UKC

OK, lets paint the picture. Your just about to go on your MIA training (which I'm not, bear with me...). What would be the most impressive logbook regarding multi pitch climbing in the UK.

MLTUK wants 30 before training.

I'm going to be embarking on my training within the next few years after I get my ML, so am interested to get opinions.

Discuss.

I would suggest Moonraker (HVS) Berry Head, A Dream of White Horses (HVS) to name but a few.

In reply to torbaytradclimber:

The Quarryman, The Scoop, Longhope Route?


Chris

In reply to torbaytradclimber: Fionn Buttress, Carnmore

In reply to torbaytradclimber: if your just aiming for the most impressive looking 30 your going at it in completely the wrong way! if your a climber going for there mia, you should love climbing, and should climb routes just because you can, not just because you think they will look impressive! and you should have a shite load more than 30 multipitch vs's!!!

In reply to torbaytradclimber:

Nope, it's 30 before registration.

Haven't got enough good ones myself yet, but pretty pleased with The Pause. Might be different if I ate E1s for breakfast, but I don't!

In reply to sihills:

It's a reasonable question when they're looking for routes of a certain scale and stature ('a large proportion of these routes should be on mountain crags and major sea cliffs') and you're likely to have done more but be cherry-picking for the registration form.

In reply to torbaytradclimber: I've seen pictures of a climb called "The pause, in the Glen Coe guide, looks like a fantastic route, sure somebody on here will tell me its rubbish though :S

Maybe I should have just asked for recommendations. What is it with this forum and people's attitude? Some of you remind me of moody teenage girls!

Shame...

Any 'mature' responses to the post?

In reply to Chris Craggs:


..."The Quarryman" hmmm never heard of this one... is it in Cornwall?

In reply to torbaytradclimber:

Thought I'd given you two already, but it depends on so much. There's no limit on attainment and some folk no doubt fill their forms with a truckload of Es (in which context Chris's jokey reply is quite appropriate) whereas others might be content with all 30 at VS 4c. But, since the important thing seems to be logging substantial climbs on substantial crags, Moonraker, Dream of White Horses, Fionn Buttress and The Pause are clearly all suitable.

In reply to torbaytradclimber:

I would suggest that an impressive logbook of UK climbing would encompass a selection of E5 and above spread across the Dubh Loch, Cloggy, Scafell, Gogarth and Fair Head plus numerous others perhaps of a lower standard totalling up to over 500.


I would suggest that this would be a rather less than impressive logbook.

I hope that you consider this to be a 'mature' response....it is intended to be!

In reply to torbaytradclimber:

Well, up to and including your top grade of E2 I'd imagine Steeple, Shibboleth and Torro would have to be in there. Then maybe Saxon, Shrike, White Slab, and a few bits like that to add some flavour from the rest of the UK's mountains. That'd be the kind of mountain routes CV I'd want at your level, aspirationally

As for the seacliffs, too many to even try and suggest.....

With regards to your two suggestions, I'd say that in terms of "cachet", "bragging rights" or whatever that the former should score far more highly than the latter. I think its a bigger route in terms of feel.

AJM

In reply to Hammy:

So how many MIAs do you think have got that pre-registration?


But take out one word ('than') and I might concede this point!

In reply to torbaytradclimber:

Get a decent logbook of all sorts of climbs of all grades, the more the better so the course people know you are doing it for fun as well as work.

Much more impressive to have 30 vs routes in the rain than a dozen E2 in good conditions as well. It shows you can cope in bad conditions.

In reply to torbaytradclimber:

I see you mentioned berry head, being from the SW i'd recommend:
Aviation on Hay tor - E1
Spiders web on Raven crag at the dewerstone - hvs
Gates of Eden at daddy hole - this was a hs although im told rock fall has made the first pitch harder and it now goes at hard vs

The spider at chudleigh looks impressive but i havent gotten around to doing it yet.

In reply to petestack:


I know of I think at least six and I would imagine that there are several more!

(I'd have to lower the grade to E2 to qualify... )

In reply to Hammy: Guess there's one who had Indian Face (2nd Ascent), wasn't there?

In reply to Dee:

Not multipitch so it won't count.

Chris

In reply to torbaytradclimber:

The ideal MIA registration will show multi-pitch routes from all over the UK, with sea-cliffs and full-scale mountain routes being well represented. Fionn Buttress on Carnmore crag is given as an example on your registration paper and is an exemplar of a good route to have listed; it's big, remote, solid at the grade, there are traverses and route-finding to think about and in parts it may be loose or dirty. Other top picks would be something like South Face Direct on Chair Ladder (tidal access and sea-state considerations), routes on Cloggy or Scafell (moody atmosphere, could be hell on earth if conditions not judged well) or something on an rarely-trod cliff like Foinaven or Marsco (shows an exploratory understanding). What will definately under-sell your registration is an imbalance of shortish routes at roadside multi-pitch venues like Raven, Shepherds, the Pass, Glen Nevis, etc. I did put Valkyrie at the Roaches on my list, but only to show a diversity of experience; the suggestion (cant remember if this is stated or not?) is that 2/3 of your routes are on serious mountain or sea-cliff terrain.

In reply to torbaytradclimber: Eliminate A on Dow, best multipitch VS south of the border. Something on Cloggy.

In reply to torbaytradclimber: I was tempted to just put a single two word entry - Hard Rock - in my logbook prior to my MIA assessment, but I didn't in the end.

To be honest don't get too hung up on the logbook. You can have the most amazing logbook, can climb fluidly, competently and efficiently on your personal climbing day but it won't stop you getting deferred on another part of the MIA syllabus. Trust me on that!

They do like to see some big routes on complicated cliffs including those with involved approaches or descents. Stuff on less well-traveled cliffs, especially in Scotland is far more relevant than harder but popular classics elsewhere. However all 30 don't need to be routes like that, 6-10 will easily do, with the rest made up of VSs on more popular accessible crags such as Tremadog or Bosigran.

Here's a list of 30 of the UK's finest multi-pitch outings that would demonstrate a massive depth and range of experience without ever climbing harder than VS:

Wales:
Doom, Craig Cywarch
Kirkus's Route, Craig Loer
Kirkus's Route, Craig yr Ogof
Longland's Climb, Clogwn Du'r Arddu
Mallory's Ridge, Y Garn
Muir y Niwl/Pinnacle Wall, Craig yr Ysfa

Lake District:
Eagle Front, Eagle Crag (Buttermere)
Eliminate A, Dow Crag
Grooved Wall, Pillar Rock
Nor'-Nor'-West Climb, Pillar Rock
Silver Lining, Scafell Shamrock
Sinister Grooves, Buckstone How
Square chimney / Medusa Wall, Esk Buttress

Southern England:
Albion, Devil's Slide (Lundy)
Utopia, Cheddar Gorge

Scotland:
Black Mamba, Creag an Dubh Loch
Cental Buttress (VS Route), Beinn Eighe
Fionn Buttress, Carnmore Crag
Original Route, Old Man of Stoer
King Bee, Creag Dubh
Spartan Slab, Etive Slabs
Scabbard, Creagan a'Coire Etchachan
Shangri-La, Sron na Ciche
South Ridge Direct, Cir Mhor
Sword of Gideon, Sgurr a' Chaorachain
The Chasm, Buachaille Etive Mor
The Clean Sweep, Hell's Lum
The Long Climb, Ben Nevis
The Mousetrap, Creag an Dubh Loch
Wether Wall/Wither Wether, The Cobbler

Hope that is of some use...

If you extend the grade to HVS then a whole load more stunning routes come into range. In addition to Moonraker and ADOWH here is another 28 in a similar vein varying from well known to rather obscure:

Wales:
Acheron, Craig Cywarch
Avernus, Trwyn y Gorlech
Central Route / Scarface Finish, Llech Ddu
Cordon Bleu, Gogarth
Exposure Explosion, Ogmore (S Wales)
Fantan B, Craig y Llam
Plexus, Dinas Mot
Sheaf, Clogwyn Du'r Arddu

Lake District:
Centaur, Scafell Crag
Trespasser Groove. Esk Buttress
Scylla, Pillar Rock
Megaton (HVS variation), Pillar Rock
Troutdale Pinnacle Superdirect, Black Crag
The Mortiician, Black Crag

Southern England:
Skeleton Ridge, Isle of White
Little and Large, Long Island (N Cornwall)

Scotland:
Bludger's Revelation, Buachaille Etive Mor
Centurion, Carn Dearg
Cyclops, Creag an Dubh Loch
Dragon, Carnmore Crag
Gob, Carnmore Crag
Inbred, Creag Dubh
Salamander, Creag Glas
The Bullroar, Carn Dearg
The Colonel's Corner, Dungeon of Buchan
The Magic Crack, Coire an t'Sneachda
The Nose of the Fhidhleir, Sgurr an Fhidhleir
The Pause, Etive Slabs

In reply to torbaytradclimber:

Surely the range and variety of crags and climbs is more important than individual routes? On top of this I would have thought that it's vital that an MIA has the ability to pick routes for themselves rather than merely ticking lists. Keep climbing, enjoy your climbiong for it's own sake and I'm sure that a few years down the line you'll know for yourself which routes are worth highlighting in your logbook.

In reply to Jamie Bankhead: Not serious, just mountain and sea cliff terrain. With the up and coming changes that might be happening to the mia scheme people want to get a move on before the goal post move. Soon you might have to do more route pre registration and up your grade as well. Someone already said earlier, just go climbing! If your not that psyched and don't enjoy mountain routes then this is not the award for you. It does not take long to do the scheme. If you get motivated the whole thing can be done in under 3 years easy from ML ass to MIA ass. If you have questions about the shceme get in touch.

Adam (hughesmountaineering.co.uk)

In reply to Mark Stevenson: All good routes. If anyone goes climbing in the Arrans in mid wales expect an adventure.

In reply to torbaytradclimber:

Old Man of Hoy?

In reply to torbaytradclimber: Aim to have a route from every climbing region that ticks all the boxes, a few from the Isles, various mountainous regions of Scotland (and sea cliffs), Lakes, North, Mid and South Wales, Gogarth, West Wales, Pembroke, North and South Devon, Cornwall. That way, apart from good area knowledge, you will encounter lots of different rock types and climbing styles. If you do mountain routes, you can work on your naving as you walk out at the end the day, helping you towards your ML and beyond.

If it's 10mins from the road, can be done in a long single pitch or barely makes the grade, then you won't gain as much from it personally and it won't prepare you for the course either. But, if you have to chase the routes for your logbook then perhaps the scheme is not for you.

In reply to torbaytradclimber:

I'd say the more experience you can clock up the better, at vs and above is the aim, but would'nt worry about really high grades until you naturally progress to them. rather, pick routes at vs or above, in the wildest and most varied settings you can get to and just clock them up. experince of such routes helps you get used to the added complications of such locations, approach, descent, retreat, weather etc. as already said, places like fairhead, scafell, cloggy, gogarth, the old man of hoy, western isles ..... are all going to hit the spot.

Its worth taking into account that the instructing role of an mia takes in alot more than your max grade, you need to be a good teacher. know plenty of people who don't climb big grades that are brilliant teachers.

Most of all enjoy your climbing and go to routes you really want to do, and in time you'll have a full logbook without even thinking of it. Definatly aim for more than 30 routes also, and at a range of different grades, easy classics up to whatever you can push to.

hope that helps, good luck.

In reply to torbaytradclimber:

I remember an MIC assessor saying he'd be far more impressed by a logbook containing The Serpent (wandering exploratory grade IIish on big rarely-trodden face) than the usual lists of Ben classic Vs. I would apply a similar rationale to your MIA registration.