UKC

as the title says, i had a nasty surprise clipping the third bolt of a sport route yesterday. I looked down to see the second quickdraw twist from facing right to facing left and the movement of pulling up the rope to clip the third made a loop and the unclipped the second in one simple movement!

I'm pleased i didn't panic and managed to clip the third ok and finish the route, but still, gave me a fright.

I can only conclude that as the draw was twisted back on its self the rope was effectively came out the wrong way.

In reply to philip king:

Hmmmm ... Death Clip ??

In reply to philip king: back clipping... more dangerous than people take credit for!

In reply to philip king:

Useful to remind people of the potential dangers and the need for careful clipping (including which way the gate faces).

In reply to BigMac: back clipping, is this z clipping? if so this wasn't the cause, but i'm well aware that it occurs, although normally when the bolts are closely spaced, e.g. indoors

In reply to philip king:

no. z clipping is different to back clipping.

z clip is when you clip two QDs in the wrong order.

back clipping is when you clip a QD the wrong way.

In reply to JonC: thanks for that, its good to get the terminology correct.

i think i clipped correctly, but due to the rotation of the draw did it became back clipped, is this possible or did i just make a mistake?

It's possible to think you've clipped ok, but the tape on the webbing on the quickdraw can be twisted through 180 degrees so you are in fact backclipped if it untwists.

In reply to philip king:

Here's a few links for clarification

http://www.climerware.com/unclip.shtml

http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/Unclip.htm

In reply to philip king:


In that sense you didn't clip correctly then. Always make sure the QD isn't twisted in some way so as it wants to untwist once you've clipped it. This is one problem with the new light floppy spectra QDs. I can see why many keen sports climbers keep with the stiff nylon sewn through design as they can't twist accidently.

In reply to luke_brown:

I've noticed that a twist in the thinner slings is much easier to achieve and not notice. Happened to me yesterday. One of the reasons I prefer to use my older thicker draws!

In reply to philip king: Back clipping is when you clip the rope in the front and out the back so as the q/d sits on the wall/rock the rope is running out the back of the quickdraw and the event of a fall or as you did pull on the rope would cause it to either twist and unclip or allow the rope to fall over the gate and unclip itself.

a z clip is where you pull the rope from below your last clipped q/d and clip it into the one above you, easy mistake to make if you tie long knotsor have an excessive amoutnt of rope tied as a stopper or you are pulling the rope blindly from below. The consequence is you will fall the distance to your last clipped q/d and whatever rope/slack there is in the system agin. if this happens the safets thing to do is unclip the lower q/d not the top q/d and then clip the right end of the rope back into the right bit of rope.

if any of that makes any sense!

In reply to TobyA: correct, it seems i did not clip correctly. i either clipped a twisted draw, unlikely as i would hope to notice this, or i induced a twist in the draw and made it back clip.

either way its user error.

first time thats happened and hopefully the last, thanks for the help guys

In reply to philip king:

No it isn't possible, for a front cliped QD to become back cliped the back bar of the krab would have to pass through the rope. The QD was probably front cliped with a twist or half twist that produced a rotation in the QD that tried to force the gate through the rope thus uncliping it. Could happen with both front and back clips but the twist would need to be in the opposite sense.

In reply to davidwright: interesting, i will have to investigate this at the wall tonight

In reply to davidwright:

The other possibility, is the rope is sufficiently twisted up that there is a small loop in the rope, and when the rope is pulled, the small loop of rope jams up against the gate, and unclips itself.

In reply to philip king: Quickdraws aren't in the habit of 'Twisting' round by themselves. Back-clipping, death clipping whatever you want to call it is caused by one factor and one factor alone, the person who clipped the rope.

To me it sounds more like the rope wasn't correctly clipped in the first place, occassionally the gate closes, trapping the rope half in half out of the quickdraw.

Backclipping is usually only a problem when you fall, causing the tensioned rope to open the gate, rather than you pulling the rope up.

Good knowledge not to panic though.