UKC

In reply to The_JT: I was always told that you should accelerate in the highest possible gear and de-accelerate in the lowest possible gear trying not to use the breaks at all. That said, this was before ABS. Mind you, I have had a few scary ABS moments. On ice it would seem that locked wheels (handbreak) are definitely more effective than ABS so a low gear for breaking is still logical to me.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

You have just found my most common bad habit!

In reply to The_JT: My top tip, if you're struggling to pull away, try letting out the clutch really really slowly with your foot off the accelerator. You have to be very gentle indeed to prevent the engine stalling, but it's possible*.

* if it's not possible, try holding the engine revs just a wee bit higher as you do it.

Cheers,

FT.

In reply to The_JT:

well, it probably helps if you're a Finn, and therefore used to the conditions. A well prepared car, co-driver with pace notes, talent, training, dedication and massive cojones probably all help as well.

Failing that, take it steady.

In reply to The_JT: See how narrow the snow tyres are?

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

How do you propose making the car change direction then!?

In reply to The_JT:
When sliding on ice your best hope of braking is to ease very gently onto the brakes or try gentle tapping. ABS is your enemy

In reply to The_JT:

And remember, if you get it wrong there's always this option...

youtube.com/watch?v=HbWapjctSQs&

In reply to The_JT:

Drive as though you have an egg under your right foot that you don't want to break - it makes you a lot gentler on the brake and accelerator and forces you into thinking a bit more in advance than you might otherwise.

In reply to MG:

You turn the wheel, but you keep your hands locked onto it, you don't 'feed' it.

In reply to Nigel Modern:

I do, but I *really* don't want to buy new tyres!

In reply to most sensisble replies:

Thanks, I do lots of these things already, apart from the starting in second and keeping my hands in a sensible place on the wheel.

Is there anything in particular you'd recommend on hills?

In reply to The_JT:
At low speed if you can no longer go forward, go backward. The snow you have just driven on will still be drivable. So if you hit a bump of compressed snow and cant get over it then go backward and try again, rather than just thrashing the engine. Sometimes you may need to rock the car back and forth to get out of a rut, so lots of quick changes from 2nd to reverse and back again. (I have a neighbor who sometimes parks at the end of my drive, so I have to do an 8 point turn to get out.)

In reply to The_JT: When going up keep your speed up, when going down, keep in a low gear and tap the breaks repeatedly, ABS is not good.

In reply to The_JT:

steer with the rear?

In reply to link:

Haha - I'd love to, but in a front wheel drive?

In reply to The_JT:

I suppose practice makes perfect, find a car-park where you can try various combinations of gears and accelerator to see what works best for your particular car. Not as easy as people make out, biggest problem is modern tyres in general are too wide to be used in snow.
What I used to do when I lived 3 miles as the crow flies from Knockhill Race Circuit was as soon as the roads were covered in snow I'd head up there to play about on the access roads into circuit, although it helped that I had a Mini back then, a car that is brilliant in snow.
Very soon learned such things as left-foot braking and using the hand-brake to move the back end of the car around. It gave me the confidence to know what to do when the car slid and also throttle control to get going again if stuck.

On snowy roads more grip can be had on the untracked snow outwith the tyre tracks as it is usually soft enough to get into tyre treads to give you grip on the snow underneath.
Be gentle with all the controls steering, brakes, accelerator, although as you say sometimes spinning the wheels will give you grip especially with a small car with narrower tyres, it's learning when this will work that's the problem.

In reply to The_JT:

From my experience, keeping in a low-gear downhill can easily cause a skid. I've found it better to keep in a higher gear, with no engine braking, and gently tap the brakes (in a straight line preferably!). At least this slows all four wheels and the ABS may also help a bit.

Going downhill towards a bend, you have to shed loads of extra speed whilst approaching and accept that you'll gather speed going around it.

Once you're on the bend though, you just have to take a wide line and avoid the temptation to even touch the brakes - if you start to skid there's not a lot you can do unless you have room to steer into it.

Obviously, keeping a huge gap between the car in front helps. It also gives you warning if they start to skid.

These are just the things I've found, from both normal cars and RWD sports cars too.

In reply to the crabbit man:

I am very disappointed that I have so far failed to perform a perfect 180 degree hand-brake turn in my car on the snow

I'll keep trying, as it's far more fun than a 3-point turn in the car park next to my sister's house

In reply to The_JT:

The "rocking" technique works really well when you're trying to (for example) get out of your parking spot or climb over frozen drifts. Lift the clutch on each forward roll, and press it down to roll back again.

In reply to The_JT:

Has no one mentioned steering gently into the direction of slide? I'm 'countersteering' most of the time when traction is poor.

In reply to The_JT: If you have traction control switch it off on snow and ice. It doesn't behave very well in these conditions. Fordies anyway.

In reply to The_JT:

Keep the speed up. Where it's really deep and/or steep remember to jack up the suspension and engage the diff lock before launching in. Only spin the wheels when you know there is a hard substrate within an inch or so.

No idea how you cope in a light front-wheel drive hatchback!

In reply to The_JT:


steer in gently and early, give a dab of handbrake but dont hold it on. Steer in to balance the car and apply gentle power. Its all about slow movements.

but you will hit a kerb/drift at some point. Best not to have shiney alloys!

In reply to Offwidth:

As I said - it only works where you've got room to do so! You're right though, it only takes a small amount of 'countersteering' if you're just trying to correct a very slight understeer. Once oversteer kicks in, things can get very messy, very quickly indeed!

In reply to LastBoyScout:

A reverse flick is even more fun, if you have the room. Easy in a front-wheel drive car, more difficult if it's rear-wheel drive.

Put it into reverse and floor the throttle, as the car picks up speed turn the steering quickly, keeping your foot on throttle until car it's almost facing other way then quickly lift off. Put in 1st gear and head off in new direction.

Do this for first time in empty car-park.

Some of our work Focuses have ESP. I found that, once moving, they can get up pretty steep snowy/icy hills by leaving them in 1st gear, using a considerable amount of throttle, and then letting the ESP do its thing, which seemed to be putting down as much power as the available grip would allow. It worked fairly well, albeit very slow.

In reply to The_JT:

I've just been told 3 simple rules

1) no hard accelerating
2) no sudden braking
3) no sharp cornering

* I'm sure this doesnt help much if you live at the top of a 1:5 slope or have to navigate black ice... but its a good start i thought.

In reply to simonp:

Yes, that's the problem, isn't it? This steering in the direction of the slide only works if done very gently, and at slow speeds, because once the car is going sideways/slightly sideways, if the front wheels start to bite that will slow the front of the car down and act as a kind of pivot, and the back will carry on sideways - the whole thing now moving in the direction of the slide, helped by the fact that that's the way the front wheels are now pointing. As I understand it, the closer the front and back wheels are to being in a straight line the better chance you'll have of getting out of the skid, if/when the wheels bite onto something less slippery.

Experts please correct me if I'm wrong - which I could easily be.

In reply to LastBoyScout:


Much to my horror my boyfriend has perfected it - I'm NOT impressed

In reply to The_JT:

Another good way to drive in the snow is to leave your front door ajar on a windy day...

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

That's why you're better off with rear wheel drive, where the oversteer is much easier to deal with by just easing off the throttle.

In reply to The_JT:

This has been an interesting discussion, with input from lots of techno dweebs.

I have found that it varies with my traction on and off. Sometimes it is better without, like on packed snow, and others with it off, like on ice / wet snow.

http://www.a5oc.com/forums/showthread.php/esp-off-stuck-9713/index.html

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Actually, the main point about the 'steering into the slide' advice is that if you are travelling at any speed you need to do it really quickly. I think the inexperienced just don't react quickly enough.

In reply to Dave Garnett:
My take on it has always been that in good conditions you are less likely to really lose it with front wheel drive but when it does go you are a bit stuffed, where as RWD you are more likely to slide but it is generally more recoverable. In slippery conditions RWD can be a real handfull if you aren't careful. In conditions where you may get bogged down RWD are a pig as you have to look after all 4 wheels to maintain drive and control as opposed to just the front two. Also in slippery conditions front wheel drive has the advantage of extra weight over the driven wheels (or maybe I'm just an embittered driver of a long wheel base, light weight, rear wheel drive car).

In reply to The_JT:

I assume you were replying to the steer with the rear post?


You can use left-foot braking to move the rear of FWD car around in relation to front. Have car in 2nd or 3rd, keep foot on throttle pedal and as you turn into corner dab your left foot on brake, not hard just enough to momentarily lock rear wheels, the rear end will slide around in relation to front as front wheels are still being turned by engine so don't lock. If the rear end goes too far, steer into slide but keep foot on throttle, you are now 4-wheel drifting at about 20mph.
Left foot braking can also be used if you turn into corner but understeer, dabbing the brakes with left foot stops the understeer but not the slide but at least the car should be turning into corner better.


Don't do any of this on public roads unless you have no option, it's better to drive at slower speeds to keep control but obviously you can still skid at these lower speeds. Practice in empty car-park so as not to annoy plod. Or endanger other road users.

In reply to Reach>Talent:

My favourite car when I used to go and find snow to drive on for fun was an Opel Manta. When I recall how fast we used to take snowy lanes I wonder how we never ended up in a ditch or worse. Now I only go looking for trouble in the Disco.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

RWD can be a nightmare when trying to get up a hill though, without the weight of the engine sat over the driven wheels (see all the Beamers & Mercs struggling!) - wide tyres which often accompany them don't help either...

Many RWD cars are still set up to favour understeer first, so in practice they don't seem to drive too differently from other cars until the skidding really gets underway.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Yes, obviously I was talking about a bog-standard front wheel drive car, such as I've been driving all my life (maybe the Corsair my father had, which was one of the cars I learned to drive on, had rear wheel drive?)

In reply to Dave Garnett:

<note_to_self> Steer clear of discos when Dave 'The Rave' Garnett's in town </note_to_self>

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Of course RWD only differs from FWD while power is being put down. On snow, chances are that if you're skidding then you've already lifed off! I think in practice, RWD can give you more control going round a normal bend but how many people are really going to power down to try and correct a skid? (Or have a car with sufficint power for it to actually work fast enough)

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Exactly that. But the main thing about being inexperienced in dealing with skids - and how many of us really have experience of that? ... my main experiences being when I've lost control of a number of cars, sadly - is that the wheel can/will go all over the place if you don't know what you're doing and you're struggling to right it. The big problem then, once the car has broken away, is that, if you've been steering conventionally, feeding the wheel at high speed, you've no idea where the centre is anymore. You're in effect just playing with the steering wheel then, i.e. completely lost it.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Grim postscript. Then what happens is not that you crash into the thing you've been trying to avoid, but that it crashes into you.

In reply to simonp:
Don't buy a Saab! you'd think given that it's a Swedish Car it would cope with the snow...turns out it's not and mine stays on the drive when this weather is in. Its useless in the snow, although turning the TC off helps. But the wide tyres that give it grip in the dry make it a nightmare in the snow.
I'd swap it for a 4x4 tomorrow given the chance. Its a 2004 Saab 93 Conv 2.0turbo in black.

In reply to Jones:

At least a Volvo offers some Elk impact protection!

In reply to Jones: saab 93, it's GM, so it's on a Vauxhall Vectra chassis. Tyre width and torque are the bigger problems though, not the make and model.

In reply to Toby S:

This has been the most important post so far.

Gently. Gently. Gently.


Practice is extremely valuable. Nothing written here can approach the value of practice.

If you can find a large area of ice or compacted snow where there are few obstructions then you should use it to practice simple things like starting from rest and emergency stops. Starting and stopping are the first priorities. Once you have worked out how your car behaves in those circumstances, perhaps move on to going round in a circuit. Get used to how sharply you can turn into a corner and how you can recover when the car skids. Go round in one direction and then the other.

Unless you have access to something the size of an airfield, you are unlikely to be doing more than 15 mph on snow or half that on wet ice.

This is not about handbrake turns and hollywood stunts, just establishing how your vehicle behaves during basic driving manoeuvres. Not to be confused with thousands of boy-racer types in supermarket car parks who think they are Sebastien Loeb in a rusty one litre 14 year old AX with a front spoiler and hanging dice.

In reply to Jones:

This was always true. Even the trusty old 96 was rubbish in the snow unless you did what the Swedes do and fitted snow tyres.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

What a machine! I remember when we used to do marshalling on the Scottish in the 1980s, watching the Manta 400s getting off the line. Everything else crouched down when the power was applied but the Mantas stood up! It was amazing to watch. They just pressed down on the ground and applied all that power.

Nothing like them exists now.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Lift off overstear if you are too excessive.

I have an S2000, it is hair raising in these conditions. My approach (after high performance course) is no excessive inputs when changing direction. As for hills, I haven't given it a go.

In reply to Jim Fraser:

Can remember going into forests in 80's to watch Jimmy McRae and Russel Brooks in their Mantas. Another abiding memory is of seeing Ari Vatanen absolutely hammering through Blairadam forest stage in Fife in a MK2 Escort to then find out later, in the Motoring News or Triple C that the back axle was only attached to car with some bits of scrap chain and some bolts, ie not very attached at all. Didn't seem to slow him down. Always admired him after that.

In reply to The_JT:

Drive as though you have a glass of water on the dashboard.

In reply to Jim Fraser:

Ah, the Manta fan club is in now. Even better, my first one was a company car, with all that that implies. There was something about the long wheelbase, the predictable way it delivered the power and even behaved itself under silly braking. Happy days, although completely irresponsible of course!

In reply to The_JT:

The other one, which is completely counter intuitive to me, is to dip the clutch when cornering in really slippy conditions. Apparently a freewheel grips (marginally, I suspect) better than a driven wheel.

Seems to work, but doesn't feel right to me!

In reply to LastBoyScout:


When you've done that try the Knight Rider manoeuvre. Fast reverse, 180 spin and drive off forwards all without stopping. I succeeded, after some practice, one snowy winter's day in the car park of Eldorado Canyon. Very satisfying!

In reply to The_JT:

4 things I have learnt this winter (i've only been driving for 13 months).

1. Use 2nd gear in snow (with low revs).
2. It's always good to have an ice axe/spade in the boot.
3. Matts in the car can be used for grip.
4. Leave a mahooosive gap between you and the car infront because they are liable to do silly things like
.....slam on and skid all over the road scaring traffic coming the other way.
.....go so slow that you have to crawl, therefore loosing momentum so you both have to push!
.....stop at the top of a hill so everyone behind them gets stuck on the up!

In reply to Ridge:

This works because even with your foot off the throttle there is still a braking effect from engine to driven wheels when in gear, which means in marginal grip conditions it might be all that is needed to make car skid.
So dipping clutch allows wheels to turn freely reducing risk of overcoming grip levels.
Doesn't feel right to me either.

In reply to The_JT:

To be honest I think a lot of advice about how to drive in the snow boils down to "very, very carefully" and "if you are going to hit anything, try not to aim for anything human".

Our street is long, straight, ungritted and quiet and I've watched a sucession of folk barrelling down it at 40mph+ today, despite the 6 inch snow cover, which is on top of sheet ice.

Just hoping they don't use our front wall to slow down.

For what its worth I have been;

Starting in second gear.
Using engine braking rather than the (to be honest, with abs useless) brakes.
If I'm going to do any changes of direction, making sure its at the lowest possible speed.
Plan when I'm going to stop about 300 yards in advance.

Also, FWIW, I would advise against trying left foot braking anywhere on a public road for the first time. Your left foot is used to kicking the clutch pedal, and you'll be suprised how hard it can kick...

In reply to Jim Fraser:


Cobblers. The 96 was brilliant in snow. I was instructed on how to drive very fast in the snow (in the drak on single track roads) by an older Carlsson-fixated rally driver in mine, though I did have road/snow rally tyres on it. Even with the standard rubber, it was vastly superior to pretty much anything around at the time, and probably everything now. I suspect a 2cv would be good too.

Bit suprised you wrote that. You, (along with JKarran and Sutty) are one of very few on here who stand out as having anything sensible to say about cars and driving in general.

Here is an entertaining video of how to have fun in the snow with a 96, oddly featuring an inept Manta.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-2442560461244519468&ei=hCVOS...

In reply to The_JT:

On side streets, narrow roads, car parks, etc. where it is flat-to-gently sloping the basic rule is to drive slowly and in control. Use the clutch and the gears, not the accelerator, and only the brake once you have slowed to a near stop in first gear. Pull away in first or second - first if you want to manoeuvre at a crawl, using clutch control to modulate your speed. Change up into second to go a bit faster, and back down into first to slow down (e.g. to get round a parked car or icy bend in the road). Only use the accelerator once you are on wider roads, in a higher gear, and need to build up speed.

In reply to johnSD:

I'd agree with "slowly and carefully". Last night we managed to get our 4 tonne ambulance stuck in the snow. Luckily we carry snow socks (sort of like canvas snow chains) and got out, but in non gritted areas, it was hard to avoid some nice Torvill and Dean impressions

In reply to johnSD:

Engine braking can cause the wheels to lock-up, particulary on RWD. I've found brakes offer more control since they apply to all 4 wheels and the electronics (brake force distribution), if fitted, can help keep it straight.

In reply to Removed User:

>
>
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Yes, agree with you there, it's what the original Stig drove.

A long, long time ago when I used to do White Water canoe racing, we did a race that started from the car-park in Calendar. There was a large area of flat land in a loop in the river that in the summer had a small fairground on it and you could drive on to it from car-park. Anyway this was winter and the river had flooded the bit of land to a depth of about 2 or 3 inches and it had then been frozen, river had dropped back to normal winter levels leaving this very large icy skid pan.
One of the guys I knew from university was a Norwegian who had a Saab 96 estate and after the race we spent hours driving on this ice chasing each other and getting up to speed in car-park before throwing our cars about on the ice with the handbrake and left-foot braking. Have to say the 96 was every bit as good as my Mini, grip and handling-wise, on this ice. It got a bit crowded after a while with other cars but they tended to give up because they couldn't get any grip.

In reply to Removed User:

That's your idea of a factual report is it? It showed the right foot on the brake for a start, which cant be right on a 96. Was that a specially bent gear lever: to keep it away from fast moving hands on the wheel?

Dodgy LSD and a freewheel: not most people's idea of fun. A guy I knew bought a 96 and couldnt get to the Cairngorm car park in it so went home for his Mini van.

In reply to Jim Fraser:

If you thought I meant that vid as a factual report then you need to grow a sense of humour. For the record I don't advocate blowing up police cars and decapitating pedestrians with golf clubs either.

I never used the freewhel thing, never liked it or got the hang of it.

Your mate with the mini van should read this thread, he might get some tips on how to drive in the snow.

In reply to simonp:

Agreed.



Not quite lock-up. And not 'particularly RWD'. With RWD it should bring stability because most of the mass is in front of the braked wheels. With FWD it brings instability because most of the mass is behind the braking wheels and is trying to get in front!

In reply to the crabbit man:

>A reverse flick is even more fun, if you have the room

We used to practice on a hard sand beach to do both forward and reverse turns. Get it wrong though and you rolled it.

My tip for failing on a hill and sliding down, forward or backwards. Pick a decent kerb or grass bank to run into, better than writing the vehicle off and you may get going again with no damage at all.
Keep feet off the brakes, get it in the lowest gear and foot off the throttle going downhill. Going down my street ATM in 2nd would have me at the bend at the end going too fast to turn on the icy road and slide into the car parked there.

As someone said, pretend there are eggs under your foot and apply the lightest pressure you can on the pedals. Same with the steering, imagine an egg in an egg cup on the bonnet you cannot tip off as it may cost you £1000 to do so.

Remember the tortoise and the hare, well not many people shot the tortoise.

In reply to sutty:


OK, so I was following you until "...not many people shot the tortoise."

Are you saying if I drive too quickly I will be shot? That would certainly slow me down!

In reply to The_JT:

Lot of dead hares on the road.

In reply to The_JT:

- Look for the grip. It may not be in the conventional place. (Think like a biker.)

- Momentum and a very steady right foot is what gets you up hills. Make sure you get a run at it: inconveniencing others who are not going uphill is acceptable. Make sure you are doing (example for 4 cyl petrol) typically a steady 2500 rpm in an appropriate gear for a moderate hill on ordinary roads and just hold the throttle steady, perhaps lifting it a tiny bit if you hit a very slippery bit. Steer as straight a course as is possible or you will spin the inside wheel and stop. (If necessary, rearrange passengers and luggage to concentrate as much weight as possible over the driving wheels. If your mother doesn't like sitting with your toolbox on her lap then she can always walk home.)

- Many FWD cars will get up hills better in reverse.

- When you are coming to a stop in traffic, do not stop in the conventional place if it will get you into trouble. Everyone else has stopped there and has polished it. Stop several metres back from a traffic light if necessary. If you can position the car so that it is level or facing downhill even a little then this will help. This might involve using a slightly odd road position. Anticipate, anticipate, anticipate. (People might even think you are being courteous by holding back: just don't get in my way b1tch!)

- When pulling away, let the ECU and the dual-mass flywheel do the work. Just lift the clutch extremely gently and let it crawl forwards at idle and then gently press the throttle once it rolls onto a better surface.

- Always get your shovel out and prepare your parking place. Don't be shy. People tend not to argue with a person swinging a decent sized steel shovel. Saves on gym fees.

- If you come to a difficult section of road, perhaps littered with cars, perhaps with very icy patches or some drifting, do not barge in. Hold back, if conditions allow, and assess. Perhaps walk it first, shovel in hand. If necessary, attack the verges with the shovel and spread earth on the worst bits. Pick as straight a course as possible and use the steady throttle as for hills. (If a copper tells you to do something different, look at his feet. If he's not wearing decent boots then it's case of 'You and who's army?')

- At night, look deep into the part of the road lit by oncoming vehicles and watch for reflections from ice.

- Think about where the cold air can badly affect road conditions: bridges, in forests, in deep valleys. Places where the sun does not reach or where cold air is beneath as well as above the road.

- If you come upon a patch of snow or ice that surprises you, perhaps in a long corner, and have no time to slow down, pressing the clutch may get you through it. With the drive disengaged, all wheels have equal driving torque of zero and the car may just roll across the slippery patch.

In reply to The_JT:

Purposely get out when it snows, hit the back roads and drive about. That's how you learn. You might have some minor bumps but you will learn car control.

(Ideally in a mini or a Mk2 Escort)

In reply to The_JT: Not sure if it always work for all cars, but if you're trying to get up a hill in a front-wheel drive car, try reversing it up. going up a hill tends to throw the weight backwards, giving you LESS traction on the front wheels; reversing it up puts more weight and thus more friction on the front wheels, where you want it.

In reply to The_JT: something to remember, the split second before you hit something realy hard take your feet off the pedals so they dont get mangled in them...

In reply to LastBoyScout:



You must be a bit timid then, feed a bit of power in partway through to keep you going, works in my Volvo v70 auto.

Anyone in an auto, winter mode and giving it a bootful only works to a certain extent, the computer eventually fails you. ESP off, into manual and drive like a manual, has got me everywhere so far on the North Yorkshire moors, even when I thought I was gonna be stuck!

In reply to Dave Garnett:


And most that do, experienced or not, tend to over-react often making the situation worse. Most of the time all you need do is gently release the pressure on the steering and adjust the throttle to gradually kill the rotation. Playstationesque opposite lock antics are for rallying, drifting and when you've already allowed the situation to get out of hand.

While there are undeniably a few tricks, the 'rules' for driving on low grip surfaces are pretty simple: Plan ahead, no aggressive inputs and leave yourself plenty of room to work with.

jk

In reply to KTT: ABS _is_ good. If the ABS kicks in, you know that at least one wheel would have locked had you not had ABS. Use it to test for grip: give the brakes a good jab 100m or more before a junction, corner, or hill and if it kicks in, that's your early warning to slow down gently.

In reply to The_JT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enVkYaJZ0Dg&NR=1

(you might want to turn the soundtrack off)

In reply to jkarran:

I agree. It's the combination of reacting instantly, yet gently, that is difficult to describe and takes practice. How quickly it snaps back and starts fishtailing depends a bit on the wheelbase but more on the driver!

In reply to the crabbit man:

'the car-park in Calendar'

Callander FFS!!!!!

In reply to NorthernRock:

Yes, computers only work for snow and ice on frozen Swedish lakes when there are cameras about.

But the torque converter is your friend. Even if you are not smooth as silk, it always will be.

In reply to Jim Fraser:

You forgot to put;

Switch the radio off and listen to your tyres. If all goes quiet you may be on black ice, and you can hear water and slush on the road.

In reply to The_JT:

I have no problems driving in the snow. My new company vehicle is ace.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_cbQVHziXlm8/Roo1QPnCYLI/AAAAAAAAAUg/uypc4uk_L1s/83+Al...

In reply to KeithW (LMC):

Oooh you have internet access as well down there. Looks good, hope you like it.

In reply to KeithW (LMC):

I hope you are not paying UK tax because there is not a special category for vehicles that are not cars or vans and you will be taxed on the full value of the benefit!

In reply to sutty:

Very good point.

In reply to Jones:

That's because it is designed to be driven in the winter with studded snow tyres, as in a lot of areas in the scandy countries it is a legal requirement to have them on from November to march.

Simples!