UKC

Summary of Grade Changes from the 2002 to the 2007 Stanage guide

Here’s what I’ve got from checking through:

134 upgrades (58 Left End; 32 Plantation; 44 Popular and Right End)
111 downgrades (27 Left End; 37 Plantation; 47 Popular and Right End)

Biggest Upgrades:

Green Ginger S to HVS 5b
Nursery Crack VS 5a to HVS 6a
Hercules Crack VD to HS 4b
Pool Wall VS 4a to VS 5b
Delicious VD to HS 4b
Mantelpiece Right D to HVD

Biggest Downgrades

Slab Happy VS 5a to VS 4b
Straight Variation VS 4b to S 4b
Spectacle S 5a to S 4b
Pulse HVS 5a to HS 4c
Cosmos VS 4b to S 4a
Blown Away E2 5c to HVS 5c
Accessory Wall VS 4c to HS
Dieppe VS 4b to S 4b
Narrowing Chimney S to D
Soft Shoe VS 5a to HS 4b
Flake Chimney S to VD
Wedge Gully VS 4c to S 4a
Happy Hips HVS 6a to HVS 5b

Some other useful bits:

• Number of Named Routes (including named variations): 1498
(52 newly listed: 13 below S; 20 S -HS; 14 VS-E2; 5 above E2)
(not counted unnamed variations but there are well over a hundred, a lot of which were previously unlisted)
• Number of named boulder problems 355 (315 newly listed plus well over a hundred unnamed).
• 4 missing from 2002, 3 name changes.

I’ll expand on this later for the ‘Offwidth’ website. Apologies if any of these counts are wrong but it’s easy to miss stuff in such a guide, with areas of very compact information.

In reply to Offwidth:

Fascinating (not being facetious).

Slightly overall upward trend towards upgrading rather than the consistently upward trend we tend to assume is the case.

Also, Nursery Crack HVS 6a used to be graded Diff, according to the Rockfax guide!

In reply to Eric Herring:

Yeah, that Nursery Crack upgrade is something.

j

In reply to Offwidth:

The current number of named routes should have been 1398 of course, split 478 (left), 414 (plantation) and 506 (popular).

There are 1591 numbered routes and boulder problems (split 480, 557, 554).

In reply to Offwidth: Very nice. As a matter of interest, which are the 4 routes which were present in the 2002 guide but are missing from the new one?

In reply to Offwidth: Although Green Ginger seemed a bit hard for S (I soloed it last year), it's definitely way overgraded at HVS 5b - unless the line's changed. The moves are thin, initially I thought it was going to be very hard but once I'd worked it out it wasn't too bad - maybe HS 4c.

Tempest next door (at VS 5a in the 2002 guide) looks lots harder - didn't even try to solo that one - has it been upgraded as well?

In reply to Michael Hood: Information for Offwidth -
Just looked at Offwidth's site, I think Green Ginger is separate from Tempest.

Tempest almost starts in Caliban's Cave and looks like it goes to an obvious slot.

Green Ginger starts a few feet (5?) to the left of Prospero's on small pocket/smears. It feels very artificial as you can escape right into Prospero's between moves.

In reply to Nige M:

I know one of them since it is my only first ascent!
“Cue Extension”
It is an alternative finish to Cue that continues the leftward traverse instead of pulling up the hanging crack. I guess it was felt to be not very worthwhile (although the 2002 book calls it 'exciting'). I think this new guide may be the best UK guide ever – but I have to confess that I was disappointed for my route to be missed out. Oh well!

Tom

In reply to Tom A Hughes:

That might make 5: its really hard to spot the ones that were buried in the description; especially if they were more than VS and not starred as its wasn't pertinent to our site at the time. I was also only including named routes where no information was given (several others lost names to something like 'the crack to the left is HS')

In reply to Michael Hood

Thanks for that. My main problem when I checked for Green Ginger was I was looking for a line up a patch of green slime that would be independant. The only possibility dried very rarely and when it did seemed to be more like 5c (I probably discounted the route you climbed next to Prosperos as not being a clear line) The fact the route was claimed at S and HVS by the same person on the new routes database didnt help and new claims can be remarkably unreliable on the grading front. I knew Tempest went for the slot.

In reply to Nige M

Can't remember them all at the moment will check later when I'm back home.

In reply to Ropeboy:

My Theory is that Climbers are generally not as good at jamming as they were 30 years ago. Nursury Crack was always pretty stiff at Diff but you just shoved everything in and let battle commence. Suspect that climbing walls and sports climbing have contibuted to the overall decline in jamming ability over the years.

In reply to kipper (the original one):

Thats why Inverted V was VS in 83 then and Hell Crack and paradise Wall. I think you might mean people were better at offwidths in the early days of climbing as they were more secure but Nursery crack was always a sandbag. It will now be the biggest soft touch on the most popular crag and yet will it see queues like 3PS or Gingerbread...I think not

In reply to Offwidth:
Hi Steve. Nursery Crack's never seen 6a though. And Green Ginger up to HVS 5b????

In reply to David Simmonite:

As hinted at here I'm with you.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=244878&v=1#3602199

Green Ginger was submitted as HVS and S so it was always going to be a bit gemini.

In reply to Offwidth:
GG's still not HVS though. Must be the softest touch HVS on Gritstone now. Form an orderly queue now folks.

In reply to David Simmonite:

And its a slab.

Of course the new guide's doing a public service: like 'Ace' in PGE the traffic will clean it up nicely and get it back to its proper grade. Especially now you can actually find where it is. I tried the line, at least where I thought it was and had to wait a good few trips for it to dry and then found it was 5c and subsequently after all that wait it appears I was in the wrong place

In reply to Offwidth:

Re Green Ginger, see this:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=245825

In reply to Offwidth:

As a matter of interest, has Namenlos been downgraded (E1 to HVS)? Also has Black Hawk Bastion been downgraded (E3 to E2)?

In reply to kevin stephens:
Namenlos - Peak Grit East puts it at E1 5a with a description of "HVS for climbers who can use their feet".
My mate was using a different guide and it was graded at HVS, not sure if they had the Stanage guide or the new Rockfax though.
Comparing it to Motorcade at Froggatt which gets the same grade and has similar run out of unprotected friction type moves, it was nowhere near as hard or scary so HVS for me on that basis. That said, I thought Motorcade was 5b rather than 5a, tho E1 5b suggests something better protected and that logic would maybe bump Motorcade up to E2 anyway.

In reply to SecretSquirrel:

Graded HVS 5a in Eastern Grit with the caveat that it may feel E1 for the faint of heart. Think HVS is right though, it's not hard enough or bold enough to merit the E grade.

In reply to climbingpixie:

so what does the NEW stanage guide say, also Black Hawk Bastion?

as a matter of interest thee old Paul Nunn selected climbs book gives Namenlos MVS

In reply to kevin stephens:

Namenlos is given HVS, not MVS in Nunn's guide.

In reply to sutty:

depends on which edition!

In reply to kevin stephens:

Paul Nunn's grades were alwasy a bit odd. Namenlos stayed at E1 (we are sticking with it as HVS on Offwidth). It was one of the few famous soft touches that I thought should be looked at that didnt go down. Black Hawk Bastion we havent tried so its not on the site but I have a suspicion it might have got downgraded but would need to check.

In reply to kevin stephens:

BHB gets E3 5c "an essential E3 tick" and in the graded list is above Vena Cave-In, Teli, Wall End Slab Direct and Moribund.

Chris

In reply to Offwidth:


Really! It's E1 in the new Stanage guide? What does Pegasus Rib get in the new guide?

In reply to Chris Craggs:

BHB gets E3 5c

No wonder I could not do it.
Made a a desultory attempt when there was a peg in it but decided it might not hold a fall and the other pro at the time certainly seemed flaky as well.

I suppose you can lace it now with modern gear.

In reply to climbingpixie:

Pegasus Rib - HVS 5a - best stick with Eastern Grit!!


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

LOL, it balances out then I suppose with Namenlos being E1 in the definitive guide. Though I do think Rockfax have got them the right way round - yes, Pegasus Rib is easier that Namenlos but it's a lot more serious and run-out above indifferent gear.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

E3 for BHB feels right - it's awkward and tiring, despite the short length of the tricky section. Additionally, if you fell at the end of the hard section you wouldn't go far, but it might be a nasty fall all the same.

However, I wouldn't put it above Moribund. A bit of an odd one that - the text gives plenty of warning about Moribund being quite tough, but then it's low in the graded list. It could be the text is warning people to take care on it, which isn't a bad idea I suppose.