/ Divided Years repeated
would love to see some pics of his ascent. hope someone got some. it is the most stunning line...
hard f8b would make it the same (or harder) than equilibrium which gets e10 (still?)
Interestingly Birkett rated Breathless on Great Gable as F8a+ and made no change in the grade, but his own Welcome to the cruel World on Scafell is said to be F8b+ and 'only' E9 7a. Obvioulsy WTTCW is better protected, but by the sounds of things, so is Divided Years.
However, grading isn't an exact science and we'd all do well to remember that John Dunne climbed Divided years 10yrs (?) ago and it was as awesome achievement then as it is for Dave Birkett to repeat it recently.
Theres been plenty of attempts on divided years by all 'the top names' for no one to actually have done it yet. The article says the crux is really bouldery and run out so I guess you can go for a bit of a long whipper. It didn't say secifically whether Dave B had taken some falls off the crux or not. I guess that being a 2 pitch route were talking about a stamina fest rather than absurdly hard climbing we normally get in famous uk high grades (I know its in ireland)
interestingly though, the article says that DY has slopey holds. Breathless was meant to be a crimpy problem which suited Dave Birkett better than JD. Jds a bit good on slopers
I'm trying hard to imagine Mr Birkett up all night, crying into his pillow because he's not accepted by the Sheffield Mafia.
>Theres been plenty of attempts on divided years by all 'the top names' for no one to actually have done it yet
Really? I met one 'top name' once who was reported widely to have been on it. He told me he went over for a long weekend climbing with his girlfriend, talked about abbing down DY for a look, it rained all weekend and he never got anywhere nearer the route than a pub in Dublin. I rather suspect other 'attempts' were more of the same.
Great to hear though. Good on DB.
Must have missed him repeating Breathless. So which E10 will be repeated next? Blind Vision, Equilibrium, Dr Doolittle or Rewind? Or have I missed a repeat?
I'm still backing Rewind to be the last!
I went down to have a look at Indian Face, but never left the pub. Will I be a "top name" as well?
PS John done well, I wonder how long it will take for the 3rd ascent?
Sounds much like my attempt.
I looked at it once.
From about 400 yards away.
Then I thought 'sod it' and did some Hard Severes on Lower Cove instead ;-)
> Must have missed him repeating Breathless. So which E10 will be repeated next? Blind Vision, Equilibrium, Dr Doolittle or Rewind? Or have I missed a repeat?
> I'm still backing Rewind to be the last!
Equilibrium by Gresham (and Pearson?).
To be fair to Dunney...he has a mega high first ascent list that has outlasted his peers...including Moffat, Moon, Redhead and I would also include the venerable Dawes...
He has climbed most types of rock eg, sports at Malham, Trad in the Lakes and death routes on grit..
And we're now talking about 2nd ascents of John's route's 10 years on.....
Total respect to JD....Just try repeating his list of top end climbs.....Phew..
there is also
Question Mark E10 7a Carn Gowla
FA Mark Edwards
Rpt Ken Palmer (Disputed Grade)
High Fidelity 8c+ E11?? Caley (is it a boulder problem?)
FA Steve Dunning
Rpt Ben Moon
's a high ball boulder problem
> there is also
> Question Mark E10 7a Carn Gowla
> FA Mark Edwards
> Rpt Ken Palmer (Disputed Grade)
Wouldn't believe an article that gets the location wrong, either. (It's at Cribba Head).
Ohhh... I love these good ole' classic "who's the best?" arguments - this is what Rocktalk started like before we got on to Palestinian politics and favourite biscuits... ;-)
I think there can be little argument about Dunne being Britain's best rock climber of the 1980-90s. But people always compare him to Moon and Moffat. Why? Exceedingly good boulders and sport climbers but not really comparable in terms of Trad climbing. Even Dawes, with the obvious exception of the Indian Face and the Quarryman, was basically a grit specialist.
In terms of hard routes, dangerous routes and "prolific-ness" (if that is a real word) I think the people he should be compared to the unsung heros of UK climbing like John Arran (with an Alpine rock/big wall record to rival anyone in the UK and most outside of it) , Martin Crocker (many repeats of Total Eclipse? I think not), Nick Dixon (why isn't Face Mecca celebarated in the way that the Indian Face is?).
But as to the new king of UK climbing - Birkett or Macleod? Macleod seems to be having the problem that Dunne had for years - that no one can be arsed to repeat his hard routes.
yeah - I reckon it's a highball too.
BTW: I'm sure I remember seeing a photo somewhere (in his book?) of Ron peeling off the great flake while soloing it, and from my shoddy recollection of that boulder I reckon he was on the top section which would make it near the height of the crux (top) of HF. Presumably the Ron pic was without a mat.
In reply to Peter Walker:
You should let the planetfear guys know.
To be fair to them it does say the list is comprised of all manner of best guesses etc.
It's cool they are trying to put together this record though. The table recording dates of each new trad grade appearing is interesting.
> Even Dawes, with the obvious exception of the Indian Face and the Quarryman, was basically a grit specialist.
You seem to be forgetting his routes on Strone Ulladale.
His big routes were all multi pitch epics.
N Wales Volcanic, Slate, Lewisian Gneiss, and Grit hardly makes him a one trick pony.
See now Ron was is and always shall be "the Man"
In reply to TobyA
True Jonny did a lot of stuff on grit, but he also did quite a bit of stuff on slate too. . .
As for awsome climbers the Nadin, you neglected to mention him as a trad, bolt and indoor man one of the best in the world at the time (well he was world champion)
But I take your point about the likes of John Arran, I mean what a climber from E10 to horrendous E6 on sight ground up big wall epics. Still these days I think it's about publicising yourself well. The likes of the 2 Daves are more interested in cragging than photo on cover of mag. And fair play to 'em coz tha's where it counts
(nobody has mentioned Neil Gresh now there's a hard boy)
What planet are you on? I think Birkett is well respected everywhere for putting the time and effort in, getting these things done and not hyping the f out of it.
From what I've heard on the grapevine, only a couple of 'top names' had a decent go on a rope on Divided Years and they reckoned "8a+ and safe". They got a bit of a slating for not finishing off the job, but it sounds as though their assessment wasn't far off the mark. Remember, Dunney gave it "8c+".
These days? Where you around in the 80's? Some climbers even had professional managers then as well as over-inflated grades.
elaborate, Don't recall Nadin having a pro manager, nor big Ron, nor the Dawes (but I am prepared to be corrected)
I was going to keep away from this thread before it got into a JD slanging match. JD gave total eclipse 8c+ but not Divided Years as far as I know. Dave Birkett said it felt like hard f8b so alot harder than easy f8a+ which would give it about e8 judging by some of the grades you see on grit routes.
Have to go kwith Hotbad here, don't think the big man claimed 8c+ for it. And who are we talking about "on the grapevine" who's actually been on it and tried the route and said easy 8a+ but not done it?
In reply to ally smith:
I read that as a tongue-in-cheek comment... Somebody please tell me that ally wasn't being serious!
To clear up any confusion:
John Dunne originally said that Divided Years was worth 8c, to quote from a magazine at the time, "John thought the route would be a pumpy 8c on a top rope and combined with the seriousness, justifies the E10 grade." At the time, from the same article, "the upper arete has a dearth of protection," also, "a fall would be potentially fatal".
Compare with the Birketts comments, saying the route was 8b, with "protection literally all over it", huge falls hitting "nothing but air."
hard f8b would still get it near to e10 so that'll do me. seeya all on a different thread, and well done Dave Birkett, Judging by the onsights claimed on climbonline hes the best trad onsighter in the country at the moment if not the world
Why would 8b get it near E10? Well protected 8b is E8. Even well protected 8b+ is in theory E8. To get to E10 it would need to be poorly protected. John justified E10 by saying it was 8c, with death falls. Now re-read Dave's comments.
Those two don't seem to make sense together...
Yes they do. Just cos it's littered with gear doesn't mean that you waste energy clipping/placing it all if there's no need. Just run it out if it's safe. Some people take massive lobs off sport routes by skipping clips to save energy, it doesn't mean that the bolt's aren't there.
> elaborate, Don't recall Nadin having a pro manager, nor big Ron, nor the Dawes (but I am prepared to be corrected)
Dunne had a manager, whose name escapes me at the moment. He told to Dunney to bolt the New Statesman in order to get maximum publicity, I think John ditched him after hearing that!
And rightly so. But I still say that it's more about publicity than anything else these days. I heard that whilst Francois Legrand was on Kalymnos he "improved" for which you can read drilled out a mono so that he could get the 1st ascent and keep his name riding high with the sponsors. Daves B and Mac like I said seem more interested in craggin than headlines
The thing is these days people are not constantly pushing the grades as happened in the 1980’s/early 1990’s. The training revolution that began in the 70’s with Livesey and Fawcett and burgeoned with the ‘power revolution’ of the 1980’s meant that standards were constantly increasing so people were always pushing the grade and overgrading things, either deliberately or by mistake, for publicity.
E9 doesn’t raise any eyebrows now, not like it did in the late 1980’s, so the publicity just aint there anymore. Someone would have to climb E11/12 for the same impact as a route such as the Indian Face achieved in 1986.
> And rightly so. But I still say that it's more about publicity than anything else these days. I heard that whilst Francois Legrand was on Kalymnos he "improved" for which you can read drilled out a mono so that he could get the 1st ascent and keep his name riding high with the sponsors.
That has been going on for years.
Maybe we're just all used to it due to overload in the media. I remember equilibrium as the 1st E10 on grit raising a few headlines as did slingshot. Though notably Dr. Doolittle didn't so much. Maybe coz John is a quieter chap
#I know but that doesn't mean it should be any more acceptable
That's a relief, I thought for a while there that we were going to have a JD-related thread without someone anonymously slagging him off. Well done for keeping the tradition going.
> #I know but that doesn't mean it should be any more acceptable
Who said it ever was?
True but I think that "enthusiastic cleaning" has always been acceptable but chipping and drilling has not. that said it still goes on and I suppose we are all to blame for not making enough of a fuss about it.
Grades who cares, great climbing....
No its not.
Its at Carn Vellan.
Might be worth sending a recorrection of your correction into the Planetfear authors.
So I don't think I'll be sending a recorrection to the correction I didn't send.
> True but I think that "enthusiastic cleaning" has always been acceptable but chipping and drilling has not. that said it still goes on and I suppose we are all to blame for not making enough of a fuss about it.
Speak for yourself. Cleaning pockets of crozzles can be defined as "enthusiastic cleaning".
I think John Dunne is an amazing climber. I recently read he was getting into Alpine and Winter stuff. I'd like to see John repeat Dave MacLeod's winter ascent of the Hurting on Fiacaill buttress which gets E4 6a in summer! What is it, Scottish XI?
Also Dave has recently put up a new E8 on the Comb on the Ben and has his eye on it as a future winter line!
If he does it, and based on his performance in Sneachda there's no reason to doubt it, will he be accepted as the best alrounder in the uk right now?
True but drilling it out isn't. It's a tricky line to walk. Pete Livesey's infamous "cleaning" of DownHill Racer didn't really lead to him being villified
It would be intersting to see some of the top Euro climbers having a go. Although not a sport route it seems relatively safe for a very hard trad route. These routes deserve more ascents, otherwise top end British (Isles) trad climbing remains a backwater on the international scene. IMHO it would be good for world climbing as a whole if these achievments gained international recognition.
> True but drilling it out isn't. It's a tricky line to walk. Pete Livesey's infamous "cleaning" of DownHill Racer didn't really lead to him being villified
Pete Liversausage didn't chip Downhill Racer.........that was one of those Peakies.
He cooked chips, quite good ones.
lol mick you need help
> lol mick you need help
Really.....I think you may find that I interviewed PL for an article all about chipping.
My apologies. I saw Mark Edwards, and E10, knew the only one was Rewind, and assumed the "question mark" was because they didn't know its name - they seem to have got enough else wrong with the description that I figured it was a fair assumption.
Are PF the only people who think QM is E10 then?
I was giggling about liversausage
Mind you, KP does have a reputation as quite a harsh grader..... ;-)
> It would be intersting to see some of the top Euro climbers having a go. Although not a sport route it seems relatively safe for a very hard trad route.
It would be, but it's unlikely to happen. Why would they bother? there's stacks of hard routes on the continent, and 8b on good gear wouldn't be thought of as significant - there's lots of them in the alps, many even more remote, at altitude, with worse rock.
Just watched the Big Issue for the first time in years. It says the Divided Years wall is coated in possible E7s. Have they now been done?
Also has the line at Ilkley left of the New Statesman been led which John tries to top-rope at the end of the film?
Not to mention all the chossy death routes he did with Paul Pritchard on Anglesey.
Who's the alternative? You?
Steve Crowe has an interesting account...
"Steve Crowe of Climbonline.co.uk accompanied Dave Birkett to Ireland recently where he belayed and photographed Dave on his repeat of Divided Years. Steve has a short personal account of the climbing on Divided Years and some photos at Climbonline. More of Steve's photos will be published in the October issue of Climber Magazine out early September."
which gives a good sense of scale to the affair. (Is that a top-rope?)
Whats the story as the Steve Crowe article is very vague?
Jeesypeeps! It actually looks more like an ab / jug line for a photographer than a toprope. Besides, where's the moral outrage coming from? Not as if DB can reach it...
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