UKC

Having complained about the cave upstairs at Awesome Walls Stoke after the routes were re-set and the grades having become significantly harder Dave Douglas took a pro-active response and started a thread himself but my original email was published with my real name on and when Dave noticed he requested that the thread be pulled by the moderators, which happened after a mixture of a dozen or so responses both for an against.

The original letter and response from Dave Douglas went like this (Dave's comments in bold):

"Hi The Bloke Who Complained

Thanks for your complaint, please see my views below. Please introduce
yourself next time you’re in so I can personally explain how
passionate we are about getting it right!

Please accept this exceptionally disappointed complaint about the
difficulty of the routes set in the cave. I shall not be pulling any
punches...

Noted.

The new difficulty of the routes as they have been reset is shocking!
I climb trad at E1 - E3 5c - 6a and I could only hang off the one
orange route at the back of the cave when I attended for a session
yesterday afternoon. One of the relative novices who attended with me
was similarly limited, one could only do half of it and the total
novice who was with us could barely get established on it. At 6b+ (?)
and the cheapest route up there this is very exclusive to masses of
people who are not rock god super heroes.

This new set are a bit harder but we shall be filling the gaps in with
easier problems soon. ‘Cheapest routes’- paying international route
setters and using new holds isn’t cheap in any sense of the word.

The cave is a prominent attraction and is actually one of the selling
points for inviting new people along to have a go. If the intention is
to preclude novices from loitering and getting in the way of serious
climbers, then that is disappointing as elitism is something that we
should all aim to eradicate. If there is a safety issue involving
lower grade climbers or the number of people utilising the cave at any
one time then there should be advice notes up and/or somebody staffing
the area (or a cctv facility and tannoy system for when there is a
single member of staff on duty). To set the routes at the current
difficulty is exceptionally poor form and I will have no qualms about
starting threads on relevant forums vociferously complaining about the
situation if, after a reasonable period to allow time for change, I
attend again and there is no improvement. Please do not take this in
the tone of a threat as my intention is only to express my strong
disappointment at the situation.

The cave is for everyone. Easier problems will be set soon. No need to
start a thread as I’ve done it for you.

Further to this, though far less importantly, I feel that the grade
system changes in the cave is obfuscating. Most people when climbing
indoors, in my experience, would prefer just to know whether they
should have a go at a problem and do not need to be concerned about
which grading system thy use. I appreciate that all grading systems
are valid in their own right, but I do not think that there is really
any need for the use of different systems in a single venue. Where
different systems are in use, I think that it should be clearly
explained as to which system is actually being referred to in each
grade as it is presented. After reading the explanation of the grade
systems on the second page of the cave route guide, I couldn't really
tell what system was in use for each of the routes. Is it traversing
or font? Really I'd prefer not to have to boggle my mind to work it
out.

Thanks for your comments/views on grades but I’ll wait for a bit more
feedback off other customers before changing anything.

Best regards

The bloke who complained"


Anyway..... Having been to Awesome Walls Stoke this evening I feel it is appropriate to note publicly that whether due to my complaint or not, Awesome Walls have amended the set routes in the cave area upstairs and there are now a good number of routes more amenable to 'non-rock god super heroes' such as myself. I, personally, am very pleased with the changes that have been made and I feel that my complaint (if it was a spur in the situation) has been fully satisfied. The quantity and calibre of the lower grade routes that have since been installed is roughly the same as the original array from when the wall first opened.

Thanks Dave Douglas, my faith is fully restored.
----------------------------------
Please note that my combative tone in the original email has already been apologised for to Dave in private correspondence.

In reply to The bloke who complained:
no-one cares about your poncy complaint, seems like you couldn't do any routes and cried like a baby...we don't want to hear it.

In reply to The bloke who complained:

One thing that I really like at Stoke is that the wall has got different areas with different levels of difficulty. It means that I can flounder away without feeling as though I am getting in anyone's way. Kids playing, people who have never climbed before, bumblies, average joes and rock gods all can climb to their hearts content without annoying or intimidating one another. I'm a rubbish climber and yet I never do everything that I possibly could do in one visit - there is always more left...

I can't do anything in the cave - and yet each week I have another go while watching those who can do the routes in awe.

I don't really feel qualified to comment, but it would seem more simple to use just bouldering grades for the routes so that it is possible to compare them with one another and with other routes at the wall.

Other than that, I would like to say a very, very heartfelt thank-you to Dave for actually getting off his bum and putting in the hard work and effort needed to give Stoke a much needed and rather good wall - with helpful and friendly staff who are always willing to have their ears bent with comments about what is available.

In reply to The bloke who complained:
Glad to hear of a satisfactory outcome. Good work by all!

In reply to The bloke who complained: what grade problems would you suggest through a near horizontal 30 foot roof?I have watched novices on some of the big problems and making good ground on them.if you can climb english 6a there are lots of problems for you .the white problem on the front of the arch is no more than eng 6a.
As for getting confussed about the grading! Its the best and logical way.
As for needing to be a rock god super hero that's rubbish.

In reply to The bloke who complained:


Thank you. A timely reminder for us all to have some sympathy for the poor sods amongst us who have to make a living by satisfying the needs of the great unwashed.

In reply to Bulley:

What an idiot comment....

While I agree with some things that have been said, ultimately it does appear that a complaint was made because you were not good enough to do the problems in the roof. It is a roof and therefore it is not going to be easy, that is the nature of the angles you will be climbing on. Surely one of the greatest things about climbing is the challenge. Work on your weaknesses and get better.

In reply to The bloke who complained: Seems to be me that your tone was unnecessarily rude and threat of threads was completely unneccessary aswel as the awesome walls staff are incredibly approachable and all could have been resolved had you simply spoken to them who would have told you they were putting new easier routes up between the harder problems anyway. However, its a mark of how polite and interested in their members the awesome walls crew are that they responded so quickly and well to your querey =) Im not bouldering at a very hard grade and could just about get up the oranges on the slabs before the routes were changed and a couple in the cave. I loved that so many new routes were put up in the cave that went all the way across and respect the decision to move to sport grades due to the longer routes. If you'd asked staff they would have told you a reasonable conversion (as i did) and it's not that boggling I promise. I couldn't really get off the ground on the problems, but tbh I loved that about it as it means any progress i make will be immediately apparent and I get to enjoy working the routes for longer. So anyway, just a big thanks to awesome walls from me, love the new routes, love the longer routes, love the employees, love the shop, looking forward to coming again soon!

In reply to The bloke who complained:
Whilst I dont agree with your complaint, it is good to hear that Awesome have listened and acted on what customers want.

Good job Awesome walls staff.

In reply to Bulley:

The complaint was passed and this thread was raised to alleviate any bother that the original thread created for the wall. If a complaint is made in public in my name (even though it was actually Dave Douglas who raised the last thread, besides my 'threat' to) then I feel that it is appropriate to state in public that the complaint has been satisfied. You evidently missed the original thread.

In reply to mark s:

The phrase rock god super hero was only used as an obvious description of people who climb hard. I'd probably describe you as having attained such a level.

The grading question apparently demonstrated my ignorance of such grade systems. I am now more aware.

In reply to Laura-lou:


Agree. I apologised to Dave in private email communication. He said that he understood and there is no bad taste left. I only posted the original email so that people who missed the original thread, because of it's removal by the moderators, would have context for this one.

In reply to winhill:


Awesome Walls are in private business. They request comments and feedback. That was what they got. The tone was apologised for before it was noted as being unpleasant on the original thread. They have dealt with the complaint well. So what is your problem?... oh yeah I remember... you're winhill!

In reply to The bloke who complained:

It's Ok, I worked out who you are now and realise that in fact the complaint represents a very mild dose of your usual pomp and verbiage.

easy now, tiger.