/ E0 we've all been had

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balls of cotton wool on 19 Aug 2002 - dial-62-64-213-141.access.uk.tiscali.com
well it must have been a joke, surely?
He was winding us up all along, trying to weed out the obsessive grade freaks.
Shame that a joke that no-one gets ain't funny. Or is that the joke?
boring climber with stupid name on 19 Aug 2002 - m435-mp1.cvx1-a.lee.dial.ntli.net [inktomi3-lee.server.ntl.com]
In reply to balls of cotton wool:
climbers should listen to gonk then they would be less boring
balls of cotton wool on 19 Aug 2002 - dial-62-64-231-171.access.uk.tiscali.com
In reply to boring climber with stupid name:
who are gonk?

PS nice name lol!
captain paranoia - on 19 Aug 2002
In reply to balls of cotton wool:

Sounds a bit Zen, really; you know, sound of one hand clapping, jokes that no-one gets...

Or is that telly-tubbies? 'Everybody say E-0, E-0'
balls of cotton wool on 19 Aug 2002 - dial-62-64-231-171.access.uk.tiscali.com
In reply to captain paranoia:
Lol!
lmao!
rof!
Roflmao!

thats the most hilarious thing i've heard all day, i'm crying, i'm laughing that hard
Anonymous on 20 Aug 2002 - 194.73.39.227 whois?
In reply to balls of cotton wool: What does Roflmao mean
FH on 20 Aug 2002 - proxyserver.lcb.ac.uk
In reply to balls of cotton wool:


And yesterday we had the evidence that he uses V grades when bouldering, but he deleted it as soon as he relised the shield had slipped.

Fiend the Troll ace and true guardian of the V grade.
boring climber with stupid name on 20 Aug 2002 - inktomi3-man.server.ntl.com
In reply to balls of cotton wool:
gonk is one of my many 'musical projects'.(file under catagory unknown)
album available now
Martin Brierley on 20 Aug 2002 - 130.246.240.41 [wwwcache3.rl.ac.uk]
In reply to boring climber with stupid name:

E0 is a donkey grade!


EEEEEE-0000000!
EEEEEE-0000000!

Can I get a carrot with that?
Pooh Bear on 20 Aug 2002 - dial-62-64-215-112.access.uk.tiscali.com
In reply to Martin Brierley: will you smile if you do?
Martin Brierley on 20 Aug 2002 - 130.246.240.41 [wwwcache3.rl.ac.uk]
In reply to Pooh Bear:

depends where it goes!
Pooh Bear on 20 Aug 2002 - dial-62-64-215-112.access.uk.tiscali.com
In reply to Martin Brierley:
well me thinks you;ve got a dirty mind, and have been sbconsciously influenced by my innocent name!
Fiend on 20 Aug 2002 - 213-48-74-155.bra.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk [cache-har.cableinet.co.uk]
In reply to Greengrass Stop Dicking Around:

As a somewhat tangential side-effect, you lot have been had. But not in the way you think you have....and E0 is still entirely genuine.
Adam Lincoln - on 20 Aug 2002
In reply to Fiend:

Only in your deluded mind!

Take it to New Zealand with you, and bury it
FH on 20 Aug 2002 - proxyserver.lcb.ac.uk
In reply to Adam Lincoln:

I think Fiend would rather bury the V grade, as he canít understand the need and validity of them. He canít see what progress they bring to one specific area of climbing, yet he uses the exact same pro V grade arguments to argue for the E0 grade.

His argument is floored by his own hypocrisy.

(But he will never answer this charge)


Martin Brierley on 20 Aug 2002 - 130.246.240.41 [wwwcache3.rl.ac.uk]
In reply to Adam Lincoln:

But don't New Zealanders use a different grading system?

so what will Fiend do now?


Let's face it, the step between grades is highly subjective according to the level you climb at.

Now I'm more or less happy to have a bash at an E2, and have dogged the odd E3 to completion, but have failed miserably at all the E4's that I've ever tried (except Quicksilver - I very nearly had that if I hadn't have bottled it!).

so the largest grade gap that I'm aware of is that between E3 and E4.

To my knowledge that between HVS and E1 was easy therefore a close gap (overlapping really). E1 and E2 gap is not insurmountable, but E2 - E3 seems a trifle larger.

So I say Nay to E0, but further push for E2.5 and E3.5 so's I've got a chance at getting up some harder grades!

I feel the same way about the gap between 5c and 6a.

5d anyone?
Adam Lincoln - on 20 Aug 2002
In reply to Fiend:

In your single minded, hypocrytical way. Your grading systems fine, but anyone elses is bollox - (Your attitude)

Fiend on 20 Aug 2002 - 213-48-74-155.bra.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk [cache-har.cableinet.co.uk]
In reply to FH:

I already answered that last time you compared the two.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/caff/forums/t.php?t=22174&v=1 <<< since you will be too lazy to find it yourself.
Simon Caldwell - on 20 Aug 2002
In reply to Martin Brierley:
Isn't the only real gap the one between whatever grade you're currently happy on and the next one up, whatever they may be? So personally I'd say the biggest gap is between VS and HVS, and we therefore need a new grade of MHVS.
FH on 20 Aug 2002 - proxyserver.lcb.ac.uk
In reply to Fiend:


Fiend me old chum, thatís the thread where you said I was old, implying that I was in the dark ages, and your argument was the R grade troll. Which I countered by pointing out you didnít know tour Adj. grade from your tech.You failed yet again to explain you hypocrisy.

Take your head out of the sand and listen to the RT voice of reason. E0 does not solve anything, just moves the goal posts. Weather a route is HVS, E0 or E1 you can climb it or you cant, and all the E0 grade achieves is an ego massage.

Fiend on 20 Aug 2002 - 213-48-74-155.bra.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk [cache-har.cableinet.co.uk]
In reply to FH:

Heh, actually, the "old man" was a bit of a harmless (I hope) jibe after seeing the photos of....errrr....whatever that place was you put up recently on yorkshiregritbouldering.co.uk or whatever it is.

> listen to the RT voice of reason

I'm sure I'd recognise a RT voice of reason if I ever saw one...

P.S. The difference between V and E0 is that V completely overwrites an entire grading system while E0 just adds a single grade to a grading system without changing the rest of it.
FH on 20 Aug 2002 - proxyserver.lcb.ac.uk
In reply to Fiend:

So you would argue pros use of V8+ then!
But anti the rest of the V grade system.

So when you get to NZ and go bouldering what the f*ck are you going to do then?


Bet you come back using V grades. Because unlike the brit tech grade and the font grade they are more universal.

Fiend on 20 Aug 2002 - 213-48-74-155.bra.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk [cache-har.cableinet.co.uk]
In reply to FH:

> So you would argue pros use of V8+ then!

Yes!!. Well, sort of. I'd argue the use of 6d at any rate =). But if people insisted on using these V-grade things....well it's a pity there isn't a convenient number between 8 and 9, isn't there??

> Because unlike the brit tech grade and the font grade they are more universal.

*Sigh*. That much is true. It's a case of "Everyone else uses them so we have to as well if we want to compare ourselves to the rest of the world" =(.
Martin Brierley on 20 Aug 2002 - 130.246.240.41 [wwwcache3.rl.ac.uk]
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Absolutley!

let's make a system where everything is graded down to the very last detail, and have say, a thousand grade steps.

No, on second thoughts don't, I like the one we've got already!

I say be a man/woman and climb for the route and not the grade (this'll take some adjusting to on my behalf!)
Martin Brierley on 20 Aug 2002 - 130.246.240.41 [wwwcache3.rl.ac.uk]
In reply to FH:

But don't V grades start a bit high up though?

What V grade do you boulder at the moment FH?

and would I even get one bouldering at 5c?
Graeme on 20 Aug 2002
In reply to Martin Brierley: Yes V1 or V2, maybe V3 if it was a traverse.
FH on 20 Aug 2002 - proxyserver.lcb.ac.uk
In reply to Fiend:
> (In reply to FH)

>
> *Sigh*. That much is true. It's a case of "Everyone else uses them so we have to as well if we want to compare ourselves to the rest of the world" =(.

It's not a question of comparing ourselves to the rest of the world, more a case of having one universal system.

It would be great to go on holiday to say Majorca, S.Africa or Argentina and find V grades. Yes it would take some of the mystery out of it. But if you were to go a do a new route in say Brazil, and you thought it was quite a stiff HVS you might give it E0. The local climbers wouldnít know what the fook you were on about, but if grading were international then it would be so much easier for all.


Not that I'm pro the Euro!

PS I had to get an E0 piss take in there.

FH on 20 Aug 2002 - proxyserver.lcb.ac.uk
In reply to Martin Brierley:

Not realy. V0 is about 5a/b ish which is about the right place to start. Anything easier is harder to grade as specificaly as the V grade system. Vermin Shermin the guy that invented it all could probably answer that better than me.

Personaly V0 - V6 (on a V.V.good day)
But some days it's good to get one or two hard problems on others it's good to do lots of V0 - V2/3.

Forget 5c, just go and do some V1/2's


Puting Tin hat on waiting for barrage of abuse from Andy Robinson.
Walker on 20 Aug 2002 - juseqisdn.isdn.vpop.esat.net
In reply to FH:
Does this whole discussion on grades/interim grades/f***ing mezzanine grades and all remind anyone else of the scene in Spinal Tap when the guitarist is explaining that his amp is louder 'cos it goes to 11 ? When it's pointed out to him that he cold have made it as loud and called it 10 on the dial he's stumped , doesn't understand , and just says " but it goes to 11 , so it's louder". If you put E10 where VDiff is , it makes no difference , the climb is still just as hard.
Martin Brierley on 20 Aug 2002 - 130.246.240.41 [wwwcache3.rl.ac.uk]
In reply to FH:

and where would I find said graded examples?

V6 sounds like a good grade!

Vrrooooooom!
ads.ukclimbing.com
jp on 20 Aug 2002 - host213-122-38-47.in-addr.btopenworld.com
In reply to Fiend:
> ... yorkshiregritbouldering.co.uk or whatever it is.

yorkshiregrit.com. Show some respect!
FH on 20 Aug 2002 - proxyserver.lcb.ac.uk
Chris Fryer - on 20 Aug 2002
In reply to FH: Actually in SA they use Font Grades, but thats beside the point. There are at least a dozen different grading systems all over the world, all different. Just 'cos you like V grades, why should they be adopted universally. Its a bit like you saying well, so many people speak english, why dont they make everyone in the world speak it, or adopt the Euro? (OK bad example). They are all a part of each countries culture. All you need to do is adapt slightly to suit the way they do things there.

Apart from E0 grades, which are only used in Fiend's little world.
FH on 20 Aug 2002 - proxyserver.lcb.ac.uk
In reply to Chris Fryer:

I was being a bit naughty when I mentioned SA, knowing it would only be a mater of minutes before you appeared.

I know there are several grading systems world wide, but other than Font and V how many are specificaly for bouldering.(B grades dont count). In the case of bouldering ONLY I think it would be good to see one system.
What do they use in Russia, Japan, India if anything?


Funny though how SA uses font for bouldering and the Ozzie system for routes.
Adam Lincoln - on 20 Aug 2002
In reply to FH:

India = V
Chris Fryer - on 20 Aug 2002
In reply to FH: its not actually Oz, it developd pretty much in parallel as a friend of (John?) Ewbank was climbing in Natal at the timeit was being developed and it became adopted. Prior to that SA had a system similar to the Yosemite Decimal System where A - flat walking, B - steep walking, C - scrambling D - climbing using hands and feet up to E, which was then segmented into E1, 2, 3 (about diff to HS) F1,2,3 (VS to HVS) G1,2,3 (Hard HVS to easy E2) etc. Trouble was this grading system was too coarse (a bit like trying to use Brit Adj grades without tech grades), so it was run parallel with the Ewbank grade for a few years before it was dropped completely). You learn something every day dont you.

South Africa has been more influenced by visits to Font and Oz by visits to USA? As far a I know the only bouldering grades used are Brit Tech, V, B and Font, as well as the funny one developed in Northumberland. Although you never know what they get up to in them foreign parts.
FH on 20 Aug 2002 - proxyserver.lcb.ac.uk
In reply to Chris Fryer:

Excellent, I will go to my grave a wiser man.

Once met a couple that told a nightmare storey of being benighted on a ledge on Table Mountain, all they had for company were baboons. Not fun at all!

Chris Fryer - on 20 Aug 2002
In reply to FH: Are worse things about than baboons. Not dangerous unless provoked or cornered. Also have a habit of reserving certain chimneys for shitting and pissing down. Very hygienic until you have to climb up it. Makes seagull vomit a pleasant option.
FH on 20 Aug 2002 - proxyserver.lcb.ac.uk
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
> (In reply to FH)
>
> India = V

What about other obscure countries.

Russia?
Brazil?
Scandanavian countries?
Germany?.......do they use V grades I dont know?
Font grades are said to be only realy suitable to font because of the style of climbing there, so how about the rest of France?

This has become a thread of curiosity.


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