels threatened he will growl deeply to give a warning and his body language is very different (quite funny to see his "apology" if does this when you come back from work early and wake him up).

I think that a point not raised so far is that, whilst the dog has very strong instinctive reactions, dogs' behaviour is also influenced by strongly by their owners' behaviour. Aggressive owners will often have aggressive dogs and I look to the owner as much as the dog for signs of trouble (tho' locally there is a big tatooed guy with a pitbull and he goes out of his way to show that he and his dog are gentle). Also, there are many owners who have just failed to train their dogs effectively.

Sadly, also, a lot of people fail to give their dogs sufficient stimulation and social interaction. Another reason for the fence-hurling behaviour is that the dog is bored and is trying to make some entertainment for itself at your expense (especially working dogs, German Shepherds and Collies, in my experience), also this is to show that it is "top dog". Last year I spent a week husky-dog sledding and the guy running the trip kept talking about the dogs' sense of humour. I thought that he had gone a bit stir crazy from lack of sunlight and too much vodka but found myself seeing the same behaviours before I left...

In summary:
There are very few dogs that are vicious and where they are it is in large part because of the owner.
Dogs deliberately do things to seem threatening but this is not meant to end in attack
Never run from a dog, it will probably bring out their chasing instinct and they are faster than you.

In reply to Hotbad Peteel:

'Incorrect', 'wrong', 'misguided', 'a bit off-beam'... All fair enough when a difference of opinion occurs. But saying someone's opinion is 'idiotic' is very hard to misread and quite emmotive. I've been using forums long enough to know that it's this kind of insult which often causes things to degenerate into mud-slinging nonsense.

People not being able to admit when they're wrong also causes problems.

Neither of us are psychiatrists, although I'm a doctor, so have a certain degree of moderate expertise in this matter. I know enough about phobias, their definitions and etiology to be able to state with confidence that an advanced, physiological set of fear responses to situations on which you're in no danger, without previous, serious injury resulting in conditioning, almost always may be classified as a phobia. Arachnophobia is a classic example. Your chances of being hurt by a spider are magnificently slim. And yet 99% of people in the uk are terrified of large house spiders. A primevil fear of dangerous spiders, however, means a lot of the time our subconscious is saying a spider could kill you. They look dangerous, and our subconscious tells us they are. But they're not, and we react phobically.

A dog barking in a cage is not in the least bit dangerous. To exhibit advanced physiological fear responses to this stimulus is irrational, unless there is a good chance the dog is about to be released and you have no way of avoiding imminent attack.

Driving down a motorway at 90 mph doesn't worry most people, as we do it every day without problem. It's almost certainly a lot more dangerous than standing next to a cgae containing a barking dog. Simply jerk the wheel violently either way, and you're likely to die, but does simply driving in a straight line cause us to sweat and panic?

It's all about conditioning and perception... The things you're saying would suggest you need to read up on the origins of phobias and their treatment.

In reply to steve gandy:
my dog only barks as people come near the house to attract my attention to whoever is there so that I can deal with any issue.

In my view that is the healthy way to have it where the dog is looking upto you to be pack leader and protect it - rather than it taking on the task of protecting you.

Unfortunatly I don't think it is just agressive owners - I think many overly agressive dogs also created through ignorance of the 'dog in the human pack' structure and that detail and consistancy are vitally important.

In reply to Dom Orsler:

I'm having a very hard time understanding your arguments here. Your examples vary from answer to answer. you originally used an example of a dog free to run about and approaching a woman who was scared of dogs. Your now discussing the irrationality of being scared of a caged dog. As such i'm just going to ignore you as its a lot easier. Goodbye
p

We were talking about dog owners letting their darlings scare the living sh*t out of innocent people, not the definition of phobias.

I am fine with dogs. The alsatian scared me. I think we've decided this shouldn't be allowed and the owner was being inconsiderate.

My next question is are they breaking any laws and what should I do about it? Should I knock on the door, or more likely poke the doorbell with a 10ft stick wearing full body armour with a pepper spray in the other hand. Or should I write to them or the local paper? Or should I let the police know? A small child putting their hand through the fence wouldn't see it again.

In reply to Adam Moroz:

"I once got attacked by a dog that was all puppy eys and waggy tail till i started stroking it. It then sat down went quiet and looked at me, i got nervous went to walk off and the f*ker went for my legs"

Ouch! Hope it healed up. With out being their its hard to say what happened. But the wagging and puppy eyes with a bent spine and tail between legs are EITHER submissive or fear. If a dog is scared and feels it can not escape its reactions will be similar to what you experience, even though you "knew" you where walking away the dog "knew" it was about to be attacked (people step backwards before kicking a dog to get a good swing?)

My 30kg Saluki Lurcher was dozing in his kennel last week, went to pat him and he very badly bit my hand. I was in bare feet and he had not heard me so when he was woken by a touch fear kicked in. When he saw what he had done he crawled to my feet and wet himself. A canine sign of complete capitulation (or joy, so maybe he liked it? I had to interview people that day for a job and you could see the candidates staring at my hand as it bled through the bandage, “do I want a job here, they bite each other?”)

Dog body language and behaviour is complex and a lot of owners do not take the time to understand and train their pet wolf, the results are your negative experiences. Dogs are like cars dangerous in the wrong hands, but offer some benefits.

In reply to Hotbad Peteel:

What an admirable dialectic example you set for the rest of us.

Ever bumped into an ostrcih with your head down there?

In reply to Eric the Red:

i would think it was either something the police or the council could deal with. Maybe the council would be able to get an order to stop it being a public nuisance. Theres also the dangerous dogs act. If its running at the fence actively trying to attack people (whetehr or not it actually will do should be academic in my opinion) it might be dealt with under the dangerous dogs act. Maybe our resident lawyer could help
p

In reply to Simon Wells:

"Dogs are like cars dangerous in the wrong hands, but offer some benefits."

Couldn't agree more! Well said! And what regulations and constraints do we impose upon people who own dogs or aspire to owning them? Pretty much none.

In reply to Eric the Red:

Have a look at the dangerous dogs act. It does not just apply to the 4 banned breeds. If they do not have a dog tag then it is an offence (I am sure you took note in the circumstance)

Call the RSPCA or dog warden. If they left it in the garden without water it would constitute cruelty

Certainly the one who left the gate open is potentially guilty of allowing a public nuisance - but it is probably a civil offence (sloper?)

Ask your local post man on dog laws. From experience he probably knows what can be done. Our local on got bit in the balls by a Lab. The union took the owners to court.

In reply to Eric the Red:

When I was bitten with out warning by a collie the farmer whom I found in the milking shed could not apologise enough. Most owners would be mortified....if not contact the police...but the dog you mentioned was only jumping up against the fence, not sure if that is an offence. I my case I was I had a trainer full of blood and being local told the farmer he was lucky it was me and not a child etc etc but if the dog so much as looked in my direction again……police etc

In reply to Dom Orsler:
"... what regulations and constraints do we impose upon people who own dogs or aspire to owning them? Pretty much none."

errr Dangerouse Dogs Act, Noise Pollution Legislation, Bye Laws on Fouling, Protectionof Live Stock and Game, mentioned in CRoW, Baiting and Gaming Laws etc etc.

So for a list that should be empty its not doing badly!

In reply to Eric the Red:

But that's the point, Eric. Fear, phobia, intimidation, etc. It's all subjective. I'm trying to make the point that how scary a dog or situation is varies greatly amoung the population, and if you go too far in one direction, you start to impose laws and regulations based upon irrational fears, pretty soon you're oppresing people. If you go too far the other way, you end up restricting some people's freedoms within society.

I explained that I've had experience at both ends of the spectrum, and my question is simply 'where do you draw the line'?

In reply to Simon Wells:

Sorry; I thought the context was obvious iven the post to which I was replying. Let me expand for the hard of meaning;

"what regulations and constraints do we impose upon people with regards to training and conditioning their dogs? Pretty much none"

In reply to Dom Orsler:

"and my question is simply 'where do you draw the line" How about at the fence?

In reply to Dom Orsler:

"what regulations and constraints do we impose upon people with regards to training and conditioning their dogs? Pretty much none"

err un accpetable behouver by the dog and unacceptable use of the dog are defined by the Dangerouse Dogs Sct, Noise Pollution, Bye Laws on fouling, Baiting and Gaming legislation, Mentioned in the CRoW act etc etc.

So regulations and constraints are imposed upon people with regards to training and conditioning their dogs!

In reply to Eric the Red:

'The act created a new offence of being an owner of a dog of any type or breed which is dangerously out of control in a public place.

Out of control dogs can be seized by police or local authority officers and the owners faces a fine or up to six months in prison.'

I guess it could come down to whether a garden with a poorly maintained fence constitutes a public place.

In reply to Simon Wells:

Stop trying to sound clever simply for the sake of it. The point of this debate has moved on. I thought Eric was talking about a dog going mental behind a fence, potentially upsetting users of a public right of way on the other side. Let's say the dog is not going to hurt anyone, but scares some people and makes them feel very uncomfortable. Is this an offence?

Breach of the peace?

In reply to Dom Orsler:


I think most people would be intimidated by a large dog looking like it is very keen to rip your throat out, unless you are one of those people expertly trained in yanking the dog's legs apart to kill it (which seems to me as flawed as the punching a shark on its nose idea).

>and if you go too far in one direction, you start to impose laws and regulations based upon irrational fears, pretty soon you're oppresing people.

Taking the original scenario it was a big dog behind a fence that didnt appear that secure. If it was securely caged then it could be argued it was irrational however it there are big holes in the fence etc i too would be concerned.

In reply to Simon Wells: No they're not. You're perfectly at liberty to possess and train an extremely dangerous dog and to try to make it as dangerous as possible.

In reply to IainM:

http://www.webtribe.net/~shg/Dangerous%20Dogs%20Act%201991%20(1991%20c%2065...

In reply to Dom Orsler:

Dom I am looking at you calmly....in the eyes.....you barking shows me you are scared and what support form your pack...be calm Dom..I won't attack you. Nice Domiee, tickly tummie?

In reply to Dom Orsler:

Bad dog Domiee you should read more...
Dangerous Dogs Act 1991
1991 CHAPTER 65


"An Act to prohibit persons from having in their possession or custody dogs belonging to types bred for fighting; to impose restrictions in respect of such dogs pending the coming into force of the prohibition; to enable restrictions to be imposed in relation to other types of dog which present a serious danger to the public; to make further provision for securing that dogs are kept under proper control; and for connected purposes"

In reply to Simon Wells:

That just addresses dog 'types' or breeds. You can still own a Rotweiler or Doberman and train it to be a mental killer. As long as you don't allow it to cause problems, you're fine.

But I don't claim to have all the answers wrt how you keep a dog. My point, like another poster above, is that this is a tricky and subjective area.

Traditionally, people don't discuss tricky and subjective issues on forums. Least of all this one.


As you're kind of demonstrating quite eloquently

In reply to IainM: 'Public Place'

Stop and Search Bill

You can be searched in public places, or on private land if this is “readily accessible” to the public at the time of the search, but you may not be searched in a dwelling.

Charities Bill

2.34 This Bill expands the definition of a ‘public place’ where permits are required to include any highway and any place where members of the public have access that: ‘is not within a building, or if within a building, is a public area within any station, airport or shopping precinct or any other similar public area.

Sloper - could it be reasonably argued that a garden with an unlocked gate is a 'public place'

In reply to Simon Wells: ...and so the act would apply to the "curious" dog that Erik saw first as it followed them up the road and not the "aggressive" dog behind the fence.

On dogs' psychology, it's also interesting to watch dogs' behaviour with each other on and off the leash. They are very much more aggressive on the leash; off the leash they very quickly decide which is top...

In reply to Eric the Red:

Sorry to hear about you and especially your girlfriend's experience!

I have nothing against dogs per se: I have owned, trained and responsibly managed several in the past.
I do have an issue with irresponsible owners.
Let's be clear here - a dog is a killing machine honed by millions of years of evolution. There may be a few thousand years of "civilisation" overlying the basic programming - but these things are dangerous predators.
We currently live next door to a couple who have a Husky / Samoyed type animal four years old. They lack the understanding / willingness to perform the most basic training - this thing still craps in their house. The thing barks all the time and when I suggested politely that they try a spray collar to make it quit, they told me they had tried it once - but the dog looked distressed so they took it off.
The animal will not even come to heel when it's owners call it.

I have small kids who want to run around squealing like wee kids do - and this dog is allowed to roam around without restraint.
Basically the thing does as it pleases so I am not willing to risk the thing deciding to go after the small squealing running prey and so my kids have to be restricted for their own safety.

Let's face it if the animal decided to attack my kids, there is not a damn thing its owners would be able to do to stop it.
There should be some sort of test or certification required for owners of dogs just like for owners of other dangerous weapons.
Even though I have owned dogs in the past - I know their basic instincts are still there - once the kids arrived - owning dogs stopped.
Just my take on things!!

In reply to Dom Orsler:

if that is the case why does the preface to the act say:

So any type of dog who is deemed to pose a threat to the public could fall under the scope of the act!

So calm down as they dog catchers might be after you! Grwwwwwllll

In reply to Eric the Red: If I had a footpath running past my house I'd have a slathering monster for a pet as well. Sorry.
Used to live next door to a farm that had a footpath accross one of the fields. Many, many people would pop into our garden just to say hello and how they were on the footpath, weren't they??
The farmer had things nicked rather too often as well.
Cheers

Toby

In reply to IainM:

seems a little bit of an odd perspective but I half see your reasoning. I'd have thought that someones garden is not public if social norms say you dont go on that land, but wasteland that all the kids play on would be under that and that seems ok to me. As far as the dogs concerned, if its contained within a garden by a fence, no matter how week the fence is its not a public place. Even if the fence is broken but its obviously inhabited its not public. If the dogs got through the fence then its definitely in public so it turns a little irrelevant. (Whys this in the carities bill?)
p

In reply to Simon Wells:

I have to admit to being slightly confused as to why you keep telling me to calm down. That could be classed as phobic behaviour...

In reply to Dom Orsler:

too much caffeine?
p

In reply to Hotbad Peteel: I think they needed a definition to mandate collection licences - otherwise somone collecting door to door, in your front garden, could claim they did not need a licence as they were on private land.

It strikes me that legal definitions ought to be consistant between laws unless specifically stated otherwise.

I think the boundary between land these days is not as clear as it once was, and as an individual you have responsabilities even on private land. I think it is under civil law - but if a burgular falls down an uncovered pit in your garrage - they can take you to court for damages.

In reply to Dom Orsler:

....sense of humour?

In reply to Simon Wells:

i'd be surprised if he remembers what he wrote to cause it
p

In reply to Hotbad Peteel: Although a dog owner and not particularly concerned by most dogs, i must admit to a fear of the odd 'hound from hell'.

Would relevant signs and steps that are practicable sp? not cover your private land?

Only there are rights of way throughout rural areas, of scotland in particular, that have cattle grazing. A bite would be the least of your worries in many cases?

Surely an individual trespassing and being bitten could hold you to account. But i would be surprised if a dog barking and being 'agressive' in a fenced garden would be be considered as a danger? if you are scared, then surely that is your issue? Noise etc is different i guess imho.

Guess i am curious as to the protection offered the dog in terms of burglers etc if signs are present and doors locked?

In reply to Simon Wells:

Aaaahhh, the old forum trick of trying to make out someone is really upset and stressed out with no sense of humour, etc.

No, in all seriousness, I'm not at all ruffled, haven't had any coffee, but was starting to find the repeated claims that I was angry mildly tiresome, as I was kind of interested in the debate at hand.

If someone doesn't find your jokes very funny, it doesn't necessarily mean they have no sense of humour. It might just mean that, well, you're not very funny.

Never mind. No hard feelings.

In reply to Dom Orsler:

"I'm not at all ruffled,"

ruffled as in feathers? Please except my deepest apologies for implying you are canine when in fact you are avine!

In reply to steven d:

I think your answering iainms post there . My personal view is that if the dog is behind a fence but it is causing distress to people in a public place where they are limited in what they can do to avoid it (i.e. a footpath next to a busy road) then the problem is actually occuring in a public place, regardless of whether the actual dog is on provate land. I think if you enter private land and the dog attacks you then thats different, but then theres other ciscumstances such as straying onto unmarked private land (fences obviously help) and the definition of a driveway in the carities act as public land is quite useful for that. If you make the land available for people to enter then yur making it public. By putting a gate in your fence as the sole means of accessing the door with the letterbox on your effectively inviting people to enter your land for limited activities, i.e. posting letters. Attacking them by proxy afterwards isn't really on
p

In reply to Simon Wells:

Are you calling me a chicken?

In reply to Dom Orsler:

very good! Every one else in the office is looking at me for laughing out loud, no one laughs when preparing paper work for Gold D of E expeditions, least no any sane type of laughter

In reply to steven d:

Yes - I think warnings would be taken into account - but as P sugests - having the postbox in your front door, any warning on the gate would be undermined as you are in effect inviting the postman in.


Certainly they could sue you for dammages but also I think the owner has to take reasonable steps. Just because you are on someone elses land does not give the landowner unlimited rights and dont forget if an individual actively encourages a dog to attack/bite the person can be prosecuted for assalt.


I would say that an agressive dog barking/snapping through a fence is moere likely to be agresive/bite you if you were in the garden - in comparison to a passive dog. I know the dog behaviourists are asserting that as soon as Eric or his GF stepped inside it would back off - but in comparison I would put more faith in a passive dog coming up to say hello. (I have had my nose unexpectidley ripped open by my mums younger dog, and she shows distinct competative teratorial behavour).

What if it was a child (will someone please think of the children) wandered through an unlocked gate - too young to read or understand any warning? I seem to recall reports in the media where a child climbed over a fence and got mauled - that would be different to an unlocked gate. I think the owner has to take reasonable steps. Just because you are on someone elses land does not give them unlimited rights and dont forget if an individua actively encourages a dog to attack/bite the person can be prosecuted for assalt.


The same protection as offered it from it's owner - Animal Cruelty laws. I guess it is difficult if the dog attacked the burgler and he battered it. I guess there would be a judgement on the extent of each offence - in the similar way if the homeowner battered the burglar.

OK.

We have established that most of my experiences are absolutely fine. Although I would argue that the dog on the footpath should be better constrained. The large and aggressive alsatian remains.

The animal was not barking to protect his territory. He was repeatedly attempting to attack us with the fence seemingly a barrier. Anyone saying he would have stopped if the fence wasn't there obviously didn't see the dog.

So, is having an aggressive dog behind a secure fence (which in hindsight it was on this occasion) perfectly legal?

I would argue that any aggressive dog should be shot. However, failing this I would say that on boundaries to public rights of way, the dog should be constrained a sufficient distance so as not to cause any fear on behalf of any member of public wishing to use it.

By this I mean, a member of the public should be able to use any right of way without reasonably being in fear for his/her life.

Therefore, am I in my rights to demand that the owner be reprimanded and forced to contain their mini-dragon to greater effect?

In reply to Hotbad Peteel:

The difference between you and Dominion is that he obviously understands dgos in a way that you probably never will.

Ah, we all need a little bit of canine empathy. Now I see where I've been going wrong.

In reply to Eric the Red:
Yes - you are within your rights to demand it - whether it is acted upon is another matter.

Seriously - even being a dog owner I would contact the council dog warden and rights of way officer and voice your 'concerns' Eric.

Back to my mums older dog - he was badly attacked once while out (stitches needed). The owner of the other dog put on this 'oh - he's usually so friendly act'. When we contacted the dog warden this other dog had prior form and the owner had already been prosecuted.

You don't know if the owner of the dog has already been waned about the state of the fence, control of the dog etc but it will not cost you much time to give them a ring.

Indeed. My mum works for the RSPCA and has given me the number of the dog warden.

Is interesting to hear some views from dog owners. In my opinion it is going over the heads of the people concerned that causes ill-feeling. I will therefore be writing directly to the house concerned before going any further.

I will voice my 'concerns' (which now appear to require inverted commas) whilst attempting to suggest appropriate solutions to them without sounding rude or arrogant. Somehow.

I might even go back to the fence in question to see if it happens again as it's not far off my normal running route.

In reply to Eric the Red:

I would not dare call them phobias

In reply to IainM: Or go for another walk past the alsatian, this time taking a big stick. When it throws itself against the fence, give it a light tap (not a smack) and see what it does. If it runs away, you've won. If it goes mental, speak to the owners. I doubt you'll have a leg to stand on legally, as it's in their garden, on their land, so isn't a "public" nuisance. Yes, it's annoying and scarey, but it's behind a fence on their land.

Big sticks are the way forward. Good against swan attacks too!

Nim

I can imagine the owner's reaction when I knock on the door.

"Hi. I was just walking past your garden and Fido started barking at me. When I hit it with a stick it went mental. I think you should have it looked at."


Is it not a public nuisance if I have to walk 2 miles out of my way to get past?

In reply to Eric the Red: Eh?

Just typed out a reply, then re read your post.

Did anything actually happen?

One curious Dog walked after you.

and a few dogs barked in their garden?

Some dogs can be a problem, but I don't think anything happened. I'm confident (and have seen) our dogs will be very agressive in their own territory, open the garden gate and they won't be like that outside. They are both used to protect the hens and ducks as well so know they are to bark and keep everything out.

In reply to Acrophobic: Couldn't that same argument be used for people?

In reply to Iain Ridgway:

Thanks. You re-read my post but then didn't read any more I see. I've conceded that most of the incidents were nothing, they just added to the cumulative effect.

I run, as I know you do, and therefore experience probably 25 barking dogs behind fences a week. The idea that the dog would stop barking if you took the fence away is interesting and I'm prepared to believe it, if not test it.

The alsatian, this was no ordinary barking dog. I swear it had red eyes and blood dripping from it's lips. It was the devil's dog and in it's eyes it was saying "I want to rip out your throat." Had the fence not been there I reckon I'd be in hospital. I have never, ever seen a dog throw itself at a fence at full speed before.

In reply to Eric the Red:

Probably been said elsewhere on post but contact the relevant Rights of Way Department as loose and agressive dogs may constitute an obstruction to the right of way under the Highways Act.

In reply to Eric the Red: Well I run in the hills, so through farms, in farms you often come across fairly wild dogs, I ALWAYS stop running, walk, and have been fine. I never go inside a chain length as territory comes into play.

I also never run near working dogs, I've seen collies react to situations while working and it isn't pleasant.

No offence, but it does sound like your GF has a problem with dogs, I'm not excusing any behaviour by dogs, but unable to walk down the street is affecting her life, only slightly now, but it's something I'd be concerned about.

Fact is in Britain its a very Pro dog attitude, and I don't think things will change.

Over here no dogs are allowed off the lead in cities at all, it's very anti dogs, you MUST have secure fencing to won a dog, and I think you even need a licence. I can't see that happening in the UK.

I run in the country, not near enough any big hills for my liking but it's not the town.

Any farm dogs I come across are generally ok. It's the one's owned by minted landowners, generally city workers in these parts, that have bought a farm but don't need to work the land. They then buy massive dogs like they're in the bronx.

Neither I, nor my girlfriend have a problem with dogs, but this one dog was not normal. I might go back tonight with a video camera and try and get it hosted somewhere to show you what I mean!

In reply to Eric the Red:

A lot of good info on this thread although by instinct whenever I've been confronted by an aggressive dog I start snarling back and it's always worked up until now.

One question though. If a dog does attack you what's the best course of action? Fight back, run or lie still?

In reply to Removed User:

Should the title of this thread not be

"Inconsiderate owners of dogs"

?

Ah. A good addition to the debate.

I've decided that as a last resort, no dog will like a kick aimed squarely at the jaw or in the case of a dog on it's back legs with paws on your shoulders, its knackers.

In reply to Eric the Red:

Oh, good grief, keep your girlfriend indoors- looks like she can't cope with being outside in the country!

Sxx

Thanks Sarah G.

As someone who puts foxhunting on your list of interests I assume you are one of this militant country folks who breed hundreds of dogs for the purpose of killing.

I will therefore ignore everything you say.

In reply to Sarah G: Well said Sarah. x

In reply to Eric the Red: Sarah is great and spot on with her last email! kepp your girlfriend in doors and see how she likes t when people walk past her with a stick.....what is she .....(whimp by the sounds) !

If I'd wanted people to slag off my girlfriend I'd have asked for it.

There's been a lot of useful stuff said on here so can you keep your bitchy comments to yourselves and f*ck off.

In reply to Jilly Riley: Troll - it never ceases to amaze the number of new profiles that simply pop up to post on one thread.

Judging by the gushing compliments to Sarah G I would not be suppriesed if.....

In reply to Eric the Red: Whats the matter....dog got your tongue?

In reply to IainM: Excuse me but me and Sarah are work colleagues! she happened to mention this site to me, and how over the top his girlfriend is acting over a dog! I suggest you keep your comments to yourself, until you get your facts straight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In reply to Jilly Riley: What fact did I get bent?

In reply to Jilly Riley:

Calm down it is only a forum love. Stop acting over the top.

If you want to avoid confusion - post a profile.

In reply to anyone
Advise on dealing with a dog attack.

I used to work at a kenels breeding german shepards and japanese akitas (both large breeds) the owner told me a way to kill a dog if it went crazy and tried to kill me. Basically take hold of the dogs front legs near the paws, pulls the legs outwards hard this will dislocate the front legs in a way that will cause damage within the chest area thus killing the dog quickly.

I have no idea if this works as i was never attacked by any of the dogs.

In reply to doz generale:

Excllent tip, got any recipes for the recently deceased fido, shame to waste it.?

In reply to Eric the Red:
I am quite scared of doggies. They always attack me even when theyre owner says they are nice doggies.
My boyfriend doesnt under stand why I am nervous to have an unleashed, strange dog near me, I wouldnt be bothered if it was behind a fence. But i emphasize with your GF, I couldnt cope with facing up to more than one dog at a time.

In reply to Eric the Red: I understand both sides - I grew up being scared stiff of dogs and now I own one. There are things that both sides can do - I'm still very wary of certain dogs but I now understand them alot more and have learnt to realise that they read minute body language. You normally find people who are scared stare back at the dog - we think we are watching their every move - they think we are challenging them and being as agressive, and they can tell when you are scared. Dogs barking agressively when you pass their houses are telling you to go away and of course you do, so they repeat this for the next person because it works - still scary mind you, but there is not much you can do if they are in their gardens! However, it is a dog owners responsibility to keep your dog under control so the gate should have been shut. Maybe try getting your girlfriend to get to know a few friendly dogs to give her a bit more confidence around them, this certainly worked with a friend of mine, he still won't stroke my dog but at least he no longer takes detours or moves away when they are together and I have seen it has helped him with dealing with other dogs he comes across on walks.

In reply to AnnaD:
Dogs are weird .I have no interest in them at all but they seem to like me . Always very friendly .Now we've got a dog at home I seem to be the only one that it obeys . Very odd .

In reply to Postmanpat: Do you have a fairly deep voice by any chance? Dogs have very sensitive hearing at the higher end of the scale and find deep, soft voices more relaxing.

In reply to DaveC at Work:
Er,yes .Maybe that's it !

In reply to DaveC at Work:

advise for walkers in fear of dogs.
carry a stereo playing barry white tunes.

In reply to Eric the Red:
Why winge about her then in your original post?

Asking for it, mate.

As for bitching...listen to yourself sometime....as for useful comments...keep your gf indoors. Or at least don't expect everyone else to make her personal environment, in this case the course of your walk, nice and fluffy. She sounds like she really does have some sort of a problem that could do with addressing (apart fom being your gf of course). For her own sake, so she can go out without having to wonder and worry about coming across a barking dog, it would be a good idea, as another poster has said, for her to deal with this fear. It is only going to get worse.

The countryside is for life....not just for ramblers.

Sxx

In reply to John Rushby:
Local Chinese Takeaway?
Sxx

In reply to Sarah G:

Sorry, where did I whinge about her?



Clearly you don't understand useful.


Clearly in your attempts to be stupid you've neglected to read anything I've written and have decided to personally insult two people you've never met.


Aha. You are a militant countryside campaigner who thinks they own the "country." For your information, I have lived in the same place all my life apart from my time in London at university. My girlfriend has also always lived in a rural area. We just like to walk around, if that makes us ramblers then everyone is a rambler. Do you have a barber, green wellies and a flat cap?

You are clearly one of the inconsiderate dog owners that this thread is about. So wrapped up in your life you fail to notice anyone elses.

In reply to Eric the Red:
Careful, son. All this jumping to conclusions.

Making a good job of "ignoring everying I say" aren't you?

Tch.

Go home.

Stay there.

Sxx

OK. I'm going to say this real slow.

1) Both my girlfriend and I have met dogs before. Yes. I know it's hard to believe but Sunday was also not the first time I've ever heard a dog bark.

2) Neither I nor my girlfriend have a problem with dogs. Now out of you and I, I reckon I know us best so you'll have to trust me.

3) The dog I'm complaining about was not just barking and I found it intimidating, more so than any other dog I've ever met or even been chased by.

Are you still with me?

Good. Now lots of people have told me what I could do and lots of people have given me a dog owners' perspective. This thread was finished before you started slating both my girlfriend and I.

You clearly wanted to start an argument. Now, with my new found knowledge I've discovered that dogs are more aggressive behind fences. I reckon that in this case, this message board is acting as a kind of cyber fence.....

Ah the penny drops, now I know why you're siding with the dogs. Tell me do you have a specially adapted keyboard for those paws or do you type with your snout?

In reply to Eric the Red:

well said. Maybe you could feed some soft cute cuddly doggy toys to your grossly misrepresented alsation and see what it does behind its fence
p

In reply to Eric the Red:
Doing a great job of ignoring me, ain't he?

Sxx

Sorry? Who are you asking that question? Was that a howl? Are you expecting reinforcements from your pack?

Forgive me if I've allowed my blood to boil. Changing one's mind is not the sole perogative of the female. Or should I say bitch?

In reply to Eric the Red:

dont get so catty Eric, she might chase you
p

In reply to Eric the Red:
Pot calling kettle, come in kettle......

Why are you so upset? Not liking being wrong, are you?

Oh by the way, you're still doing a grand job of ignoring me.

WOOF!

Sxx

In reply to Hotbad Peteel:

No chance. Don't like cats, predictably!

Sxx

<yawn>

In reply to Eric the Red: So how is your whimp of a girlfriend doing? ............. woooooooffff !

In reply to Eric the Red:

You're obviously right, you should be able to walk in public without fear of attack even if it is (like most fear) an involuntary resposne. Switch of your pooter and have a brew, leave the bint to her own devices.

In reply to Enoch Root: bunch of PUSSSSSSYS! The lot of ya! grow up for god sake....it was only a dog behing fence jesus! i could understand if it was running at ya! pull ya sel together man!

In reply to j xx:

I would be jailed for holding an unloaded gun to your head even though it is utterly harmless. Can you not see why or are you too busy licking your arse?

In reply to Eric the Red:

Wouldn't worry mate, you are getting a hard time from a grown woman who has a picure taken with soft toys.

In reply to Jilly:

Do you work in the NHS? i hope your not in any sort of caring role you don't sound very nice.

In reply to doz generale:

trust me, NHS back offices are full of fat, charmless, bitter women with cuddly toys strapped to their workstations. Bet there's a picture of David Brent somewhere on the office wall.

In reply to Enoch Root:

Which of the two rides the motorbike and which one sits in the side car?

In reply to Enoch Root:


because someone else would have sneakily loaded it?

Have to admit my opinion of the NHS is dropping rapidly.

In reply to Eric the Red: thought of carrying a pot of chilli powder when running??

In reply to John Rushby:

I would stick the fatter one in the sidecar for ballast and for obvious aerodynamic reasons.

In reply to John Rushby:
God, he's so easy to miff, too, isn't he?

Sxx

In reply to Sarah G:

http://www.fexw.co.uk/default.aspx?tabid=665&forumid=30&postid=7362...

It's a bit grisley.

Fex.

In reply to Fex Wazner:
I'm sure that makes Eric the Pink feel much better!

Sxx

In reply to Postmanpat:
There were a lot of dogs at Stanage last night and none attacked me!!

In reply to AnnaD:

thats because theres no fences
p

In reply to Eric the Red:

>Is there anything I can do about these dogs and their inconsiderate owners?

Shoot them. And then have the dogs put down.

As a broad generalisation dog owners are arseholes. I can't recall meeting one who had the slightest consideration.

jcm

In reply to Anonymous: well dog's probably dont like you cos you stink upsets them.

After you flounced out of a club once in a childish tiff over building showers at the hut.

I can see your inteligence doesn't from the tV to the internet.

xxB

In reply to Batfink:

Clearly you have the advantage of me. Let's be fair, though, I think my relationship with the London Mountaineering Club had pretty much run its course once I started climbing harder than VS.

Mind you if dogs hate me why would they shit on the pavement where anyone can tread in it?

jcm

In reply to Eric the Red: i dont know why people keep dogs. All they do is shit, and their shit really stinks. Next time you see a big dog turd have a good smell of it, they are truly minging. Kill all dogs.

In reply to Removed User:

Bless.