UKC

Just a quick straw poll, how many of you will stop buying Climb due to the recent "issues" raised?
Not the thread for debating/discussion, just a yes or no please.

Me? No, cos I stopped buying it ages ago.

In reply to blueshound:

I never bought it often anyway but in a competitive market it is easy to be fickle on single issues (it's my money), so "yes" it will make me stop buying.

In reply to blueshound:

I buy Alpinist, but may have been tempted by the odd issue of climb. Doubt I'd bother now.

In reply to blueshound:

Nope, I'll still get it

In reply to Bill Davidson:

I've hardly ever bought Climb in the past so the current problems have cretainly given me a negative impression of the probable content and I'd leave it alone to be honest.

In reply to blueshound: I get it, but don't think its great. Too many pages on who climbed what boulder in the Peaks...

In reply to blueshound:

Used to subscribe with my BMC membership, cancelled it ages ago. The only magazine i get now is Vertical.

In reply to blueshound: I think there is a gap in the market for a CLIMBING magazine. The current mags are an absolute pile. If it is just going to be Idol worshiping, they could at least make it slightly interesting, by some creative interviewing.

In reply to blueshound:

If Neil Pearson gives Martin K a full and unequivocal apology for his behaviour in this whole debacle, and prints in in his magazine, then yes, I could maybe be persuaded.

Until, I'll get my news for free from UKC thank you very much.

In reply to blueshound: I will not start.

In reply to blueshound: Like you I stopped buying it a while ago. Lack of decent feature writers. The final straw for me was that (IMHO) moronic cartoon strip.

In reply to blueshound:

Steve McClure earns a crust from Climb. Do you all want Climb to fold and Steve lose this source of income?

In reply to blueshound: I only generally get it for long train journeys but I have to say this has made me more inclined to remember to pick up a book or hunt around for a copy of Vertical.

In reply to alessandro di guglielmo:


No, but I do want the editor to stop behaving like a petulant bully. I will stop buying it.

In reply to blueshound:
I have never bought Climb

Please note that this is not an official MLTE policy.

In reply to tmg:

but, but, but i was glad that came back! it's a bit of a relic from the OTE days (i thought) and certainly was something that i have a minor chuckle at.

i must admit though i've a subscription and should i remember this i might think twice next year.

In reply to blueshound:

I used to get it, but it's lost most of it's relevance to my climbing. I'd probably get it for long journeys etc, but I never see it in WHSmith's anymore anyhow.

I prefer Climber.

In reply to blueshound:

Never did buy it but all this nonsense has put me off the BMC.

In reply to blueshound:

I get it with my BMC membership - I actually phoned up last week and stopped the mag subscription. Been meaning to for a while - i decided to join MCofS instead of getting climb, seemed a better use of my money.

this does nothing to make me regret it

In reply to blueshound:

Had a subscription bought as a gift. I won't be continuing. Occasional pretty pictures, but usually a load of psycophantic tosh that's a good way removed from what the game is really about.

In reply to blueshound:

I've probably already "contributed" more than enough to this issue. Used to subscribe to Climb and tried Climber as well for a bit. Don't buy any now - and the last issue of Summit wasn't too great either (loads of typos).

I was discussing this recently. I think that there are two related phenomena. Yes the quality has gone down (maybe related to you can only have so many articles about the main crags, equipment, rope-work etc.). But also feel that I have moved on a bit, maybe things that I didn't know about the climbing world, I do now. Another big issue is that I used to hear about things in the magazines first, now I hear about them on-line, mostly here.

BTW well done Mick and Jack on this, plus all the other people who contribute news - I'm thinking of the Scottish contingent's updates on Trotter and McClure on Rhapsody in particular recently - why would I need to buy Climb, when for free I can view a sequence in which McClure's shirt magically disappears half-way up?

So I guess as in many areas, new media has usurped old and old is struggling for a way to differentiate itself. Maybe it’s getting a bit panicky about it all and hence the recent brouhaha.

In reply to blueshound:

Ok what have I missed?
What are these "issues"?
I cant step away from UKC for 5 minutes without falling behind on the
latest climbing gossip!
someone eplain please...

In reply to blueshound:

I haven't read all the replies on this, but to the OP, no, but I never buy it often anyway, unless there is something of particular interest to me. If someone manages to expose them as major donors to the conservative party I'd stop, but not for this.

While I think that Climb and The BMC's behaviour over this affair has been very poor, (with Martin K being scapegoated by both), in the grand scheme of things it is not that big a deal. How many of us have never acted rashly, made mistakes out of bad judgement or thrown the toys out of the pram? Most of us probably have, but without being accountable to the ukc lynch mob. The BMC, and maybe even Climb mag, do good stuff too, and this single issue doesn't really merit a re-enactment of the French revolution. A lot of people seem to be almost enjoying giving one or both parties a kicking.

Stuart

In reply to blueshound:

As another poster has said.... it's more put me off BMC than Climb. That said, can't recall the last time I've bought climb!! (Desperate & long flight?)
Been a BMC member for yonks tho!

In reply to fennerz:

Oh bother. Have I missed some excitement?

Personally I think Summit is streets ahead of the other mags and the latest one was one of the best. That Andy Parkin article was one of the most original and inspiring I have ever read and the photo that went with it was striking too.
I keep nagging the BMC to sell it on the open market to bring in some extra funds but they say no because it's a benefit especially for members and anyway they are not in the business of trying to compete with commercial magazines. I really don't see why not; a bit of competition is a good thing and would improve standards all round.
Anyway I never saw the other threads but I get the gist. There are really only two ways to handle comments or criticism well. One way is to brush it off and acknowledge that everyone has their own opinion and recognise that that is a good thing. The other way is to evaluate the other person's comments and see if anything can be learned. Any way that is not gracious is likely to reflect badly. That is pretty self-evident is it not?

In reply to blueshound: I can never remember which one I prefer the most (when I can actually find a copy of either in amongst Horse, Horse Rider, Horsey, Horses, Horse Monthly, Biker, Bikes, Bike Rider, Rider, Riding, Golf, Golfer, Golfing, Go Golfing and Fridge Magnet Monthly.)

As I am moving I threw away about 25 editions dating back over the last two and a half years that I've been climbing (so I probably bought them all).

I did think the several page coverage of James Pearson climbing The Groove was fantastic even if the cover shot was a 'non photograph' according to some.

Disclaimer.

This post was not sponsored by the BMC. I apologise for any offence I may have caused yadda yadda yadda.....

Remember - posting is a dangerous activity and it can lead to serious injury or even death. Be careful folks.

In reply to AlisonS:

I'm guessing you're welsh? "That is pretty self-evident is it not?" Gave it away did it not??
p
p.s. You're analysis of said situation is indeed correct! 2 x days late but correct!!

In reply to Padraig:

Well, I stopped bothering with the forums when I heard Al Evans had been banned. Like I stopped watching Heartbeat when Greengrass left. Sometimes the soul just goes.

In reply to blueshound: I never bought it anyway but these "issues" do not really concern me.

In reply to martin heywood:

Been a BMC member for yonks too and really appreciate the hard work and effort these guys put in on our behalf. Much of it is unseen and unsung. The only person who comes out of this badly to me is a magazine editor whose apparent playground antics have done him no favours at all. A person in his position should be grateful for any feedback and if he cannot see the feedback viewpoint he should be attempting to do so in an attempt to understand his market rather than apparently trying to tell his market what they should be wanting and that they're stupid if they don't.

In reply to blueshound: I used to buy OTE as I was living in Sheffield and climbing in the Peaks on a regular basis. Since then I have drifted away from buying any magazine since 90% of the content is either nice piccies of people climbing very hard routes or political testicularization. For the former I can get a DVD and watch them in motion with sound and for the latter I can come here. All I miss are the adverts and the cartoon strip. Should I feel the need for something to read on a long train journey I might possibly pick up Climb but to be frank, after the recent spat I will probably use my three quid or so to buy a paperback.

In reply to alessandro di guglielmo:

Tenuous link. It's not his only source of income. I would rather spend money on some of the products from his sponsors. Or buy him a pint directly. Or a nourishing meal.

CLIMB is useful in showing us how great OTE actually was.

In reply to blueshound:

I dont buy it now unless theres something in it I want to read specifically. Theres far more news on UKC, where we can debate it. Theres also a lot of good blogs from top climbers to bumblies that reflect whats really going on, what people think about things and how climbing is today.

In this age of online media, I think mags need to change their format and approach a lot. I dont have the answer, but weeks old news isnt really worth paying for....

Maybe a shift to quarterly like Alpinist would work, remove the attempt to keep finger on pulse and try to have more reflective articles or wide ranging ones about places and routes, more short stories than 2 page waffles.

In reply to Chris F:

"Just £2 a month will help to feed this top climber"

Climbing chuggers anybody?

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Shouldn't there be a copy of 'Big Issue' sticking out of his sack? (Not the Dunne film!)

In reply to blueshound:
I still buy Climb pretty regularly and read it cover to cover straight away no matter how bad it is, even the 'know your rock type articles'. Can't say I'm gonna stop now.

In reply to Chubbard:

Out of interest, why do you buy it? What does it give you that makes you spend money on it?

In reply to blueshound:

Yesand No. I won't buy it every month, but then never did. I only buy it if there is something that interests me in it. Same with 'Climbing'. The only one I buy every issue of is Vertical. Some great pics if nothing else.

In reply to blueshound:

I used to buy it occasionally but I think they've come out very badly from this whole fiasco and I'll make a point of not buying it in future. Doesn't seem a great deal of point anyway, most of the news is available on here as well as gear reviews, route recommendations, good photes and tall tales etc.

In reply to tony:

Well..its about climbing. So even if its a bad issue its still pretty good. The stomping grounds (esp North Devon, Wintours, Cheddar) series i liked a lot recently. Really inspiring and useful. The Mountain Info is worth a look too. I like the mix of history and recent asents all told in a very english no nonsense fashion like 'they summited after 17 days on the face the last 5 without food and then took the massively committing decision to rappel the 2000M vertical north face by the American Route taking 57 hours to return to base camp.'

In reply to Chubbard:

Was there one of those in it? Oooh, that sounds interesting. I might buy one after
all.

In reply to blueshound: I get it delivered. It's usually OK, sometimes very good and there's always at least something of interest. Wouldn't rave but then it's not very expensive and can be a pleasant pick me up to arrive home to. I was a bit disgusted at the Matin K debacle but I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. OTE was sometimes brilliant but very patchy I thought.

P

In reply to blueshound: i subscribe to both climber and climb and will continue to do so.

i actually think climb has improved in the last 2 years ish.

i also dont think theres anything wrong with the mag objecting to martins criticism, which is potentially damaging to the mag. They have a business to business relationship and it should be respected as such, as I have said elsewhere. Those condemning NP would do well to consider things from his perspective instead of harping on about freedom of speech, which is not relevant in this instance, IMO.

In reply to blueshound:
I missed the threads but was given a brief summary of what happened, although I prefer to pass judgement from having read the material and both sides of the argument with my own eyes. From what I hear Neil Pearson didn't behave very well, however, I have a subscription to Climb and, personally, I like it and find it more relevant to me than Climber. Not about to cancel subscription.

In reply to blueshound:

If it has interesting articles then yes - couldn't really give a monkeys about the recent shennanigans.

In reply to blueshound: I buy it occasinally, but have mainly given up with it. When it started, it was aimed at all climbers, no matter what grade. Now, it seems more about hard bouldering in the Peak.

In reply to Big Steve: is it? really? I see this criticism a lot, and I have to say I havent noticed that, and Im not a boulderer so Im not biased in this regard.
Yes there is a section on bouldering, buts also true of climber, and is an attempt to relate to all types of climbers, Im sure.
I did think last month that the article about "expeditions for mortals" was a bit much. I dont know the guy who wrote it, but the premise was that he was a "normal climber", yet he was elite enough for Martin Moran to have his phone number and call him to ask for his help doing the expedition. From my perspective that puts him in a different class to most "mortals".

In reply to blueshound:

If I bought it, I wouldn't stop because of it. But I don't buy it, I get Climber instead as even though the content of both is interesting (to me), I find there's more stuff in Climber that I refer back to.

In reply to Andy Say:

you should be careful .... what you say anything you say can be taken out of context and made to look like you ate all the flapjack !

As for buying the said mag, I don't currently subscribe to mags, I was a long time subscriber to OTE right back to the 1st edition till it went all wierd...

This is the place to be for banter news and offers why wait a month for news ? its here as it breaks .... why wait and pay extra for it.

Keep up the good work UKC !

In reply to Ian McNeill:

This is a good thread.

In every customer group you have three sub-groups:

1. Those who use the brand regularly.

2. Those who use it occasionally or might.

3. Those who never use it and never will.

Group 1 ignore any negative comments about the brand because they already have a good impression of it. Group 3 won't change because they already have a negative opinion of the brand. It's group 2 tat gets targetted and who will have suffered in this fiasco.