UKC

Late last night, in an apparent exclusive, UKClimbing.com received the following announcement concerning the production of a new and competing guidebook to the in-preparation Climbers' Club guidebook to Gogarth from Simon Panton of Ground Up, the publishers of the new North Wales Rock guidebook.

Full story in the news at UKClimbing.com... http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Big news indeed, and good news.

Now here's a radical idea:

Why don't the CC work WITH Ground Up on this, i.e. give GU the information they have and discuss the guide throughout the process.

That way, the GU guide would get out quicker, and probably be richer and more informative. The CC would get credit where it's deserved in the guide, they wouldn't have to keep slogging away at a long overdue and seemingly ground-to-a-halt guide and it would avoid the farcical situation of two definitive guides to the area. Win-win situation??

In reply to Fiend: I do not know much about making a guidebook but I think that your proposition has a small attachment with it. That attachment is internal politics. If you want the guidebook quickly I would stick to doing it from a scratch without that attachment it will be faster. Looking forward to new guide.

In reply to Fiend:

Might be another small problem. GU sharing some of the proceeds with the CC.

The Ent

In reply to Fiend:

One thing that should be noted in this discussion is that the Climbers Club do work with Ground Up. North Wales Rock couldnt have been completed without the help of the Climbers Club, who allowed many of the route descriptions from their guidebooks to be used in the North Wales Rock guidebook. The basis of this was that any interest in N.W.R. would also promote interest into C.C. guidebooks, for climbers wanting more detail/routes on specific crags rather than selected climbs.
Whether the C.C. will assist with the Gogarth book is another question, I guess not, as this new book will be in direct competition with the C.C. Gogarth guidebook.

In reply to Enty:

Do CC make profits on their guides and does that profit go to the people who wrote them? Or does it go back into funding the CC? Or do they not profit at all?

Either way, I would guess that GU will get their definitive guide out before the CC, and the CC will either give up or waste their time producing a guide no-one buys - and not get any proceeds anyway.

If the proceeds are an issue, one would imagine that amongst intelligent grown adults some negotiation would be possible, particularly if CC scripts result in considerably less work for the GU authors.

In reply to Joss:


What C.C. Gogarth guidebook?

In reply to Fiend:

Ugh I can see myself getting dragged into a discussion about this.

For the record, I have no "political" guidebook preferences in this situation, I support both sides. All I'm interested in is seeing a good Gogarth guide, and the neatness of whoever is doing it using all the resources available rather than having wasted resources lying around for whatever reasons.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

This is certainly great news in the short term but my joy is not completely unalloyed on the basis we still don't know what committment Ground Up will give that they will produce timely updates. Lets face it Gogarth is not popular enough to support two guides and once GU take over publication will they be any better than the CC come the time for a replacement?

In reply to Fiend:

Sorry, Fiend, I had to remove your post higher up, although I share a certain amount of sympathy for the sentiment you were expressing.

Alan

In reply to Fiend:


This one

http://www.rockrun.com/shop/prod.html?d=13&t=162&p=788&sid=c298...

In reply to Alan James - UKC:

LOL, fair enough! It's my "bang heads together" knee jerk response.

In reply to Joss:

That'll be the one that is 17 years old and is hopelessly out of date.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

In the perfect world of guidebooks this is what I want.

A big book, with every route, handhold and foothold, rusty peg and rotten tat described. It is about the size of the Lancs Brick. At the start of each section is the history and lots of anecdotes from first ascencionists. Full of ace pics of routes both classics and obscure ones. Every esoteric venue is in there.
This book sits at the side of the bog has never seen a rucksack or a crag.

Then I go to my PC, download "Gogarth North Stack pdf"
Print it off, stick it in my pocket and jump in the car. If it cost 2 quid to download, no bother.

The Ent

In reply to Fiend:

One further and generally unrelated thought.

It would be nice/useful/appropriate if the next definitive Gogarth guide included deep water soloing (and coasteering) information as appropriate, given there is undoubtably some potential in that way.

In reply to tony:


No one wants a new Gogarth guide more than me but I think we might be in danger of blowing things out of proportion here. There is a danger of turning the 1990 Gogarth Guide into the new Jade Goody. Everyone likes something to attack to make themselves look and feel better but, really, this guide is adequate for most people.

The descriptions could be better, the pitch lengths are generally wrong (but at least consistent, just knock 25% of each one) but as a first time visitor you will find your way to the Wen Slab and the Upper Tier. Subsequent visits will build on that knowledge, I've only ever struggled to find the start of one route and got lost on another (but if I tell you which route that was you're almost certain to think it's my fault anyway!). Most people interested in repeating recent new routes would have been able to get hold of the info one way or another.

The bottom line is that, thanks to the reprint, we are not left with a situation like in Pembroke a few years ago where copies of any guide were like rocking horse shite.

In reply to Tyler:

Good point. Arguments about the presentation of the old guide are really secondary to the availability of any sort of guide (adequate and available for probably more than 90% of the climbing)

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Another random tangent, more about current CC guides than anything.

They did a bloody good job with the Merionydd guide (although some of the areas are a bit confusing e.g. Rhinnogs) - it really is a comprehensive bumper fun book, and a good treatment of an very complicated area.

Errrrm. That's all. Just wanted to say that.

Yay!!!

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

In refrence to the title of the thread, I bet the CC were surprised!


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:



But you're a member Chris, therefore you ARE the CC, just as much as any other member.

In reply to Al Downie:

Undeniably - and it is true I was very surprised, though probably not as much as the GBC!


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

it's a PSC not a GBC!

In reply to Enty:

hear hear! and i for one don't care who publishes it, as long as i get to replace my 1960's pete crew guide.

In reply to Alan James - UKC:

Oh aye - got my DSP (Definitive Series Providers) confused - what a dork!


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

I doubt that, actually.

jcm