UKC

Ok, so I'm idling away at work looking at the new photies on UKC when I followed the link on a pic of Cioch Nose (ace picture by the way) to the logbook for that route. I see that it's a pretty even split between those who reckon it's a hard vd and those who reckon it's actually hvd. So come on then UKC'ers which is the harder grade?

In reply to Robert Dickson:

Not answering the question but :
Personally i'd reckon it was a pretty easy VD, did it about a month ago in big boots and rucksacks.

In reply to Robert Dickson: Is there actually any difference between the two? They both stand for the same thing so I don't really see any difference

In reply to Robert Dickson:
Looking at the votes the majority think its a Vdiff (add all the votes for Vdiff whether easy or hard) with most people thinking it is in the high end of that grade (hard).

Hard Very Difficult or (HVDiff or HVD) is the next grade up with just over a 1/3 thinking it should be this grade. Some of the UK doesn't use the HVD grade or rarely uses it and would either call it Severe or VDiff.

The confusion here is that hard VD and HVD are meaning different things in the voting table.

In reply to Robert Dickson: It's the same as voting if something is Hard (for) VS as opposed to HVS, or Hard (for) S as opposed to HS. Or are you just being pedantic? How would you prefer they set it up in the voting system, if you are.

In reply to Robert Dickson:

Hard hard v diff or easy hard v diff..life is so complicated...

In reply to Robert Dickson:

HVM: Hard Very Moderate?

In reply to Owen W-G: Haha. I like it.

In reply to Robert Dickson:
Sounds like a classic VDiff + to me.

In reply to Robert Dickson:

Clearly a case for HVD0 if ever there was one.

In reply to catt:

There wasn't!

In reply to Ava Adore:

Thats actually quite straight forward... its HVD- vrs VD+ thats the problem...they're essentially the same grade.

Its the only place where this problem occurs I think, mainly because HVD is one of those invented grades that doesn't mean much...and its only even used in a few places. VS+ vs HVS- makes sense for example.

In reply to Silum:

Like HS - that doesn't exist either.....oh...what about MS and MVS..or any of them for that matter; they're all invented and they all exist since the difficulty is a continuum. It all just depends if you want to use them or not!

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Well MS is used even less! I see your point, but never in all my life have I met someone who considered themselves a HVD climber, they either a V.Diff climber or Severe climber. All of these grades essentially only exist because the guidebook writers have decided not to use a + or -. HVD- IS the same as VD+ because when + and - are used, the the scale should really be VD, VD+, S-, S. Otherwise its VD, HVD, MS, S. Same thing! With an online logbook like at UKC you just have a strange situation where people start grading for essentially the same thing under different names.