UKC

Just wondering if its ok to use a ropeman to self belay, i have a shunt and its great, but i want to climb with someone else whilst using 2 ropes set up?
if your wondering why, we work together and sometimes we have a spare hour or so to climb crags near where i we work.
kev

In reply to kevin k: Depending on what type of ropeman you have will affect the answer to this question. The mk2 will do more damage to the rope sheath in a fall due to the teeth biting in and shreading it. However I have a vague memory of there being an issue with the mk1 (groovy teeth) but can't remember what.

Personally I would say shunt every time, or why not climb leader/second as usual?

Ben

In reply to BenTiffin:
Depending on what type of ropeman you have will affect the answer to this question. why not climb leader/second as usual?

its a ropeman 1, its just a time issue, i may have a spare hour or so to climb, so i thought it would be good to get some quick climbs in.

In reply to kevin k: http://www.wildcountry.co.uk/Products/AscentDecentBelay/RopemanMK1/

Ben

In reply to BenTiffin: thanks, interesting read, but i still dos'nt answer my question

In reply to kevin k:

No, it would be nightmare to move up whilst climbing and if you fall it could bad things to the rope. Stick to using shunts.

In reply to Duncan_S: ok, i think your right, i was just double checking.

In reply to BenTiffin:
>the mk1 (groovy teeth)

Yeah baby! Very groovy...

In reply to kevin k:

I climb with exactly this setup when I can't get a belayer. There are a few issues with using the mk1 ropeman for self belayed ascents though:

Firstly, you need to add some weight to the bottom of the rope so that the ropeman slides upwards easily, I do this by simply hitching up the slack rope and leaving it a meter from the ground.

Secondly, when climbing you should stop a few meters off the ground and tie an overhand knot bellow your ropeman so that in the event of it not locking in a fall you will not hit the ground.

Thirdly, I back-up my abseil loop with a sling.

I did e-mail wild country to check that using the ropeman for this purpose is ok but they didn't replay! I have taken plenty of falls and the ropeman has always locked straight away so I don't have too many issues with the system now.

I would like to know if anyone can see any advantages in using a Shunt instead?

Cheers

In reply to BenTiffin:


The Lyon Equipment report states that this device did not slip with a load of up to 4kn. However at a load of 3.5 kn the device stripped the sheath from the rope and at 4 kn it severed the rope completely...

http://www.thebikezone.org.uk/therockzone/selfbelay.html

In reply to kevin k: I usually a Petzl mini traction. It does have teeth but never damaged a rope and the manufacturer recomends it for this purpose. Cheers Mick

In reply to The Last Man....:

Ok, having read the reports about the mk1 ropeman I'm not going to use it again for roped soloing! I'll probably modify a grigri and climb with this setup instead.

I would definately recommend reading the article on thebikezone.org.uk for anyone who is thinking about trying this style of climbing, it's very informative.

Anyone know if the new edelrid eddy would make a good self belay device?

In reply to BenTiffin:


doesn't a shunt have teeth too? and would damage the rope just the same in a fall?

In reply to MikeTS: No, a shunt has a smoove 'bar' acting as a cam to lock the rope off.

I use a shunt, and as I am mainly working routes on it, and therefore not always climbing long distances continuously am not too bothered about the prospect of slippage as something would have probably gone very wrong for that to happen.

I also don't tie a back up knot, which I am sure someone will now tell me will be the cause of my demise. I find that i need a reasonable amount of weight on the end of the rope (usually a rucksack with gear in it) to allow the rope to feed well.

I haven't had any scary moments on it, and when you get used to what you can and can't do with the shunt it is a very useful tool.

However i do feel that it sometimes aids you in making certain types of moves, especially if you have just pulled on from sitting on the rope.

In reply to colin8ll:

If you're saying that you're not going to use a mk1 ropeman and then stating that you'll use a modified grigri instead for roped-soloing, then I'd say do neither! It sounds like you're confusing yourself and in that case I'd stick to climbing with other people or not at all. Keeps you alive longer.

NB. A modified (otherwise known as the death-grigri) grigri is only necessary for roped solo leading. Yes, leading, not following up a fixed line.

Sorry if this sounds arsey, but it's absolutely critical that you get things 100% right when going out on your own adn setting up systems.

In reply to MikeTS: no, a shunt uses a 8 - 10mm metal rod, it works on pushing the rope against the metal case, it works really well

In reply to Oli:

Thanks


Is the best way to have a backup to climb on 2 ropes (or one doubled but obviously tied at the top!) and backup on the rope that doesn't have the shunt to a carbiner on your harness?

In reply to MikeTS: Probably, but it would be a bit of a pain to work moves and stuff with a big loop of slack in the way.
I'm confident that I won't grab the shunt when falling which is one of the main dangers.

In reply to Oli:

but is there a better way (apart from risking death I mean): is a shunt 100% reliable to catch you in a fall?

In reply to MikeTS: I reckon a shunt is probably the best way. A Petzl Microcender or troll rocker may be as good/better, but I don't have experience in them.

Is anything 100%?

In reply to Oli:


that's why we backup?
Have you looked at the 'Silent Partner'?
(I'm interested since I live a few mins away from a crag and can sometimeS nip out for an hour or two, but can't raise a partner at short notice)

In reply to MikeTS: Not really, its too expensive for me!

I'm quite happy with my shunt. As i said earlier, I don't really just 'do' routes with it, more work them.

In reply to MikeTS:


Have you? Particularly regarding price and availability? (Heres a clue: large, small, in that order.) By all accounts its a cracking device, but rather OTT for solo top-roping.

The Rocker is my device of choice, but I only really chose it because I already had one from some old work kit. Troll is no more, but the rocker is still available from several other manufacturers. (Who all source it from the same factory that used to make them for Troll in the first place.)

Sean
x

In reply to deepsoup:
It's not cheap but they'll ship it from the US I believe.
The instructions suggest you backup on a separate rope

In reply to MikeTS: Its quite big as well, i believe.

In reply to kevin k: Ropeman mk 1 or 2 - don't use it (like you say) it'll strip your rope and isn't safe. Gri-gri is good either folr rope solo leading or solo top roping. Shunt is also good. Only problem with shunt is chance of grabbing it in a fall and releasing to the ground and the major one of the body being really weak in comparison to other devices. This means if you tie knots below on the working rope and the shunt slips - which it does at around 275 Kilonewtons (realistic chance) and hits a knot it can break open and fail.

In reply to petejh: 2.75 KN i mean.

In reply to Tom Randall - Lattice Training:

My reason for not wanting to use the mk1 ropeman comes from learning that at a very low impact force (4kn) it will slice through my rope! The grigri won't do this and will allow me to abseil without any other rigging.

Secondly, modifying the grigri will allow the rope to run though it at a straighter angle and in a top-roping situation this will help the grigri slide up the rope more efficiently.

In reply to All: i tried a ropeman mk1 the other day, but i was not happy with it, it was just a thought, i let myself fall (honest) about 2 feet, but i found that it has quite hard to release the presure on the ropeman, i'm going for a shunt every time now.