UKC

Has the release of Megrahi damaged the international reputation of Scotland?
There now seems to be considerable anger from the USA over the release of the Lybian after his 'hero's welcome' in Tripoli.
Reports on BBC24 say that many Americans are cancelling trips to Scotland in protest.

In reply to Paul F:

I think it shows goes to show that the Jocks are able to see the funny side of things like Lockerbie, whereas the yanks take it all a bit too seriously.

Although it might be a ruse to get Bin Laden to give himself up by creating the impression he'll just get a bit of community service and an ankle tag

In reply to Paul F:

Is this the Irish guy, Al McGrarky I keep hearing about ?

In reply to Paul F:


All the tight-wad republican bigots are staying away? Fantastic!

In reply to Paul F: Ithink we all know that the reek from this case smelt worse than a week old arbroath smokie, as for the kids from across the water, well when there country is as old as ours,has been through as much as ours then we might not have to take everything they say with a rather large pinch of salt.

In reply to DIRK DIDLER:

Even making those allowances, how the hell do you get to be director of the FBI with no brains, and mouthing off to the whole world without checking the facts?

In reply to Jim Fraser:

Is he a UKCer?

In reply to Paul F:

I don't believe it'll make a huge difference to be honest if some of them do cancel their trips. I can't imagine those that have booked their trips would be willing to cancel a trip potentially leaving them hundreds if not thousands of dollars out of pocket. The peak season is nearly done and unless Fox News run a continuous 'Boycott Scotland' for the next 10 months I don't think we'll see any long term damage. People and the media have very short memories.

In reply to Toby S:

There's going to be thousands of hungry midgies without all those fat Americans to feed on.

In reply to Paul F:

To be honest, even if we accept Megrahi's conviction (and I know there are doubts), I'm still supportive of the decision to release him to live out the last three months of his life - he's unlikely to have massive quality of life, and when the context of his imminent death from cancer is kept firmly in mind, the comments rolling in from the US simply make them look ungracious and small-minded. Sadly, it's what I've come to expect from Americans...

Jack McConnell on the other hand, should be publicly defenestrated from the highest available point of Edinburgh castle for having the audacity to comment on any other MSP 'bringing shame on Scotland' - or does the man have a genuine problem with his short term memory?

In reply to Paul F:

True!

In reply to Paul F:
>
What reputation was that exactly?!?! Scotland does not have an international reputation, well, not a positive one anyway.

In reply to Ditch_Jockey:

He was convicted of the murder of 270 children, women and men. The US families have trusted (perhaps wrongly) the integrity of the Scottish legal system that he was tried and convicted under. I don't think it's either small minded or "ungracious" to think that others might be deserving of compassion first. I can imagine the outrage in the UK if Ian Brady was let out on grounds of compassion near the end of his life, and his crime was small in comparison to the person we are told was responsible for Lockerbie.

Ultimately McAskill's decision might have been the correct one under Scottish law and for British public thinking on this matter but to suggest that the families of the slaughtered and the US prosecutor are being "small minded" in saying otherwise strikes me as horribly condescending. They may be wrong, but they are very far from being "ungracious".

Paul F:

Why are these kind of comments considered OK whilst anyone who mentions "stupid Scots" or "miserly Jews" would rightfully get shouted down? One of my climbing partners and best mates is American and sorry to spoil the lazy stereotyping but is neither fat or stupid.

In reply to nickinscottishmountains:


What a strange comment. Like most countries, it does for some things. For others it doesn't.

In reply to DougG: I meant, it has no reptuation in terms of politics/international issues/bieng a nation on the world stage, all that sort of thing.

Clearly it has one for football, whisky, tourism etc.

In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

That surely must be one of the silliest posts on UKC this year, what is the prize?

In reply to nickinscottishmountains:


OK, so you're saying that as well as "not having a positive reputation", it also doesn't have a negative one?

Glad we cleared that up.

In reply to DougG: Listening to senior foreign correspondents (Americans) discuss this on NPR's Diane Rehm Show on friday, they were obviously finding it hard to explain that Scottish law is something different to what the UK government's position might be. To outsiders interested in politics, there is only UK foreign policy, so it takes a bit of explaining to explain how Scottish law is different from Whitehall policy on these things. The presumption from callers into NPR was surely that this was the UK trying to improve trade relations with Libya.

In reply to DougG: Yeah more or less.

In reply to TobyA:

Aye, I can understand how that sort of confusion might arise. I wouldn't expect even "outward-looking" people in the USA to be familiar with Scots law and/or Devolution.

I can't help thinking that a lot of people over there maybe think that it's akin to the US, where the "Federal" authority (i.e. the UK Govt) must have seniority over the "State" (Scottish) one. Except of course, it's not a Federal system here and doesn't work like that.

In reply to Donald M:

A haggis and a toy Highland coo.

In reply to Donald M: Why? Scotland is not exactly a big hitter on the international scene...despite what nationalists like to think.

In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

Why? I think your statement was bizarre. You said that "Scotland has no reputation, not a positive one at least".
Then when challenged you said that you meant that it didn't have any reputation. Why bother with the "not a positive one, at least" - unless it was to imply that its reputation was negative?


Despite?? I think that SNP voters might agree. That's what they want to change - they'd like to see it have a voice. I don't think even the most optimistic of them reckon it'll be a particularly loud one - but it might be seen (by some) as being preferable to none at all.

In reply to TobyA:

In a federation made up of 50 countries, each with its own laws, this is clearly consistent with, though not conclusive proof of 'fat and stupid'.

In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

Really? One example that tends to contradict that assertion is when a local lady approached me on Nanjing Road in Shanghai to tell me that she had always admired 'Sugelan' as a country that managed to preserve its culture and values over the centuries despite so many diffiulties.

In reply to Jim Fraser: If you're trying to sound like an unpleasant bigot Jim, you're definitely succeeding.

I'm sure you don't really need me to point out that the US isn't made up of fifty "countries", nor to point out to you the constitutional structure with the supreme court as the final arbiter of whether laws imposed by individual states are constitutional or not.

In reply to TobyA:

Get a grip Toby! I stole the 'fat and stupid' from YOUR post.

Since the USA is a federation originally made up of several british colonies, and since the whole point of federal structures is to provide a level of independence to their components, I dont think your point is valid.

Looking at another federation, I remember joking with a Swiss colleague a few weeks ago about the Swiss being the only ones in Europe that could understand how the UK was made up of 4 countries. Most cannot get their heads round it, but the Swiss just think 'Only four?'.

In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

So just to understand your point, since Scotland has no control over foreign affairs but on this occassion has come to prominence on this issue, does this mean that England has even less reputation?

In reply to Jim Fraser: You happened to miss the "neither" though, and went back to painting "Americans" with the same broad brush as you were on Thursday afternoon when you declared from your lofty - indeed Highland - perch that the US was "A nation and its people showing themselves to be in love with hate and retribution... not worthy of our respect."

I think this whole thing has now turned into ridiculous and petty inter-party slanging match in Edinburgh that makes the Scottish body politic look ridiculous, fortunately I don't need to expand that dislike to the people of Scotland.

In reply to TobyA:

No, this has been turned into a petty inter-party mess by Scottish Labour and the Lib Dems who seem to be desparate to use any opportunity. All the SNP have done is restate the position as set out on Thursday.

In reply to Donald M:

McConnell is now calling Megrahi's release "a grave error of judgement".

He seems to have re-found his tongue all of a sudden. Where the f@ck was Wee Jack last Thursday afternoon? On holiday?

If you intend to holiday in Libya then all is well.

Just don't say you are Scottish if you buy a burger in Disneyland!

In reply to DougG:

He was nowhere. This episode is really showing up the petty, parochial, small minded regionalism of the Scottish Labour branch of the Labour Party.

In reply to DougG:

He was biding his time waiting for the decision. Had Al Megrahi not been released then he would have proclaiming the government a disgrace for damaging Scotland's reputation by cruelly and mercilessly leaving a man to spend his final days in jail thousands of miles from his family, and for kowtowing to the USA in some vain attempt to increase their nationalist standing on international stage.

The whole political reaction in Scotland is utterly sickening. Cynical bastards, each and every one of them. It's pathetic.

In reply to Donald M:

Labour are doing their usual spoilt brat impression with Teddy being flung out of the pram at every turn since the SNP whipped them.

Tavish Scott has been disappointingly partisan. We might have thought ourselves entitled to expect a more liberal approach from someone leading a party called the Liberal Democrats: the name might be a clue. But no, he seems to be attempting to make political capital from worthless details neither giving credit to the justice and courage of such a decision nor homing in on the real flaws.

In reply to Paul F:

Is it just me or is hindsight just a wonderfull thing?
Why didn't they just ship Megrahi's family to Greenock for 3 months and put them up in a B+B?
That would have been compassionate and kept everyone happy - too simple??

Enty

In reply to Enty:

And it would have cost much less than the loss of Scotch sales in the US of A

Enty

In reply to Enty:


Have you ever been to Greenock??

In reply to DougG:


LOL. <unintended coffee/monitor interface situation>

Doug-da'-OG remains the one liner king of UKC.

In reply to Jim Fraser:

My word, really? I knew that there are German-speaking Swiss and French-speaking Swiss, but I didn't know it considered itself to be made up of several 'sub-countries' (to coin a term) and, even better, make it work.
You live and learn, eh.

Sx

In reply to DougG:

Lol - driven through with the doors locked!!!

Enty

In reply to Sarah G:

Confoederatio Helvetica is probably the most devolved nation state on earth and I believe it currently consists of 26 Kanton or states.