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In response to "a car is only a tool to get from A - B" comments - a thread for the petrol-heads - any thoughts/comments on smallish (not too small - still need to get the camping gear in) performance car.
Chris
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs: Budget?
In reply to Chris Craggs: S3.
STi is a poor car for the cash, to many knobs with RS and my last car was a golf and I grew to hate it. I enjoy driving my Audi though.
STi is a poor car for the cash, to many knobs with RS and my last car was a golf and I grew to hate it. I enjoy driving my Audi though.
In reply to Chris Craggs: The Astra turbo is good and if you go for a older coupe model the boot is very impressive for the type of car.
In reply to Chris Craggs: A 56 plate RS4 went through the auctions here yesterday at £26,000.
In reply to highaltitudebarista:
>
No - if it was I would be after a 1.4 diesel! It is a consideration though, as is depreciation!
Chris
>
> [...]
>
> Is economy more important than performance?
>
> Is economy more important than performance?
No - if it was I would be after a 1.4 diesel! It is a consideration though, as is depreciation!
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs: If you like the RS maybe you could try a T5 C30 or a S40 (volvo) same engine as the ford??
In reply to daveyw (HMC):
Any other suggestions? Happy to be directed and do a few test drives.
Chris
Any other suggestions? Happy to be directed and do a few test drives.
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Mazda RX8, often used as 'training cars' for beginners at race circuits. No reliability problems with my brothers 3 year old one...
Mazda RX8, often used as 'training cars' for beginners at race circuits. No reliability problems with my brothers 3 year old one...
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Legacy Twin Turbo. All the benefits of an impreza without looking like a tw*t.
Legacy Twin Turbo. All the benefits of an impreza without looking like a tw*t.
In reply to Chris Craggs: RS4 is an amazing car. My mum had one and it is quite a lot of fun. Thirsty (I managed to get it down to about 4mpg) but probably about the same as the ones you've listed.
You wouldn't regret buying one. Boot is a decent enough size as well. The estate version might also be worth a look.
You wouldn't regret buying one. Boot is a decent enough size as well. The estate version might also be worth a look.
In reply to Stu Jones:
Issue with space I suspect. Big tent and a lot of other junk goes away with us a lot.
Chris
> Mazda RX8, often used as 'training cars' for beginners at race circuits. No reliability problems with my brothers 3 year old one...
Issue with space I suspect. Big tent and a lot of other junk goes away with us a lot.
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Things like the Focus ST, Golf GTi, Octavia VRs spring to mind, as they would be alot less thirsty, but obviously lacking the extra brute of the RS, STi, R32. If your contemplating the Audi, then surely an M3 has to come into consideration, I know I know I hate BMWs too but they are awesome machines.
Things like the Focus ST, Golf GTi, Octavia VRs spring to mind, as they would be alot less thirsty, but obviously lacking the extra brute of the RS, STi, R32. If your contemplating the Audi, then surely an M3 has to come into consideration, I know I know I hate BMWs too but they are awesome machines.
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Seat Leon Cupra Turbo -fast, practical, good value,not common
Seat Leon Cupra Turbo -fast, practical, good value,not common
In reply to daveyw (HMC): Cheaply put together imho
In reply to Chris Craggs:
checkout running costs too, as insurance starts getting a bit silly and dropping down a couple of groups to go 0.2secs 0-60 slower may make more sense.
checkout running costs too, as insurance starts getting a bit silly and dropping down a couple of groups to go 0.2secs 0-60 slower may make more sense.
In reply to 5cifi:
Yes, in comparison to the S3 and Golf. But that's why it's much cheaper. Good value and fun.
Yes, in comparison to the S3 and Golf. But that's why it's much cheaper. Good value and fun.
In reply to Chris Craggs:
You'd be surprised... easily fits 2 tents, sleeping bags, climbing kit etc plus a boulder mat (BD drop zone) fits on back seat easily...
surprisingly practical - could even get my MTB frame and wheels in the cabin...
The problem is the thirst... never got much more than 22 MPG
> (In reply to Stu Jones)
>
> [...]
>
> Issue with space I suspect. Big tent and a lot of other junk goes away with us a lot.
>
> Chris
>
> [...]
>
> Issue with space I suspect. Big tent and a lot of other junk goes away with us a lot.
>
> Chris
You'd be surprised... easily fits 2 tents, sleeping bags, climbing kit etc plus a boulder mat (BD drop zone) fits on back seat easily...
surprisingly practical - could even get my MTB frame and wheels in the cabin...
The problem is the thirst... never got much more than 22 MPG
In reply to Stu Jones:
Thirsty and gutless, a boring combination. RX-7 would be a better choice.
> (In reply to Chris Craggs)
> Mazda RX8, often used as 'training cars' for beginners at race circuits. No reliability problems with my brothers 3 year old one...
> Mazda RX8, often used as 'training cars' for beginners at race circuits. No reliability problems with my brothers 3 year old one...
Thirsty and gutless, a boring combination. RX-7 would be a better choice.
In reply to Chris Craggs:
The fundamental problem with the A to B argument is that reducing car driving to this mundane, colourless, boring activity makes it very dangerous. Making it fun keeps people's attention. The challenge for the coming decades is to reduce the environmental impact of car use while keeping it as much fun or making it even more fun so that people will take an active interest in doing it well.
I think that the recent BMW ad campaign gives us a very good assessment of the relationship between people and their cars: JOY.
The fundamental problem with the A to B argument is that reducing car driving to this mundane, colourless, boring activity makes it very dangerous. Making it fun keeps people's attention. The challenge for the coming decades is to reduce the environmental impact of car use while keeping it as much fun or making it even more fun so that people will take an active interest in doing it well.
I think that the recent BMW ad campaign gives us a very good assessment of the relationship between people and their cars: JOY.
In reply to Jim Fraser:
Driving in the UK has pretty much become a complete chore; roadworks, camera, queues etc. But despite that I still enjoy getting out on the open(ish) road and eating up the miles.
Chris
Driving in the UK has pretty much become a complete chore; roadworks, camera, queues etc. But despite that I still enjoy getting out on the open(ish) road and eating up the miles.
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs: It's completely impractical and drinks like a tramp, but once you've driven a good one you'll know the answer. And the best bit is it'll keep its value. Forget all the imposters and get yerself an RR engined Quattro. Drives like a go kart with 300 bhp and you will have enough change for several years petrol and maintenance costs. You can get a really nic e one for 8000... and litten to the sound it makes: youtube.com/watch?v=3n-Zq6m9o6U&
In reply to Chris Craggs: I'm suprised no ones suggested a 530d BMW, in practical terms as quick as anything and the estate has the most enormous boot.
In reply to Mr Ree: Oh FFS he's not a flippin rep is he...
In reply to mike kann: my god that sounds amazing!!!!!
In reply to highaltitudebarista:
Only if your best mate's an engine builder I'd dearly love a twin turbo RX7 but I could never bring myself to risk the money which is saying something given some of the the no-hopers I've had!
I assume all the references to R32 are Golf, not Skyline?
20-25k will get you some serious luxury performance if you're buying second hand (very good condition E39 M5 for example) but the running costs on this sort of thing can be daft, I toyed with the M5 idea recently but the £1000+ for brakes and extortionate service bills every 6k put me off. Fuel's a bit of a bear too since it'd be doing 15-20mpg on super!
If I had that in my pocket I'd be looking at 911s and Manual NSXs around the £18-20k mark... probably doesn't quite fit the bill though (as I'm learning now my pad no longer fits in my boot).
jk
> Thirsty and gutless, a boring combination. RX-7 would be a better choice.
Only if your best mate's an engine builder I'd dearly love a twin turbo RX7 but I could never bring myself to risk the money which is saying something given some of the the no-hopers I've had!
I assume all the references to R32 are Golf, not Skyline?
20-25k will get you some serious luxury performance if you're buying second hand (very good condition E39 M5 for example) but the running costs on this sort of thing can be daft, I toyed with the M5 idea recently but the £1000+ for brakes and extortionate service bills every 6k put me off. Fuel's a bit of a bear too since it'd be doing 15-20mpg on super!
If I had that in my pocket I'd be looking at 911s and Manual NSXs around the £18-20k mark... probably doesn't quite fit the bill though (as I'm learning now my pad no longer fits in my boot).
jk
In reply to Chris Craggs: I'll bookmark this thread for when petrol shoots up to 130 a litre in a few months time and everyone is a seller of anything doing less than 20 to the gallon
In reply to woolsack:
Oi - this petrol-heads' thread, not one for ecomentalists.
Go start your own praising cars that cost less than £500 and do 60mpg!
Chris
> I'll bookmark this thread for when petrol shoots up to 130 a litre in a few months time and everyone is a seller of anything doing less than 20 to the gallon
Oi - this petrol-heads' thread, not one for ecomentalists.
Go start your own praising cars that cost less than £500 and do 60mpg!
Chris
In reply to jkarran: I'm finally getting stuck into mine. I chopped the slam bar out yesterday ready for a demountable custom bar so I can get to the engine easily... I'll probably be painting the engine bay tomorrow... then I get to start thinking about a roll cage...
In reply to Jim Fraser:
I think the recent BMW "Joy" ad campaign was a bit creepy, to say the least, given the origins of the German car industry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_Through_Joy
> I think that the recent BMW ad campaign gives us a very good assessment of the relationship between people and their cars: JOY.
I think the recent BMW "Joy" ad campaign was a bit creepy, to say the least, given the origins of the German car industry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_Through_Joy
In reply to Chris Craggs:
How about the 3.2l V6 A3?
A bit more grown-up and discreet than a R32 Golf, but still quick.
How about the 3.2l V6 A3?
A bit more grown-up and discreet than a R32 Golf, but still quick.
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Hardly! My Land Rover 110 has a V8 managing a paltry 13mpg on gas
> (In reply to woolsack)
> [...]
>
> Oi - this petrol-heads' thread, not one for ecomentalists.
>
> Go start your own praising cars that cost less than £500 and do 60mpg!
>
>
> Chris
>
>
> [...]
>
> Oi - this petrol-heads' thread, not one for ecomentalists.
>
> Go start your own praising cars that cost less than £500 and do 60mpg!
>
>
> Chris
>
>
Hardly! My Land Rover 110 has a V8 managing a paltry 13mpg on gas
In reply to mike kann:
Cool, should be awesome when it's done.
I'm currently trying to convince myself that transplanting the goodies from a modern V12 barge into my classic E24 is a good use of the dark winter evenings.
jk
Cool, should be awesome when it's done.
I'm currently trying to convince myself that transplanting the goodies from a modern V12 barge into my classic E24 is a good use of the dark winter evenings.
jk
In reply to jkarran: We've had a number of Mustangs and Spitfires over flying woolsack towers recently and I must say the V12 does make a rather nice sound
In reply to woolsack:
And a huge pile of Newton meters! It's a huge enginebay but I still doubt a Merlin would fit
jk
And a huge pile of Newton meters! It's a huge enginebay but I still doubt a Merlin would fit
jk
In reply to woolsack: the merlin doesnt rev, it sings
In reply to jkarran: We have a Fiat 500 with a small block chevvy in at the moment
In reply to woolsack: I think it might be this one youtube.com/watch?v=RSZLUwiQUIk&
In reply to Chris Craggs:Well I've got an Octavia vRS estate (petrol) that's been thrashed for everyone of it's 111k miles over the past 3 years. It's needed a new aircon pump and 1 tail light bulb in that time - no breakdowns. Pump was smashed so probably hit by a stone or something rather than wearing out. I've just ordered same again. It's worth a test drive
In reply to Chris Craggs:
We scrimp and save to buy your guidebooks and what do you do with the profits? Squander them on fast cars! How many more have you got in the garage? Though I suppose you are a step up from a banker in that your guidebooks are of some use.
We scrimp and save to buy your guidebooks and what do you do with the profits? Squander them on fast cars! How many more have you got in the garage? Though I suppose you are a step up from a banker in that your guidebooks are of some use.
In reply to jkarran:
Do you remember the 27 litre V12 'Roller' and the highly amusing court cases that followed?
youtube.com/watch?v=OxMxFE37Sxw&
Good for a bit of inspiration
Do you remember the 27 litre V12 'Roller' and the highly amusing court cases that followed?
youtube.com/watch?v=OxMxFE37Sxw&
Good for a bit of inspiration
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Looking at the Subaru Impreza WRX STi330. I think Clarkson slated it as a boy racer job with a crap interior that is well overpriced (28k ish) IIRC.
Anyone drive one?
Looking at the Subaru Impreza WRX STi330. I think Clarkson slated it as a boy racer job with a crap interior that is well overpriced (28k ish) IIRC.
Anyone drive one?
In reply to Chris Craggs: Maybe not quite what you're looking for but i like the idea of this http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=20740
In reply to Chris Craggs:
I love fast cars, but the sheer volume of traffic on the roads and cost of a good fast car is inhibitive.
Hence I have got a big motorbike, which allows me to cut journey times down significantly e.g. 2 - 2.5hrs in a car 1hr 15 mins on the bike. Also I get to ride really fast and there aren't that many cars that can out accelerate a big bike.
Obviously an alpine or bouldering (!) trip might be bit tricky with all the kit required, but it's ideal for sport and trad days.
Plus I get to wear leather clothing... oops too much info maybe!
Rich.
I love fast cars, but the sheer volume of traffic on the roads and cost of a good fast car is inhibitive.
Hence I have got a big motorbike, which allows me to cut journey times down significantly e.g. 2 - 2.5hrs in a car 1hr 15 mins on the bike. Also I get to ride really fast and there aren't that many cars that can out accelerate a big bike.
Obviously an alpine or bouldering (!) trip might be bit tricky with all the kit required, but it's ideal for sport and trad days.
Plus I get to wear leather clothing... oops too much info maybe!
Rich.
In reply to Chris Craggs: If you go for the Focus ST, its a bit less boy racerish than the RS, unless you go for the orange one. Its well bolted together and you'll easily get your gear in the back. Fast! but you can still have it remapped to about 300bhp.
In reply to Chris Craggs:
you have a nice budget...
i would be tempted by one of the three....
a BMW 335ci -nearly as fast as an M3 but not as much of a cockrel factor
as you suggest an S3 - really not very good when compared to the 335... they crash around alot are heavy and the 4*4 system eats into the space in the back....
or a new focus ST, taken to stage 2 by code red...
std focus 225bhp, CR stage 1 250ish, stage 2 285bhp stage 3 300-350bhp
its going to be fairly discrete, depending on the colour you get, and fun as hell, downside is it is front wheel drive
you have a nice budget...
i would be tempted by one of the three....
a BMW 335ci -nearly as fast as an M3 but not as much of a cockrel factor
as you suggest an S3 - really not very good when compared to the 335... they crash around alot are heavy and the 4*4 system eats into the space in the back....
or a new focus ST, taken to stage 2 by code red...
std focus 225bhp, CR stage 1 250ish, stage 2 285bhp stage 3 300-350bhp
its going to be fairly discrete, depending on the colour you get, and fun as hell, downside is it is front wheel drive
In reply to EricpAndrew: WTF you on about? The Audi 4X4 has a diff in the back just like any rwd BMW, and the central and forward diff are all in the gearbox, at least they are on my Quattro, and I can't imagine they put the gear box in the back, like on 928's... how does that encroach on space in the back? If it's not very roomy in the back, that's a different story...
In reply to Chris Craggs: Impreza Sti - great fun. Not sure what the image is in the UK... but throwing one around on a test drive was enough to have me grinning like a loon - properly fast, phenomenal grip, great brakes.
Lets face it a 2wd vs 4wd - when you have more than 250hp it is asking a lot of a 2wd focus... go the whole way.
LD
Lets face it a 2wd vs 4wd - when you have more than 250hp it is asking a lot of a 2wd focus... go the whole way.
LD
In reply to mike kann:
running the drive gear through to the back wheels.....
its the reason my firend didnt buy a quattro, although i'll admit I havent seen it myself
running the drive gear through to the back wheels.....
its the reason my firend didnt buy a quattro, although i'll admit I havent seen it myself
In reply to Lurking Dave:
I had a wrx (five door - so quite functional) a few years back and have to admit have never driven anything that allowed you to cover the ground so quickly.
http://www.pbase.com/chris_craggs/image/59984972
Chris
I had a wrx (five door - so quite functional) a few years back and have to admit have never driven anything that allowed you to cover the ground so quickly.
http://www.pbase.com/chris_craggs/image/59984972
Chris
auto express review of the s3
While the quattro drivetrain provides plenty of grip - especially when pulling out of slow corners - there is precious little involvement. This is due mainly to the steering, which is not only too light, but also lacks feedback.
This, combined with the Audi's firm suspension, makes it hard to keep the S3 on a consistent line through bends - constant correction is needed. BMW's similarly priced 130i is far more rewarding and fun to drive. In day-to-day motoring, the S3 is safe and predictable - but it is not especially exciting. The Golf GTI offers far more for the keen driver to enjoy. There is little compensation in terms of comfort, either, with the S3's suspension struggling to cope with B-road bumps and undulations.
Opt for the Audi and you do get plenty of kit as standard. The £26,995 price tag is in part due to the costly four-wheel-drive system, while the marque's image and impeccable build quality also count for a lot. However, buyers would have to value performance and image over sheer driving fun to pick the S3 above its rivals.
Read more: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/203837/audi_s3.html#ixz...
While the quattro drivetrain provides plenty of grip - especially when pulling out of slow corners - there is precious little involvement. This is due mainly to the steering, which is not only too light, but also lacks feedback.
This, combined with the Audi's firm suspension, makes it hard to keep the S3 on a consistent line through bends - constant correction is needed. BMW's similarly priced 130i is far more rewarding and fun to drive. In day-to-day motoring, the S3 is safe and predictable - but it is not especially exciting. The Golf GTI offers far more for the keen driver to enjoy. There is little compensation in terms of comfort, either, with the S3's suspension struggling to cope with B-road bumps and undulations.
Opt for the Audi and you do get plenty of kit as standard. The £26,995 price tag is in part due to the costly four-wheel-drive system, while the marque's image and impeccable build quality also count for a lot. However, buyers would have to value performance and image over sheer driving fun to pick the S3 above its rivals.
Read more: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/203837/audi_s3.html#ixz...
In reply to EricpAndrew:
Amazing how different journos see different things. I have always been a fan of Autocar of auto express and I remember them giving the S3 four and a half stars which is high praise indeed. Couple of quotes from their review:
"On the road the S3 is blindingly good; as quick in a straight line as it is agile across a winding B-road. It is hard to think of many vehicles at any price that would be faster – or more secure – over a wet English B-road.
All in all, we reckon it could be the best car Audi has ever made."
full review here:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsVerdict/Audi-A3-S3-(261bhp)/22...
Still wouldn't fancy one myself, but I haven't got £25k to spend anyway.
Amazing how different journos see different things. I have always been a fan of Autocar of auto express and I remember them giving the S3 four and a half stars which is high praise indeed. Couple of quotes from their review:
"On the road the S3 is blindingly good; as quick in a straight line as it is agile across a winding B-road. It is hard to think of many vehicles at any price that would be faster – or more secure – over a wet English B-road.
All in all, we reckon it could be the best car Audi has ever made."
full review here:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsVerdict/Audi-A3-S3-(261bhp)/22...
Still wouldn't fancy one myself, but I haven't got £25k to spend anyway.
In reply to Chris Craggs: It may be too large for you but my A6 Avant 2.7tdi Quattro keeps me happy and get around 36mpg drving any old way. It has more rear space than a BMW and goes fast enough for me, better than my brothers 525i petrol.
In reply to Chris Craggs: The newer Imprezzas are a bit more mature, not soft but more refined... unless you go for the spec B...
http://sti.subaru.com.au/showroom/
LD
http://sti.subaru.com.au/showroom/
LD
In reply to Chris Craggs:
http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/roadcars/megane250/overview/Default.aspx
"New Mégane Renaultsport 250 is powered by a 2.0-litre turbocharged engine which boasts a power output of 250hp and a particularly broad rev range. 340Nm of torque is available from as low down as 3,000rpm to deliver a level of performance that can be enjoyed both on the road and on a track."
> In response to "a car is only a tool to get from A - B" comments - a thread for the petrol-heads - any thoughts/comments on smallish (not too small - still need to get the camping gear in) performance car.
>
I've always fancied the RenaultSport Clio but if you want some boot-space with the performance you could consider the Megane:>
http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/roadcars/megane250/overview/Default.aspx
"New Mégane Renaultsport 250 is powered by a 2.0-litre turbocharged engine which boasts a power output of 250hp and a particularly broad rev range. 340Nm of torque is available from as low down as 3,000rpm to deliver a level of performance that can be enjoyed both on the road and on a track."
In reply All:
Are any of these 200-300Hp FWD hatches actually usable? It's a genuine question, I'd always be looking for RWD or 4WD in something with that kind of power output (and the associated huge torque figure the modern turbo motors produce). I've driven some fairly high output FWD stuff before but they've all been absolute animals, diving for the hedges and oncoming cars every time you so much as move your right foot or look at a rippled road. In my experience they can at best be calmed down with careful setup but never fully tamed.
jk
Are any of these 200-300Hp FWD hatches actually usable? It's a genuine question, I'd always be looking for RWD or 4WD in something with that kind of power output (and the associated huge torque figure the modern turbo motors produce). I've driven some fairly high output FWD stuff before but they've all been absolute animals, diving for the hedges and oncoming cars every time you so much as move your right foot or look at a rippled road. In my experience they can at best be calmed down with careful setup but never fully tamed.
jk
In reply to Chris Craggs:
I have to question the mental stability and maturity of many of the posters.
I am a fully qualified petrol head having competed, marshalled and serviced in motorsport as well as having a professional background in vehicle design, been fiddling with cars for the last 39 years, and been a transport soldier.
In spite of all this, I refuse to join the merry band of penis-extension-purchasing juveniles who buy the perverse array of car mags and never miss the opportunity for the BBC to rip the piss out of them on Top Gear.
A BMW like mine can be bought for less than a thousand pounds. It's slow, even ponderous in comparison to the some of the machine mentioned above, and will only do a little over 125mph. It is over 12 years old, comfortable, reliable and economical. It has no side-skirts, turbos, fancy wheels, wide tyres, lowering kits or cup-holders. It is maintained more in the vein of an industrial machine, using a careful selection of BMW parts. I know that keeping it on the road is a contribution to environmental protection. I fulfills all my requirements for motorised road transport. I am fortunate that most of its mileage is done on the finest driving roads in the UK. Joy.
I have to question the mental stability and maturity of many of the posters.
I am a fully qualified petrol head having competed, marshalled and serviced in motorsport as well as having a professional background in vehicle design, been fiddling with cars for the last 39 years, and been a transport soldier.
In spite of all this, I refuse to join the merry band of penis-extension-purchasing juveniles who buy the perverse array of car mags and never miss the opportunity for the BBC to rip the piss out of them on Top Gear.
A BMW like mine can be bought for less than a thousand pounds. It's slow, even ponderous in comparison to the some of the machine mentioned above, and will only do a little over 125mph. It is over 12 years old, comfortable, reliable and economical. It has no side-skirts, turbos, fancy wheels, wide tyres, lowering kits or cup-holders. It is maintained more in the vein of an industrial machine, using a careful selection of BMW parts. I know that keeping it on the road is a contribution to environmental protection. I fulfills all my requirements for motorised road transport. I am fortunate that most of its mileage is done on the finest driving roads in the UK. Joy.
In reply to Jim Fraser: Sorry... ? did you read the request from the OP?
I guess not, but you have a BMW, thats lovely.
LD
I guess not, but you have a BMW, thats lovely.
LD
In reply to mike kann:
Your Quattro will never be finished. At least it's out of my field now!
Has anyone ever asked for advice about buying a fast car on UKC without you telling them to buy a rusty old Quattro?
Your Quattro will never be finished. At least it's out of my field now!
Has anyone ever asked for advice about buying a fast car on UKC without you telling them to buy a rusty old Quattro?
In reply to Chris Craggs:
R32, just sold mine. Comfortable, refined, quiet and fast.
As Clarkson said in his Sunday Times review 'Then you put your foot down and suddenly the world starts to go backwards. Not harshly or sportily. It’s not like the GTI, this. It’s a big, refined power, more like gravity than internal combustion'
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/greatest_hits/arti...
R32, just sold mine. Comfortable, refined, quiet and fast.
As Clarkson said in his Sunday Times review 'Then you put your foot down and suddenly the world starts to go backwards. Not harshly or sportily. It’s not like the GTI, this. It’s a big, refined power, more like gravity than internal combustion'
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/greatest_hits/arti...
In reply to mike kann: I have to agree with you there Mike. How could anyone resist the temptation of driving around in of these godly creatures
And for only 11k
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/200934340055352/sort/priceasc...
And for only 11k
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/200934340055352/sort/priceasc...
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Have you considered a Subaru Forester Sti. Add the Litchfield pack and you have reasonable interior (room for a couple of MTB's, climbing and camping gear) matched to 340bhp / 330 ftlbs of fun fun fun.
Alternatively does anyone want a Holden V8. Mines aboit to come up for sale as I'll be getting my Legacy back fairly soon.
Andy
http://www.alpineaccomodation.com
Have you considered a Subaru Forester Sti. Add the Litchfield pack and you have reasonable interior (room for a couple of MTB's, climbing and camping gear) matched to 340bhp / 330 ftlbs of fun fun fun.
Alternatively does anyone want a Holden V8. Mines aboit to come up for sale as I'll be getting my Legacy back fairly soon.
Andy
http://www.alpineaccomodation.com
In reply to EricpAndrew: The only way I would agree with what you're saying is that it is likely has less room because of the rear drive train compared to say a front wheel drive car like a golf, but that's blindingly obvious. I would be interested to know if there is any difference between the FWD and AWD versions in terms of boot space... The rear diff is not going to be any bigger than a BMW diff - I can't see how you think it makes a difference... but hey ho. Personally I would get an S3 anyway but...
In reply to SC: You don't have to get a rusty Quattro like mine. Even you said it was quick when you got in mine whilst it was on the road. And it was a f*ck sight more reliable that that bucket of shit Mitsi you had... and about 15 years older.
In reply to Removed User:
I have a B Spec Legacy at the mo. Looking for something a bit smaller and with a more sporty feel. It is great load-lugger and cruiser (Cham to Zeebrugge in 7.5 hours) - and even reasonable off road(!) but before I get really old I might try one more hot-hatch-type motor.
Chris
I have a B Spec Legacy at the mo. Looking for something a bit smaller and with a more sporty feel. It is great load-lugger and cruiser (Cham to Zeebrugge in 7.5 hours) - and even reasonable off road(!) but before I get really old I might try one more hot-hatch-type motor.
Chris
In reply to mike kann:
The one thing I really like about the S3 is how discrete is - not much in the way of scoops, wings and bulges to attract the attention of thieves and rozzers!
Chris
The one thing I really like about the S3 is how discrete is - not much in the way of scoops, wings and bulges to attract the attention of thieves and rozzers!
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Why not change it for one of the turboed versions. Twin turbo B4-RSK up to '04 or the newer twin scroll Legacy's (available via Southern Ireland as imports). All the comfort and toys you've got used to coupled to excellent handling and that extra vroom......
Andy
https://alpineaccomodation.com
Why not change it for one of the turboed versions. Twin turbo B4-RSK up to '04 or the newer twin scroll Legacy's (available via Southern Ireland as imports). All the comfort and toys you've got used to coupled to excellent handling and that extra vroom......
Andy
https://alpineaccomodation.com
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Hmm, you do have a point there. My son now has an S3 and occasionally I'm allowed to drive it. :¬)
Before the S3 he had an assortment of more trad 'hot hatches' and they all attracted unwelcome attention from the police. Not so the S3 in 6+ months of ownership. Like all Audis it's a bit clinical but very efficient at what it does. OK, there's little or no 'feel' from the steering when you corner, but so what? It still goes round corners as if it's on rails and the ride, though firm, is very comfortable on Mid Wales roads, unlike the A4 S-Line I used to have which was far too firm for the poorer road surfaces we have here. The quality of the S3's interior is faultless, not something I can honestly say about my current £25K VW. It's quite roomy, but 2 tall adults would struggle to travel far in the back but it's ok for one. I suppose you could always stick a roof box on the top if you occasionally couldn't get all your stuff inside.
I have nearly always had fast/powerful cars - 170bhp currently - so would I have an S3?
Yes, without any hesitation whatsoever.......
Test drive one, see what you think.
> (In reply to mike kann)
>
> The one thing I really like about the S3 is how discrete is - not much in the way of scoops, wings and bulges to attract the attention of thieves and rozzers!
>
> The one thing I really like about the S3 is how discrete is - not much in the way of scoops, wings and bulges to attract the attention of thieves and rozzers!
Hmm, you do have a point there. My son now has an S3 and occasionally I'm allowed to drive it. :¬)
Before the S3 he had an assortment of more trad 'hot hatches' and they all attracted unwelcome attention from the police. Not so the S3 in 6+ months of ownership. Like all Audis it's a bit clinical but very efficient at what it does. OK, there's little or no 'feel' from the steering when you corner, but so what? It still goes round corners as if it's on rails and the ride, though firm, is very comfortable on Mid Wales roads, unlike the A4 S-Line I used to have which was far too firm for the poorer road surfaces we have here. The quality of the S3's interior is faultless, not something I can honestly say about my current £25K VW. It's quite roomy, but 2 tall adults would struggle to travel far in the back but it's ok for one. I suppose you could always stick a roof box on the top if you occasionally couldn't get all your stuff inside.
I have nearly always had fast/powerful cars - 170bhp currently - so would I have an S3?
Yes, without any hesitation whatsoever.......
Test drive one, see what you think.
In reply to Lurking Dave:
Yes, and I remain unashamably dismissive of the "S3, STi, R32, RS" toys and all the worthless "performance" accessories that are used to screw money out of the gullible motoring population.
I addressed the A to B issue earlier.
I have mentioned a dirt cheap "smallish (not too small - still need to get the camping gear in) performance car" that is 4.4m long and 1200kg dry but with a decent boot.
> (In reply to Jim Fraser) Sorry... ? did you read the request from the OP?
>
> I guess not, but you have a BMW, thats lovely.
>
> I guess not, but you have a BMW, thats lovely.
Yes, and I remain unashamably dismissive of the "S3, STi, R32, RS" toys and all the worthless "performance" accessories that are used to screw money out of the gullible motoring population.
I addressed the A to B issue earlier.
I have mentioned a dirt cheap "smallish (not too small - still need to get the camping gear in) performance car" that is 4.4m long and 1200kg dry but with a decent boot.
In reply to Jim Fraser:
Cars that can do 0-60 sub six seconds must presumably also have some performance accessories that do work though?
I drove old bangers back in the day - I enjoy a decent smart mota now I am in my dotage!
Chris
Cars that can do 0-60 sub six seconds must presumably also have some performance accessories that do work though?
I drove old bangers back in the day - I enjoy a decent smart mota now I am in my dotage!
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs:
And why not! Its what we work hard for, amongst other things. There's no pockets in a Shroud.
> (In reply to andyr)
but before I get really old I might try one more hot-hatch-type motor.And why not! Its what we work hard for, amongst other things. There's no pockets in a Shroud.
In reply to Chris Craggs:
92 plate Audi Coupe 2.3e.
It cost me a grand, has done 69k, looks and drives like new. It carries 4 people and all their climbing kit, and overtakes most cars on the road, including fancy ones like Porches, new BMW/Audis and anything else you care to mention since its quite quick and mostly the people driving cars at 20-25k dont know how to drive them.
I took a 17 year old climbing the other day and he was well impressed with the fat spoiler on the back, the fancy oil/battery gauges on the dash and the sheer velocity of overtaking performance.
Saved myself 19k I reckon, more than enough to drive my other 2 cars
92 plate Audi Coupe 2.3e.
It cost me a grand, has done 69k, looks and drives like new. It carries 4 people and all their climbing kit, and overtakes most cars on the road, including fancy ones like Porches, new BMW/Audis and anything else you care to mention since its quite quick and mostly the people driving cars at 20-25k dont know how to drive them.
I took a 17 year old climbing the other day and he was well impressed with the fat spoiler on the back, the fancy oil/battery gauges on the dash and the sheer velocity of overtaking performance.
Saved myself 19k I reckon, more than enough to drive my other 2 cars
In reply to kevin stephens: Not even crossed my mind !
In reply to Chris Craggs:
A5 3.0l Quattro. You should get one with around 35,000 miles on for £25,000.
It does 40 mpg on a run and hits 60mph in under 6 seconds.
A5 3.0l Quattro. You should get one with around 35,000 miles on for £25,000.
It does 40 mpg on a run and hits 60mph in under 6 seconds.
In reply to rallymania: those early quattros must have been utter bastards to drive fast
In reply to John Rushby:
Smart looker, but won't fit in the garage I suspect - the Legacy is already a very snug fit, hence looking for something a bit smaller!
Chris
> (In reply to Chris Craggs)
>
> A5 3.0l Quattro. You should get one with around 35,000 miles on for £25,000.
>
> It does 40 mpg on a run and hits 60mph in under 6 seconds.
>
> A5 3.0l Quattro. You should get one with around 35,000 miles on for £25,000.
>
> It does 40 mpg on a run and hits 60mph in under 6 seconds.
Smart looker, but won't fit in the garage I suspect - the Legacy is already a very snug fit, hence looking for something a bit smaller!
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs: a couple of years ago i drove my sister in laws new r32 from mansfield to sheffield and thought it a hoot. a week later i drove a friends 150 bhp tdi golf (possibly gt td ) (it had just come out and he got one of the first) from the lakes to chamonix via somewhere in germany and zurich. the thought of doing the latter in the r32 makes my stomach turn. it would have been like a scence from the young ones where everybody gets out and throws up all over the place. the 150 tdi was a dream , not blistering but plenty fast enough to take four people on a longish trip at speed and in comfort. in short the r32 is great if its someone elses and you can borrow it to pop out bouldering, the tdi is the car id buy if i could have either.
In reply to woolsack:
What I remember of the early eighties stuff is that they were pretty raw but quite communicative for a machine of that size. I have a fond recollection of awesome drifts and easy left-foot braking. My friend David had some lovely tricks with the diff-lock. After I drove a late 90s quattro with all the electronic rubbish it was a completely different experience. It was torture: sensory deprivation to be exact. It was not an experience I am in a hurry to repeat. Typical of recent car developments: safety for f3ckw1ts and disappointment for the competent.
> (In reply to rallymania) those early quattros must have been utter bastards to drive fast
What I remember of the early eighties stuff is that they were pretty raw but quite communicative for a machine of that size. I have a fond recollection of awesome drifts and easy left-foot braking. My friend David had some lovely tricks with the diff-lock. After I drove a late 90s quattro with all the electronic rubbish it was a completely different experience. It was torture: sensory deprivation to be exact. It was not an experience I am in a hurry to repeat. Typical of recent car developments: safety for f3ckw1ts and disappointment for the competent.
In reply to Jim Fraser: I was thinking more of what understeering pigs they were with so much cast iron ahead of the front wheels and a 50-50 torque split. I agree that they were pleasantly free of too much driver assisting gadgetry. I had an 80 Quattro with the 2.2 5 cylinder engine but yearned for the real deal
In reply to Chris Craggs: How about and old shape Mondeo ST220? 3.0L V6, pace, space, godd handling/comfort balance and almost invisible to the naked eye. Great Q-car for not much cash.
Andy F
Andy F
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Nope, that A5 will fit in your garageand it will allow you to stomp past BMW drivers on Ilkley Moor in the snow
> (In reply to Jim Fraser)
>
> Cars that can do 0-60 sub six seconds must presumably also have some performance accessories that do work though?
>
>
> Cars that can do 0-60 sub six seconds must presumably also have some performance accessories that do work though?
>
Nope, that A5 will fit in your garageand it will allow you to stomp past BMW drivers on Ilkley Moor in the snow
In reply to Chris Craggs: Audi A4 2.0 TDI Quattro 170 bhp SLine
In reply to Chris Craggs:
As you are looking to downsize, an M5 is out (but why not try one.....it might put you off downsizing). I've passengered in one several times (owner won't let anyone else near the steering wheel) and it is mind blowing what speed can be achieved for so little effort. Running costs are, however, best described as outrageous. For my 25k, an M3 would be hard to beat, although the S3 / RS4 route is attractive for the grip.
More exotic suggestion, and in your budget, is a mid 90's 911. Even younger if you don't mind some mileage.
Genuine supercar, but built like a tank.
As you are looking to downsize, an M5 is out (but why not try one.....it might put you off downsizing). I've passengered in one several times (owner won't let anyone else near the steering wheel) and it is mind blowing what speed can be achieved for so little effort. Running costs are, however, best described as outrageous. For my 25k, an M3 would be hard to beat, although the S3 / RS4 route is attractive for the grip.
More exotic suggestion, and in your budget, is a mid 90's 911. Even younger if you don't mind some mileage.
Genuine supercar, but built like a tank.
In reply to daveyw (HMC):
I absolutely loved my Leon Cupra, it was awesome and pretty reliable. I've replaced it with an A3 2L turbo which is more powerful but not as much fun. Shame the new Leon doesn't look nearly as good as the old one. I still get a stab of nostalgia when I see a Cupra like my old one...
I absolutely loved my Leon Cupra, it was awesome and pretty reliable. I've replaced it with an A3 2L turbo which is more powerful but not as much fun. Shame the new Leon doesn't look nearly as good as the old one. I still get a stab of nostalgia when I see a Cupra like my old one...
In reply to John Rushby:
This month's What Car rates the current Golf GTi as top of the hot hatches "all things to all men" - might have to test one.
Chris
This month's What Car rates the current Golf GTi as top of the hot hatches "all things to all men" - might have to test one.
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs:
They're OK but the R32 is a wee bit more exclusive.
> (In reply to John Rushby)
>
> This month's What Car rates the current Golf GTi as top of the hot hatches "all things to all men" - might have to test one.
>
> This month's What Car rates the current Golf GTi as top of the hot hatches "all things to all men" - might have to test one.
They're OK but the R32 is a wee bit more exclusive.
In reply to Ian Black:
Not round here they aren't. They come with a bandana and 3 homeboy chums.....
Not round here they aren't. They come with a bandana and 3 homeboy chums.....
New S3 drives well, and get ok fuel economy for the performance, and space is ok, certainly for what you have in mind. For fun, the accelaration and grip in the corners is amazing and just covers the miles.Heard some negative comments on steering feedback but I think it gives enough, probably depends what you are used to. You just have to watch your speed, far too easy to doddle along faster than you think. Holds value better than the alternatives as well, which might be a future consideration.
In reply to John Rushby:
Ha, wouldn't be my choice, but I've never been keen on the GTI since I got rid of my MK1 in the early eighties.
> (In reply to Ian Black)
>
> Not round here they aren't. They come with a bandana and 3 homeboy chums.....
>
> Not round here they aren't. They come with a bandana and 3 homeboy chums.....
Ha, wouldn't be my choice, but I've never been keen on the GTI since I got rid of my MK1 in the early eighties.
In reply to Ian Black:
My girlfriend is stuck on whether to get an S3 or a GTi. I suggested a Brera but much as she loves the look and the interior, she is not so in love with the depreciation.
My girlfriend is stuck on whether to get an S3 or a GTi. I suggested a Brera but much as she loves the look and the interior, she is not so in love with the depreciation.
In reply to John Rushby:
Aye, the VW and Audi's do hold their value better than most. I'm tyre kicking at the moment, don't know what to get. Love the knew RS, but I'd have to wear a baseball hat and put engine on as aftershave if I got one.
> (In reply to Ian Black)
>
> My girlfriend is stuck on whether to get an S3 or a GTi. I suggested a Brera but much as she loves the look and the interior, she is not so in love with the depreciation.
>
> My girlfriend is stuck on whether to get an S3 or a GTi. I suggested a Brera but much as she loves the look and the interior, she is not so in love with the depreciation.
Aye, the VW and Audi's do hold their value better than most. I'm tyre kicking at the moment, don't know what to get. Love the knew RS, but I'd have to wear a baseball hat and put engine on as aftershave if I got one.
In reply to John Rushby: Engine oil
In reply to Ian Black:
ah, makes sense now.
Just don't use clutch fluid - smarts on your shaving cuts
ah, makes sense now.
Just don't use clutch fluid - smarts on your shaving cuts
In reply to happymatt:
Checked the figures
Car Retained Value afer 3 years
Audi S3 52%
Audi S4 36%
Golf GTi 47%
Focus RS 43%
Subaru STi 37%
I'll be worrying about mpg next!
Chris
> New S3 drives well, and get ok fuel economy for the performance, and space is ok, certainly for what you have in mind. For fun, the accelaration and grip in the corners is amazing and just covers the miles.Heard some negative comments on steering feedback but I think it gives enough, probably depends what you are used to. You just have to watch your speed, far too easy to doddle along faster than you think. Holds value better than the alternatives as well, which might be a future consideration.
Checked the figures
Car Retained Value afer 3 years
Audi S3 52%
Audi S4 36%
Golf GTi 47%
Focus RS 43%
Subaru STi 37%
I'll be worrying about mpg next!
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs:
I'm a bit surprised at those figures; the new S4 Estate looks like a great car. decent economy and emissions (all things considered), decent space and lovely looking for an estate.
S3 is just that bit to small for me.
Check out the prices of the old RS6 - what a bargain. Very tempting.
I'm a bit surprised at those figures; the new S4 Estate looks like a great car. decent economy and emissions (all things considered), decent space and lovely looking for an estate.
S3 is just that bit to small for me.
Check out the prices of the old RS6 - what a bargain. Very tempting.
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