UKC

Literature I read recently advocates the Yosemite bowline as the safest knot to tie in to the end of a rope or ropes. It's also simple and not too bulky. Does anyone else in the UK use this? I've always tied in with a figure of eight followed through and finished with an overhand knot or tucked through. I agree though, that this is bulky. Thoughts welcomed.

In reply to taylori: I guy I used to climb with used this knot all the time, seemed too complex to me.....

hmmm I fancy some haggis and swede...

In reply to dingbat46: I thought it was complex 'til I tried it It's actually much simpler than a F of E.

In reply to taylori:

I use it on and off. It's good, easy to tie and undo, but I struggle to be entirely at ease climbing on an unfamiliar knot ;(

In reply to taylori:
The yosemite finish to a standard bowline is a new one on me. But without having yet 'got practical with it' doesn't it defeat the oft-cited object of tying in with a knot that is easily untied after shock loading?

In reply to Andy Say:

From what I've experienced it seems to be easier to untie than a Fo8 after loading.

In reply to taylori: used by tree surgens the world over!!!! need i say more,

it was a tree surgen that showed it to me.

Mk

In reply to taylori:
Good rant/opinion on this link: http://www.trailspace.com/forums/climbing/topics/25044.html
I use the Yosemite bowline since a friend showed it to me, mainly because its quick to tie and untie, easier to release after load, and when untied leaves no knot on the rope that can be pulled up an caught.

But at the end of the day, if the knot's safe, its personal preference.

In reply to timjones:

I've come to use the double bowline (bowline with two loops instead of one) with yosemite finish as my normal tie-in knot. It's cracking - quicker to tie I think than fig-8 once you get it sussed - easy to untie after loading.

Took me a while to get to trust it which was also a good mental exercise - there's knowing something's safe and there's knowing something's safe!

In reply to taylori: I tie on with a bowline. i dont know whether this is differant to the yosemite bowline. It's fine aslong as you have a stopper knot. I am normally tied on and untied before my belayer can put me on/ take me off belay. i would definately recomend it for single pitcj crags.

In reply to taylori:

use it all the time

In reply to Franco cookson:
Nope. The yosemite bowline doesn't have a stopper. Its a 'normal' bowline-as-we-know-it but with the tail threaded back through the loop, similar to the way that you can 'finish' a fig 8.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yosemite_bowline

In reply to Andy Say: well in that case, no i dont use it, but looks interesting.

In reply to taylori: I use the yosemite bowline with a simple stopper knot above it for sport climbing. I use a figure of 8 for trad, because someone once showed me that cross-loading a bowline can turn it into a slipknot. I've never managed to repeat this case myself, but better safe than sorry. Bowlines are infinitely easier to untie after a lead fall than figures of 8. Incidentally, the reason I used this knot is because I'm a caver, where it is pretty much standard, as the ropes are often constantly loaded and jumared up, which makes figures of 8 near-impossible to undo. I personally think that more climbers should know the rethreaded bowline on a bight too - it's a great way of equalising belays.

In reply to taylori: I used to just use a bowline but then converted to a yosemite bowline which I now prefer. Finish it off with a stopper. Great knot.

In reply to taylori:

i use a bowline with two loops instead of just the one, then a stopper, easier to untie than the yosemite bowline

In reply to Andy Say: I bet it's not really that new to you Andy, it's in the BMC Knots booklet as the Bowline Variant. I use it all the time and find it easy to tie because it's just one extra turn and tuck from a normal Bowline, but I still put a stopper on it.

In reply to taylori:

apart from leaving the loop free of stopper knots and possibly easier to belay from, clip into, etc, is there an advantage of it over a bowline with a stopper?

In reply to nikinko:

It's a more stable/secure knot than a bowline; because of the extra nip provided by the last tuck it will stay done up. That's why the BMC knots booklet says it doesn't need a stopper (although I always use one anyway).

You also get the advantage that the extra turn at the neck makes it far less likely to pull apart, the same as you get with the double bowline.

In reply to taylori:

i use the 'edwards' bowline.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=4

looks hideously compilcated, but isn't once you know it.

very fast & easy to tie, no stopper required and is very easily undone after being loaded.

In reply to taylori:

Never heard of this knot untill today and it looks fine.

I've used a bowline with a half fisherman's stopper knot now for the last 12 years and love it.




Long gone are the days of fighting with a shock-loaded figure of eight

In reply to The Lemming:

I was told not to use this knot by a memeber of staff at a wall on Sunday because they often come undone!

I presume he meant that they wanted me to use a rethreaded figure of eight or bowline with a conventional stopper because all of their staff know how to tie and check those

In reply to taylori: It's a fine knot but has few advantages over a bowline with a stopper knot which has a longer history of use and is more recognised (so less likely to worry prospective climbing partners or floor walkers at walls).

In reply to timjones: Could you expand at all? Was that the only comment you got from him?

I find knots usually come undone, but normally only when I've finished with them!

In reply:

Here are three simple re-tuckings of the bowline's (also Dbl.bowline's) end that all give
enhanced security against its coming untied.
[url]http://i3.tinypic.com/wjwh1t.jpg[/url]

The 3rd one ("Janus Bowline") was introduced in the Alpine club's journal
in 1928 by Wright & Magowan. The first one (EBDB) is the most secure,
esp. if the legs of the eye are pulled apart (say, around a large tree).

*knudeNoggin*

In reply to mike swann:

The reason that they gave was quite literally was that they were many reports of such knots coming undone. I have no problem with walls reatricting the range of knots that you can use to make their floor-walkers job easier, I do get fed-up when they start quoting erroneous reasons to justify this decision.

I bit my tongue and took it as I'd already been told off for daring to solo 18 inches off the floor whilst demonstrating the technique of bridging to a youngster who was climbing with us ;(

In reply to Craig Geddes:

I think it has a major advantage over a bowline with a stopper. If I'm belaying off the rope loop and/or tieing back to this loop when setting up a belay I prefer to have a clear loop with no stopper knots on it. It removes the risk of either tieing back to the wrong loop or inadvertantly loosening your stopper knot.

In reply to Craig Geddes: Well I've fallen about 40ft onto a bowline with a stopper and used that set-up for many years. However, one wall did not allow me to climb with it. Floor walkers do not seem to like bowlines - even with stoppers. Converted to the yosemite bowline a few years ago which I now prefer and do not now have any problems from floor walkers - except from the aforementioned wall which requires a figure of 8 only. But I no longer frequent that place.

In reply gym-req'd Fig.8:
Perhaps one way to subtly avoid issues with the Fig.8 loopknot is to re-thread this
>>>from the opposite ("wrong") end--by the live end strand<<<. This will yield
a knot that is more easily loosened & untied than the conventional Fig.8 LK, but
will show, when untied awaiting the next climber's tying in, the same single Fig.8
in the rope, and of course look much like the req'd knot in use to casual checking.
(The same approach works with the Overhand loopknot, rethreading as if tying an
EDK. Tying this overhand version is show here: [url]i1.tinypic.com/2z3z8ts.jpg[/url] )

*kN*