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On short climbs that still ideally require double rope technique, I've heard some people tie into the middle of a half rope (or single for that matter) rather than taking two ropes to the crag.
Probably a stupid question but whats the best way to do this. Obviously you could tie a figure of eight and attach with a screwgate but wasnt sure if this is a good / safe option - due to the "less components in the system the better rule".
Any tips or thoughts?
Probably a stupid question but whats the best way to do this. Obviously you could tie a figure of eight and attach with a screwgate but wasnt sure if this is a good / safe option - due to the "less components in the system the better rule".
Any tips or thoughts?
In reply to bendurance: well unless you fancy threading half a roope through a knot id go with the krab
In reply to bendurance: Larks foot the end loop through the hard points of your harness. Aka the Chris Tan Death Knot.
In reply to bendurance:
Figure of 8 into krab is still the preferred option, I think (unless I've got out of touch!)
To tie in directly the Alpine/Butterfly knot must still be the preferred option, though it's quite difficult to tie, and takes a lot of learning.
Figure of 8 into krab is still the preferred option, I think (unless I've got out of touch!)
To tie in directly the Alpine/Butterfly knot must still be the preferred option, though it's quite difficult to tie, and takes a lot of learning.
In reply to bendurance:
I just tie a FOE and clip a krab to it. If you're using half ropes you could do a rethreaded figure of eight but it's bulky. AFAIK the only risk with clipping in is that you could unscrew the krab while climbing and then fall in a way that opens the gate.
I just tie a FOE and clip a krab to it. If you're using half ropes you could do a rethreaded figure of eight but it's bulky. AFAIK the only risk with clipping in is that you could unscrew the krab while climbing and then fall in a way that opens the gate.
In reply to bendurance: Bowline in the bight figure of 8 in the bight but i use figure 8 with screw gate.
Enjoy
Dave B
Enjoy
Dave B
In reply to bendurance:
Are you saying that you double up a half rope on a short route and use it as if it was a single rope?
If that is the case then treat both ends as one rope. Simply tie in as normal. The not may be twice as thick but it works perfectly well.
Personally I would rather tie into my harness with either a figure eight or bow line than attach the rope to a crab first. But horses for coarses.
Are you saying that you double up a half rope on a short route and use it as if it was a single rope?
If that is the case then treat both ends as one rope. Simply tie in as normal. The not may be twice as thick but it works perfectly well.
Personally I would rather tie into my harness with either a figure eight or bow line than attach the rope to a crab first. But horses for coarses.
In reply to The Lemming: I was assuming that the leader ties in in the manner you state and the OP wanted options for the 2nd to tie in?
Yes I guess getting the second to tie into the middle would be safest (for the lead anyway).
Cheers.
Cheers.
In reply to bendurance:
leader ties into 2 ends as if 2 ropes,
2nd can do fo8 and krab
(or i sometimes use bowline with a V. GOOD stopper. bulky bit ok for 2nding)
leader ties into 2 ends as if 2 ropes,
2nd can do fo8 and krab
(or i sometimes use bowline with a V. GOOD stopper. bulky bit ok for 2nding)
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Eh? It's one of the easiest knots to tie surely? Two twists on a bight, wrap round and tuck through.
Personally I'd got with the lark's foot tied using the step through method.
> (In reply to bendurance)
> To tie in directly the Alpine/Butterfly knot must still be the preferred option, though it's quite difficult to tie, and takes a lot of learning.
Eh? It's one of the easiest knots to tie surely? Two twists on a bight, wrap round and tuck through.
Personally I'd got with the lark's foot tied using the step through method.
In reply to bendurance: Same question asked lask month:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=222093&v=1#3262889
A larks foot is not the best knot to use, although probably the easiest. Using a karabiner is just lazy, at least two would make it safer.
To tie a bowline in the bight, thread the doubled end of the rope through your harness and start to tie a bowline as normal. As the rabbit comes up the hole, take that loop over your head and step through it. As easy to tie as a larks foot but safer.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=222093&v=1#3262889
A larks foot is not the best knot to use, although probably the easiest. Using a karabiner is just lazy, at least two would make it safer.
To tie a bowline in the bight, thread the doubled end of the rope through your harness and start to tie a bowline as normal. As the rabbit comes up the hole, take that loop over your head and step through it. As easy to tie as a larks foot but safer.
In reply to bendurance:
Unless I'm really missing the point, this is what I'd do...
The leader ties in to the two ends of the rope - just as you'd tie into two separate ropes - ie two separate fig 8s.
The second then ties into the middle of the ropes. Because they're not going to take a leader fall, it's rather less critical how they tie on. If it's me, I tend to go for one big rethreaded fig 8 (ie treating the two ropes as one). But other ways, such as a fig 8 clipped in with a screwgate, should be fine for the second. Plenty of other options if you know more knots!
Unless I'm really missing the point, this is what I'd do...
The leader ties in to the two ends of the rope - just as you'd tie into two separate ropes - ie two separate fig 8s.
The second then ties into the middle of the ropes. Because they're not going to take a leader fall, it's rather less critical how they tie on. If it's me, I tend to go for one big rethreaded fig 8 (ie treating the two ropes as one). But other ways, such as a fig 8 clipped in with a screwgate, should be fine for the second. Plenty of other options if you know more knots!
In reply to Jonathan T:
In reply to Jonathan T:
I feel a bowline on a bight is best as well and this is what I use when in this situation.
Using one rope also saves having to pull a lot of rope at the top of the pitch which is nice.
mehmet
In reply to Jonathan T:
I feel a bowline on a bight is best as well and this is what I use when in this situation.
Using one rope also saves having to pull a lot of rope at the top of the pitch which is nice.
mehmet
In reply to bendurance:
alpine butterfly is designed for 3 way pull, so, perfect for this, and really easy to tie, quicker than fig 8 or bowline IMHO
alpine butterfly is designed for 3 way pull, so, perfect for this, and really easy to tie, quicker than fig 8 or bowline IMHO
In reply to bendurance:
Rethreaded overhand knot, then clip the end of the rethreaded loop into a screwgate.
Rethreaded overhand knot, then clip the end of the rethreaded loop into a screwgate.
In reply to PJay: Why do you need a knot to accomodate a three way pull on the rope in this situation?
In reply to bendurance:
Personally I use a bowline tied directly to the harness using the bite formed at the middle of the rope and avoid using a krab when leading. Other people lead on the two ends of the rope as they normally would for double ropes (fig 8, bowline) and the second can use a krab as you described.
Personally I use a bowline tied directly to the harness using the bite formed at the middle of the rope and avoid using a krab when leading. Other people lead on the two ends of the rope as they normally would for double ropes (fig 8, bowline) and the second can use a krab as you described.
In reply to bendurance: I would tie in using both ends as if they were 2 ropes, leaving a loop on the ground. I've yet to have anyone tell me this is stupid and if you're lucky (emergency only) you can still do a full (half) length lower off if you can get secure enough to allow your 2nd to re-thread the belay device after you've untied one of the ends.
Apart from the lack of easy lower off option this is the same as using 2 ropes on short climbs. Just do your maths well on height of the climb in case you need to lower off...
Apart from the lack of easy lower off option this is the same as using 2 ropes on short climbs. Just do your maths well on height of the climb in case you need to lower off...
In reply to Nigel Modern:
I tie into both ends on escapable hard (for me) leads but on unknown or easy terrain I tie in the middle, because:
1) you can always pull an end up and retie to gain extra rope if required.
2) It takes the twists out of the rope.
3) It gives you an easier escape on rope locks or other problems (like pulling through and passing gear up that you left in your rucksack by mistake!).
Tieing onto the loop, I re-thread to give a doubled up figure 8: the bulk is rarely a problem for me. On crags (like grit) once tied in my partner and I normally stay that way and take on coils to save time and effort on consecutive climbs.
As for other knots: Bowline on the bight is fine, Alpine butterfly is fine (albeit complex and I dont really see the point: this is ideal for a climber in the middle of a rope between a leader and a second second); Chris Tan death knot is for Chris Tan (only joking: fine in most circumstances); I don't like and wouldn't advise clipping into a crab if it might risk cross-loading in a lead-fall.
I tie into both ends on escapable hard (for me) leads but on unknown or easy terrain I tie in the middle, because:
1) you can always pull an end up and retie to gain extra rope if required.
2) It takes the twists out of the rope.
3) It gives you an easier escape on rope locks or other problems (like pulling through and passing gear up that you left in your rucksack by mistake!).
Tieing onto the loop, I re-thread to give a doubled up figure 8: the bulk is rarely a problem for me. On crags (like grit) once tied in my partner and I normally stay that way and take on coils to save time and effort on consecutive climbs.
As for other knots: Bowline on the bight is fine, Alpine butterfly is fine (albeit complex and I dont really see the point: this is ideal for a climber in the middle of a rope between a leader and a second second); Chris Tan death knot is for Chris Tan (only joking: fine in most circumstances); I don't like and wouldn't advise clipping into a crab if it might risk cross-loading in a lead-fall.
In reply to Offwidth: Thanks for that...makes sense. Re-threaded figure 8 is the one in the books and your explanation probably explains why, NM
In reply to bendurance:
I usually tie a bowline with the middle of the rope, then step through the loop that you'd tie the stopper knot in. Not need for a stopper this way, so the bulk of the know is not an issue.
For seconding I'd be happy clipping in, but not for leading.
I usually tie a bowline with the middle of the rope, then step through the loop that you'd tie the stopper knot in. Not need for a stopper this way, so the bulk of the know is not an issue.
For seconding I'd be happy clipping in, but not for leading.
In reply to bendurance: Thanks all, some v.good advice.
In reply to bendurance: Have just tried all these options (much to my non-climbing housemates amusement) and the bowline on the bite with the loop passed over the head seems to be a good tidy option. Fo8 on the bite looks ok too if bulk and extra rope length isnt a worry. Therefore doesnt seem to be any need to involve krabs.
In reply to bendurance: alpine butterfly????????????????????????
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
To tie in directly the Alpine/Butterfly knot must still be the preferred option, though it's quite difficult to tie, and takes a lot of learning.
I dont agree with the latter part of this statement the alpine butterfly is easy enough to tie and can be learnt as quick as any other climbing knot. With the exception being the overhand knot.
To tie in directly the Alpine/Butterfly knot must still be the preferred option, though it's quite difficult to tie, and takes a lot of learning.
I dont agree with the latter part of this statement the alpine butterfly is easy enough to tie and can be learnt as quick as any other climbing knot. With the exception being the overhand knot.
In reply to bendurance:
http://www.abc-of-rockclimbing.com/climbing-knots/alpine-butterfly.asp
Nice little animation
http://www.abc-of-rockclimbing.com/climbing-knots/alpine-butterfly.asp
Nice little animation
In reply to clipskipper:
Can't think why anyone would do anything for a mid-rope tie-in but a fig. of 8 onto a screwgate carabiner. Much the simplest solution, and easiest to get out of too.
"But the use of a krab affects your safety margin." Well, tying in mid-rope affects your safety margin. If you're that worried about the procedure, don't do it at all.
Can't think why anyone would do anything for a mid-rope tie-in but a fig. of 8 onto a screwgate carabiner. Much the simplest solution, and easiest to get out of too.
"But the use of a krab affects your safety margin." Well, tying in mid-rope affects your safety margin. If you're that worried about the procedure, don't do it at all.
In reply to bendurance:
I used a fig 8 on the bight and a screwgate last time.
However, to eliminate cross loading the krab you could use a bowline on the bight and then use the krab clipped to the loop and back to the rope as a stopper
I used a fig 8 on the bight and a screwgate last time.
However, to eliminate cross loading the krab you could use a bowline on the bight and then use the krab clipped to the loop and back to the rope as a stopper
In reply to bendurance:
http://www.cabelas.com/information/cabelasfieldguides/KnotLibraryCampingKno...
what they call the tag end on here, clip it to the right part of the loop on the piccy
http://www.cabelas.com/information/cabelasfieldguides/KnotLibraryCampingKno...
what they call the tag end on here, clip it to the right part of the loop on the piccy
In reply to Offwidth:
Why is cross loading a crab dangerous in this situation. A cross loaded crab is still able to hold roughly 800 kgs. If your that worried just use two crabs back to back, that covers and dangers of the screw gate working loose also..
A rethreaded figure of eight on the blight uses a fair amount of rope up, is hard to check, and I've never found any literature confirming it's safety, although I suspect it is safe enough.
Stevo
Why is cross loading a crab dangerous in this situation. A cross loaded crab is still able to hold roughly 800 kgs. If your that worried just use two crabs back to back, that covers and dangers of the screw gate working loose also..
A rethreaded figure of eight on the blight uses a fair amount of rope up, is hard to check, and I've never found any literature confirming it's safety, although I suspect it is safe enough.
Stevo
In reply to bendurance:
Its quite simple.
Theres no need to tie into the middle of the rope.
Tie into both 'ends' of the rope with a normal re-threaded figure of 8 knot.
The second can also use a re-threaded fig8 or a fig8 with a krab.
> On short climbs that still ideally require double rope technique, I've heard some people tie into the middle of a half rope (or single for that matter) rather than taking two ropes to the crag.
>
>
Its quite simple.
Theres no need to tie into the middle of the rope.
Tie into both 'ends' of the rope with a normal re-threaded figure of 8 knot.
The second can also use a re-threaded fig8 or a fig8 with a krab.
In reply to Ewan Brown:
seconded
> (In reply to bendurance) alpine butterfly????????????????????????
seconded
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Agreed that a cross loaded krab isn't that weak but remember the loads for a leader fall are much higher than for seconding. Also, The bigger danger of using a krab for leading, even a screwgate, is it is not difficult to unscrew and open the gate by rubbing the krab over the rock. Best avoided if possible.
Agreed that a cross loaded krab isn't that weak but remember the loads for a leader fall are much higher than for seconding. Also, The bigger danger of using a krab for leading, even a screwgate, is it is not difficult to unscrew and open the gate by rubbing the krab over the rock. Best avoided if possible.
In reply to Dunkanon:
As you say, the alpine butterfly is dead easy to tie but it can't be used to tie directly into the middle of the rope.
As you say, the alpine butterfly is dead easy to tie but it can't be used to tie directly into the middle of the rope.
In reply to bendurance: I'd go with the bowline on the bight method. The step-through element of the tying sequence is neat!
PS though in terms of escapability from the rope (when you want to, of course!), I'd be happy with fig of 8 tied into two screwgate krabs.
PS though in terms of escapability from the rope (when you want to, of course!), I'd be happy with fig of 8 tied into two screwgate krabs.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I use a 60m rope so the rope 'used up' is usually irrelevant.
"Why is cross loading a crab dangerous in this situation" and "is hard to check, and I've never found any literature confirming it's safety" are just not worth a reply.
I use a 60m rope so the rope 'used up' is usually irrelevant.
"Why is cross loading a crab dangerous in this situation" and "is hard to check, and I've never found any literature confirming it's safety" are just not worth a reply.
In reply to GrahamD:
What's your thinking about not being able to tie in the middle with an alpine butterfly?
This is the recommended knot for moving together in groups, it's better at taking a three way load than a fig 8...
What's your thinking about not being able to tie in the middle with an alpine butterfly?
This is the recommended knot for moving together in groups, it's better at taking a three way load than a fig 8...
In reply to Offwidth:
The usual laugh follows!
> Chris Tan death knot is for Chris Tan (only joking: fine in most circumstances);
You can only give this advice if you add that you will fail your SPA if you use it during an assessment. I use it all the time!
The usual laugh follows!
> I don't like and wouldn't advise clipping into a crab if it might risk cross-loading in a lead-fall.
...but is fine if you are only seconding.
In reply to Marc C:
I guess the sytem I use is partly down to familiarity and the fact I know its safe. My concern with the bowline step through method is on bigger routes where pitch lengths may be innacurate (or if something goes wrong like a rope lock) as it can be harder to escape from on the route. I'm more than used to intermediate belays (hanging if required) when the rope runs out but sometimes convenience or lack of runners means I'd prefer the option of being able to untie the knot. I normally pull up enough rope to solve the problem, tie off a Figure 8 and clip this on my harness and then undo the main knot (if neccesary all this one-handed) and move onwards with the extra slack. On the other end of the rope the same applies: the leader drops a rope, the belayer readjusts the belay and tie in and give the leader the extra rope they need.
It also depends somewhat on the grade: if its easy terrain for me and I know a fall is very unlikely (especially easy winter routes) I might clip in using a locking crab; if its very hard for me I'd be using two ropes!
Although Ive only seen it recentkly and not used it yet the Chris Tan knot (unless it locks up) looks to me to be much easier to adjustment than a bowline (to gain a few metres on one rope if required). If you need a lot of rope, a direct tie in with no step through can again be better.
I guess the sytem I use is partly down to familiarity and the fact I know its safe. My concern with the bowline step through method is on bigger routes where pitch lengths may be innacurate (or if something goes wrong like a rope lock) as it can be harder to escape from on the route. I'm more than used to intermediate belays (hanging if required) when the rope runs out but sometimes convenience or lack of runners means I'd prefer the option of being able to untie the knot. I normally pull up enough rope to solve the problem, tie off a Figure 8 and clip this on my harness and then undo the main knot (if neccesary all this one-handed) and move onwards with the extra slack. On the other end of the rope the same applies: the leader drops a rope, the belayer readjusts the belay and tie in and give the leader the extra rope they need.
It also depends somewhat on the grade: if its easy terrain for me and I know a fall is very unlikely (especially easy winter routes) I might clip in using a locking crab; if its very hard for me I'd be using two ropes!
Although Ive only seen it recentkly and not used it yet the Chris Tan knot (unless it locks up) looks to me to be much easier to adjustment than a bowline (to gain a few metres on one rope if required). If you need a lot of rope, a direct tie in with no step through can again be better.
In reply to Offwidth: Good points. What do I know anyway? Haven't handled a rope since I won (before the op) a medal as part of 'The Black Ram Tuggers' ladies' tug o' war team in the 1982 Shropshire Championship.
In reply to Jon Dittman: I'm not sure why contributers aren't really considering the rethreaded overhand - it was mentioned above - it's a smaller, less bulkier knot than a rethreaded 8 and the load comes onto the knot rather than a krab (the krab doesn't take any loading in a fall, it just secures the loop from the re-woven knot).
I wouldn't lead with a knot *secured* by a krab to my harness as - stated above - there is a risk of cross loading the krab, and the loadings in a fall are greater than those generated by a falling second; but mainly because there is no reason to use a weaker system apart from the fact it uses marginally less rope in tying the knot. I can't see any advantage to using more krabs to make attaching the knot to the harness more secure either, it adds to the weight, faff and F*-up factors.
I wouldn't lead with a knot *secured* by a krab to my harness as - stated above - there is a risk of cross loading the krab, and the loadings in a fall are greater than those generated by a falling second; but mainly because there is no reason to use a weaker system apart from the fact it uses marginally less rope in tying the knot. I can't see any advantage to using more krabs to make attaching the knot to the harness more secure either, it adds to the weight, faff and F*-up factors.
In reply to Marc C:
I have a list of recommendations of what to do when faced with a leopard skin bouldering mat as well if you want :-0
If its an easy problem apply suitable disdain and ignore the offending article. On harder problems pretend its not really there. Etc...
I have a list of recommendations of what to do when faced with a leopard skin bouldering mat as well if you want :-0
If its an easy problem apply suitable disdain and ignore the offending article. On harder problems pretend its not really there. Etc...
In reply to Gary (Vindicta):
When attaching to the middle of a rope as a 3, you use a krab to attach the alpine butterfly to the harness. The butterfly does not tie you in directly. Ideally, you don't want to use a krab in the system when leading.
They are different applications. The Alpine butterfly is the knot of choice when the two sides of the rope go in opposite directions (like to two other people in a line on a glacier) whereas here, we are talking about both ends of the rope hanging together and going back to the same person.
When attaching to the middle of a rope as a 3, you use a krab to attach the alpine butterfly to the harness. The butterfly does not tie you in directly. Ideally, you don't want to use a krab in the system when leading.
They are different applications. The Alpine butterfly is the knot of choice when the two sides of the rope go in opposite directions (like to two other people in a line on a glacier) whereas here, we are talking about both ends of the rope hanging together and going back to the same person.
In reply to Offwidth:
I fail to see why anyone would tie into the middle of the rope for anything except single pitch trad seconding. If you find yourself doing this at any other time I suspect you have not planned the safety aspects of your day very well!
I fail to see why anyone would tie into the middle of the rope for anything except single pitch trad seconding. If you find yourself doing this at any other time I suspect you have not planned the safety aspects of your day very well!
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I suspect you are trolling as what you said is plain nonsense. Some reason on mountains: cuts down on weight when I need to move fast but have a pich or two where half ropes help; makes life easier when climbing with two seconds. On crags I nearly always prefer half ropes but lugging two ropes around on 20m crags when I can use one 60m is a no brainer.
I suspect you are trolling as what you said is plain nonsense. Some reason on mountains: cuts down on weight when I need to move fast but have a pich or two where half ropes help; makes life easier when climbing with two seconds. On crags I nearly always prefer half ropes but lugging two ropes around on 20m crags when I can use one 60m is a no brainer.
In reply to bendurance: the fig 8 know is an "end of rope" knot. some tests have shown it pulls itself apart with dynamic forces(you falling off). It would be better to tie in with an alpine butterfly, or a "middle of rope" knot.
I shall proberly be accused of semantics, however these knots were invented for a reason!!
I shall proberly be accused of semantics, however these knots were invented for a reason!!
In reply to riddle:
actually, a figure of 8 is a pull in two directions knot, and an alpine butterfly is a pull in three directions knot.
A figure of 8 or a bowline are the standard knots to tie onto a rope, either in the middle or at the end, as the pull is only in two directions.
I can't believe this thread is still going, or that there has been any debate about this! Ah well - just goes to show...
actually, a figure of 8 is a pull in two directions knot, and an alpine butterfly is a pull in three directions knot.
A figure of 8 or a bowline are the standard knots to tie onto a rope, either in the middle or at the end, as the pull is only in two directions.
I can't believe this thread is still going, or that there has been any debate about this! Ah well - just goes to show...
In reply to riddle:
Semantics no stupidity maybe: your argument applies when the pull is opposite on each end of the rope not when it is in the same direction.
Semantics no stupidity maybe: your argument applies when the pull is opposite on each end of the rope not when it is in the same direction.
In reply to tlm:
See, leave some people alone for a week or two and they can out anal a scout going for his knots badge.
Now go and get Duncan another glass of wine please, leave the trainee scouts to practice their knots.
How is your semaphore?;
When I was a little wolf cub and you were a brownie,
We always remembered our good turn each day.
First it was your turn, and then it was my turn,
And life was so wonderful and carefree and gay.
Follow me, follow me,
Tonight is the night of the Jamboree.
When I was a little wolf cub and you were a brownie,
We learned all the regulations of which there were lots.
We wandered into the clover, and tried them all over,
And you did your semaphore and I did my knots.
Follow me, follow me,
Tonight is the night of the Jamboree.
When I was a little wolf cub and you were a brownie,
We did everything a wolf cub and brownie should do.
I wanted to be a boy scout so I could salute you
With three fingers vertical instead of just two.
Follow me, follow me,
We'll go to the grotto, and get slightly blotto.
To hell with the motto! Just fo-o-ollow me.
See, leave some people alone for a week or two and they can out anal a scout going for his knots badge.
Now go and get Duncan another glass of wine please, leave the trainee scouts to practice their knots.
How is your semaphore?;
When I was a little wolf cub and you were a brownie,
We always remembered our good turn each day.
First it was your turn, and then it was my turn,
And life was so wonderful and carefree and gay.
Follow me, follow me,
Tonight is the night of the Jamboree.
When I was a little wolf cub and you were a brownie,
We learned all the regulations of which there were lots.
We wandered into the clover, and tried them all over,
And you did your semaphore and I did my knots.
Follow me, follow me,
Tonight is the night of the Jamboree.
When I was a little wolf cub and you were a brownie,
We did everything a wolf cub and brownie should do.
I wanted to be a boy scout so I could salute you
With three fingers vertical instead of just two.
Follow me, follow me,
We'll go to the grotto, and get slightly blotto.
To hell with the motto! Just fo-o-ollow me.
In reply to sutty:
"Weee're brownie guides, we're brownie guides
We're here to lend a hand,
To love our God and serve our queen,
and help our home and lands.
We've Brownie friends,
We've Brownie friends,
In north, south east and west.
We're joined together
In our wish
To try to do our best...."
"Weee're brownie guides, we're brownie guides
We're here to lend a hand,
To love our God and serve our queen,
and help our home and lands.
We've Brownie friends,
We've Brownie friends,
In north, south east and west.
We're joined together
In our wish
To try to do our best...."
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