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People of Birmingham,
Which wall is better,
Redpoint or Creation?
Points of view much appreciated
Cheers
Which wall is better,
Redpoint or Creation?
Points of view much appreciated
Cheers
In reply to Tall Josh:
Its definately Redpoint, I cant tell you why as they'll pull the thread again....
Its definately Redpoint, I cant tell you why as they'll pull the thread again....
Oh, did they pull this thread last night? Oops. I didn't mean it to be contraversial. I just wanted to know some honest pro's and con's for each centre as they both look great but they are such close neighbours that they both must offer something?
In reply to Tall Josh:
In my opinion, Redpoint offers:
- a variety of thoughtfully designed, well-featured walls that make excellent use of the space available
- interesting, challenging, accurately-graded routes and boulder problems
- a warm, friendly atmosphere, with kind, courteous, supportive staff who go out of their way to make you feel welcome
- the convenience of a well-stocked climbing shop in-house (Rock On - it is not part of Redpoint per se) which is also staffed by friendly, knowledgeable people
I can't really comment on Creation, as I've only climbed there a handful of times. I prefer to climb at Redpoint for all of the reasons above.
Hope that helps.
Darren
In my opinion, Redpoint offers:
- a variety of thoughtfully designed, well-featured walls that make excellent use of the space available
- interesting, challenging, accurately-graded routes and boulder problems
- a warm, friendly atmosphere, with kind, courteous, supportive staff who go out of their way to make you feel welcome
- the convenience of a well-stocked climbing shop in-house (Rock On - it is not part of Redpoint per se) which is also staffed by friendly, knowledgeable people
I can't really comment on Creation, as I've only climbed there a handful of times. I prefer to climb at Redpoint for all of the reasons above.
Hope that helps.
Darren
In reply to Tall Josh: Its redpoint every time for me! fantastic staff very interesting and challenging routes (esp is Martin or Mirf have set them) and prob best of all amazing tea and cakes.
Get down there and give it a try.
Get down there and give it a try.
Interesting, 2 Redpoint reviews and nothing from Creation fans yet!?!
You don't often hear accurately graded and indoor climbing combined. Good to know some get it right.
In reply to Tall Josh:
Better for what? What exactly do you want to get out of the wall? Different walls will provide different things for different people. Simply asking which is "better" just encourages people to give personal preferences which will not be relevant for you.
Better for what? What exactly do you want to get out of the wall? Different walls will provide different things for different people. Simply asking which is "better" just encourages people to give personal preferences which will not be relevant for you.
In reply to Tall Josh:
Creation's much bigger with far better bouldering, but Redpoint feels more like you're part of a climbing family. Depends what you need - if you're after a more convivial atmosphere and good routes, go to Redpoint. If you're after an aircraft hanger full of bouldering (and probably pretty good routes - been a while since I've been), go to Creation.
Creation's much bigger with far better bouldering, but Redpoint feels more like you're part of a climbing family. Depends what you need - if you're after a more convivial atmosphere and good routes, go to Redpoint. If you're after an aircraft hanger full of bouldering (and probably pretty good routes - been a while since I've been), go to Creation.
In reply to Tall Josh:
I live in Birmingham and have climbed at both Redpoint and Creation.
Redpoint has the more interesting routes, many different angles rather than straight up a flat wall, but is relatively small. They do well with the space though, packing in good routes, two decent bouldering areas and a good independent shop.
Creation is massive, and probably has 4x the number of sports routes of Redpoint, as well as a huge new bouldering area. The routesetting is generally good, but since they started a reset of all the sport routes a couple of weeks ago I haven't been to try the new ones out.
Personally I prefer Creation, though I still go to Redpoint every month or so to keep things interesting. I think its all about personal preference though, as I have friends that go to Creation and hate Redpoint, and vice-versa.
I live in Birmingham and have climbed at both Redpoint and Creation.
Redpoint has the more interesting routes, many different angles rather than straight up a flat wall, but is relatively small. They do well with the space though, packing in good routes, two decent bouldering areas and a good independent shop.
Creation is massive, and probably has 4x the number of sports routes of Redpoint, as well as a huge new bouldering area. The routesetting is generally good, but since they started a reset of all the sport routes a couple of weeks ago I haven't been to try the new ones out.
Personally I prefer Creation, though I still go to Redpoint every month or so to keep things interesting. I think its all about personal preference though, as I have friends that go to Creation and hate Redpoint, and vice-versa.
In reply to Tall Josh:
I have climbed at both and prefer Creation. The grading's a bit soft but that's not an issue as the routes themselves are fab. The new bouldering Sections ace as well!
I have climbed at both and prefer Creation. The grading's a bit soft but that's not an issue as the routes themselves are fab. The new bouldering Sections ace as well!
In reply to Tall Josh:
Both walls are very different and have pro's & cons.
Red point has a great variety of difficult technical routes using there wall & roof structures, though it can be very challenging for mid range routes, if you climb 6b/6c & above there is loads of choice.
Creation has recently had a major overhall, huge new boulder area and a big overhall of the exhisting walls, there is a wide variety of routes across all the grades and the quality of them has improved lots recently.
I've never had a problem with the atmosphere at either wall, Redpoint is good when is chilly as the area is smaller so therefor warmer, though this can be a negative when its really busy. Creation has lots more space and doesn't tend to feel so overcrowded.
I tend to climb at Creation, but do go to other local walls for a bit of variety, some people have favorites but give both a try, its a shame folk can be so nasty as we are all climbers who love our sport and indoor walls are our only access in the area to climb, Bear Rock - Coventry and Wolf Mountain - Wolverhampton also have good qualities too. Its great that we have a selection of indoor walls in the west mids and as climbers it would be great if we could support them all for our sport.
Both walls are very different and have pro's & cons.
Red point has a great variety of difficult technical routes using there wall & roof structures, though it can be very challenging for mid range routes, if you climb 6b/6c & above there is loads of choice.
Creation has recently had a major overhall, huge new boulder area and a big overhall of the exhisting walls, there is a wide variety of routes across all the grades and the quality of them has improved lots recently.
I've never had a problem with the atmosphere at either wall, Redpoint is good when is chilly as the area is smaller so therefor warmer, though this can be a negative when its really busy. Creation has lots more space and doesn't tend to feel so overcrowded.
I tend to climb at Creation, but do go to other local walls for a bit of variety, some people have favorites but give both a try, its a shame folk can be so nasty as we are all climbers who love our sport and indoor walls are our only access in the area to climb, Bear Rock - Coventry and Wolf Mountain - Wolverhampton also have good qualities too. Its great that we have a selection of indoor walls in the west mids and as climbers it would be great if we could support them all for our sport.
Great feedback, thank you very much indeed.
In reply to Tall Josh: personally i think Redpoint is the better wall. It is run and owned by experienced climbers. Creation might have a larger space but redpoint is continiously chaning their routes to make up for the smaller space. There gunna be expanding too which will allow a much larger space for bouldering.
More often than not I find the smaller walls more fun and accomodating than the huge industrial unit style centres. I find the staff tend to be more personable and the atmosphere is better.
In reply to Tall Josh:
I like and use both walls fairly regularly. Creation about twice a week / Redpoint probably twice a month. I think we should try and be positive about having a choice given the WM isn't endowed with tons of great natural venues. My tuppence:
Creation gets my vote; the new bouldering area, space and number of routes being the main plus points. Minus have been the toilets and route updates (understandable given the focus on the new area) - which they are addressing as of last week, new routes on the white rear wall are good.
Redpoint routes do tend to wander more and are generally interesting. The main minus point for me is that at times you feel packed in with other climbers and the coached sessions. The cake is good though.
OT - but any local knowledge/ recommendations re. fairly easy/quick access crags (or guides to) west of Brum?
dave
I like and use both walls fairly regularly. Creation about twice a week / Redpoint probably twice a month. I think we should try and be positive about having a choice given the WM isn't endowed with tons of great natural venues. My tuppence:
Creation gets my vote; the new bouldering area, space and number of routes being the main plus points. Minus have been the toilets and route updates (understandable given the focus on the new area) - which they are addressing as of last week, new routes on the white rear wall are good.
Redpoint routes do tend to wander more and are generally interesting. The main minus point for me is that at times you feel packed in with other climbers and the coached sessions. The cake is good though.
OT - but any local knowledge/ recommendations re. fairly easy/quick access crags (or guides to) west of Brum?
dave
In reply to dvidjwalks: I haven't lived in Birmingham for a few years, but on the drive from Kiddeminster to Budeley theres a huge rockface at the back of a farm. I've never had the bottle/time to go and ask if theres anyu possibility of climbing it. Other than that is some old crud at malvern
In reply to Mike_Gannon: Yeh wouldnt bother with Malvern, lovely for walking but not climbing. Thwe areas that arent falling down are covered in moss, not well looked after.
In reply to Tall Josh:
I'd vote for Redpoint for shedloads of reasons, friendly staff, good routes, clean, (good toilets), brightly lit, etc.
I won't put what I think of Creation as it appears to be the only wall in the UK which you cannot criticise on UKC at risk of having the thread deleted (my one and only problem with this site).
The only point I'd say about Redpoint is the grading. It's hard throughout, and ridiculously hard in places, and, in my view, getting harder.. The staff are well aware of my views as I whinge at them regularly.
For example, I know Bristol is soft grading, but after a recent visit there I'd say 6b+ at Bristol = 5+ at Redpoint.
It's a tad demotivating at times.
I'd vote for Redpoint for shedloads of reasons, friendly staff, good routes, clean, (good toilets), brightly lit, etc.
I won't put what I think of Creation as it appears to be the only wall in the UK which you cannot criticise on UKC at risk of having the thread deleted (my one and only problem with this site).
The only point I'd say about Redpoint is the grading. It's hard throughout, and ridiculously hard in places, and, in my view, getting harder.. The staff are well aware of my views as I whinge at them regularly.
For example, I know Bristol is soft grading, but after a recent visit there I'd say 6b+ at Bristol = 5+ at Redpoint.
It's a tad demotivating at times.
In reply to Tall Josh: creation at the moment is really good. they seem to have picked the ball up. resetting all the routes at the moment and most are excellent. theres a blue 6c on the white main lead wall which is one of the best indoor climbs i've ever done! no joke. also the new huge bouldering area is open
In reply to Tall Josh:
Sorry for gatecrashing but I'm looking for a partner to climb with at Creation. I'm getting too much bouldering in and need to work some routes. Climbing at 6b/6c wanting to break in to 7a soon, happy to climb with any standard, purely social. Available Mon - Thurs evenings, ping me an email if you are interested. I will be back online after the weekend.
For my sixpence worth, I climb at both Creation and Redpoint. Redpoint does seem to have the more interesting routes but I prefer the quantity and height at Creation, it is also much better for the 'lonely' climber now that the new bouldering area is open. I find the staff helpful at both walls, any requests or problems have been actioned fairly quickly.
Creation has a loyalty scheme which is great value for money, unfortunately redpoint does not.
Sorry for gatecrashing but I'm looking for a partner to climb with at Creation. I'm getting too much bouldering in and need to work some routes. Climbing at 6b/6c wanting to break in to 7a soon, happy to climb with any standard, purely social. Available Mon - Thurs evenings, ping me an email if you are interested. I will be back online after the weekend.
For my sixpence worth, I climb at both Creation and Redpoint. Redpoint does seem to have the more interesting routes but I prefer the quantity and height at Creation, it is also much better for the 'lonely' climber now that the new bouldering area is open. I find the staff helpful at both walls, any requests or problems have been actioned fairly quickly.
Creation has a loyalty scheme which is great value for money, unfortunately redpoint does not.
In reply to John_Hat:
Our policy is consistent and is applied to all climbing walls and other businesses and organisations. Where a thread develops into an excessive criticism, and where that criticism includes personalities and policy, then we will usually remove a thread and alert the business concerned. This is especially the case when there is some doubt about the origin of some of the antagonists in the debate.
In all cases, I think people would be better advised to deal with their complaints about any particular wall directly with the wall concerned and not put them on a public forum. By all means discuss aspects like size of the wall, quality of the bouldering, and even preferred route setting, but when it descends into unsubstantiated claims about policy and personalities then UKC is not the place for it.
Alan
> I won't put what I think of Creation as it appears to be the only wall in the UK which you cannot criticise on UKC at risk of having the thread deleted (my one and only problem with this site).
Our policy is consistent and is applied to all climbing walls and other businesses and organisations. Where a thread develops into an excessive criticism, and where that criticism includes personalities and policy, then we will usually remove a thread and alert the business concerned. This is especially the case when there is some doubt about the origin of some of the antagonists in the debate.
In all cases, I think people would be better advised to deal with their complaints about any particular wall directly with the wall concerned and not put them on a public forum. By all means discuss aspects like size of the wall, quality of the bouldering, and even preferred route setting, but when it descends into unsubstantiated claims about policy and personalities then UKC is not the place for it.
Alan
In reply to dvidjwalks:
"I think we should try and be positive about having a choice given the WM isn't endowed with tons of great natural venues".
I agree, I use Creation and Redpoint regularly, and Bear Rock occasionally. I could list the pros and cons of each wall, but I can't see the point, as it would represent my opinion, and another person may want something different.
As I said above, the best thing is to try both the Birmingham walls for a session or two, they are only a few miles apart, and decide from there.
"I think we should try and be positive about having a choice given the WM isn't endowed with tons of great natural venues".
I agree, I use Creation and Redpoint regularly, and Bear Rock occasionally. I could list the pros and cons of each wall, but I can't see the point, as it would represent my opinion, and another person may want something different.
As I said above, the best thing is to try both the Birmingham walls for a session or two, they are only a few miles apart, and decide from there.
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
"unsubstantiated claims about policy and personalities then UKC is not the place for it."
Which sounds fair except that in the particular case in point there were no "unsubstantiated claims about policy and personalities". In fact very far from it. Neither was there "some doubt about the origin of some of the antagonists in the debate."
Ok, perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned this on a thread, and because I did you made a public reply. That's fine, but suggest we leave it here?
"unsubstantiated claims about policy and personalities then UKC is not the place for it."
Which sounds fair except that in the particular case in point there were no "unsubstantiated claims about policy and personalities". In fact very far from it. Neither was there "some doubt about the origin of some of the antagonists in the debate."
Ok, perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned this on a thread, and because I did you made a public reply. That's fine, but suggest we leave it here?
In reply to John_Hat:
There is some very serious doubt about the origin of some of the people involved on the thread which on its own is very good reason to remove a thread.
Alan
> Neither was there "some doubt about the origin of some of the antagonists in the debate."
There is some very serious doubt about the origin of some of the people involved on the thread which on its own is very good reason to remove a thread.
Alan
In reply to Tall Josh: Can't comment on Creation having never been there, but I've just started out at Redpoint, and a friendlier, more helpful bunch of people you couldnt hope to find. Good cakes, too.
In reply to Tall Josh: We should all just celebrate the fact that we have 2 good venues to climb at within our area. Both of these venues work really really hard to not only run businesses but to give us climbers the best they can with what they have. I know that no climber is ever going to open a climbing wall to become a millionare, the only reason is the love of the sport and life style. We should respect all the people who choose to give the 110% into these ventures so as we can all climb indoors.
They both have differing challenges and attributes there just different.
They both have differing challenges and attributes there just different.
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
On that basis I think we may be talking about different threads. Mine was a complaint about the installation of a fingerprint scanner (now long since removed). No names or individuals were involved.
> (In reply to John_Hat)
> [...]
>
> There is some very serious doubt about the origin of some of the people involved on the thread which on its own is very good reason to remove a thread.
>
> Alan
> [...]
>
> There is some very serious doubt about the origin of some of the people involved on the thread which on its own is very good reason to remove a thread.
>
> Alan
On that basis I think we may be talking about different threads. Mine was a complaint about the installation of a fingerprint scanner (now long since removed). No names or individuals were involved.
In reply to Mike_Gannon:
I had a close up look at that a while ago, looks ok. think it would be a top rope tho, farm was empty when i was there, climb till someone tells you otherwise id say
> (In reply to dvidjwalks) I haven't lived in Birmingham for a few years, but on the drive from Kiddeminster to Budeley theres a huge rockface at the back of a farm. I've never had the bottle/time to go and ask if theres anyu possibility of climbing it. Other than that is some old crud at malvern
I had a close up look at that a while ago, looks ok. think it would be a top rope tho, farm was empty when i was there, climb till someone tells you otherwise id say
In reply to Mike_Gannon:
im guessing budeley means Bewdley lol if so its called blackstone rock, You have to get permission to climb it or abseil. I believe you have to pay, sounds lame but it use to be popular for the scouts to abseil off it as the district camp site is down the road. But not really worth it, theres a guidebook on the net somewhere for it, if your that interested.
> (In reply to dvidjwalks) I haven't lived in Birmingham for a few years, but on the drive from Kiddeminster to Budeley theres a huge rockface at the back of a farm. I've never had the bottle/time to go and ask if theres anyu possibility of climbing it. Other than that is some old crud at malvern
im guessing budeley means Bewdley lol if so its called blackstone rock, You have to get permission to climb it or abseil. I believe you have to pay, sounds lame but it use to be popular for the scouts to abseil off it as the district camp site is down the road. But not really worth it, theres a guidebook on the net somewhere for it, if your that interested.
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