UKC

Once upon a time Swastika (on the Etive slabs) was HVS.

Your average HVS climber did 6 brilliant pitches of slab climbing at 4c/5a to reach the top of the quartz band. The next pitch started with an overlap which was normally done with one point of aid. The final pitch involved climbing the headwall by a steep corner by clipping a line of pegs and then finishing the climb with a traverase along a sloping ledge and few wild layback moves up another exposed corner.

That was then.

The new SMC Glencoe guide gives Swastika E2 and 4 stars.

The first six pitches are still 4c/5a. The 7th pitch is now graded 5c with no mention of the option of using 1 point of aid. I don't believe the overlap is 5c, I think it's 6a. The final pitch is given 6a which it probably is but is also probably E3, again no mention of using aid. As an alternative the guide suggests moving on to the last pitch of the Long Wait at 5b.

In my opinion this is bollocks. I fully agree that Swastika is a 4 star route if done in the style of olden days where an HVS climber could experience some sensational slab climbing followed by a bit of unusual adventure to get up the last 100 feet of steep stuff. As described now though, the route becomes unbalanced in it's grading or one is forced to deviate from the original line and finish up another route.

I think this is a great shame. My view is that the route description should explain the options of using aid and give the HVS climber the opportunity of climbing the route in the traditional manner.

Discuss.

In reply to Removed User:

Tch! Grade Nazis, eh?

In reply to Removed User: To be honest I have to agree. I think at least including a grade of HVS/A1 in brackets in the description would serve to keep everyone happy. For example, Dwm (another classic Hard Rock tick) is still graded in this manner in North Wales Rock.

Glad you think the overlap is 6a and the top pitch E3 - we found them bloody hard last summer.

In reply to Removed User:


Totally agree. I seem to remember the top crack being full of moss and way out of balance with the rest of the route. We aided it without a second thought and to be honest, it didn't detract from the experience of the main part of the route. HVS/A1 would be the most logical grade.

The same is true to a lesser extent of King Rat at the Dubh Loch which has one hard move through the roof and the rest is way below 5b.

In reply to Removed User:

I was more than happy to second it during the 70's in the original style, though only remember using aid on the top corner - mostly nuts, plus a couple of ancient in situ pegs. I'd certainly have had a tight rope on the overlap below it, but cant remember whether Ronnie climbed it free.

When we got to the aid pitch, Ronnie told us that Stu Miller (I think) had climbed it free the previous year and reckoned it was about E1

No chalk or sticky rubber in those days -- come to think of it it was pretty chilly when we did it one Easter Sunday so sweaty fingers were'nt an issue. Pete Whillance & Hughie Loughran were doing the crux of Long Reach whilst we were on the Quartz bands -- Pete was padding his way up the really run out bit, when some large icicles came off from the headwall almost directly above him and landed with a loud clatter close to Pete. His almost predictable reaction was to pause, stand in balance on next to nothing, and light a fag to calm his nerves, before finishing the pitch.

There are a lot of hardish classic routes that can give superb outings, if you are prepared to 'cheat' a little - and what's the harm in that as long as any aid used does not damage the rock, and you dont claim the ascent as being anything other than a 'bit of fun'. As long as aid used is not more than on the first ascent, then IMHO a valid ascent 'in the original style' can be claimed.

In reply to Removed User:
I agree - I think the grade should be given as HVS/A1 (E3 5c free)
That reflects the history of the route and gives everyone a pop at it

In reply to Niall:

Oh, please yourselves then. I'm wasted on you people

In reply to Removed User:

yep, thats about right. its is a fantastic HVS A0/1, but a rather desperate and unbalanced e2 or e3 6a.

either way it is a brilliant route and if you do it free then good stuff. i did not, but then again it was february and i could barely feel my fingers on the upper shaded bits.....

In reply to Removed User:

It's a long time since I climbed Swastika when I was able to climb E3 5c, my limit.
So the overlap might be 5c, (it was graded 5b when I did it) but not 6a or I wouldn't have got up it.
The top corner IS hard, so 6a is probably correct. Both myself and my friend had several attempts before admitting failure and used the pegs.

A great route as are most at the Slabs.

In reply to Removed User: I not only agree but actually wrote to the Glencoe guidebook team c/o Tom Prentice on the issue prior to the latest guide coming out. This was because the previous guide made no mention of the climb having been done with aid originally at all, thus giving a rather false impression of Scottish climbing history. As a result (I assume) the new guide at least mentions the aid but doesn't take note of my second suggestion which was that the guide be graded E3 6a (or whatever) with a note in bold saying that it makes an excellent HVS if points of aid are used as you mention.

In reply to Removed User:
First i must agree with the above. Now lets all be logical and give dual grades to other routes. Some great VS/A? at Wintours now given an E number. What about Cenotaph? Dare you.