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hello
been looking through yorkshire grit bouldering guide and yorkshire grit guide and wondering something that's probably asked forever but anyway, here's me asking again...
when is a problem/route of, say, 8m, a highball boulder problem and when is it a route? For instance, there might be a 6a problem with a nasty landing that might merit it being V4 in 'bouldering' terms, but in 'route' terms its adjectival grade would perhaps be E4 - what decides which grade you use for it?
I'm sure there's a logical and obvious answer to this.
ta!
been looking through yorkshire grit bouldering guide and yorkshire grit guide and wondering something that's probably asked forever but anyway, here's me asking again...
when is a problem/route of, say, 8m, a highball boulder problem and when is it a route? For instance, there might be a 6a problem with a nasty landing that might merit it being V4 in 'bouldering' terms, but in 'route' terms its adjectival grade would perhaps be E4 - what decides which grade you use for it?
I'm sure there's a logical and obvious answer to this.
ta!
In reply to CJD:
Fall off a highball and the probability is a sprain or bruise but a fracture is possible.
Fall off a route and death is possible (height or landing).
Fall off a highball and the probability is a sprain or bruise but a fracture is possible.
Fall off a route and death is possible (height or landing).
In reply to Duz Walker:
but why are some routes listed as highball boulder problems in the bouldering guide?
<bumbles off to find examples>
but why are some routes listed as highball boulder problems in the bouldering guide?
<bumbles off to find examples>
In reply to CJD: Basically there isn't a simple answer, depsite the best attempts of crag writers writing introductions to Caley over the years to justify E-points. Two words: bouldering mats.
For the record your example sounds like a really piss E4. Unless there's some sort of E4 5c top bit, like High Flyer (the one right of Incursion at Stanage ) but however useful it would be to give this V4 E3/4 6a, this would totally remove the aura of mystery and adventure, of boldly going where no Stanage E3 leader has gone before, about it as well as pre warning you of a sting in the tale. All that about a campus problem with a dodgy slab top out. Brilliant route though...
For the record your example sounds like a really piss E4. Unless there's some sort of E4 5c top bit, like High Flyer (the one right of Incursion at Stanage ) but however useful it would be to give this V4 E3/4 6a, this would totally remove the aura of mystery and adventure, of boldly going where no Stanage E3 leader has gone before, about it as well as pre warning you of a sting in the tale. All that about a campus problem with a dodgy slab top out. Brilliant route though...
In reply to Paz:
the thing that got me thinking about it was skimming through the Scout Hut crag section in the Yorkshire Grit guide, which has lots of 8m problems that are E-graded - if one was to do these with a mat, would, say, the 5m HVS 5c called Coppice Moon become aV1-3 depending on landing? (as an example - I don't know the route)
the thing that got me thinking about it was skimming through the Scout Hut crag section in the Yorkshire Grit guide, which has lots of 8m problems that are E-graded - if one was to do these with a mat, would, say, the 5m HVS 5c called Coppice Moon become aV1-3 depending on landing? (as an example - I don't know the route)
In reply to CJD:
Going for it on lead necessitates the use of the E grade. Going for it with mats and a spotter and look for the V/font grade to guide you. The wide grey area are often covered by both grades, choose your weapons!
Going for it on lead necessitates the use of the E grade. Going for it with mats and a spotter and look for the V/font grade to guide you. The wide grey area are often covered by both grades, choose your weapons!
In reply to Duz Walker:
I think that's a dividing line for me. You get E-points if you're willing to take a proper trad deck out. Now as long as noone ground ups Angel's Share above pads, this rose tinted shining line in the sand will answer all future questions.
I think that's a dividing line for me. You get E-points if you're willing to take a proper trad deck out. Now as long as noone ground ups Angel's Share above pads, this rose tinted shining line in the sand will answer all future questions.
In reply to Paz:
so if you don't use a mat, you get to use the trad grade, regardless of whether you've a rope attached to you or any gear or anything? Hmm, interesting!
so if you don't use a mat, you get to use the trad grade, regardless of whether you've a rope attached to you or any gear or anything? Hmm, interesting!
In reply to CJD:
Remember that the Yorkshire Grit guide was printed before bouldering mats became common (or possibly even earlier) so boulder problems that went on for much more than a few moves effectively became routes with subsequent adjectival grade.
Of course the boundary between the two is blurred so you can't definitively say, this is a route and this a boulder problem because of height or whatever as there are several factors at play.
My own take on this would be to use bouldering grades for the obvious low level stuff, adjectival grades for the routes then use bouldering grades plus the P-grade for the highballs. So something like Psycho at Caley which is currently given E5 6b would be v4 P2/3. Of course then you have two boundaries!
boB
Remember that the Yorkshire Grit guide was printed before bouldering mats became common (or possibly even earlier) so boulder problems that went on for much more than a few moves effectively became routes with subsequent adjectival grade.
Of course the boundary between the two is blurred so you can't definitively say, this is a route and this a boulder problem because of height or whatever as there are several factors at play.
My own take on this would be to use bouldering grades for the obvious low level stuff, adjectival grades for the routes then use bouldering grades plus the P-grade for the highballs. So something like Psycho at Caley which is currently given E5 6b would be v4 P2/3. Of course then you have two boundaries!
boB
In reply to Bob:
but if you're doing a route as a highball boulder problem there's no point in taking the P grade into account, is there, as you won't be putting any in?
but if you're doing a route as a highball boulder problem there's no point in taking the P grade into account, is there, as you won't be putting any in?
In reply to CJD:
Without a mat, spotters, beta, rehearsing the moves,falling off, brushing etc you get to claim the full weight of the E grade. Bouldering grades allow (and are often dependent on) all sorts of shenanigans.
Without a mat, spotters, beta, rehearsing the moves,falling off, brushing etc you get to claim the full weight of the E grade. Bouldering grades allow (and are often dependent on) all sorts of shenanigans.
In reply to CJD:
If you don't use a mat you get a trad grade (if given). If you do use a mat you get to have an ethics debate.
If you don't use a mat you get a trad grade (if given). If you do use a mat you get to have an ethics debate.
In reply to Duz Walker:
THe only difference you mention are spotters and mat - the rest usually occurs on a route
> (In reply to CJD)
>
> Without a mat, spotters, beta, rehearsing the moves,falling off, brushing etc you get to claim the full weight of the E grade.
>
> Without a mat, spotters, beta, rehearsing the moves,falling off, brushing etc you get to claim the full weight of the E grade.
THe only difference you mention are spotters and mat - the rest usually occurs on a route
In reply to nz Cragrat:
P grades are in the Yorkshire grit guide and refer to the amount of protection on a route - 1 being lots, 3 being little.
P grades are in the Yorkshire grit guide and refer to the amount of protection on a route - 1 being lots, 3 being little.
In reply to Bob: "Psycho at Caley, E5 6b would be v4 P2/3. "
Herein an issue lies. If you've just got one mat, it's basically only any use for keeping your boots clean (if it's my old knackered one anyway). You'd need a double stack of about ten pads, celebrity spotting crew, internet film crew egging you on and a choice of fashionable logos to make it V4.
Although V grades don't take into account prang factor (see old argument amongst rockfax/vertical brain founders)- it'd be fair at Font 7b (felt harder than a similar font 7a+ I did anyway but is probably easier than super prestat)
Herein an issue lies. If you've just got one mat, it's basically only any use for keeping your boots clean (if it's my old knackered one anyway). You'd need a double stack of about ten pads, celebrity spotting crew, internet film crew egging you on and a choice of fashionable logos to make it V4.
Although V grades don't take into account prang factor (see old argument amongst rockfax/vertical brain founders)- it'd be fair at Font 7b (felt harder than a similar font 7a+ I did anyway but is probably easier than super prestat)
In reply to CJD:
oh, and it also suggests that falling off a P3 is deeply inadvisable as it's likely to hurt lots...
oh, and it also suggests that falling off a P3 is deeply inadvisable as it's likely to hurt lots...
In reply to Paz:
can i be an idiot and say what's prang factor?
and having had a look at Psycho yesterday, out of curiosity, I'd like to say 'eek, if that's V4 then oh my word I have a lot to learn (well I do anyway but even more so...)'
can i be an idiot and say what's prang factor?
and having had a look at Psycho yesterday, out of curiosity, I'd like to say 'eek, if that's V4 then oh my word I have a lot to learn (well I do anyway but even more so...)'
In reply to nz Cragrat:
They're analogous to DWS S grades, if that helps whihc it probably doesn't. Also similar to American R W and X, only loads of pre pad highballs got P3.
My friends talked before about giving Pee grades to crags to describe how convenient it was to go.
They're analogous to DWS S grades, if that helps whihc it probably doesn't. Also similar to American R W and X, only loads of pre pad highballs got P3.
My friends talked before about giving Pee grades to crags to describe how convenient it was to go.
In reply to CJD:
I thought that is what the E grades were meant to show>
> (In reply to nz Cragrat)
>
> P grades are in the Yorkshire grit guide and refer to the amount of protection on a route - 1 being lots, 3 being little.
>
> P grades are in the Yorkshire grit guide and refer to the amount of protection on a route - 1 being lots, 3 being little.
I thought that is what the E grades were meant to show>
In reply to CJD:
the thing you have to factor into an adjectival grade to describe the possibility of pranging yourself if you fall off.
the thing you have to factor into an adjectival grade to describe the possibility of pranging yourself if you fall off.
In reply to nz Cragrat:
They don't just show that. Its just that noone likes to give E grades to sport climbers any more, and now they've (I should say we've) got french grades they/ we don't care.
They don't just show that. Its just that noone likes to give E grades to sport climbers any more, and now they've (I should say we've) got french grades they/ we don't care.
In reply to Lizzie:
ha haaaa! but oi, don't knock it, it's better than me sitting on boulders and throwing tantrums and declaring I'm never going to climb again
guffaw!
still pleased about Mr Smooth?
ha haaaa! but oi, don't knock it, it's better than me sitting on boulders and throwing tantrums and declaring I'm never going to climb again
guffaw!
still pleased about Mr Smooth?
In reply to CJD:
absolutely. i felt glimmers of feeling like a climber again instead of a bumbly.
just need to sort shoulder. it hurts like hell today. and didnt' get my massage as promised
absolutely. i felt glimmers of feeling like a climber again instead of a bumbly.
just need to sort shoulder. it hurts like hell today. and didnt' get my massage as promised
In reply to nz Cragrat:
Err, no! The adjectival grade is a measure of how hard the route is, not the level of protection.
The P grade is the "Prang" grade, i.e. a 1 means you are unlikely to hurt yourself and a 3 means "hope you like hospital food"!
To Paz:
I chose v4 for Psycho, not because I think it is that grade but just as a figure to show how I think highball problems should be graded. The Yorkshire Gritstone bouldering guide doesn't give a v-grade for Psycho but there is a 6b problem nearby given v4, hence why I chose it.
boB
Err, no! The adjectival grade is a measure of how hard the route is, not the level of protection.
The P grade is the "Prang" grade, i.e. a 1 means you are unlikely to hurt yourself and a 3 means "hope you like hospital food"!
To Paz:
I chose v4 for Psycho, not because I think it is that grade but just as a figure to show how I think highball problems should be graded. The Yorkshire Gritstone bouldering guide doesn't give a v-grade for Psycho but there is a 6b problem nearby given v4, hence why I chose it.
boB
In reply to nz Cragrat:
Noone reads decriptions in the UK, or at least noone understands them until afterwards. Why do you think Rockfax have become such a success story?
Noone reads decriptions in the UK, or at least noone understands them until afterwards. Why do you think Rockfax have become such a success story?
In reply to Bob:
Fair enough, V4/5 P2/3'd be accurate but it's a fair bit longer than Otley Wall etc. and is a mighty tick for a lot of people. It's a lot less of a highball than Permutation Rib nearby.
Fair enough, V4/5 P2/3'd be accurate but it's a fair bit longer than Otley Wall etc. and is a mighty tick for a lot of people. It's a lot less of a highball than Permutation Rib nearby.
In reply to Duz Walker:
I think that's a bit too absolute and objective to work - you'd be unlucky, but it's theoretically possible to sustain a fatal basal skull fracture from a fall of just a few feet and with no direct blow to the head. Admittedly I've never actually heard of this, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.
I was thinking about a subjective definition, sotheing like 'if you're prepared to take the fall it's a boulder problem, if you don't consider the fall unacceptable it's a solo'.
Then again, what about something like High Plains Drifter (sorry, don't boulder much so I can't think of a UK example). I certainly wouldn't want to fall off the top of that, but then it's only about 5.7/5.8 which is nothing if you've done the 'meat' of the problem.
I think it's a very blurred line, and probably has as much to do with the history and consensus style of ascent. There's no real answer. In that respect it's a little like the question of where the line between an easy solo and scramble is drawn - it's purely subjective.
> (In reply to CJD)
>
> Fall off a highball and the probability is a sprain or bruise but a fracture is possible.
>
> Fall off a route and death is possible (height or landing).
>
> Fall off a highball and the probability is a sprain or bruise but a fracture is possible.
>
> Fall off a route and death is possible (height or landing).
I think that's a bit too absolute and objective to work - you'd be unlucky, but it's theoretically possible to sustain a fatal basal skull fracture from a fall of just a few feet and with no direct blow to the head. Admittedly I've never actually heard of this, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.
I was thinking about a subjective definition, sotheing like 'if you're prepared to take the fall it's a boulder problem, if you don't consider the fall unacceptable it's a solo'.
Then again, what about something like High Plains Drifter (sorry, don't boulder much so I can't think of a UK example). I certainly wouldn't want to fall off the top of that, but then it's only about 5.7/5.8 which is nothing if you've done the 'meat' of the problem.
I think it's a very blurred line, and probably has as much to do with the history and consensus style of ascent. There's no real answer. In that respect it's a little like the question of where the line between an easy solo and scramble is drawn - it's purely subjective.
In reply to CJD:
No there isn't.
It's a feeling and an experience.......not a length or a grade.
> hello
>
> I'm sure there's a logical and obvious answer to this.
>
> I'm sure there's a logical and obvious answer to this.
No there isn't.
It's a feeling and an experience.......not a length or a grade.
In reply to WillinLA:
There again, problems at the Buttermilk or high Happy stuff would be full blown routes on UK grit.
> (In reply to Duz Walker)
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> Then again, what about something like High Plains Drifter (sorry, don't boulder much so I can't think of a UK example). I certainly wouldn't want to fall off the top of that, but then it's only about 5.7/5.8 which is nothing if you've done the 'meat' of the problem.
There again, problems at the Buttermilk or high Happy stuff would be full blown routes on UK grit.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
oh.
okay.
> (In reply to CJD)
> [...]
>
> No there isn't.
>
> It's a feeling and an experience.......not a length or a grade.
> [...]
>
> No there isn't.
>
> It's a feeling and an experience.......not a length or a grade.
oh.
okay.
In reply to CJD:
> (In reply to Paz)
>
> the thing that got me thinking about it was skimming through the Scout Hut crag section in the Yorkshire Grit guide, which has lots of 8m problems that are E-graded - if one was to do these with a mat, would, say, the 5m HVS 5c called Coppice Moon become aV1-3 depending on landing? (as an example - I don't know the route)
you might still feel the routes here warrent e grades even above a bouldering mat.>
> the thing that got me thinking about it was skimming through the Scout Hut crag section in the Yorkshire Grit guide, which has lots of 8m problems that are E-graded - if one was to do these with a mat, would, say, the 5m HVS 5c called Coppice Moon become aV1-3 depending on landing? (as an example - I don't know the route)
In reply to Paz:
Permutationn Rib is more amenable as a solo though as the hard climbing is just off the ground and the upper bit is easy in comparison.
> (In reply to Bob)
>
> Fair enough, V4/5 P2/3'd be accurate but it's a fair bit longer than Otley Wall etc. and is a mighty tick for a lot of people. It's a lot less of a highball than Permutation Rib nearby.
>
> Fair enough, V4/5 P2/3'd be accurate but it's a fair bit longer than Otley Wall etc. and is a mighty tick for a lot of people. It's a lot less of a highball than Permutation Rib nearby.
Permutationn Rib is more amenable as a solo though as the hard climbing is just off the ground and the upper bit is easy in comparison.
In reply to WEBBO:
I'm just curious about one thing: how does the landing affect the V grade, surely theres no difference on the grade no matter what the landing is as its not actually on the route?? (I don't know much a bout V grades, so am honestly wondering about this)
> the thing that got me thinking about it was skimming through the Scout Hut crag section in the Yorkshire Grit guide, which has lots of 8m problems that are E-graded - if one was to do these with a mat, would, say, the 5m HVS 5c called Coppice Moon become aV1-3 depending on landing?
I'm just curious about one thing: how does the landing affect the V grade, surely theres no difference on the grade no matter what the landing is as its not actually on the route?? (I don't know much a bout V grades, so am honestly wondering about this)
In reply to CJD: In reply to your original question, for me the limit is when I don't think i could jump off without doing myself some damage. I think Psycho is a good personal example - if it started off the ground it would be of good highballing height and i think I probably would have done it ground up by now. The extra bit of height starting off the boulder adds pushes it into the bottom of the route bracket for me, even with lots of pads, and for the psychological reason I haven't managed to pull myself together enough to do it yet.
In reply to timo.t:
I dunno, I had some idea that V grades took dodgy landings into account, but I think that in reality they don't, but that Font grades do?
I dunno, I had some idea that V grades took dodgy landings into account, but I think that in reality they don't, but that Font grades do?
In reply to CJD:
Correct.
> (In reply to timo.t)
>
> I dunno, I had some idea that V grades took dodgy landings into account, but I think that in reality they don't.
>
> I dunno, I had some idea that V grades took dodgy landings into account, but I think that in reality they don't.
Correct.
In reply to CJD: nope. at least nobody ever told me.
In reply to CJD:
It's like wave/particle duality. A bit of rock can be a highball boulder problem OR a route, according to how we look at it. Or we can think of it as both.
In reality it's a bit of rock.
It's like wave/particle duality. A bit of rock can be a highball boulder problem OR a route, according to how we look at it. Or we can think of it as both.
In reality it's a bit of rock.
In reply to CJD: Highballs in Font are almost always easier for the given grade. I'm not sure whether this is purposeful, or because it's harder to be objective about the difficulty of things when you're worried about hurting yourself!
In reply to CJD: not that I know of, and I don't really think it should, because you could get quite high easy grades and grading would just get even more complicated than it already is...obviously you can mention it in the topo, or just use your own discretion weather its worth it.
In reply to CJD: Hi CJD
My take on it is that the E grades on 8m routes are legacy grades. With the popularity and rise in grades of bouldering, these routes become highball solos, with the e-grade given if you feel the need for protection, however marginal.
My take on it is that the E grades on 8m routes are legacy grades. With the popularity and rise in grades of bouldering, these routes become highball solos, with the e-grade given if you feel the need for protection, however marginal.
In reply to CJD:
Do they need too?
You can see the fall potential whilst stood at the problem of the rock.
One system, not widely used, distinguishes where the crux of a problem is just by the notation OTD, meaning the crux is 'Off The Deck', or high up.
Mick
> (In reply to timo.t)
>
> does *any* bouldering grade system take landings into account?
>
> does *any* bouldering grade system take landings into account?
Do they need too?
You can see the fall potential whilst stood at the problem of the rock.
One system, not widely used, distinguishes where the crux of a problem is just by the notation OTD, meaning the crux is 'Off The Deck', or high up.
Mick
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: I think the OTD notation is very useful, as it is not always obvious wherebouts the crux may come on a highball problem.
On the highball topic, do you know if when Lisa Rands did all those highball problems in Bishop whether she did them ground up or headpoint style?
On the highball topic, do you know if when Lisa Rands did all those highball problems in Bishop whether she did them ground up or headpoint style?
In reply to TimS:
A mix I think Tim. I'll ask her.
> On the highball topic, do you know if when Lisa Rands did all those highball problems in Bishop whether she did them ground up or headpoint style?
A mix I think Tim. I'll ask her.
In reply to CJD:
Hi there.
1) Pads +/- spotters = highball
2) Solo/Lead + beermat = route
.......er.....re. 1) & 2) above......
that's about it, really......
anytime......
HD.
> hello
Hi there.
> when is a problem/route of, say, 8m, a highball boulder problem and when is it a route?
1) Pads +/- spotters = highball
2) Solo/Lead + beermat = route
> For instance, there might be a 6a problem with a nasty landing that might merit it being V4 in 'bouldering' terms, but in 'route' terms its adjectival grade would perhaps be E4 - what decides which grade you use for it?
>.......er.....re. 1) & 2) above......
> I'm sure there's a logical and obvious answer to this.
that's about it, really......
> ta!
anytime......
HD.
In reply to CJD:
My god.
I've skimmed over the first half of the replies and, in a radical change from the usual clueless whittering on this topic, people have actually captured the essence of the distinction and the factors involved. Hurrah for Duz, Paz, Bob, CJD and other people with 3 letters in their name.
My god.
I've skimmed over the first half of the replies and, in a radical change from the usual clueless whittering on this topic, people have actually captured the essence of the distinction and the factors involved. Hurrah for Duz, Paz, Bob, CJD and other people with 3 letters in their name.
In reply to Fiend:
this is my token 6-monthly climbing question. It gives me karma points, redeemable against the usual torrent of rubbish I spout
and Slipstones - Welcome Wall - how on earth does a 4m problem get both tech and adjectival grades? ha ha! will that be a 60m rope or 50m doubles you'll be using on that...
guffaw!
this is my token 6-monthly climbing question. It gives me karma points, redeemable against the usual torrent of rubbish I spout
and Slipstones - Welcome Wall - how on earth does a 4m problem get both tech and adjectival grades? ha ha! will that be a 60m rope or 50m doubles you'll be using on that...
guffaw!
In reply to Fiend:
si! there's an excellent pie shop en route though so all is forgiven. Slipstones and Scugdale are my two most readily-springing-to-mind 'is it a route? is it a problem?' venues.
si! there's an excellent pie shop en route though so all is forgiven. Slipstones and Scugdale are my two most readily-springing-to-mind 'is it a route? is it a problem?' venues.
In reply to CJD:
I'd say a route was something that you are unlikely to survive if you fell off near the top when soloing whereas a highball will probably just hurt a lot; but then I'm not sure I'd classify any totally unprotectable climb as a route.
Ok as a definition - If you have time to coincider the folly of your actions between falling off the route and decking then it is a route, if you only get as far as "oh shi..." the it's a highball.
I'd say a route was something that you are unlikely to survive if you fell off near the top when soloing whereas a highball will probably just hurt a lot; but then I'm not sure I'd classify any totally unprotectable climb as a route.
Ok as a definition - If you have time to coincider the folly of your actions between falling off the route and decking then it is a route, if you only get as far as "oh shi..." the it's a highball.
In reply to CJD: When its Crescent Arete, nothing will convince me its not a route, it certainly feels serious when you are on it, but then again, I dont think I've got my head round 'mats' yet.
In reply to Reach>Talent:
Or maybe it's a boulder problem if you should be OK falling from the top with a mat and a spotter. If you need a team of spotters and multiple mats then it's a short route/highball.
Or maybe it's a boulder problem if you should be OK falling from the top with a mat and a spotter. If you need a team of spotters and multiple mats then it's a short route/highball.
In reply to Al Evans: you'd need quite a lot of 'mats' to do any good if fell from near the top of C.A - definitely in the solo category as far as I'm concerned, even if it is really easy at the top.
In reply to TimS:
>"even if it is really easy at the top"
...and exactly how 'really' easy is a question that gnaws and gnaws at me...
>"even if it is really easy at the top"
...and exactly how 'really' easy is a question that gnaws and gnaws at me...
In reply to JLS: It gets reasonable VS after about two thirds height.
In reply to Al Evans:
I know what you're saying Al, but in my mind (have gotten no further than the start moves) it starts out at VDiff and ends at E2...
I know what you're saying Al, but in my mind (have gotten no further than the start moves) it starts out at VDiff and ends at E2...
In reply to CJD:
When does a highball become a route? When you part company with the top of it
Surely its going to depend largely on the guide you're reading, 'Yorkshire Gritstone' deals mainly with 'routes', Yourkshire Gritstone Bouldering, well, the clue's in the title.
If you know both grades, who decides which you use? You do. A 6m UK 6b could be as you say, E4 or V4. Which to 'chose' depends (in no particular order) how many pads you have, how many spottters, if there's gear, where's the crux, what's the fall like, how brave you feel etc etc... but I'm guessing you know this already.
There is no simple answer and frankly it doesn't matter either. Book V4 but too high to fall off... why not put a cam in then do it safely. Book E3 but with a low crux and easy finish... Stick a pad under it and boulder it. This is the true beauty of Yorkshire Grit
jk
When does a highball become a route? When you part company with the top of it
Surely its going to depend largely on the guide you're reading, 'Yorkshire Gritstone' deals mainly with 'routes', Yourkshire Gritstone Bouldering, well, the clue's in the title.
If you know both grades, who decides which you use? You do. A 6m UK 6b could be as you say, E4 or V4. Which to 'chose' depends (in no particular order) how many pads you have, how many spottters, if there's gear, where's the crux, what's the fall like, how brave you feel etc etc... but I'm guessing you know this already.
There is no simple answer and frankly it doesn't matter either. Book V4 but too high to fall off... why not put a cam in then do it safely. Book E3 but with a low crux and easy finish... Stick a pad under it and boulder it. This is the true beauty of Yorkshire Grit
jk
In reply to TimS: I'd go Highball for C.A. purely for the fact that the crux is in the middle, where one mat would be fine and you would have to try really hard to fall off the top moves after moving through the crux.
Also considering that NTBTA and Careless Torque are regarded as Highball and both are higher off the deck.
I love the HVS 6c grade for Sulky Little boys though!
Guy
Also considering that NTBTA and Careless Torque are regarded as Highball and both are higher off the deck.
I love the HVS 6c grade for Sulky Little boys though!
Guy
In reply to CJD:
hiballs are bouldering made acceptable to the old boys that don't like bouldering and hence they use the "give-a-bouldering-problem-a-route-grade" dodge so they don't have to demeen themselves by bouldering.
well, thats my theory anyhow....
hiballs are bouldering made acceptable to the old boys that don't like bouldering and hence they use the "give-a-bouldering-problem-a-route-grade" dodge so they don't have to demeen themselves by bouldering.
well, thats my theory anyhow....
In reply to Paz:
Permutation rib (the E1 right?) has about 3 tricky moves near the bottom then a wander above, if you can get there you wont fall off. Ok as a 'highball'.
Something like Pshyco has hard moves near the top. Dubious as a 'highball'.
Where does the ball bit comefrom anyway? Why not 'high problem' or 'high boulder' or god forbid 'haute bloc'?
jk
> Fair enough, V4/5 P2/3'd be accurate but it's a fair bit longer than Otley Wall etc. and is a mighty tick for a lot of people. It's a lot less of a highball than Permutation Rib nearby.
Permutation rib (the E1 right?) has about 3 tricky moves near the bottom then a wander above, if you can get there you wont fall off. Ok as a 'highball'.
Something like Pshyco has hard moves near the top. Dubious as a 'highball'.
Where does the ball bit comefrom anyway? Why not 'high problem' or 'high boulder' or god forbid 'haute bloc'?
jk
In reply to Al Evans:
Agreed. Still serious with a mat due to the jaggy uneven landing. Would you willing jump from the crux... no.
jk
> When its Crescent Arete, nothing will convince me its not a route, it certainly feels serious when you are on it, but then again, I dont think I've got my head round 'mats' yet.
Agreed. Still serious with a mat due to the jaggy uneven landing. Would you willing jump from the crux... no.
jk
In reply to Reach>Talent:
I'd say that a route is one that you would rather do with gear because a fall of 5-6m even onto a mat does not appeal.
eg/ The Chant, Spider crack.
PS. I am a coward.
I'd say that a route is one that you would rather do with gear because a fall of 5-6m even onto a mat does not appeal.
eg/ The Chant, Spider crack.
PS. I am a coward.
In reply to CJD:
I guess the answer is how brave you are. I have led The Chant and Spider Crack, both of which appear in Peak Bouldering, but no way would I have the bottle to do them as boulder problems. A 5 metre ground fall does not appeal even onto a mat.
I guess the answer is how brave you are. I have led The Chant and Spider Crack, both of which appear in Peak Bouldering, but no way would I have the bottle to do them as boulder problems. A 5 metre ground fall does not appeal even onto a mat.
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