UKC

Went out bouldering this afternoon at Stanage with a mate who likes to dyno his way through problems.

Now what I discovered is that I'm not very good at it. I'm not tall so I tend to avoid them and I seem to favour dyno-ing with my right whereas he could land them with either hand.

In fact I wasn't allowed to tick one dyno problem when I managed it staticly and I was made to do it with a dyno.

Can you dyno with either hand? Do you favour latching with one hand in particular?

I always thought to much dyno-ing was bad for the shoulders in the long term.

J

In reply to Ropeboy:

(Bear in mind I'm a novice, and don't really know what I'm talking about)

I tend to dyno to latch with my right hand, because I am very right-handed - but I am trying to work on this - even stupid little things like doing juggling tricks the opposite way round to improve left-handed co-ordination.

And exercise on a rowing machine, with separate grips for each hand, rather than one grip shared, should make your weaker arm have to keep up with your stronger arm. If you do weights, then similar. Use a separate dumb-bell for each hand.

Did a small dyno at Brimham last weekend, but can't remember which hand I grabbed with, 'cos I was too busy making sure I kept my glasses on when I clipped a corner of them on the rock-face... oops.. (All I know was I heard mutters behind me of "nice dyno", making me very nervous 'cos there were lots of more experienced climber watching me...) However, dunno if I'd have gone for it with the left, so it was probably the right.

In reply to Ropeboy:

In my oppinion shock-loading your joints while dinoing has to hurt.

I'm no doctor or physioterrorist but from my own experiences they can hurt and take some time to recover from. However I am now in my thirties and things aint what they used to be especially drinking. It now takes a whole day to recover from a hang-over.

I think I'll fetch my pipe and sloppers now and pop on some Max Bygraves.

In reply to Ropeboy:

Classic Dynos in Yorkshire on www.yorkshiregrit.com

Earl, John Dunnes Slap
Crookrise, Rons Crease
Slipstones, Wall right of Overhanging Arete
Sypeland, Breaking out
Widdop/Clattering stones Boulder 3, Morning Sickness.

All Photos and some videos.

When you dyno the key is commitment, if theres a speck of doubt you'll probably hesitate and miss it.

In reply to Ropeboy:


I tend to climb in a slappy style, and do loads of dynos, and i've not yet noticed any problems. However I've always climbed in this style, so i may have built-up some sort of resistance to this kind of injury, maybe. I recon its more likely to do you damage if you don't naturally dyno but then suddenly try lots of 'em.

In contrast, it tends to hurt my shoulders more when i try and climb in a static fashion!

In reply to daveP:

That's because when making static moves you can crank harder and on smaller holds than you can when you dyno. This tends to put more stress on the shoulder muscles (and the other muscles in the arm too).

In answer to the original question, at 6' i don't tend to have to dyno too often but i've found that since putting a pull-up bar in my house, my strength is more equally distributed. Also, the one thing that i got taught a long time ago was actually how to dyno - you need to reach the static point (where you're not going up or coming down again) just as your hand is at the hold you need to get to. That way you put less stress on everything because you aren't shockloading it as much (i.e: trying to hang it when you're on your way back down for example).

Other things that can help with dynoing are finding a relatively easy one at the indoor wall and experimenting with going up with either hand. You soon work out body positions and it can often be easier to go with the weaker hand - especially if the starting hold is better than the one you're going for. Also, use your feet, don't just launch for it and forget that you have legs. Flailing them around isn't gonna help but keeping weight on them if you can is good. Lastly, don't bounce up and down repeatedly trying to muster up some momentum for the jump, it doesn't work like that. Drop down once and then immediately pull through and go for it. You get less tired this way.

In reply to everyone:

are we all clear on what a dyno is?

quent's dyno - yes

john dunne slap - no

its all about points of contact

laterzz

m@

In reply to m@:

dyno - dynamic movement. That's it. It covers everything that isn't static from a little pop to a no points of contact superman job.

In reply to anonymouse:

i beg to differ.

not that it matters.

jason myres wrote quite a good article on this a few years back in ote.

laterzz

m@

In reply to m@:

So come on then why is JDS not a dyno?

How many points of contact must come off the rock?

In reply to Ropeboy:

My dyno checklist:
Feet as high as possible
toes out in frog position if possible
Don't pump up and down
Relax
PUSH 100% with legs -- this is hard but it's what gets you amazing height -- you have to recruit every fiber in your leg muscles. Pretend you are jumping for a 50/50 header or a basketball hoop. You see so many people just wimpily pulling with their arms and saying they can't do dynos. Jumping high is about legs not height. Spud Webb was the NBA slam dunking champion several years back. He is 5'7".

If you're REALLY recruiting your leg muscles you won't have to worry about shoulder issues because hitting the deadpoint is super easy -- you're usually still going up when you nab the hold!

Disclaimer: I still can't do the Buckstone Dyno.

In reply to Ropeboy:

My dyno checklist:
Feet as high as possible
toes out in frog position if possible
Don't pump up and down
Relax
PUSH 100% with legs -- this is hard but it's what gets you amazing height -- you have to recruit every fiber in your leg muscles. Pretend you are jumping for a 50/50 header or a basketball hoop. You see so many people just wimpily pulling with their arms and saying they can't do dynos. Jumping high is about legs not height. Spud Webb was the NBA slam dunking champion several years back. He is 5'7".

If you're REALLY recruiting your leg muscles you won't have to worry about shoulder issues because hitting the deadpoint is super easy -- you're usually still going up when you nab the hold!

Disclaimer: I still can't do the Buckstone Dyno.

In reply to FH:

i suppose it depends on how tall you are. for me the john dunne slap is precisely that. its a slap. i'm 5 10 by the way.

myres suggested that in order for it to be classed as a dyno, there should be a point during the move when you are not touching the rock at all.

i agree. anything less is a pop or a slap. but thats just my opinion and in no way represents fact. the reason i like this explanation is that because the definition is clear cut.

laterzz

m@

In reply to stow:
>you won't have to worry about shoulder issues because hitting the deadpoint is super easy -- you're usually still going up when you nab the hold!

If you're still going up then you haven't deapointed it - this is exactly how shoulders get hurt, cos if you are still going up when you grab the hold then you are about to drop back onto your joints when you've reached your highpoint. A the deadpoint is the hiest point of your movement when you are momentarily stationary.

In reply to Ropeboy: as with most other things in climbing it comes down to practice. i used to only climb on fingery static stuff. then started training on steep board with bigger holds. consequently problems were often larger moves - slapping for problems. The more you practice the stronger your 'contact strength'. No idea of terminology, but basically your muscles remember to pull hard to hold on when they contact rock / plastic after dynoing. This translates across slapping to dynoing.

no contact dynos, require additional self belief and i think a natural aptitude. The Buckstone Dyno is the best i can thing of in the peak.

In reply to m@:

To me a dyno is no more than a jumping dynamic move, but a bit more than a pop. I'd either expect feet to come of or if still in contact of little use with zero weight on them.

But anyway I found this;

http://www.planetfear.com/climbing/training/neilgresham/ng_tech_dynoing.htm

In reply to m@:

M@ I've started a thread on UKBouldering about Dyno definition.

In reply to FH:

sounds contentious!!

you boys love stirring up trouble. you'll be starting a vote next...



laterzz

m@

In reply to m@: If you can still reach the starting footholds from the handhold you've "dynoed" for, then it's not a dyno, it's a slap or a lunge. Re: the JDS I had to cut loose to get it (I'm 5'8")but I'm pretty sure I could still reach the starting footholds: so definately a slap.
Definately not good for your shoulders though.

In reply to daveP:

My own experience is that I get shoulder tweaks if I land dynos when my arm is fully extended -- possibly because that's when the tendons and ligaments (and not the muscle)are receiving much of the force. If I really get height from a good leg push then it seems like I have tons of time to latch the hold correctly and recruit the arm muscles campus style so you're still kind of going up when you latch the hold. That way the arm is bent when you latch and you're never hanging off just your shoulder capsule (ow!). This is easier to do w/ double handed dynos.

I take the point it's not a true deadpoint but it sure seems like you are just hanging there for ages when you get a good liftoff.

In reply to Ropeboy: its the only way to climb sometimes, dynamic moves are easier (eventually) and require less strength. Dunno about shock loading joints coz you should aim to hit the hold a the top of your trajectory where you have no weight, if you are shockloading a lot you're dynoing to far!

In reply to you all:
A real dyno is when all points of contact are lost from the rock... otherwise it's a lunge or slap!
Which hand to go with and the foot position taken is both problem and climber specific. I prefer staggered feet if possible(one higher than the other) as one is used to gain upward movement onto the other so it can be used to propel your body further. Also, just incase you were interested a 2nd generation dyno is where in mid-flight a foot (or hand) is used as a second kick to gain more height (imagine it like running up the rock). Most people fail on dynos not through lack of power or strength but through a poor sense of timing and technique. I'm 5'7" but have done many of the Peak dynos like Quents, Buckstone, etc... timing is the key... (oh and Deliverance is just a slap, you can keep in contact with the rock!)

JIMBO

In reply to JIMBO: if you cannot scratch your chin with you hand that is going to the next hold, its dyno.

In reply to FH:

for a true dyno all points of contact must leave the rock ie the buckstone, georges wall or the traditional method of doing vienna. anything else is merely a slap

In reply to ian: ive done a problem at burbage bridge ,my left hand stayed on everything else was off.that was a dyno definatly not a slap

In reply to Ian:

Check the video of Caterpult at
http://www.northumberlandbouldering.co.uk/Video.html

It looks amazing. He never seems to truly leave the rock, but I wonder how many people would try to say it isn't a dyno?

In reply to innes:

That's defo a dyno!

In reply to Ropeboy: that looks awesome.what grade?

In reply to mark s:

Font 8a, if you click on the "vid details" it gives you the info without opening it.

Just wasted the last hour or so watching the vids, you really have to watch them about 5 or 6 times.

They're not all dyno's though.

J

In reply to Ropeboy: you cant beat a good dyno,i love 'em