/ NEWS: Kevin Jorgeson Repeats The Promise

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We have a preliminary report that Kevin Jorgeson, the visiting American climber, has climbed The Promise, a short route at Burbage, graded E10 7a.

In his short report to UKC, Kevin Jorgeson stated simply:

"Second ascent today. Did it in an hour on my first day and thought E8 was more appropriate. I'm writing a trip report that I will post on my site shortly."

Read More: http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=10&year=2008#n45410

EDIT: Oct 28: The Promise - Kevin's account at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=10&year=2008#n45411
Adam Lincoln - on 28 Oct 2008
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Lets hope conditions continue for them!

Effort.
telemarker - on 28 Oct 2008
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

awesome
Richard Bradley - on 28 Oct 2008
In reply to telemarker: More good stuff. He's even getting the hang of the grading system! :-)
telemarker - on 28 Oct 2008
In reply to Richard Bradley:

> He's even getting the hang of the grading system! :-)

haha
220bpm on 28 Oct 2008
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: Wow, thats properly impressive!

I remember what a nasty landing that had and how tenuous the moves sounded when listening to JP on Committed.
north country boy - on 28 Oct 2008
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: Great effort, and at last some sense! How was this ever E10?!!?
flaneur - on 28 Oct 2008
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

From his blog:

"Today I managed to climb The Promise at Burbage North for its second ascent. On my initial inspection two
days ago on rappel, I didn’t even try the moves. The original beta just seemed completely out of the question.
Returning today, looking at the chalk on the holds, I visualized a new possibility for the beta and gave it a try.
This involved turning a right hand pocket to an undercling, which as a result shortened the reach to a bad sloper.
I quickly did the moves with the new beta on top rope, rested, and climbed it clean on top rope. After figuring
out how to place the slider nut, which was surprisingly bomber, I was ready to go. I climbed up, placed the
piece and returned to the ground. On the lead, there always seems to be some unplanned decision to be made.
For me, it was the position of my right foot on a key hold relative to the rope. This unplanned decision resulted
in me placing my right foot a little wrong, requiring a readjustment. Once in place, the crux move felt quite a bit
harder than I was anticipating. Luckily, there was enough tolerance in the move that I was still able to stick it.
The whole process took about an hour."

"The obvious question that arose was regarding the grade. After climbing Parthian Shot, The New Statesman,
and The Promise and having spent two days on Equilibrium and one on The Groove, my opinion is that the
grade falls at E8, 5.13c/d R. The reason for this is that a fall from the crux would not result in a ground fall,
assuming the gear holds. Regarding the gear, the only way that it would fail is if the cables broke. After bounce
testing the piece while clipped directly into my harness, I was confident that it would hold. It should also be
stated that I placed two crashpads at the base of the climb. All in all, the route climbs wonderfully and would
highly recommend it to anyone!"

If I've not misread the text, Kevin has put E-grades in the photocaptions for some US highballs: The Swarm V10 E10
Adam Lincoln - on 28 Oct 2008
In reply to flaneur:
> (In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC)
> If I've not misread the text, Kevin has put E-grades in the photocaptions for some US highballs: The Swarm V10 E10

You must have mis-read as it's the duel he thinks is E10, not the swarm.

Michael Ryan - on 28 Oct 2008
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
> (In reply to flaneur)
> [...]
>
> You must have mis-read as it's the duel he thinks is E10, not the swarm.

That's correct and confirmed.
flaneur - on 28 Oct 2008
In reply to Adam Lincoln:

Thanks Adam,

I thought I'd changed that.

www.momentumvm.com: "This line is called 'the Duel' and goes at about V10, but will likely never be repeated."

Now there's a gauntlet.
Adam Lincoln - on 28 Oct 2008
In reply to flaneur:
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln)
>
> Thanks Adam,
>
> I thought I'd changed that.
>
> www.momentumvm.com: "This line is called 'the Duel' and goes at about V10, but will likely never be repeated."
>
> Now there's a gauntlet.

I've stood under The Duel, and the landing is shocking....

john howard 1 - on 28 Oct 2008
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: Wow, very impressive, hope the weather holds for them, keep it up!
Toccata on 28 Oct 2008
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Does this make The Walk of Life E10 then?

Echoes of the brothers Menestrel...
JSA - on 28 Oct 2008
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Kevin is going through the hard stuff like a good dose!! i wonder if he'll visit Scotland and Cornwall?
Michael Ryan - on 29 Oct 2008

In reply to flaneur:
> (In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC)
>
> From his blog:

> "The obvious question that arose was regarding the grade. After climbing Parthian Shot, The New Statesman,
> and The Promise and having spent two days on Equilibrium and one on The Groove, my opinion is that the
> grade falls at E8, 5.13c/d R.

In global grade esperanto that is 8a+/b French sport with the R being the Yosemite Decimal System (YDS) protection grade.

G – Good, solid protection ground up
PG – Pretty good, few sections of poor or non-existent placements
R – Runout, some protection placements may be very far apart (possibility of broken bones, even when properly protected)
X – No protection, extremely dangerous (possibility of death, even when properly protected)

JSA - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

is that the greade for all of them? statesman has always been E8, should parthian stay at E9 given that at the time no one even dared think about testing the flake?
Michael Ryan - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to the inspiral carpet:

just The Promise I think.
JSA - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

ahh i see, since he's flying through these hard routes like a speeding bullet it'd be good to hear that he's been on McLeods and pearsons routes in sctland and cornwall!

If he does get on the i wonder if he'll try ground up considering the seriousness of them?
Michael Ryan - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
> (In reply to flaneur)
> [...]
>
> I've stood under The Duel, and the landing is shocking....

From Rock and Ice, December 2008!

In an interview with Aliosn Osius, Kevin Jorgeson was asked.

What might be your most dangerous problem?

"Probably The Dual in Hueco. I fell off the crux probably half a dozen times on top rope, so the chance of a fall was reasonable, and you'd pinball.

I didn't even have spotters because it really wouldn't have done anything. I think I'd have been putting them in more danger than putting me in safety. Most of my problems I've had three to four spotters."

END

The Duel is V10, 25 feet and Kevin has stated to UKClimbing.com that he thinks it would get an E10 grade.

Also see:... I think Kevin has done most if not all of the below.

Apr 26 2007: E-grades for American Highball Boulder Problems
by Mick Ryan


http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=04&year=2007#n36307

In an interesting twist, Wills Young of Bishop, sent us a list of highball boulder problems around Bishop, California, that he has assigned E-grades to.

The Ninth V7 (Pollen Grains, Matt Wilder, Nov. 2005) — E6

This Side of Paradise V10 (Bardini Boulders, Matt Wilder, Nov. 2005) — E7
Photo: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=60646

Flight of the Bumblebee V9 (Secrets of the Beehive Area, Kevin Jorgeson, Jan. 2007) — E8

Evilution V11/12 (Peabody Boulders, Jason Kehl, Nov. 2002) — E8
Photo: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=64134

Pick of the crop is The Beautiful and the Damned V13 at the Bardini Boulders first climbed by Kevin Jorgeson this last January and given a proposed E-grade of E9. This monster got a repeat by Ethan Pringle, another American climber who is making waves like Jorgeson, both of whom Wills describes as world-class climbers.

Mick


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catt on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Going well that boy. Good effort.

Very interesting to read his thoughts on the route and the grade. Is he purely a highball and short route devotee, or is he likely to travel to try the hard routes away from grit?
Michael Ryan - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to catt:

VIDEO... highball bouldering around Bishop .... warning big falls.. Flight of The Bumblebee E8 (v9) Second ascent

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=K3kCN84G-S0
JLS on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to the inspiral carpet:

>"If he does get on the i wonder if he'll try ground up considering the seriousness of them?"

The problems associated with a beta free ground up of Rhapsody will be route finding given its line is escapeable at lower difficulty, technical difficulty of the moves if the correct line is followed and remaining beta free. I think the seriousness element has gone since it's been proven that multiple falls don't mean certain injury.

(Still I wouldn't fancy it myself like.)

I think the right person could ground up Rhapsody but it's probably unrealistically without beta. Anyway who'd ever come to climb it without having seen video and pictures of guys on it?

It must be practically impossible to escape aquiring beta for such notable climbs. I've got more beta for Rhapsody than I had for Three Peeble Slab when I did it.
Jus - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

anyone got a photo or video of Duel?
robin mueller - on 29 Oct 2008
Jus - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to robin mueller:

cheers. I've registered but still can't find the video. Any clues as to how I find it?
robin mueller - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to Jus: that link should take you to it...

If not, look in Archives, issue#12, January 2008, Kevin Jorgeson highball FAs in Hueco.
Andy Moles - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

I would love to see some of these guys coming over to Ireland and having a go at Divided Years...there's an E9 (?) of significant length (45m) which is safe and should be ground-uppable I'd have thought...
Jus - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to robin mueller:

awesome, thanks. It's a shame that you don't get a true feel of the height of the route when he's climbing though.

Amazing line!
In reply to AMo: Yes, it is ground-upable, but... is doing DY ground-up, with lots of falls, maybe a yo-yo, etc. better than a quick head point?

Could be? Might not be?
Andy Moles - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Flashable then??
shark - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: In reply to AMo: Yes, it is ground-upable, but... is doing DY ground-up, with lots of falls, maybe a yo-yo, etc. better than a quick head point?

Could be? Might not be


That's an interesting one - ie contrasting 2 similarly flawed styles. The best style is also normally the hardest way to do a route but just because its easier one way doesnt mean its a worse style or vice versa. Also from the outset you dont know how much/little falls/yo-yos or top roping is required for success.

I think it comes down to what an individual interprets as 'best' and that in turn would depend on your ethic or pre-disposed climbing style. On the other hand praticality might force the style you employ if you only have a limited time available and are desperate to do the route.
teddy - on 29 Oct 2008
I think ground ups of short grit routes are impressive as there is often rubbish gear involved or a complete lack of it. However, ground ups of longer routes like Rhapsody are a bit pointless in my view as if the gear is good or spaced, it is just a matter of time, you may as well just headpoint and save yourself a lot of effort.

To illustrate my point, look at Andy Pollitt's ground up ascent of Chimes of Freedom, an 8a+ at Raven Tor in the mid 80's which took about 15 days or something (it was 7c+ at the time as it had an extra crucial block that has since fallen out). This was just before the redpointing boom when 'dogging' moves was frowned upon and you had to lower to the ground immediately if you fell. If he had been able to redpoint, he would have probably done it in about 2 or 3 days! Ground ups of sport routes thankfully never caught on after Andy's ascent. This is why I question the point of ground ups of reasonably protected trad routes. Surely the onsight/ flash is the great prize and after that is gone, you may as well just headpoint??
Andy Moles - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to teddy:
Surely the onsight/ flash is the great prize and after that is gone, you may as well just headpoint??


I think I pretty much agree with that, though obviously it depends on the individual's attitude to it...all depends on the sense of accomplishment you take from each approach I suppose.

If a route is safe though, as Divided Years is, why not go for the flash? If you fail, as you say, you can always change your approach afterwards...
Andy Moles - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to AMo:
> I think I pretty much agree with that, though obviously it depends on the individual's attitude to it...all depends on the sense of accomplishment you take from each approach I suppose.
>
> If a route is safe though, as Divided Years is, why not go for the flash?* If you fail, as you say, you can always change your approach afterwards...


*if you think you're capable of course!

shark - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to teddy:

IIRC from his lecture from waay back Pollitt elected to do it this way almost as an experiment. He redpointed all his other hard sport routes at the time.

Also choice of style isnt necessarily about what is impressive to others but what an individual feels is the right thing to do. There might be an internal dialogue of what is practical and quick vs what is better style vs come back to it another year.
Alasdair Fulton - on 29 Oct 2008
I think the "onsight" experience is iportant. After that, does it really matter if it's ground upped or headpointed?
johncoxmysteriously - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to AMo:

>If a route is safe though, as Divided Years is,

Am I out of date here? I seem to recall it being said there was very dangerous but easier climbing after the hardest part.

jcm
Peter Walker on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to AMo)
>
> >If a route is safe though, as Divided Years is,
>
> Am I out of date here? I seem to recall it being said there was very dangerous but easier climbing after the hardest part.
>
> jcm

Certainly Dunne said that the top arete (above the crux) was worth E7 6c in its own right, and that a fall from the 6c bit at the top would be disastrous. But other ascentionists have made no conspicuous mention of this.
Andy Moles - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Perhaps 'comparatively' safe, or safe for the grade. I understood you could take massive but harmless falls on most of it at least..?
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teddy - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to Alasdair Fulton:
> I think the "onsight" experience is iportant. After that, does it really matter if it's ground upped or headpointed?


Exactly, in my view life is too short for ground upping on reasonably protected trad routes (grit excepted). It could take weeks to do this for Rhapsody to prove not a great deal.
In reply to the inspiral carpet:

> Kevin is going through the hard stuff like a good dose!! i wonder if he'll visit Scotland and Cornwall?

Or the lakes.

John2 - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to the inspiral carpet and alessandro de guglielmo: I can't stand it any more! Pearson's new route is at Dyer's Lookout, which is in Devon not Cornwall.
Tyler - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to John2:

.........and, while we're on the subject, have you two not noticed its been pi**ing down in the Lakes and Scotland for two months!

Nic on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to Richard Bradley:

> He's even getting the hang of the grading system!

Any chance we could get him on Three Pebble Slab, and sort that one out?
GrahamD - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to John2:

There is, however, an unrepeated E10 in Cornwall.
John2 - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to GrahamD: So what? From my position as a a fully qualified UKC E1 leading pundit I point out that E10 is no great shakes these days.
GrahamD - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to John2:

I don't think Kevin Jorgeson has been trying anything harder, has he ?
chris_j_s - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Anybody seen James Pearsons blog today.

Sounds like the suggested downgrade caused a raised eyebrow or two from him!
billb - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to chris_j_s: Do you have a link to his blog?
chris_j_s - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to billyboy:

Sorry, should have posted that.

http://jamespearsonclimbing.blogspot.com/
billb - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to chris_j_s: Thats it - cheers!
John2 - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to GrahamD: Groan. To make a non facetious reply, I was responding originally to the statement 'it'd be good to hear that he's been on McLeods and pearsons routes in sctland and cornwall!'.
GrahamD - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to John2:

I know :-)

Equally it would be nice to see E10s on different rock types attempted because the E grade isn't all about grit.
Rob15 - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to alessandro di guglielmo: "Or the lakes."
It would be pretty interesting to get them to have a go at some of Birketts routes..
JSA - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to Rob15:
> (In reply to alessandro di guglielmo) "Or the lakes."
> It would be pretty interesting to get them to have a go at some of Birketts routes..

especailly since no matter how hard they may be he hasn't graded anything E10(i think)
TRNovice on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

"They [bouldering mats] are also commonly used to take the sting out of bolder routes. This is entirely your choice, and in many ways a rational one, but remember the effect their use will have on the grade of a climb. It makes them easier."

-- Stanage. The Definitive Guide. © BMC 2007.
JSA - on 29 Oct 2008
In reply to TRNovice:

my sentiments exactly in my 17.30 post http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=326677

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