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I was wondering if anyone on here had any experience of getting professional coaching for their climbing and whether it had helped/was worth the money? Not a beginners course, more this kind of thing: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=260265. Not arsed whether it's done with a climbing 'name' or your wall/an MIA or whatever, just interested in your experiences of coaching courses.
I'm interested in a few things:
1) How did it help your climbing? Was it more mental or physical technique it helped with?
2) Did it work on weaknesses or play to strengths?
3) Did it just improve your climbing briefly or were there substantial and long-lasting improvements?
4) Was it a revelation or were the things you picked up tricks and techniques you would have figured out naturally in the long run?
5) Did you get any tips on the training you needed to do to improve further?
6) Was it worth the money?
Cheers for any help 8-)
I'm interested in a few things:
1) How did it help your climbing? Was it more mental or physical technique it helped with?
2) Did it work on weaknesses or play to strengths?
3) Did it just improve your climbing briefly or were there substantial and long-lasting improvements?
4) Was it a revelation or were the things you picked up tricks and techniques you would have figured out naturally in the long run?
5) Did you get any tips on the training you needed to do to improve further?
6) Was it worth the money?
Cheers for any help 8-)
In reply to climbingpixie:
Yes twice both times helped a lot with things that I use each time I climb.
Some revelations too.
>
Yes twice both times helped a lot with things that I use each time I climb.
>
> I'm interested in a few things:
> 1) How did it help your climbing? Was it more mental or physical technique it helped with?
First time more mental, second more physical> I'm interested in a few things:
> 1) How did it help your climbing? Was it more mental or physical technique it helped with?
> 2) Did it work on weaknesses or play to strengths?
Both> 3) Did it just improve your climbing briefly or were there substantial and long-lasting improvements?
See above! Part of how I climb.> 4) Was it a revelation or were the things you picked up tricks and techniques you would have figured out naturally in the long run?
Well being told about my strengths, it's more analytical than mates saying, you're good at this or that, just more objective I guess. The stuff about my weakessses helped me focus on those areasSome revelations too.
> 5) Did you get any tips on the training you needed to do to improve further?
yes> 6) Was it worth the money?
yes, did not cost much, so yes> Cheers for any help 8-)
In reply to climbingpixie: A good coach understands climbing and moves and can deconstruct what you're doing and point you in the right direction.
This requires knowledge and the ability to communicate, it doesn't require you to climb font8b.
Before anyone goes to a coach I'd suggest they ask themselves what they hope to get out of it, for example are they looking to improve their confidence, gain strength/stamina/power or break their technical 'glass ceiling'?
If you don't know what you want you probably won't get it.
This requires knowledge and the ability to communicate, it doesn't require you to climb font8b.
Before anyone goes to a coach I'd suggest they ask themselves what they hope to get out of it, for example are they looking to improve their confidence, gain strength/stamina/power or break their technical 'glass ceiling'?
If you don't know what you want you probably won't get it.
In reply to rock waif:
Thanks for the reply. It sounds like it was a very positive experience for you. The stuff about having an objective view of your strengths and weaknesses is very interesting, that's one of the things I'd be hoping to get out of a course.
Out of interest how experienced were you when you got coaching?
Thanks for the reply. It sounds like it was a very positive experience for you. The stuff about having an objective view of your strengths and weaknesses is very interesting, that's one of the things I'd be hoping to get out of a course.
Out of interest how experienced were you when you got coaching?
In reply to Anonymous:
Thanks. I think I know what I'd like to get out of coaching, as I said to RW I'd like an objective view of my strengths and weaknesses and advice on how best to use/train them, as well as just general technique critique. Also tips on further training that I could use in future would be very helpful.
Thanks. I think I know what I'd like to get out of coaching, as I said to RW I'd like an objective view of my strengths and weaknesses and advice on how best to use/train them, as well as just general technique critique. Also tips on further training that I could use in future would be very helpful.
In reply to climbingpixie: is emailing you ok, so i can go on about it a bit more?
In reply to climbingpixie:
or you could just go climbing with some friends who climb 8a+ and learn for free?
or you could just go climbing with some friends who climb 8a+ and learn for free?
In reply to philo: In a lot of cases that can work, but there's no guarantee that friends have or can analyse what they do effectively and transmit that knowledge in a useable form.
There are usually coaching sessions ocurring at the limbingworks when I'm down there, and the type of advice seems more specialised than what you get from your mates on a circuit.
There are usually coaching sessions ocurring at the limbingworks when I'm down there, and the type of advice seems more specialised than what you get from your mates on a circuit.
In reply to philo:
Brilliant idea, why didn't I think of that? Oh right, it's because none of my friends climb 8a! And as co1ps says, just because someone climbs hard doesn't mean that they'll be able to pass that knowledge onto you.
Brilliant idea, why didn't I think of that? Oh right, it's because none of my friends climb 8a! And as co1ps says, just because someone climbs hard doesn't mean that they'll be able to pass that knowledge onto you.
In reply to climbingpixie:
I've been to a couple of group coaching sessions at indoor walls. Generally useful but no miracles.
They mostly related to climibng routes indoors. They helped me realise the importance of preparation, reading the route in advance and that 'visualisation' is really useful. Some 'fall' trianing was also done that was very useful to some of the others beng coached who 'wouldn't' fall normally.
Mostly focused on the approach and preparation stuff - don't just jump on a route and expect to get to the top. Not being scared of falling and being able to relax. Applying common sense and working out where the crux is, can you get rests, is it easier to climb past clips and clip low etc.
About 5 years on I'm much better at working out sequences and not getting wrong handed etc. I still dislike falling (espiecially the first time on a route) but I'm pretty ok with it.
A bit of both. A demonstration is far more effective than just reading about something in a book.
Not really. I know what training I need to do - just climb 5 times per week on 7b/7b+!
I didn't pay. I'd say that a couple of hours group session with a good coach is worth it. However, you will then be on diminishing returns - each session after will probably cover less 'new' stuff.
What holds most new/intermediate climbers back is one of four things:
- Lack of confidence.
- Not pushing themselves enough.
- Focusing too much on one type of 'training'/'climbing'.
- Not climbing enough.
Any really 'big' benefit from a coaching session will be from it stimulating a positive change in one of the above. In terms of more expereinced climbers, most know what they need to 'do' to improve (i.e. climb more, train harder) so
unless they're already training really hard and have stopped improving, coaching probably won't be as useful.
In your case I don't think you suffer from any of the common problems. Really pushing yourself and red-pointing harder sport/indoor routes would probably give you a better idea of your physical and technical strengths/weakness. Otherwise, climbing consistently with a variety of good climbers will help you improve much more than any single coaching session will.
HTH
I've been to a couple of group coaching sessions at indoor walls. Generally useful but no miracles.
> I'm interested in a few things:
> 1) How did it help your climbing? Was it more mental or physical technique it helped with?
> 1) How did it help your climbing? Was it more mental or physical technique it helped with?
They mostly related to climibng routes indoors. They helped me realise the importance of preparation, reading the route in advance and that 'visualisation' is really useful. Some 'fall' trianing was also done that was very useful to some of the others beng coached who 'wouldn't' fall normally.
> 2) Did it work on weaknesses or play to strengths?
Mostly focused on the approach and preparation stuff - don't just jump on a route and expect to get to the top. Not being scared of falling and being able to relax. Applying common sense and working out where the crux is, can you get rests, is it easier to climb past clips and clip low etc.
> 3) Did it just improve your climbing briefly or were there substantial and long-lasting improvements?
About 5 years on I'm much better at working out sequences and not getting wrong handed etc. I still dislike falling (espiecially the first time on a route) but I'm pretty ok with it.
> 4) Was it a revelation or were the things you picked up tricks and techniques you would have figured out naturally in the long run?
A bit of both. A demonstration is far more effective than just reading about something in a book.
> 5) Did you get any tips on the training you needed to do to improve further?
Not really. I know what training I need to do - just climb 5 times per week on 7b/7b+!
> 6) Was it worth the money?
I didn't pay. I'd say that a couple of hours group session with a good coach is worth it. However, you will then be on diminishing returns - each session after will probably cover less 'new' stuff.
What holds most new/intermediate climbers back is one of four things:
- Lack of confidence.
- Not pushing themselves enough.
- Focusing too much on one type of 'training'/'climbing'.
- Not climbing enough.
Any really 'big' benefit from a coaching session will be from it stimulating a positive change in one of the above. In terms of more expereinced climbers, most know what they need to 'do' to improve (i.e. climb more, train harder) so
unless they're already training really hard and have stopped improving, coaching probably won't be as useful.
In your case I don't think you suffer from any of the common problems. Really pushing yourself and red-pointing harder sport/indoor routes would probably give you a better idea of your physical and technical strengths/weakness. Otherwise, climbing consistently with a variety of good climbers will help you improve much more than any single coaching session will.
HTH
In reply to climbingpixie:
You could ask this person;
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/profile.php?id=47370
This is who I spent a couple of years intensively coaching, encouraging, cheerleading, psychologically supporting, guiding, choosing the (even the indoor wall!!!) routes for, etc etc etc all for free and at the expense of my own climbing. For free. But she still climbed like a bag of shit and whined all the way, so I guess I didn't do too good a job!
Sxx
Yes, I'm still 'off' climbing...one day, one day maybe.....
Sxx
> I was wondering if anyone on here had any experience of getting professional coaching for their climbing and whether it had helped/was worth the money? Not a beginners course, more this kind of thing: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=260265. Not arsed whether it's done with a climbing 'name' or your wall/an MIA or whatever, just interested in your experiences of coaching courses.
>
> I'm interested in a few things:
> 1) How did it help your climbing? Was it more mental or physical technique it helped with?
> 2) Did it work on weaknesses or play to strengths?
> 3) Did it just improve your climbing briefly or were there substantial and long-lasting improvements?
> 4) Was it a revelation or were the things you picked up tricks and techniques you would have figured out naturally in the long run?
> 5) Did you get any tips on the training you needed to do to improve further?
> 6) Was it worth the money?
>
> Cheers for any help 8-)
>
> I'm interested in a few things:
> 1) How did it help your climbing? Was it more mental or physical technique it helped with?
> 2) Did it work on weaknesses or play to strengths?
> 3) Did it just improve your climbing briefly or were there substantial and long-lasting improvements?
> 4) Was it a revelation or were the things you picked up tricks and techniques you would have figured out naturally in the long run?
> 5) Did you get any tips on the training you needed to do to improve further?
> 6) Was it worth the money?
>
> Cheers for any help 8-)
You could ask this person;
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/profile.php?id=47370
This is who I spent a couple of years intensively coaching, encouraging, cheerleading, psychologically supporting, guiding, choosing the (even the indoor wall!!!) routes for, etc etc etc all for free and at the expense of my own climbing. For free. But she still climbed like a bag of shit and whined all the way, so I guess I didn't do too good a job!
Sxx
Yes, I'm still 'off' climbing...one day, one day maybe.....
Sxx
In reply to Sarah G:
HAving siad all that, I haven't paid anyone to coach me, but I did pay attention to any tips and tricks that came my way and it helped a huge amount- I remember in my early days Colin Binks giving me 10 mins and teaching me some simple exercises I could try out ont he wall to help me with foot placement, balance, moving over the entire face of the rock, getting weight over my feet, clipping in, etc. And Kit was always encouraging in that he encouraged me to have a go at stuff and 'work' a particular move, week after week, until I got it. I learned a lot from watching people and emulating them, too. But as I said, all this was through just climbing with peoiple, not paying for offcial training. From your query though I think you can potentially gain a huge amount from such a paid session- you get all the tips and tricks that some people like me spend years garnering, all in a few hours!
Sxx
HAving siad all that, I haven't paid anyone to coach me, but I did pay attention to any tips and tricks that came my way and it helped a huge amount- I remember in my early days Colin Binks giving me 10 mins and teaching me some simple exercises I could try out ont he wall to help me with foot placement, balance, moving over the entire face of the rock, getting weight over my feet, clipping in, etc. And Kit was always encouraging in that he encouraged me to have a go at stuff and 'work' a particular move, week after week, until I got it. I learned a lot from watching people and emulating them, too. But as I said, all this was through just climbing with peoiple, not paying for offcial training. From your query though I think you can potentially gain a huge amount from such a paid session- you get all the tips and tricks that some people like me spend years garnering, all in a few hours!
Sxx
In reply to climbingpixie:
Hey CP.
Firstly - not exactly a massively insightful thread but....
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=250576&v=1#3691208
I've had 'instruction' for trad climbing recently with a well known climber and it was good value for money. I also went on an organised 'trip' which turned out to be a course which was both good and bad.
In answer to your questions...
I think coaching can help if your a novice or if you are missing something that you perhaps can't see. It can probably help with very specific things. I think it will largely depend on the instructor and if you click with them/if they are a good teacher.
I guess the hard thing is figuring out wether you really need it or not. If it was for something like trying to climb a harder grade I would opt for climbing with harder climbers first before going down the coaching route.
What is that quote about the best teachers teach people how to teach themselves????
Hey CP.
Firstly - not exactly a massively insightful thread but....
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=250576&v=1#3691208
I've had 'instruction' for trad climbing recently with a well known climber and it was good value for money. I also went on an organised 'trip' which turned out to be a course which was both good and bad.
In answer to your questions...
> 1) How did it help your climbing? Was it more mental or physical technique it helped with? It boosted my confidence no end. Gave me tons of psychological, motivational, inspirational and technical advice. Building my feet and intermitant holds being two things. Some safety and practical advice also. I was overclipping lots and some tips on route reading and route finding.
> 2) Did it work on weaknesses or play to strengths? Weaknesses for sure.
> 3) Did it just improve your climbing briefly or were there substantial and long-lasting improvements? I don't think it effected my grade level. But enjoyment/richness of experience or all round aspects were improved. AS someone on my thread pointed out it isn't a 'magic bullet' to the next grade.
> 4) Was it a revelation or were the things you picked up tricks and techniques you would have figured out naturally in the long run? See last comment. I also wanted to add that I have found books to be almost as good in this sense (perhaps for the non technical aspecs.
> 5) Did you get any tips on the training you needed to do to improve further? Not really.
> 6) Was it worth the money? The trad instruction was well worth it. The course left me with mixed feelings. I doubt I would go back to the same company again but the instructor we had on the last day was phenomenal.
> 3) Did it just improve your climbing briefly or were there substantial and long-lasting improvements? I don't think it effected my grade level. But enjoyment/richness of experience or all round aspects were improved. AS someone on my thread pointed out it isn't a 'magic bullet' to the next grade.
> 4) Was it a revelation or were the things you picked up tricks and techniques you would have figured out naturally in the long run? See last comment. I also wanted to add that I have found books to be almost as good in this sense (perhaps for the non technical aspecs.
> 5) Did you get any tips on the training you needed to do to improve further? Not really.
> 6) Was it worth the money? The trad instruction was well worth it. The course left me with mixed feelings. I doubt I would go back to the same company again but the instructor we had on the last day was phenomenal.
I think coaching can help if your a novice or if you are missing something that you perhaps can't see. It can probably help with very specific things. I think it will largely depend on the instructor and if you click with them/if they are a good teacher.
I guess the hard thing is figuring out wether you really need it or not. If it was for something like trying to climb a harder grade I would opt for climbing with harder climbers first before going down the coaching route.
What is that quote about the best teachers teach people how to teach themselves????
In reply to climbingpixie:
I spent a day with Adrian Berry. The chap who was meant to share the cost dropped out so it was a little dear but well worth it.
He gives you a detailed debrief on your strengths and weaknesses after your session and recommends aspects to work on/equipment issues etc.
The session helped me overcome falsely percived barriers so I am now onsighting E2. This has been a sustained improvement.
I spent a day with Adrian Berry. The chap who was meant to share the cost dropped out so it was a little dear but well worth it.
He gives you a detailed debrief on your strengths and weaknesses after your session and recommends aspects to work on/equipment issues etc.
The session helped me overcome falsely percived barriers so I am now onsighting E2. This has been a sustained improvement.
In reply to ouch:
I briefly joined one at the Westway a few years back. It was fascinating stuff, mainly centred around a typical Dawes sequences of impossible looking flowing moves - but within 10 minutes or so, you could see the improvement within his group. Totally different to anything else out there, I suspect, but no less effective for that. Might be one for the jaded ones to reawaken their movement skills.
> (In reply to climbingpixie)
>
>
>
> Has anyone been on a workshop with Johnny Dawes?
>
>
>
> Has anyone been on a workshop with Johnny Dawes?
I briefly joined one at the Westway a few years back. It was fascinating stuff, mainly centred around a typical Dawes sequences of impossible looking flowing moves - but within 10 minutes or so, you could see the improvement within his group. Totally different to anything else out there, I suspect, but no less effective for that. Might be one for the jaded ones to reawaken their movement skills.
In reply to Sarah G:
I agree you can get a lot out of just climbing with different people, especially better climbers. I've learnt a lot from my partners this year and I'm very grateful for that. I just wondered whether there was that much difference getting help from someone who's skilled in analysing movement. The idea of getting 'distilled experience' is also attractive!
I agree you can get a lot out of just climbing with different people, especially better climbers. I've learnt a lot from my partners this year and I'm very grateful for that. I just wondered whether there was that much difference getting help from someone who's skilled in analysing movement. The idea of getting 'distilled experience' is also attractive!
In reply to tommyzero:
I wouldn't say I 'needed' coaching, I'm very happy with how my climbing's going. And it's not to improve on my grade really, it's more that I'm just getting to the point where improvements are harder won now and I thought coaching might be helpful for picking up bad habits and providing some direction. I suspect Mark Stevenson might have been right though when he said what I really need to do is go to the wall a lot and work harder.
> I guess the hard thing is figuring out wether you really need it or not. If it was for something like trying to climb a harder grade I would opt for climbing with harder climbers first before going down the coaching route.
I wouldn't say I 'needed' coaching, I'm very happy with how my climbing's going. And it's not to improve on my grade really, it's more that I'm just getting to the point where improvements are harder won now and I thought coaching might be helpful for picking up bad habits and providing some direction. I suspect Mark Stevenson might have been right though when he said what I really need to do is go to the wall a lot and work harder.
In reply to climbingpixie:
good article on how to train, ie not just climbing more
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=184
good article on how to train, ie not just climbing more
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=184
In reply to climbingpixie:
My very generous sister took me on a coaching session with Adrian Berry focusing on trad leading on gritstone this weekend.
He started off by using bouldering to identify our weeknesses which were poor footwork and complete inability to cope with moving above gear/trusting gear we placed.
He knew our strengths so worked completely on our weaknesses sorting out my footwork first and then when I said I wasn't too happy with jamming sent me up left unconquerable!
He avoided direct instruction and tried to get us thinking about what to do for example he'd give suggestions like "now is there any gear?", "are you happy with that placement?" "now what do you need to do?" etc so that when he wasn't there we'd know what to think about and be able to apply his teaching in his absence.
My footwork had always let me down, as had my head whilst leading outdoors, I was aware of this but not how to resolve either one. He introduced to me the concept of not looking for the next hand holds but to climb primarily based on where the footholds were which may be obvious to some people but is something I'd never done. Taking a big fall on cams that I placed was something I'd never done but will feel more confident having done so in the future.
As I am going on a sport climbing trip in october I aske him about the current training I was doing and whether or not it was suitable and he gave some good advice and suggested a session taking falls etc which I'd planned to do already. I guess if you were looking for some specific advice he would be very helpful having trained to lead E10!
I was very lucky to have the session paid for as a birthday gift however I think I would definately pay £75 for another day like it in the future. He was with us from 10am to 6pm so if you work out the hourly rate I think it is excellent value for money.
Before the session I had hoped that he would be able to get me up some HVS or improve my leading ability so that I was confident at VS. But having watched me boulder he threw me straight onto E1s which I found taxing but within my capability and I now have every intention of attempting those routes which I thought way beyond me.
It wasn't his intention to have me fall onto gear however I took too long pondering the crux of left unconquerable and messed it up taking a fall onto two cams below my feet which I think for me was possibly equally beneficial to climbing the routes in the first place as it was my first large fall and it felt ok. At the time of the fall the most important thing that happened for me was that I wasn't thinking "holy cr@p I'm going to die" or "that gear isn't going to hold" I was annoyed at not getting the move. The fall was something I only noticed when the gear held and I was 5m from where I fell!
All in all it was a hugely beneficial experience for me.
My very generous sister took me on a coaching session with Adrian Berry focusing on trad leading on gritstone this weekend.
> 1) How did it help your climbing? Was it more mental or physical technique it helped with?
He started off by using bouldering to identify our weeknesses which were poor footwork and complete inability to cope with moving above gear/trusting gear we placed.
> 2) Did it work on weaknesses or play to strengths?
He knew our strengths so worked completely on our weaknesses sorting out my footwork first and then when I said I wasn't too happy with jamming sent me up left unconquerable!
> 3) Did it just improve your climbing briefly or were there substantial and long-lasting improvements?
He avoided direct instruction and tried to get us thinking about what to do for example he'd give suggestions like "now is there any gear?", "are you happy with that placement?" "now what do you need to do?" etc so that when he wasn't there we'd know what to think about and be able to apply his teaching in his absence.
> 4) Was it a revelation or were the things you picked up tricks and techniques you would have figured out naturally in the long run?
My footwork had always let me down, as had my head whilst leading outdoors, I was aware of this but not how to resolve either one. He introduced to me the concept of not looking for the next hand holds but to climb primarily based on where the footholds were which may be obvious to some people but is something I'd never done. Taking a big fall on cams that I placed was something I'd never done but will feel more confident having done so in the future.
> 5) Did you get any tips on the training you needed to do to improve further?
As I am going on a sport climbing trip in october I aske him about the current training I was doing and whether or not it was suitable and he gave some good advice and suggested a session taking falls etc which I'd planned to do already. I guess if you were looking for some specific advice he would be very helpful having trained to lead E10!
> 6) Was it worth the money?
I was very lucky to have the session paid for as a birthday gift however I think I would definately pay £75 for another day like it in the future. He was with us from 10am to 6pm so if you work out the hourly rate I think it is excellent value for money.
Before the session I had hoped that he would be able to get me up some HVS or improve my leading ability so that I was confident at VS. But having watched me boulder he threw me straight onto E1s which I found taxing but within my capability and I now have every intention of attempting those routes which I thought way beyond me.
It wasn't his intention to have me fall onto gear however I took too long pondering the crux of left unconquerable and messed it up taking a fall onto two cams below my feet which I think for me was possibly equally beneficial to climbing the routes in the first place as it was my first large fall and it felt ok. At the time of the fall the most important thing that happened for me was that I wasn't thinking "holy cr@p I'm going to die" or "that gear isn't going to hold" I was annoyed at not getting the move. The fall was something I only noticed when the gear held and I was 5m from where I fell!
All in all it was a hugely beneficial experience for me.
In reply to climbingpixie: hiya, Dave MacLeod does coaching and seems quite reasonable. I am just trying to organise some coaching with him. Big Al
In reply to alandougan:
I got a lesson from Dave MacLeod about 18 months ago, and it was great. Best climbing-related money I've spent, despite it 'seeming' expensive. (it's not really - I felt I definitely got what I paid for and didn't grudge the expense at all) He is very observant, knowledgeable, articulate, helpful and encouraging and his pedigree need not be stated! The good thing about his lessons is that, at least when I had mine, they last as long as you can! After the lesson, I got a full personal written analysis of what my weaknesses were, how to improve them and a pretty much personalised training regime.
Of course, whether you do what your coach tells you to afterwards is another matter!
> (In reply to climbingpixie) hiya, Dave MacLeod does coaching and seems quite reasonable. I am just trying to organise some coaching with him. Big Al
I got a lesson from Dave MacLeod about 18 months ago, and it was great. Best climbing-related money I've spent, despite it 'seeming' expensive. (it's not really - I felt I definitely got what I paid for and didn't grudge the expense at all) He is very observant, knowledgeable, articulate, helpful and encouraging and his pedigree need not be stated! The good thing about his lessons is that, at least when I had mine, they last as long as you can! After the lesson, I got a full personal written analysis of what my weaknesses were, how to improve them and a pretty much personalised training regime.
Of course, whether you do what your coach tells you to afterwards is another matter!
In reply to Fraser:
A mate of mine spent a day with Dave MacLeod and thought it was great.
Have met Adrian Berry in Spain and was really impressed.
Mick
A mate of mine spent a day with Dave MacLeod and thought it was great.
Have met Adrian Berry in Spain and was really impressed.
Mick
In reply to Fraser:
Oops, to answer the questions in the OP:
1) How did it help your climbing? Was it more mental or physical technique it helped with?
Both, as they're equally important. Also good advice on injury avoidance and recovery.
2) Did it work on weaknesses or play to strengths?
Mostly weaknesses revealed and how to improve them. He did mention strengths, but it's really about what you're doing wrong and why it's wrong (or could be improved) and how to maximise your potential.
3) Did it just improve your climbing briefly or were there substantial and long-lasting improvements?
Would like to think long-lasting. My indoor on-sight ability has improved by probably 1-2 grades, following the pre-lesson "plateau" I felt I'd reached and couldn't break through.
4) Was it a revelation or were the things you picked up tricks and techniques you would have figured out naturally in the long run?
Some revelation, sometimes stating the obvious too though.
5) Did you get any tips on the training you needed to do to improve further?
Yes, plenty. The key one being just try as hard as you possibly can. Keep making one more move! If you don't really push yourself 100%, you'll never get much better.
6) Was it worth the money?
Absolutely.
Oops, to answer the questions in the OP:
1) How did it help your climbing? Was it more mental or physical technique it helped with?
Both, as they're equally important. Also good advice on injury avoidance and recovery.
2) Did it work on weaknesses or play to strengths?
Mostly weaknesses revealed and how to improve them. He did mention strengths, but it's really about what you're doing wrong and why it's wrong (or could be improved) and how to maximise your potential.
3) Did it just improve your climbing briefly or were there substantial and long-lasting improvements?
Would like to think long-lasting. My indoor on-sight ability has improved by probably 1-2 grades, following the pre-lesson "plateau" I felt I'd reached and couldn't break through.
4) Was it a revelation or were the things you picked up tricks and techniques you would have figured out naturally in the long run?
Some revelation, sometimes stating the obvious too though.
5) Did you get any tips on the training you needed to do to improve further?
Yes, plenty. The key one being just try as hard as you possibly can. Keep making one more move! If you don't really push yourself 100%, you'll never get much better.
6) Was it worth the money?
Absolutely.
In reply to climbingpixie:
Well it's probably worth bearing in mind that none of the coaches (or many/most other top climbers) were ever coached by professional coaches themselves.
Most are self taught and learn by watching others and talking to others. If you want to improve then I'd say first read a good book on the subject like Performance Rock Climbing - old now but definitely not out of date.
You can also get you're climbing friends to coach you - and you coach them which is an excellent way to learn as gets you into a creative thinking process.
Finally just climb more. I'm convinced most people would improve if they simply climbed more - though you may need to rearrange your life to do so.
If you've got money to throw away on hiring a coach it probably means you're working too much and not climbing enough. Save up a bit more and take a 6 month trip to Europe. That'll improve your climbing far more than any amount of coaching.
Well it's probably worth bearing in mind that none of the coaches (or many/most other top climbers) were ever coached by professional coaches themselves.
Most are self taught and learn by watching others and talking to others. If you want to improve then I'd say first read a good book on the subject like Performance Rock Climbing - old now but definitely not out of date.
You can also get you're climbing friends to coach you - and you coach them which is an excellent way to learn as gets you into a creative thinking process.
Finally just climb more. I'm convinced most people would improve if they simply climbed more - though you may need to rearrange your life to do so.
If you've got money to throw away on hiring a coach it probably means you're working too much and not climbing enough. Save up a bit more and take a 6 month trip to Europe. That'll improve your climbing far more than any amount of coaching.
In reply to stp:
Good point and I agre that probably the best answer is to just climb more, but don't you think coaching might help some people who don't want to/can't (due to family commitments etc) reduce their working hours in oder to allow this? Some people are in this position and still want to push their grade as far as poss...
> (In reply to climbingpixie)
>
> Finally just climb more. I'm convinced most people would improve if they simply climbed more - though you may need to rearrange your life to do so.
>
> If you've got money to throw away on hiring a coach it probably means you're working too much and not climbing enough. Save up a bit more and take a 6 month trip to Europe. That'll improve your climbing far more than any amount of coaching.
>
> Finally just climb more. I'm convinced most people would improve if they simply climbed more - though you may need to rearrange your life to do so.
>
> If you've got money to throw away on hiring a coach it probably means you're working too much and not climbing enough. Save up a bit more and take a 6 month trip to Europe. That'll improve your climbing far more than any amount of coaching.
Good point and I agre that probably the best answer is to just climb more, but don't you think coaching might help some people who don't want to/can't (due to family commitments etc) reduce their working hours in oder to allow this? Some people are in this position and still want to push their grade as far as poss...
In reply to Fraser: hi, thats good to know thanks. I'm a newcomer and think it might be very benficial at this early stage. I also think it will help my confidence. Big al
In reply to climbingpixie:
Strengths: All over strong and fit, determined, inspired.
Weaknesses: Midget, impatient for progress, relative beginner.
Recommendation: Be patient, take your time, progress steadily, grow a few inches.
You can buy me a pint next time we meet .
> The stuff about having an objective view of your strengths and weaknesses is very interesting, that's one of the things I'd be hoping to get out of a course.
Strengths: All over strong and fit, determined, inspired.
Weaknesses: Midget, impatient for progress, relative beginner.
Recommendation: Be patient, take your time, progress steadily, grow a few inches.
You can buy me a pint next time we meet .
In reply to stp:
Read it and found it very useful.
Have had some very good coaching from friends over the last 10 months - gone from leading HS to leading HVS/E1 fairly happily. Hadn't thought about coaching being a two way process before so thanks for that 8-)
I climb every weekend when it's not raining and go to the wall at least one evening a week (Helsby/Pex when the weather's good and there's enough light). Pretty much all my holiday time this year has been spent climbing.
As much as I'd love to do that it's unlikely to happen any time soon as I'm saving up to do a masters next year. At a uni in close proximity to great climbing of course...
I'm not looking for a magic bullet to improve my grade, I'm interested in having someone with an eye for movement picking out my weaknesses/bad habits, giving me tips and tricks to climb more efficiently and helping me direct my training. But I reckon Mark Stevenson was probably right above when he said that I should just keep climbing a lot and working hard stuff at the wall - coaching's not going to be a substitute for hard work but a lot of the above posters seemed to have had positive experiences.
> If you want to improve then I'd say first read a good book on the subject like Performance Rock Climbing - old now but definitely not out of date.
Read it and found it very useful.
> You can also get you're climbing friends to coach you - and you coach them which is an excellent way to learn as gets you into a creative thinking process.
Have had some very good coaching from friends over the last 10 months - gone from leading HS to leading HVS/E1 fairly happily. Hadn't thought about coaching being a two way process before so thanks for that 8-)
> Finally just climb more. I'm convinced most people would improve if they simply climbed more - though you may need to rearrange your life to do so.
I climb every weekend when it's not raining and go to the wall at least one evening a week (Helsby/Pex when the weather's good and there's enough light). Pretty much all my holiday time this year has been spent climbing.
> If you've got money to throw away on hiring a coach it probably means you're working too much and not climbing enough. Save up a bit more and take a 6 month trip to Europe. That'll improve your climbing far more than any amount of coaching.
As much as I'd love to do that it's unlikely to happen any time soon as I'm saving up to do a masters next year. At a uni in close proximity to great climbing of course...
I'm not looking for a magic bullet to improve my grade, I'm interested in having someone with an eye for movement picking out my weaknesses/bad habits, giving me tips and tricks to climb more efficiently and helping me direct my training. But I reckon Mark Stevenson was probably right above when he said that I should just keep climbing a lot and working hard stuff at the wall - coaching's not going to be a substitute for hard work but a lot of the above posters seemed to have had positive experiences.
In reply to climbingpixie: Send me an email if you like - I could go on for hours about different coaches, one-to-one sessions, coaching holidays, etc.
Cheers
Cheers
In reply to Fiend:
LOL, alright I'll buy you a pint (you're certainly a lot cheaper than Adrian Berry). But the weaknesses bit is frustrating - I can't help being an inexperienced impatient midget 8-(
LOL, alright I'll buy you a pint (you're certainly a lot cheaper than Adrian Berry). But the weaknesses bit is frustrating - I can't help being an inexperienced impatient midget 8-(
In reply to stp:
Agree - though assumes both are competent at coaching.
Again would agree. Great for relaxing/getting your head together - especially for trad.
Hmm... a bit dismissive (defamatory?) to coaches. My experience is that most people (in all areas of life) become trapped in their experience. Very often a skilled intervention is required to free them from the trap.
Could well be. Big lifestyle change though for most. Fractured career.
Mick (whose career is fractured into smithereens)
> (In reply to climbingpixie)
> You can also get you're climbing friends to coach you - and you coach them which is an excellent way to learn as gets you into a creative thinking process.
Agree - though assumes both are competent at coaching.
> Finally just climb more. I'm convinced most people would improve if they simply climbed more
Again would agree. Great for relaxing/getting your head together - especially for trad.
> If you've got money to throw away on hiring a coach it probably means you're working too much and not climbing enough.
Hmm... a bit dismissive (defamatory?) to coaches. My experience is that most people (in all areas of life) become trapped in their experience. Very often a skilled intervention is required to free them from the trap.
> Save up a bit more and take a 6 month trip to Europe. That'll improve your climbing far more than any amount of coaching.
Could well be. Big lifestyle change though for most. Fractured career.
Mick (whose career is fractured into smithereens)
In reply to climbingpixie:
I think it's important to climb with people who have the same desire to progress as yourself. It's quite possible for climbing partners to hold you back.
Are you still progressing?
I sure you'll learn something from a good coach (or even a bad one for that matter). And if you can afford it then why not I suppose?
Another very good way to learn about movement is simply to watch good climbers. With all the climbing vids available now you can do easily passively at home in front of the box. Try to emulate different climbing styles when you climb and see how it feels.
> (In reply to stp)
> Have had some very good coaching from friends over the last 10 months - gone from leading HS to leading HVS/E1 fairly happily.
I think it's important to climb with people who have the same desire to progress as yourself. It's quite possible for climbing partners to hold you back.
> I climb every weekend ...
Are you still progressing?
> I'm not looking for a magic bullet to improve my grade, I'm interested in having someone with an eye for movement picking out my weaknesses/bad habits, giving me tips and tricks to climb more efficiently and helping me direct my training.
I sure you'll learn something from a good coach (or even a bad one for that matter). And if you can afford it then why not I suppose?
Another very good way to learn about movement is simply to watch good climbers. With all the climbing vids available now you can do easily passively at home in front of the box. Try to emulate different climbing styles when you climb and see how it feels.
In reply to Mick Ward:
Well I don't think you need to be an expert to pass on thoughts or advice. I climbed with french climber Marc Le Menestrel many years ago and he thought all climbers should coach each other all the time. Although he was a brilliant climber he was always watching other climbers and seeing what he could learn from them, making comments about their style etc.
Not intentional. Actually my friend coached Tyler Landerman who seems to be climbing pretty well these days.
Fair point.
> (In reply to stp)
>
> Agree - though assumes both are competent at coaching.
>
> Agree - though assumes both are competent at coaching.
Well I don't think you need to be an expert to pass on thoughts or advice. I climbed with french climber Marc Le Menestrel many years ago and he thought all climbers should coach each other all the time. Although he was a brilliant climber he was always watching other climbers and seeing what he could learn from them, making comments about their style etc.
> Hmm... a bit dismissive (defamatory?) to coaches.
Not intentional. Actually my friend coached Tyler Landerman who seems to be climbing pretty well these days.
> Very often a skilled intervention is required to free them from the trap.
Fair point.
In reply to stp:
Depending on who your friends are this can be of greater or less value. A genuine maestro can make a huge difference I think, because they pick up on what you've got and build on that constructively and point out the negative things without making you feel inadequate in any way. And you can have total confidence in their judgement. Well that's been my experience anyway.
>
> You can also get you're climbing friends to coach you
> You can also get you're climbing friends to coach you
Depending on who your friends are this can be of greater or less value. A genuine maestro can make a huge difference I think, because they pick up on what you've got and build on that constructively and point out the negative things without making you feel inadequate in any way. And you can have total confidence in their judgement. Well that's been my experience anyway.
In reply to stp:
The act of payment means that you 'pay' far more credence to the advice of a coach/consultant/expert (whatever the quality of the advice) compared to the cheap advice of friends and books. Its human nature.
The act of payment means that you 'pay' far more credence to the advice of a coach/consultant/expert (whatever the quality of the advice) compared to the cheap advice of friends and books. Its human nature.
In reply to stp: Actually my friend coached Tyler Landerman who seems to be climbing pretty well these days.
"Pretty" well - no pun intended ?
"Pretty" well - no pun intended ?
In reply to stp:
Cheers. I'm still progressing pretty well at my climbing, better than I'd expected really. I try to do at least one route that pushes me, either physically or mentally, on all my climbing days. And I don't think my partners hold me back - I find all of them very inspiring, regardless of what grade they climb. Formal coaching is just another way of learning I'm investigating.
Agree about the videos. Watching Stone Monkey gave me a better appreciation of initiating movement from the hips than reading or being told about about it ever had!
Cheers. I'm still progressing pretty well at my climbing, better than I'd expected really. I try to do at least one route that pushes me, either physically or mentally, on all my climbing days. And I don't think my partners hold me back - I find all of them very inspiring, regardless of what grade they climb. Formal coaching is just another way of learning I'm investigating.
Agree about the videos. Watching Stone Monkey gave me a better appreciation of initiating movement from the hips than reading or being told about about it ever had!
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